What happens during the interval between death and the final judgment?

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
Read this:

"And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light." Matthew 17: 2

Jesus wasn't in the flesh when they came to Him...He was in the spirit along with them.

Jesus certainly was in the flesh! Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary--He is Fully God and Fully Man. Jesus Christ is the God-Man. His Divine Nature is complete. His Human Nature is complete.

At no time during Christ's life on earth did He become "not human, not man, or not in the flesh." Christ's human and divine natures exist in a hypostatic union within His One Person (Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity).

When He resurrected, He resurrected with a Glorified Body (like the one we will resurrect with at the Resurrection).
 

natural_one

Well-Known Member
Read this:

"And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light." Matthew 17: 2

Jesus wasn't in the flesh when they came to Him...He was in the spirit along with them.

So when Jesus was transfigured he became Spirit, then returned back to flesh? Say that is true, but what about the disciples? They were flesh and they seen Moses and Elijah, so I am curious what changed to make that not possible now?


Matt 17:1-4

1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
 
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Galadriel

Well-Known Member
So when Jesus was transfigured he became Spirit, then returned back to flesh? Say that is true, but what about the disciples? They were flesh and they seen Moses and Elijah, so I am curious what changed to make that not possible now?


Matt 17:1-4

1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

By the way, "transfigured" means dazzling (as in light or being lit up). Christ's face and clothes lit up, revealing His Divine Light. To say Christ was no longer physical or human and then suddenly changed back would be a complete misreading of this Scripture.
 

Nice & Wavy

Well-Known Member
When Jesus was transfigured, was he sitting there with the disciples, or did they look up and see him with Elijah and Moses? If he was with them in the flesh, why would they talk to him above? Why did they not speak to him where they were? JESUS IS GOD....HE CAN DO WHAT NO MAN CAN DO...HE IS NOT HELD DOWN TO THIS EARTH AS WE KNOW IT. THIS IS WHY I SAID HE WAS NOT IN THE FLESH BUT IN THE SPIRIT!

So when Jesus was transfigured he became Spirit, then returned back to flesh? Say that is true, but what about the disciples? They were flesh and they seen Moses and Elijah, so I am curious what changed to make that not possible now?


Matt 17:1-4

1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
 

Nice & Wavy

Well-Known Member
By the way, "transfigured" means dazzling (as in light or being lit up). Christ's face and clothes lit up, revealing His Divine Light. To say Christ was no longer physical or human and then suddenly changed back would be a complete misreading of this Scripture.
The word "transfigure" means to change the appearance or form. It does not denote the change of the substance of a thing, but simply of its appearance.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
I know a few people who hold this view. If this is so, then how did Moses and Elijah appear on the mountain with Christ and speak with Him?

Matthew 17:1-8

1After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” 8When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.


Also Great question: Which gives me great pleasure to answer. God does everything for a particular reason, every single word in the bible has a meaning. Even if the lord is talking about a rock it has more meaning then just a rock. But yes. We only know of two that was taken to heaven without seeing death. Moses saw death. He actually died. He did not go to heaven when he died, he remained here on the earth where God hid his body. There is a story about Jesus coming to get his body and having Satan argue that Moses was guilty of the same sin as he, truthfully, satan wanted to be forgiven, but it was to late for him. But thats another story.

Moses and Elijah represents the Prophets. they were living symbols of the Word of God. Moses represents the law, and Elijah represents the prophets.

Matthew 5:17, “Think not that I am come to
destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come
to destroy, but to [fulfill].” Moses is the great
lawgiver, and Elijah is the greatest of the Old
Testament prophets.

The transfiguration is also a direct fulfillment of prophecy. Malachi foretold,
“Remember ye the law of Moses my servant,
which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all
Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold,
I will send you Elijah the prophet before the
great and dreadful day of the Lord.” One reason the Word of God is so wonderful is because it is so precise. Both Moses and Elijah did appear
in the New Testament prior to Jesus’ sacrifice to encourage and endorse Him.
Then, as if the endorsement of Moses and Elijah was not enough, a cloud overshadows the mountaintop and the voice of the Almighty is heard saying, “This is My beloved Son, Hear Him.” The Bible says, “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established”
(1 Corinthians 13:1). On the Mount, two humans redeemed by Christ testify He is the Messiah, and of course, the third is the voice of God Himself! And what better confirmation of truth could God have offered—the lawgiver and the greatest prophet and His own audible testimony? In effect Moses says, “This is the One.” Elijah says, “This is the One.” Then God Almighty says, “This is the One.”
There are also three aspects or stages of salvation: justification,
symbolized by Moses; sanctification, the ministry of Elijah; and the God-filled man or glorification represented by Jesus.
There will be two categories of saints when Jesus returns: the resurrected and the living. Moses, who died and was resurrected (Jude 1:9), is a symbol of the large class of people who will awake from their dusty graves when the Lord calls them—“The dead in Christ shall rise.” Elijah represents the other class of people who will be alive when Jesus returns. Like Elijah, who was caught up into heaven by a fiery chariot, and Enoch who walked with God until he walked right into heaven, they will be translated with new, glorious bodies without ever tasting death. During the transfiguration, Jesus, Moses, and Elijah are wearing white garments, the same kind that the redeemed will wear. Clouds of glory also accompany them; Jesus left in the clouds and said He would come back in the clouds. And even the voice of the Father in heaven was heard on the Glorious Mount, just as it will be when Christ returns on the right hand of the Father (Matthew 26:64).

 

Galadriel

Well-Known Member
When Jesus was transfigured, was he sitting there with the disciples, or did they look up and see him with Elijah and Moses? If he was with them in the flesh, why would they talk to him above? Why did they not speak to him where they were? JESUS IS GOD....HE CAN DO WHAT NO MAN CAN DO...HE IS NOT HELD DOWN TO THIS EARTH AS WE KNOW IT. THIS IS WHY I SAID HE WAS NOT IN THE FLESH BUT IN THE SPIRIT!

I believe Jesus Christ is God. He is also Man. He never lessened, shed away, or absorbed His human nature.
 

CoilyFields

Well-Known Member
I agree with the OP.

When I began to study death and the afterlife this is what I have come upon and it makes sense.

Sometimes it is easier to understand (see how the scriptures link together) if you already know Jewish History and tradition. Since Jesus was a Jew it makes sense that he adhered to (and by adhering to them he substantiated them) those explanations of the afterlife (especially since he mentioned them).
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Ecc 12:7 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Psalm 104:29, 30 29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psalm 104:30 New Living Translation (NLT)
30 When you give them your breath,[a] life is created,
and you renew the face of the earth.
James 2:26 New Living Translation (NLT)
26 Just as the body is dead without breath, [a] so also faith is dead without good works.
John 11:11-14 New Living Translation (NLT)
11 Then he said, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up.”
12 The disciples said, “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will soon get better!” 13 They thought Jesus meant Lazarus was simply sleeping, but Jesus meant Lazarus had died. 14 So he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.
Ecc 9:5,6
Ecclesiastes 9:5 New Living Translation (NLT)
5 The living at least know they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, nor are they remembered. Whatever they did in their lifetime—loving, hating, envying—is all long gone. They no longer play a part in anything here on earth.
Ecclesiastes 9:6 King James Version (KJV)
6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Psalm 146:4 King James Version (KJV)
4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish
Rev 14:13 13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. This should tell you that your fate is sealed at death. You have already been judged. All that awaits when Jesus comes again for the 3rd time is you facing your fate.
Ezekiel 18:4 4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Here again. We know that you do not have eternal life if you are a unrepented sinner. The SOUL can die.
1 Timothy 6:15,16 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen. God alone is immortal. Not humans it is a gift. Those destine for hell will not receive immortality, and burn forever.
Where do the dead go when they die? To their Grave
Job 21:32 King James Version (KJV)
32Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb
Acts 2:29, 34 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
29 “[a]Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
34 For it was not David who ascended into [a]heaven, but he himself says:
‘THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
1 Corinthians 15:51-53New American Standard Bible (NASB)
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised [a]imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on [c]the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. Now remember the word says blessed are those who died in Christ, this is their reward.
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [a]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [c]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [d]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
1 John 5:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Ok here is the thing all of these scriptures go together, they answer the questions. What happens in death. You are asleep knowing nothing. They are asleep. Death is a rest. Those in the grave or waiting for the Return of Jesus, but they are not even aware of anything at all. Everything about the those who have died no longer exist. We cannot speak to them or they to us. Their thoughts and plans cease to exist.
The spirit and the air or the same thing. Your very breath is the spirit within you it has life that was given to you from God. When you die the breath returns to God it is nothing without the body. It is not waiting, it is not pleading for anyone it is no more. The Word says it is sleeping, knowing nothing.
Just because a belief is common doesn’t make it true or correct. It is important to go scripture by scripture, line by line, precept by precept in order to understand the mystery.
Also Demons or fallen angels can speak and can reveal themselves if they choose too. It’s only to deceive you.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, this article is based on a parable and you cannot make a judgement on a parable this parable has nothing to do with heaven or hell. Most mainline churches base their belief on this parable and others say its in the word of God and God makes no mistakes but the truth of the matter is it has more meaning then what is says as do all parables. This parable is about the Jews, the gentiles and the Pharisees. Let the holy spirit guide us in all truths.
 

Nice & Wavy

Well-Known Member
I believe Jesus Christ is God. He is also Man. He never lessened, shed away, or absorbed His human nature.
What does this have to do with what I said? Please don't try to twist my words around...you are trying to imply that I don't understand who my God is and what took place at that moment. My God is an awesome God!

I'm done here anyway so carry on.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
Do you believe that all the saved go into Abraham's literal bosom as soon as they die? Now obviously, that is a figurative expression. And it's not unfair for us to ask you whether you take that literal or not. So far we have been attempting to prove that this parable does not mean what it is often contended. It does not teach that the good go to heaven and the bad to torment the next minute after death. It does not teach that there is an immaterial spirit or soul which comes out of the body at death and remains in a conscious state. It does not teach that in the future world the lost and saved are so close to each other that they can see and talk to each other.

Now having found what it does not mean, let's see if we can discover, by comparing spiritual things with spiritual, just what Jesus meant to teach when He gave this story. I believe it can be proved that the rich man represented the proud, self-righteous Jews, and that the poor man represented the despised Gentiles; that Jesus was tactfully warning the Jews that if they continued to reject the Messiah of Moses and the prophets, the time would come when they would die to their national relationship with God as a chosen people, and that the Gentiles whom they despised and ignored would come in to take their place. The fact that he kept praying to father Abraham certainly proves that he was a Jew. None will deny that Abraham was the father of the Jewish nation and that they put a great deal of confidence in being Abraham's seed.

When John was appealing to them to repent, he added this: "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Matthew 3:9. On another occasion Jesus said to them, "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Their answer was, "We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man." John 8:32, 33. It seems that this is quite sufficient to prove that the rich man who prayed to Abraham represented the Jewish nation.

This story says that the rich man fared sumptuously every day. No nation was ever favored with so many blessings as was the Jewish nation. Reminding them of this Moses said in Deuteronomy 4:7, 8, "For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for? And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?" , this is very, very true. And then notice how he continues. "Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of fire, as thou hast heard and live, Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation ... by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, ... and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, ... Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice." Verses 33-36.

It was a purpose of God that they should share these favors and spiritual blessings with the Gentile people. There are plenty of texts to prove that God wanted the Jews to go out and preach these things to the Samaritans, to the Greeks, to the Romans, and to all the Gentiles. In the parable the rich man, instead of sharing his blessings with the poor man, he ignored him and looked upon him with scorn. This was precisely the attitude of the Jews toward the Gentiles. The Jews associated the Gentiles with the dogs and ignored them completely. We find an illustration of this in Matthew 15:21-28. "Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. And, behold, a woman of Canaan (now this is a Gentile) came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Notice next that Jesus assumed toward her the same attitude as did the Jews in order to teach his disciples how wrong it was. "But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me."
Now notice, , how she's acting the part of a beggar. "But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table." Yes, we remember similar language in the parable. She meant that she would be satisfied with just the crumbs of His service. "Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour." Oh, how strikingly this illustrates the story of the rich man and the beggar. It will be remembered that the rich man had no dealings with the poor man, and it's a fact that the Jews had no dealings with the Gentiles. When Jesus spoke kindly to the woman at the well, she was surprised and said, "How is it that thou, being a Jew, asketh drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans." John 4:9. This woman had Gentile blood in her and that's why the Jews had no dealings with her. Even the disciples were infected with this Jewish prejudice against the Gentiles, and they marveled that He talked with the woman.

When Peter was instructed in a vision to visit the Gentile family of Cornelius, when he went into the house, "he said ... Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation." Acts 10:28. So the very feelings of the rich man toward the beggar in the parable was to illustrate the feelings of the Jews toward the Gentiles.
The time came when the rich man died and lifted up his eyes in torment. Now what happened to the Jewish people? We know that the time came when they died to their former relationship to God as a chosen people, and the Gentiles did come in and take their place. Deuteronomy, chapter 28. God said that these torments would come to them because of the way they dealt with others and the great message of truth that had been delivered to them. They did not share it with others, therefore the Gentiles did come in. They were grafted into the tree and took the place of the Jews as far as the spiritual blessings of God were concerned. Their last warning is in Daniel Chapter 9 they were given 490 years to change. But they did not.
Seventy Weeks and the Messiah
24 “Seventy [t]weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to [v]make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and [w]prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
 

Laela

Sidestepping the "lynch mob"
I believe that Jesus spoke in parables on purpose, for a reason. God has always been a God of Purpose. So the Parables Jesus spoke were living words, from the mouth of God, that served a Purpose.

It's an injustice to ourselves to focus more on the probability of the reality of the stories, than on the spiritual Truth being conveyed directly to our hearts, from the Heart of God!

Parables either:

"CONCEALED"..
.
1. Jesus began speaking in parables because of the hardness of
many people's hearts - cf. Mt 13:10-17
a. The disciples' attitude was such that they were blessed to
learn "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" - Mt 13:
10-12,16-17
b. But because of the hard hearts of many in the multitude,
Jesus began speaking to them in parables - Mt 13:13-15;
cf. Mk 4:10-12
c. He would then explain the parables in private to His
disciples - Mk 4:33-34
2. By resorting to parables, Jesus effectively separated the
truth-seekers from the curiosity-seekers!
a. Those seeking the truth would say "Explain to us the
parable..." - Mt 13:36
b. Whereas the simply curious could easily be sent away
3. Indeed, Jesus used parables to carry out Divine judgement...
- cf. Mt 13:12
a. "For whoever has (a good heart, listening ears), to him
more will be given, and he will have abundance (by virtue
of the parable being explained)"
b. "But whoever does not have (a good heart, listening ears),
even what he has will be taken away from him (by virtue of
being sent away with the multitude)"

OR:

"REVEALED"...
1. Even though the primary purpose in telling parables was to
conceal the "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" from the
multitude!
a. For once the disciples understood the basic meaning of the
parables...
b. ...the comparison of the "known" (earthly) truths with the
"unknown" (heavenly) truths would shed further light on the
unknown
2. Therefore, with the help of the Lord's explanation of His
parables we can learn more about "the mysteries of the kingdom
of heaven" - cf. Mt 13:34-35

source: http://executableoutlines.com/
 
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