Can You Lose Your Salvation?

[alexstin]

What further confirms my belief that once saved, always saved is Romans 8:37-39.

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is Satan that seeks to distort God's truth and lead us astray but God has promised that nothing can separate us from Him. God's desire is that we all be saved, we all have eternal life and I don't believe that He would allow Satan to lead a believer astray.

Satan led Adam and Eve astray. They enjoyed perfect fellowship with God but they chose to listen to the serpent instead of obeying God. They knew what to do but chose not to do it.

 

[comike]

Satan led Adam and Eve astray. They enjoyed perfect fellowship with God but they chose to listen to the serpent instead of obeying God. They knew what to do but chose not to do it.

That's correct but that was before Christ came to save us from our sins. That's why we don't do the animal sacrifices for atonement that were described before Christ came.

 

[alexstin]

Right, but the point was God allowed them to be led astray because of free will. They chose death and so had to leave Eden. No different than today.

The purpose for Christ coming was to restore what we lost in the Garden(our dominion over the earth and continual fellowship with God by His Spirit). Christ made a way for us to get back to that because that was always God's original intent. But just like Adam and Eve we can choose to obey or not.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

I believe salvation is a gift from God so in that sense we can't really lose it. I believe that if a person lives life as a carnal Christian then they never were really saved or have committed apostasy. I found this info on the web:

Why isn't our salvation eternally secured the moment we accept Jesus? When you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, you are entering into a covenant relationship with Him. In Scripture we see God's promises for those who enter into this covenant as well as what He expects from man in order to uphold our part of the covenant. The key here is that it takes 2 to make and keep a covenant. Our salvation is not all on God (as we have seen above, there are conditions we have to meet) neither is it all on us (He gave His Son, He forgives when we repent...). Although God is faithful to always meet His part of the covenant, man is not always faithful. When we disregard our part of the covenant we have made with God, the covenant has been broken.

Finally, we will leave you with the following Scripture from Hebrews 10:26-29:

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

This is actually scripture:

1 John 3:6 - No one who continues to sin has either seen or known Him.

We are all sinful by nature, but this scripture entails PURPOSEFULLY sinning.

 

[brazenxvirtue]

My mom and I were just talking about this recently. Here's a verse I'd like to share:

Colossians 1:21-23
21. And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22. in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--
23. IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard...

And an even more direct verse, Hebrews 10:26-27 & 29
26. For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27. but a certain fearful expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries...

29. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?


I believe that God allows us to freely choose or to freely reject Him. But if we reject Him once His Holy Spirit has revealed the truth to us, it doesn't seem like He's under any obligation to continue to force Himself on us.

 

[loolalooh]

Okay, this thread is already making me believe that one can lose salvation. I was actually going to bring this verse into question:

Hebrews 6:4-6.
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”

Some say it refers solely to nonbelievers. I interpret it as refering to believers and the "if they fall away" showing that they can lose their salvation. After that, it is then "impossible to renew" ... to regain salvation. However, there was another interpretation that true believers could not fall away. I'm not sure which is correct.

Does anyone have more clarity about these verses? I'll try to find more info later.

 

[loolalooh]

Mark 3:29



But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.





Mt 12:31-32

31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.





I think the thing about "losing salvation" is that when you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, it is God's choice to expel you from eternity with Him



However with the reprobate mind issue, it is the individual's choice to continue with sinful behavior, having full knowledge that it is wrong, and thus, they kick themselves out, by continuing without remorse to sin.



I think the blaspheming is like the express highway of reprobate mindedness. It doesn't take time after time after time. All it takes is one time for you to get there and get put on out.

Thanks for finding these verses! At the bolded: That would be my interpretation too. I wonder why many of us are taught otherwise - that nothing could make us lose our salvation. Could we be misinterpreting this Scripture or taking it out of context? I wish I had more time to study the Bible. (I should make more time, rather.)

 

[sidney]

Okay, this thread is already making me believe that one can lose salvation. I was actually going to bring this verse into question:

Hebrews 6:4-6.
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”

Some say it refers solely to nonbelievers. I interpret it as refering to believers and the "if they fall away" showing that they can lose their salvation. After that, it is then "impossible to renew" ... to regain salvation. However, there was another interpretation that true believers could not fall away. I'm not sure which is correct.

Does anyone have more clarity about these verses? I'll try to find more info later.

I would like to know this as well. Is seems that people can fall away from the faith. There is so much false teaching out there that you really have to search the scriptures for yourselves. So many people fall away but they think they have eternal security. When I get more time I am going to study this next.

 

[sidney]

Thanks for finding these verses! At the bolded: That would be my interpretation too. I wonder why many of us are taught otherwise - that nothing could make us lose our salvation. Could we be misinterpreting this Scripture or taking it out of context? I wish I had more time to study the Bible. (I should make more time, rather.)

Don't forget there are commentaries from theologians that can break down the context. I also try to read several versions to get the meaning from that, I may read the english bible, niv, message, king james, etc.

 

[loolalooh]

I would like to know this as well. Is seems that people can fall away from the faith. There is so much false teaching out there that you really have to search the scriptures for yourselves. So many people fall away but they think they have eternal security. When I get more time I am going to study this next.

Very true indeed.

Don't forget there are commentaries from theologians that can break down the context. I also try to read several versions to get the meaning from that, I may read the english bible, niv, message, king james, etc.

Thanks for the tip! Let me know if you find anything concrete.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Thanks for finding these verses! At the bolded: That would be my interpretation too. I wonder why many of us are taught otherwise - that nothing could make us lose our salvation. Could we be misinterpreting this Scripture or taking it out of context? I wish I had more time to study the Bible. (I should make more time, rather.)

Call me a conspiracy theorist. . .but I believe that the teaching that one can never lose salvation(no matter what) is just a a trick of the devil. A slight of hand trick, if you would say.

Because if you can never lose salvation then that would give people license to do whatever they wanted to do. And that license would enable people to no ever stop things that are sinful because they'd start thinking that salvation is for everyone, regardless of their beliefs or actions. And all that would lead to pushing out the necessity for the testimony of Jesus Christs Birth, Death, Resurrection, and Return. And then you'd have people coming up with new doctrines---search for the doctrine of inclusion(just one example off the top of my head) its also refered to as universalism


The enemy is slick. salvation is a gift and gifts can be revoked! period. point blank. We have a covenant with God that we are to uphold our end of it. If we don't, there WILL be repercussions. Period point blank. God has a plan for us, but if we jump ship, then we stray from His plan which includes our salvation. No such thing as sorta-saved. You are either saved or you are not and when you step off the path that God has laid out, you are off the path and subject to death--mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

and then. . .the kicker with that blasphemous mess of inclusion states that only those who have tasted of the fruits of a relationship with Christ AND rejected God's grace will suffer eternal seperation---I paraphrased, check it our yourself

That is a hidden fear tactic to make people fear even getting into relationship with Jesus.

Oooo, the devil just makes me mad!

 

[loolalooh]

Call me a conspiracy theorist. . .but I believe that the teaching that one can never lose salvation(no matter what) is just a a trick of the devil. A slight of hand trick, if you would say.

Because if you can never lose salvation then that would give people license to do whatever they wanted to do. And that license would enable people to no ever stop things that are sinful because they'd start thinking that salvation is for everyone, regardless of their beliefs or actions. And all that would lead to pushing out the necessity for the testimony of Jesus Christs Birth, Death, Resurrection, and Return. And then you'd have people coming up with new doctrines---search for the doctrine of inclusion(just one example off the top of my head) its also refered to as universalism


The enemy is slick. salvation is a gift and gifts can be revoked! period. point blank. We have a covenant with God that we are to uphold our end of it. If we don't, there WILL be repercussions. Period point blank. God has a plan for us, but if we jump ship, then we stray from His plan which includes our salvation. No such thing as sorta-saved. You are either saved or you are not and when you step off the path that God has laid out, you are off the path and subject to death--mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally.

And it's sad that this teaching continues if it truly is false. I've received this very teaching much of my life and then stumbled upon Hebrews 6 which made me question it. Then I started attending a bible study group and the topic about salvation became the highlight. The consensus was that it can never be lost. I brought up what I had read but couldn't remember the verse or that it was Hebrews 6 for the life of me. I couldn't remember the Mark and Matthew references either. With that, I thought maybe I didn't know what I talking about ... so I continued believing the teaching.

This realization confirms to me yet again that we need to read, read, read the Word and know it well and confidently. Even in the community of my bible study group (i.e., fellow saved believers), I was led to accept that salvation cannot be lost. Will definitely read more Scripture concerning this topic.

 

[JinaRicci]

It's a very dirty trick! You can lose your salvation by the choices you make and see no need to repent because of this false sense of security.

I think for us to understand Hebrews 6, we have to go back to the previous chapter. In Chapter 5, he is talking about believers young in the word requiring milk (the first principles) vs seasoned believers on meat.

12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

So in Chapter 6, he goes on to to talk about those already past the first stages:

1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

So once you're already enlightened and have been so close to God that you've tasted and seen that the Lord is good so much so that you can anticipate heaven:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

And IF you turn away from all of that, how will you be brought again to repentance? What would now convince you like when you were first enlightened to repent?

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It didn't say that you could not be forgiven. But someone like that renouncing God and all the promises after everything would be hard (no impossible) to bring to repentance because of their own guilt.

I think about Judas who knew Jesus and was so close to all the miracles he performed yet gave up everything even the kingdom for a bit of money. In the end his guilt robbed him of everything.

Now we know that with God all things are possible. But what the apostle is talking about is repentance being impossible because of what it signifies to that man.

It's like when Jesus said that it's impossible for a rich man to enter heaven. Mark 10: 17-31. But Jesus went on to say that it's easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye. When asked who could possibly enter heaven, he replied:

27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Rich people will be in heaven, right. But in this case Jesus is talking about how much harder it would seem to that rich person when he considers all that he would have to give up. To the rich person it would be impossible but not with God.

 

[sidney]

Hey ladies, remember to throughly search the scriptures on this one. I wouldn't rule out "one saved, always saved" just based on one scripture because you have to understand the context.

Here is a page with scriptures to support your the idea that you can fall away from the faith. http://www.truthablaze.com/osasrefuted.html
But I'm wondering, who are these people who are falling away. Could it be that they only 'believed' in God but truly didn't know him.

But then there are these scriptures:

John 3:15-18 says about Christ: “The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.”


Phillipians 1:6
Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Ephesianns 2:9
Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it

So if people fall away from the faith, wouln't salvation be based on works then, which is contrary to the bible?

 

[Crown]

Not so sure (about the quote)!
Rom.11 : 28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.

... salvation is a gift and gifts can be revoked! period. point blank.

Please don’t confound salvation and reward.
1 Cor. 3.15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I think the real point here is discernment and studying the Word to have a whole picture : reading articles is a supplement, you can go in one sense or the other if the person is a good writer and if you don’t know the Scriptures.

The Bible said this, for example :

Jn.10.27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 10.28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 10.29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Mc. 13.22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Ph. 2.13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Salvation is a gift of GOD, you have eternal life or you don’t have eternal life, period. GOD is not an amateur.

You can seem to have it and don’t really have it.
Mat. 22.14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Mat. 13.28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 13.29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 13.30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Rom. 8.9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Mat. 7.23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


This article explains it better than what I could do (but, study the Bible for yourself with the Holy Spirit):
http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/once_saved.htm

 

[comike]

If you can lose your salvation then what was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross? What was the purpose of His atonement? That would mean we're back to square one. I've never read anywhere in the Bible where one can lose his salvation. Reading the book of Romans revealed a lot to me about my salvation. I think it's more of a trick of the devil to say that one isn't really saved...that there is no assurance.

 

[loolalooh]

Here's a fraction of what my NLT Life Application says ...

Hebrews 6:6: "This verse points to the danger of the Hebrew Christians' returning to Judaism and thus committing apostasy. Some apply this verse today to superficial believers who renounce their Christianity or to unbelievers who come close to salvation and then turn away. Either way, those who reject Christ will not be saved. Christ died once for all ... However, the author does not indicate that his readers were in danger of the renouncing Christ (See 6:9). He is warning against hardness of heart that would make repentance inconceivable for the sinner."

9 Dear friends, even though we are talking this way, we really don’t believe it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation.

I'll read the links Sidney and Crown posted as well and really try to understand this this weekend. The Matthew and Mark verses still make me go hmm. Thanks, ladies. Til then.

 

[loolalooh]

Sidney and Crown ... I've taken a peak at your links and I'm think I'm seeing what's happening ... It's very easy to remove Hebrews 6:4-6 and make it stand on its own ... but piece it together with the rest of the Scripture, and it takes on a different meaning ... will get back to this later after reading thoroughly.

 

[LovingLady]

I don't think it is possible for Christians to lose their salvation. Just because you go to church and shout a few Amens, that doesn't make you a Christian, which means you don't have salvation. I find it next to impossible for a Christian to walk away from God after they truly know Him and what He has done for them.

Matthew 7:18-27

18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 

[loolalooh]

Okay, I can't stop reading. Lol.

Believing does not equal salvation. (Even the devil believes.)
So there may be people thinking they are saved but they are not.
Those are the ones that can fall away.
Those who are truly saved are incapable of falling away. (It's just not in them to do this after being renewed.)

So it's not enough to say the "salvation prayer". Salvation is actual change, rebirth. (This will lead me into James, more reading there.)

That's what I'm getting so far. I'll be back ...

Could it be that many believers miss actual salvation?

 

[HeChangedMyName]

I don't think it is possible for Christians to lose their salvation. Just because you go to church and shout a few Amens, that doesn't make you a Christian, which means you don't have salvation. I find it next to impossible for a Christian to walk away from God after they truly know Him and what He has done for them.

Matthew 7:18-27

18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

I sort of agree with the bolded. For me personally, I can't see myself turning away from my Heavenly Father. But people do it all the time. I do wonder though. . .were they every wholeheartedly "Christian"? hmmmmm

 

[loolalooh]

delete ... still reading.

 

[joytimes10]

I'd like to add a little to what's already been said. When the work of salvation is complete in you, the inner man is transformed and in dwelt by the Holy Spirit. Because of the new influence, the HS, you can no longer be indifferent to and unrepentant of your sins.

When Jesus saved me, he forgave ALL my sins, present, past, and future. However, when I hold on to or neglect to repent of any sins in my life, this puts me out of fellowship with God. When I'm out of fellowship, I can't exact His perfect will for my life, I lose access to His blessings, and I suffer loss of eternal rewards. These rewards are the ebb and flow, not my salvation. I cannot loose my salvation because that would render the HS in me ineffective. He is perfect hence, incapable of being ineffective.

This brings me the blasphemy of the HS. This is why this sin is unforgivable. If you eject the HS from dwelling w/in you by blasphemy and profane his Holy name, then you have separated yourself from God eternally and hence you loose your salvation. Once it's lost, it cannot be regained.

One final word.... We have to remember that God judges the heart of man and thus it is only He who can determine ones true state of salvation. Just because someone is living an ungodly life doesn't mean they are not saved. What it means is that they are out of fellowship with God, subject to the curse of sin and all it's consequences. The sad thing is that even when we restore fellowship with the Father, through repentance, we still have to reap the remaining consequences of deeds done while out of fellowship. Thank God that He is gracious to restore some of what we loose because of our willfull disobedience.

My righteousness is as filthy rags, so I know I cannot "keep" myself saved. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boost" Eph 6:7. I trust the work of the HS in me to keep me as a Bride adorned for her Husband. This is my blessed hope.

 

[momi]

I don't think so. How can you loose something that you had no power to gain yourself.

I do believe that there are many who confess Christ but are not truly saved. The Good Shepherd said He knows those who are His and no one can snatch them out of His hand.

 

[Crown]

Eph. 4 : 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2Cor. 1: 21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2Tim. 2 : 19Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

[FONT=&quot]Eph. 1: 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

If someone is not sealed, he can fall away.
But if you are sealed, how can you be out?
You believe or you don't believe, but :
[/FONT]He set his seal of ownership on us! 2Cor. 1:22
You have one desire : please Him.
But in the flesh you have to be careful to not grieve His Holy Spirit.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

^^^ momi, that's it right there. Thanks.

 

[loolalooh]

I'd like to add a little to what's already been said. When the work of salvation is complete in you, the inner man is transformed and in dwelt by the Holy Spirit. Because of the new influence, the HS, you can no longer be indifferent to and unrepentant of your sins.

When Jesus saved me, he forgave ALL my sins, present, past, and future. However, when I hold on to or neglect to repent of any sins in my life, this puts me out of fellowship with God. When I'm out of fellowship, I can't exact His perfect will for my life, I lose access to His blessings, and I suffer loss of eternal rewards. These rewards are the ebb and flow, not my salvation. I cannot loose my salvation because that would render the HS in me ineffective. He is perfect hence, incapable of being ineffective.

This brings me the blasphemy of the HS. This is why this sin is unforgivable. If you eject the HS from dwelling w/in you by blasphemy and profane his Holy name, then you have separated yourself from God eternally and hence you loose your salvation. Once it's lost, it cannot be regained.

I did some more reading (still reading) and I'm also convinced that one can lose one's salvation this way. (Matthew 12). To "blasphemy the HS" is to knowingly attribute the works of the Spirit to the enemy. Knowingly. That's a big thing. It's bigger than disobeying the Lord. It's bigger to complaining to the Lord. Etc.

I almost want to say that anyone who is truly saved couldn't possibly do this, but who knows. I cannot speak for others who are saved. What I can say is that I couldn't do this as someone who is saved. Why would I look at a blessing or miracle, know that it is of the HS, and then tell others it's from the enemy instead? My first instinct, as someone who is saved, is to praise God for the blessing or miracle.

One final word.... We have to remember that God judges the heart of man and thus it is only He who can determine ones true state of salvation. Just because someone is living an ungodly life doesn't mean they are not saved. What it means is that they are out of fellowship with God, subject to the curse of sin and all it's consequences. The sad thing is that even when we restore fellowship with the Father, through repentance, we still have to reap the remaining consequences of deeds done while out of fellowship. Thank God that He is gracious to restore some of what we loose because of our willfull disobedience.

My righteousness is as filthy rags, so I know I cannot "keep" myself saved. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boost" Eph 6:7. I trust the work of the HS in me to keep me as a Bride adorned for her Husband. This is my blessed hope.

I had to bold this. Thank you for stating this. Another topic that was on my mind.

 

[Poohbear]

What does it mean to "fall away"?

Do we "fall away" each time we commit a sin? Even if we commit the same sin?

Some may say, "if you're remorseful for that sin." Well, Are we really remorseful and feel sorry for doing that sin if we keep doing it over and over again?

I still have a hang-up about sinfulness and salvation. Some say God forgives and forgets sin over and over again, while others say we must live holy, blameless, righteous, and pure and free of sin. I wish there was something clear about this.

 

[Poohbear]

I have a question about blasphemy too...

Is diminishing faith and feelings of agnoticism considered blasphemy?