Seeking8Rights
New Member
Can someone tell me who makes Phyto?
Just had an epiphany: lye vs. no lye ,protein vs. ceramides
- Thread starter delp
- Start date
lovenharmony
ET / OT Bonafide Member
Thanks for sharing this info Delp!! I will definitely read up more on that topic. I'm learning so much for all of you 
I love LHCF!!
I love LHCF!!
Soliel185
New Member
This definitely makes sense...I was looking at a few products that supposedly have ceramides, but I still can't pin point a consistant ingredient that shows they're in there. I'd like to know what to look for to make sure I'm getting the right product, and also to compare products based on how far up or down ceramides are in the ingredients list. Anyone had any luck with this?
Bint Yusef
New Member
This also explains why my hair was 
when I used no-lye relaxers.
when I used no-lye relaxers.
Artemis
New Member
I wonder if L'Oreal really does have some sort of patent on a certain type of ceramide technology...When I google "ceramide hair" the only products that come up are from brands that are under the L'Oreal name...Biolage/Matrix, SoftSheen Carson, Mizani, etc.
ETA: Is Nexxus under L'Oreal? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. That's the only brand exception.
ETA: Is Nexxus under L'Oreal? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. That's the only brand exception.
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Mook's hair
New Member
Yes. I have to agree this is a top rated thread. I've been in here reading and going to links for about 2 hours now. I just picked up some great info in here.
I use a no lye and my hair is super dry. It's thick, it's fairly healthy and it looks good and gets soft after I finish adding creams & leave-ins but it is dry.
I've been thinking about changing to a conditioning lye relaxeer for a while now. I'm experiencing a lot of indecisiveness. Don't know whether I want to stay no-lye, switch to lye or just quit relaxers all together and transition.
But I have experienced the positive effects of Ceramide products (biolage & Mizani). I just never paid attention to the ceramides being the key.
I use a no lye and my hair is super dry. It's thick, it's fairly healthy and it looks good and gets soft after I finish adding creams & leave-ins but it is dry.
I've been thinking about changing to a conditioning lye relaxeer for a while now. I'm experiencing a lot of indecisiveness. Don't know whether I want to stay no-lye, switch to lye or just quit relaxers all together and transition.
But I have experienced the positive effects of Ceramide products (biolage & Mizani). I just never paid attention to the ceramides being the key.
delp
Well-Known Member
Keclee23 said:
I am not an expert but stick with what works. Maybe just keep this info in mind. Change up your regime.
http://www.growafrohairlong.com/perms.html
LYE RELAXER performs much better than NO LYE Relaxers. Some relaxers straighten faster than other relaxers. Design Essentials relax the hair in less time than Motion
Relaxers: Straightens, soften and make coarse or unmanageable hair more manageable.
Texturizers: make hair more manageable but in a milder form. It gives the hair a strong look and feel of the hairs' original texture.
A Perm: Is to tame the hair permanently by getting the effects of straight hair, waves, body, or curls.
* If you are not familiar with applying relaxers, perms, or chemicals, have a professional do all your relaxers and perms. Have this done after your hair is in good condition
When choosing a relaxer, apply ones that encourage moisture. Keep your hair deep conditioned
No-Lye Relaxers
These are formulated with Guanidine hydroxide to straighten the hair. They have a pH of 9-9.5. Which is higher than your hair pH is supposed to be. Your hair should have a pH of 4.5-5.5. Another chemical base name for no-lye relaxers is thioglycolate-based formulations. Many believe that no-lye relaxers are less harsh on the hair, but they seem to be more drying to the hair than lye relaxers. If you have a no-lye relaxer that seems dry, you can still get your relaxer to the proper pH level where it's healthy. On a regular basis, deep conditioning your hair once every week or once every two weeks. Eat the most nutritious foods, add vitamins to your diet, and handle your hair differently. If for some reason your no-lye relaxer is still shedding or feels like straw, no matter what you do, there is no need to have a no-lye relaxer.
Other alternatives: Grow your hair out to have the old relaxer clipped out. Use a Lye relaxer instead, wear a natural or hot press your hair.
Keep products such as Abba Moisture Scentsations in mind, Creme of Nature Shampoo, infusium23, Sebastian Clarifying Shampoo, Paul Mitchell's Clarifying Shampoo, and Le Kair Cholesterol Plus.
If your No-Lye relaxer were not working for you, it would not be a good thing to put in braid extensions to grow your hair with a no-lye relaxer. I have heard that the PHYTO NO-LYE RELAXER is a good one. phyto.com It has natural ingredients, yet keeps the hair moist.
Lye Relaxers/Perms
These are formulated with Sodium hydroxide. They are also referred to as 'alkali relaxers'. The pH levels are higher than no-lye relaxers. The pH is of 12-14, which is high. With both lye and no-lye relaxers, the hair must stay deep conditioned to get the hair back to a normal ph level. When you apply the relaxers, you cannot apply it to the old growth, no matter how strong your hair is, it will break down your hair excessively and your hair will began to break. You must also use the proper steps when applying or your hair will be damaged. I recommend lye relaxers be done by a professional.
delp
Well-Known Member
Summa Bliss said:
I know exactly what you mean. This is the most interesting thread I've come accross in a long time. It's highlighted the importance of science when it comes to hair care. I'm gonna do some research into this.
My hair would love a treatment which works as a protein but moisturises like a moisturising treatment, and it seems that Cermaides is the key to this.
But there must be a particular ingredient(s) which denotes whether Ceramides are present in the product. I really wanna know now becuase it would really help me when picking out whicch poos and cons to buy.
Side note example---- in the description on the back of some 'daily' moisturisers, they don't mention ANYTHING about being a protein treatment, but then when you look into the ingredients, and you see 'Keratin' you're like- I never knew what keratin was before LHCF. and I probably wouldn't have known what using it everyday could do to the hair without proper moisture balance if it wasn't for LHCF (Thank God for LCHF...!).
Ceramide 3 (that is what is on the back of my fiberguard conditioner)
Artemis
New Member
Ceramide 3 is also in the Keraphixdelp said:
I did some digging and found this:
http://www.lanza.com/articles/19,1.html
L'ANZA Treats Trauma
Two Major Stylist Complaints Solved with Trauma Treatment
Hairstylists complained and L'ANZA listened. The two major hair traumas hairstylists are challenged with are 1) damaged, overprocessed hair and 2) uneven color deposition and attachment as a direct result of damaged hair.?
With such traumatized hair, stylists are unsure whether to proceed with a chemical salon service or to send the client home.? And if they chose the former route, an uneven color service results—leaving the client unsatisfied and the colorist very frustrated.??
L’ANZA? Healing HairCare introduces Color Preserving Trauma TreatmentTM, a leave-in prescription that heals traumatized hair and improves color attachment.? Its revolutionary formula heals over-processed hair—from within—and balances porosity, resulting in remarkably improved color attachment and uniform color deposition.
How Trauma Treatment Works:
An ultra-healing blend of two powerful ingredients, Ceramide-2 and L’ANZA’s famous Keratin Bond System 2 TM (KB2TM), provides a healed hair structure and improved color attachment.?
Trauma Treatment infuses hair with Ceramide-2.? Ceramides are important oil-soluble compounds (or lipids) within hair, responsible for maintaining proper moisture and elasticity.? Two types of Ceramides are found in hair: less abundant Ceramide-1 (comprising 12%), more abundant Ceramide-2 (comprising 88%).? When hair is overprocessed, these essential Ceramides are depleted, causing hair to become dry, brittle and frail.? Traumatized hair is unable to accept and hold color during processing.? L’ANZA’s Trauma Treatment replenishes Ceramide-2 back into the hair to restore functional health and enhance color uptake.?
Treatment infuses hair with a heightened dose of KB2.? This potent dose of Keratin Protein penetrates deep inside the cortex to strengthen the Cystine linkage.? The unique combination of lipid-rich Ceramide-2 and protein-abundant KB2?provides an ideal balance of moisture and protein.? Hair is healed and the structure becomes intact, allowing the creation of color attachment sites within the cortex.? The revolutionary blend of Ceramide-2 and KB2 balances porosity, allows uniform pigment deposition and improves color attachment and longevity.
Edited to shrink and clean up. Full article at the linked site.
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Serenity_Peace
Genius never dies!
OnAHairQuest said:
Aveda, baby!!! This is the first time that my hair doesn't look dry and dull!
Bint Yusef
New Member
I am about to jump on that bandwagon too, as soon as I use up all this other stuff I have and I take my soon to be installed twists out.Serenity_Peace said:Aveda, baby!!! This is the first time that my hair doesn't look dry and dull!
Throws up DR sign!
B_Phlyy
Pineapple Eating Unicorn
I have had Shamboosie's book for 3 years and I never thought to make that connection. I used to use Motions and Silk Elements lye relaxer and now that I think about it, my hair always felt better when I used Keraphix over the Humectress.
Good work and great thread Delp.
Good work and great thread Delp.
....But that Mizani Thermasmooth line is looking pretty good to me.
*Michelle*
Well-Known Member
Yep, ceramides are the bomb...they are the reason I mainly use Mizani and Redken.
When I t-up, after I rinse but before I neutralize I use UV Rescue Treat for 10mins...AMAZING results.
Add some keratin oil to the relaxer and be prepared to be DOUBLE AMAZED!!
My hair is not long compared to the diva standards here, but I will say when it comes to healthy...its right up there with the BIG DOGS!!
Okay, I justs used my one bragging pass...
When I t-up, after I rinse but before I neutralize I use UV Rescue Treat for 10mins...AMAZING results.
Add some keratin oil to the relaxer and be prepared to be DOUBLE AMAZED!!
My hair is not long compared to the diva standards here, but I will say when it comes to healthy...its right up there with the BIG DOGS!!
Okay, I justs used my one bragging pass...
LovelyLionessa
Active Member
Great thread. I'm glad I bought a tube of Keraphix and a tub of Silicon Mix. They both contain ceramides. Knowledge is power!
mspm
Active Member
This thread has had me digging on the Net for hours! I used a lye relaxer (since I was 10) with no dryness problem but when a no-good stylist started putting affirm no-lye in my hair, it started to feel like straw and I eventually went bald! Now I know that it was the calcium hydroxide that dried my hair to a crisp. Since I've been using Phyto, my hair has thrived. The key is that Phyto does not contain drying calcium hydroxide, yet the guanidine carbonate (no lye) is gentler on my scalp (I have dermatitis) and my hair than the sodium hydroxide (lye). Phyto is a keeper IMO! HTH someone with similar issues.
ravenmerlita
New Member
Delp -- great information!
My hair is naturally dry, brittle and fine. I have been told I cannot have color or a relaxer because my hair would disintegrate. I've been using the Kerastase vita-ciment, L'anza protecshine and the Affirm Fiberguard Lye Relaxer with the Sustenance Conditioner before neutralizing. My hair is stronger than it's ever been.
In fact, once I started using the vita-ciment and the L'anza, I went from having to get trims every 8-10 weeks because of splits, to not having any split ends and stretching to 3 months before trimming.
I do believe it is the ceramides.
Also, the best clarifying shampoo I found so far for me is the Nexxus Aloe Rid. Just looked it up and it contains ceramides too.
I don't understand all the science, but ceramides are working for me.
My hair is naturally dry, brittle and fine. I have been told I cannot have color or a relaxer because my hair would disintegrate. I've been using the Kerastase vita-ciment, L'anza protecshine and the Affirm Fiberguard Lye Relaxer with the Sustenance Conditioner before neutralizing. My hair is stronger than it's ever been.
In fact, once I started using the vita-ciment and the L'anza, I went from having to get trims every 8-10 weeks because of splits, to not having any split ends and stretching to 3 months before trimming.
I do believe it is the ceramides.
Also, the best clarifying shampoo I found so far for me is the Nexxus Aloe Rid. Just looked it up and it contains ceramides too.
I don't understand all the science, but ceramides are working for me.
newflowers
New Member
This is fabulous information. In my new arsenal of hair products, I have everything BUT ceramides. I've heard of them, but had no clue to the importance they play is caring for relaxed hair.
I have a few areas of confusion that I am hoping someone will be able to clear up. The first is the type of ceramide - the first articles calls is CR18; most of the products say Ceramide 3, except for the Lan'za which has Ceramide 2. The Lan'za articles further says that hair is "12% ceramide 1 and 88% ceramide 2." What then is ceramide 3 - is it a combination of both one and two? If one is to choose a product, which one? I have access to the professional products, but would not know which one to buy as the information is - well not conflicting, but certainly confusing.
The next question is where should the ceramide be in the ingredient list - presumably near the top?
If no-lye relaxer leaves a calcium reside on the hair, can it not be removed with a chelating or detoxifying shampoo? For the ceramide technology to work, wouldn't the calcuim deposit have to be removed for the product to work effectively if at all? If that is indeed the case, what product to remove the buildup? It seems to me that a clarifying shampoo would not work; it would have to be something stronger?
And finally, at what point in the hair care (and especially relaxer) process would one use the ceramide product? Is it relax, rinse, neutralize, detox/chelate, ceramide, reconstruct, condition?Some other order?
I hope someone can help clear up some of my confusion. This has been a great thread, and I've learned so much from it, but I still need some clarification.
I have a few areas of confusion that I am hoping someone will be able to clear up. The first is the type of ceramide - the first articles calls is CR18; most of the products say Ceramide 3, except for the Lan'za which has Ceramide 2. The Lan'za articles further says that hair is "12% ceramide 1 and 88% ceramide 2." What then is ceramide 3 - is it a combination of both one and two? If one is to choose a product, which one? I have access to the professional products, but would not know which one to buy as the information is - well not conflicting, but certainly confusing.
The next question is where should the ceramide be in the ingredient list - presumably near the top?
If no-lye relaxer leaves a calcium reside on the hair, can it not be removed with a chelating or detoxifying shampoo? For the ceramide technology to work, wouldn't the calcuim deposit have to be removed for the product to work effectively if at all? If that is indeed the case, what product to remove the buildup? It seems to me that a clarifying shampoo would not work; it would have to be something stronger?
And finally, at what point in the hair care (and especially relaxer) process would one use the ceramide product? Is it relax, rinse, neutralize, detox/chelate, ceramide, reconstruct, condition?Some other order?
I hope someone can help clear up some of my confusion. This has been a great thread, and I've learned so much from it, but I still need some clarification.
delp
Well-Known Member
newflowers,
Most of your questions I can't answer. I wish I knew. I just put 2 and 2 together yesterday. I am still researching myself. But according to the Affirm fiberguard procedure they use it as an after relaxer/before neutralization step. Also, on the back of the bottle they recommend it for weekly treatments. For no lye, which need the proper moisture/protein balance, I guess this is critical. For lye, maybe, this is need only once every two weeks or so.Lye need a balance of light and hard protein. I think. I believe someone posted a thread on protein usage.
You have asked some great questions: Any CHEMIST on the board. Hair Guru? I wish I knew the answer. Please tell us the answer if you know or can deduce a reasonable answer.
Most of your questions I can't answer. I wish I knew. I just put 2 and 2 together yesterday. I am still researching myself. But according to the Affirm fiberguard procedure they use it as an after relaxer/before neutralization step. Also, on the back of the bottle they recommend it for weekly treatments. For no lye, which need the proper moisture/protein balance, I guess this is critical. For lye, maybe, this is need only once every two weeks or so.Lye need a balance of light and hard protein. I think. I believe someone posted a thread on protein usage.
You have asked some great questions: Any CHEMIST on the board. Hair Guru? I wish I knew the answer. Please tell us the answer if you know or can deduce a reasonable answer.
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delp said:
Thanks a lot Delp. This truly was a revelation! This is a TOP thread. I gave it 5 Stars.
I am really excited now :trampolin . When I take my braids out in a few weeks I am DEFINITELY going to use a conditioner and or leave in which contains Ceramides. I'm thinking about Matrix Biolage or Nexxus Humectress as my texlax was a No-Lye:scratchch
PacificPurinsesu
New Member
This is awesome info! Wow, it totally makes sense! I am going to do a self challenge using products with Ceramides, and see if this helps with my split end problems! I use a no lye relaxer and want healthy hair!
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SvelteVelvet
Well-Known Member
Priestess said:
Oh yes!! I made a restock order yesterday and this thread made me order the 32 oz! Lol..The shampoo also contains the ceramides. I looked through my products at home too and I my Nexxus Botanoil shampoo has a nice little paragraph dedicated to ceramides on the back. And I believed this treatment shampoo as well as the Emergencee treatment did me well after my overlapping experience my last touch-up. This info makes so much sense and I feel a lot more confident about what I need when I'm buying and why.
schipperchow1
New Member
Delp, et al: This is great info! Thank you!
I never made the ceramide connection. I wondered what it was & what it did. But didn't give it much thought. Not only does Nexxus & silicon mix have it, but 10en1 super cond has it listed as an ingredient as well. Are ceramides in a lot of dominican conditioners?
I never made the ceramide connection. I wondered what it was & what it did. But didn't give it much thought. Not only does Nexxus & silicon mix have it, but 10en1 super cond has it listed as an ingredient as well. Are ceramides in a lot of dominican conditioners?
Artemis
New Member
I hope I could give some sort of insight on this...
newflowers said:This is fabulous information. In my new arsenal of hair products, I have everything BUT ceramides. I've heard of them, but had no clue to the importance they play is caring for relaxed hair.
I have a few areas of confusion that I am hoping someone will be able to clear up. The first is the type of ceramide - the first articles calls is CR18; most of the products say Ceramide 3, except for the Lan'za which has Ceramide 2. The Lan'za articles further says that hair is "12% ceramide 1 and 88% ceramide 2." What then is ceramide 3 - is it a combination of both one and two? If one is to choose a product, which one? I have access to the professional products, but would not know which one to buy as the information is - well not conflicting, but certainly confusing.
I don't recall the date on the article, but I think Ceramide 3 is probably more advanced than 2 (All, if not most Nexxus products contain c-3), so while I can't answer the percentage question, I'd say any ceramide is better than no ceramide.
The next question is where should the ceramide be in the ingredient list - presumably near the top?
Looking at my products, in the Nexxus Heat Protexx, it was somewhere in the middle. I don't think it needs to necessarily be on the top of the list to be effective, esp. if you are using more that one ceramide-containing product. Too much of anything is rarely a good thing.
If no-lye relaxer leaves a calcium reside on the hair, can it not be removed with a chelating or detoxifying shampoo? For the ceramide technology to work, wouldn't the calcuim deposit have to be removed for the product to work effectively if at all? If that is indeed the case, what product to remove the buildup? It seems to me that a clarifying shampoo would not work; it would have to be something stronger?
I don't have a chemistry degree by any means, but I am sure that if by using a corrective lye relaxer can counteract the damage caused by a no-lye relaxer, then ceramides can somehow affect the calcium buildup...Again, I am speculating, but being that ceramides can help in the cuticle binding, changes in the bonds of those compounds have to occur. And with repeated use, esp... Neutralizing shampoos have the correct pH to probably help with the deposits, so maybe you could try that.
And finally, at what point in the hair care (and especially relaxer) process would one use the ceramide product? Is it relax, rinse, neutralize, detox/chelate, ceramide, reconstruct, condition?Some other order?
If it were me, I would use a product after rinsing the relaxer and before neutralizing, and then again during deep conditioning (similar to Pixel Lady's regimen). And then perhaps during styling or post-styling (daily moisturizer). Again, overkill is not a good look
I hope someone can help clear up some of my confusion. This has been a great thread, and I've learned so much from it, but I still need some clarification.
