Are We Headed to a Peace Treaty Between Israel and Palestine?

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


These verses are another reason why I don't believe that people who die in Christ go straight to heaven either, but rather they "sleep" (in the grave) until the Second Coming. Then those people rise first and those who are alive join them in air.

I'm in territory I don't comprehend right now but I want to ask you what you think about communion of the saints...that the souls are in communication with those on earth. I'm not talking about divining and dabbling in the occult or anything like that...but that they are here in another realm. "Sleep" ..or asleep in christ...I wonder what that means. Maybe there are those here who can explain purgatory and the final judgement? Does it refer only to the body...but the soul is in heaven?

 

[divya]

I'm in territory I don't comprehend right now but I want to ask you what you think about communion of the saints...that the souls are in communication with those on earth. I'm not talking about divining and dabbling in the occult or anything like that...but that they are here in another realm. "Sleep" ..or asleep in christ...I wonder what that means. Maybe there are those here who can explain purgatory and the final judgement? Does it refer only to the body...but the soul is in heaven?

My belief is that each living person is a living soul, and once the person dies, one ceases to be a soul. If the person dies in Christ, the person will remain in the ground until the Second Coming.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I do not believe in any inner soul existing inside of an individual. You are a soul, and I am a soul. When we die, we return to the dust of the ground ,whether we die in Christ or not. I do not believe that many people are in heaven and communicating with people here.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

So death is an unconscious state, or as the verses in Thessalonians term it, "a sleep" until Christ returns. When Lazarus died, no inner soul went to heaven. The Scriptures state that he remained in the ground until Jesus called him.

The issue with believing in a soul that goes to heaven or hell and never dies is that then the soul is actually granted immortality. And if the soul goes to heaven, who would Jesus be returning for? If people’s souls are burning in hell endlessly, then they have also been granted immortality or rather eternal life. That cannot be so because the Bible tells us that the gift of God is eternal life.

Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If we were born with immortal souls then the eternal life that Jesus gives to us would not be necessary. In order to understand the state of the dead, hell, and the Second Coming, it requires study of the meaning of the different meanings of the word “forever” in Greek along with the verses in the Bible. After that, it is clear that the dead remain in the ground until the Second Coming. Then a sequence of events take place, and the wicked will burn until completely gone – not endlessly. Those who believe in Christ will receive eternal life.

Rev. 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”

This is an entirely different study though but let me know if you would like to know more…


(So I don't believe in purgatory either)

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

This is an entirely different study though but let me know if you would like to know more…


(So I don't believe in purgatory either)

So you believe that the soul in permanently imbedded within the shell, the body? It doesn't return to G-d when the shell dies? I hadn't thought of it that way. I believe that the life force given from G-d returns once the physical dies. And I think that the resurrection of the dead will give a new body, bound to that same soul. Yours is an interesting and diff. perspective.

 

[divya]

So you believe that the soul in permanently imbedded within the shell, the body? It doesn't return to G-d when the shell dies? I hadn't thought of it that way. I believe that the life force given from G-d returns once the physical dies. And I think that the resurrection of the dead will give a new body, bound to that same soul. Yours is an interesting and diff. perspective.

Sort of. Let me explain further. I believe that the living body is a soul, in accordance with the verse in Genesis. We are living, breathing beings. When we die, our breath of life certainly does return to God. In that way, the breath of life can be called the soul. However, I do not believe that the soul is an independent entity. Meaning that it is not an independent being that looks down on anyone because the Scriptures state that the dead know nothing. At Jesus' coming, we will once again arise from the dead as living souls because the Life Giver will give the breath of life back to us.

There's a verse in Matthew where the Scriptures state:

Matt. 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Greek translation for the term soul in this verse is breath.

ETA: Here is a site that explains the Biblical meaning of soul, examining the term soul or nephesh in Hebrew and the term soul or psuchi in Greek. This best explains my beliefs on the issue... http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/qod/q40.htm

 

[Ms.Honey]

Divya, scripture says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The soul/spirit does not only refer to the spirit but also to the mind and body (person) in certain cases in the bible.

Before Jesus died on the cross people did not go straight to heaven but to Hell also known as Paradise(the upper chamber of hell for those in His will), the Lower chambers of hell (Hades, a place of burning for those outside of His will), Abraham's Bossom, Captivity, etc.). He told the thief,"Today, you will be with Me in Paradise.".

Jesus went to Hell and took captivity captive, removing them from hell and taking them to heaven. After that all who died in His will went to heaven.

I'll start a thread so we can stop hijacking this one.

 

[divya]

Divya, scripture says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. The soul/spirit does not only refer to the spirit but also to the mind and body (person) in certain cases in the bible.

Before Jesus died on the cross people did not go straight to heaven but to Hell also known as Paradise(the upper chamber of hell for those in His will), the Lower chambers of hell (Hades, a place of burning for those outside of His will), Abraham's Bossom, Captivity, etc.). He told the thief,"Today, you will be with Me in Paradise.".

Jesus went to Hell and took captivity captive, removing them from hell and taking them to heaven. After that all who died in His will went to heaven.

I'll start a thread so we can stop hijacking this one.

Yes, we really are hijacking.

Those verses that you speak of, I understand to mean something entirely different.

Discussion continued here: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=347261

 

[Almaz]

Thank you very much