Coconut oil does not penetrate hair........

[Embyra]

........only when freshly washed according to this PDF http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2003/cc054n02/p00175-p00192.pdf

now i always thought coconut oil penetrated hair REGARDLESS apparently thats not the case


So my question is if this is correct what is the point of doing ''oiling' if none of it will be penetrated and just sit on the surface wouldnt that mean you could use any oil for the ''oiling''?.....ie slap some mineral oil on there and keep it movingerplexed



copied from another board



The research concluded that "Coconut oil performed better as a pre-wash rather than a post-wash conditioner. This shows the importance of lubrication vs reduction in the swelling of the cuticle cells that leads to their breaking in wet combing.", (Page 12 of the pdf). In other words, during shampooing, the hair was lubricated and friction was reduced and right after washing, tangling was reduced.

"In post-wash application the oil film is on the surface with no penetration into the fiber." (Page 15 of the pdf). This explains why coconut oil oiling can and has been reported on these boards to result in dry "crunchy" hair. The oil is not penetrating into the hair and like any oil that is overused can build-up on hair causing problems. This also means that despite appearances, no other oil penetrates hair except during shampooing. Coconut oil is the only oil shown by research to penetrate hair deeply and that is only done during the shampoo process, without anything else getting in the way of that, like residues and film formers, which have been reported to cause problems like less than optimal results and tangling, here in this thread. Coconut oil still outperformed the other oils tested in post-wash results as a grooming aid (Page 1 of the pdf).

Members here have reported that their hair has responded very well to a coconut oil shampoo, and often not to oiling their hair with coconut oil, when their hair has been damp or dry. The benefits of a coconut oil shampoo can provide the same ones as a coconut oil pre-wash.

Of the various oils tested during the research, coconut oil outperformed the others in preventing hair cuticle damage (Page 15 of the pdf). The ability of coconut oil to protect even damaged hair is also attributed to its ability (the lauric acid) to penetrate hair to the cortex level during shampooing (Page 17 of the pdf).

The results in this thread support coconut oil added to a shampoo being preferable to using other oils that were tried.

 

[Hysi]

interesting...i'll wait for more responses. btw i love, love, love me some CO!

 

[k.belle]

Good article!

 

[softblackcotton]

I personally did not understand why so many other women had problems with coconut oil.I bought Unrefined, Expeller-pressed coconut oil from Whole Foods. The first few times I've ever used Coconut Oil were my last two washes. After freshly co-washing and detangling my hair with conditioner. I cover all my soaking wet hair and scalp in coconut oil,let it sit while I wash the rest of my body, and then I washed out the excess oil. It has left my hair soft, pliable, and stronger. When your hair is wet, it expands and the pores of the strand are open it is during this time when coconut oil can absorb into the core of the hair strand. Inside of the hair is where coconut oil works. I've never had a "crunchy" feel, but I could understand how it can be crunchy. Pure, unrefined coconut oil is solid at room temperature. If you apply coconut oil to hair that is dry or mostly dry when pores are mostly closed, it will sit on top of the hair and harden to it's solid form at room temperature resulting in the "crunchy" feeling.

 

[Bigmommah]

I love coconut oil in a variety of applications for my hair. I would need to see a more extensive study or studies to change my mind based on other research I've read and my own personal experience.

 

[sunnieb]

Interesting article, but I guess it doesn't apply to me. I've used my EVCO on dry hair, freshly shampooed hair, freshly cowashed hair, etc. Always works the same way for my hair - keeps moisture sealed in without weighing it down.

 

[butterfly_wings]

This doesnt make sense to me. Surly the coconut oil would pentrate regardless. If your hair is wet then the hair shaft if full of water and less space fo the oil to pentrate. If the hair sharf has the suggested 11% then that leaves much more space for the coconut oil to fill.

I love coconut oil anyway, espacially mixed with olive oil and my favorite conditioner as a leave in

 

[Myjourney2009]

You know this post came right on time.

I have to oil my scalp because ALLLLLL shampoos make me itch except for neutralizing shampoos. I normally use rice bran oil but ran out and had to use my EVCO. I applied the oil to my scalp and of course some got on my hair, I then waited a few minutes before washing because I was doing other stuff.

Well, when I wet it before applying the shampoo my hair felt great. It felt very moisturized easy to manage, it felt like I had applied conditioner to it. I am going to continue using this on my scalp.

If anyone applies EVCO as a pre-poo and they are consistant (more than 3 consecutive days a week, and if used the day before or the day of washing) -cone, -xane or polyquate users, I dont think this will work. This being because these specific ingredients block out any goodness from penetrating oils.

 

[GlamaDiva]

I have to say I agree with the article. Just the other day I used some coconut oil in a deep treatment after a wash and after i rinsed it out i could see it just sitting on my hair. The day after I was confused as to why my hair felt "dry and crunchy". I love coconut oil but I will try using it prewash for a treatment and see what difference it makes. Thanks for the article!

 

[JFK]

I don't know. Read this article to the millions of Indian women who have been using coconut oil for years. LOL.

j/k OP.

 

[Embyra]

I don't know. Read this article to the millions of Indian women who have been using coconut oil for years. LOL.

j/k OP.

thats what i thought however the research was done in Mumbai India


it contradicts all what i thought coconut oil was MEANT to do with regular oiling

i LOVE coconut oil and used it exclusively while stretching relaxer for a year and a half and my hair stayed intact surely if the oil was merely sitting on top of my hair strand and NOT penetrating/strengthening my hair would have all snapped offerplexed

because in therory if it does not penetrate when used after shampooing its no different to MINERAL OIL

 

[Krullete]

IDK...

If you are, for example, an Indian woman who lightly grooms her hair with coconut oil daily (or once in 2 days), then washes her hair with shampoo and hot water (such that the cuticle is raised and the previously applied CO penetrates) on the 3rd or 4th day, at which time does the application of CO stop being post-wash and instead become a pre-wash application... thus fulfilling the criteria of the aforementioned study?

[Apologies for the run-on question format!]

 

[JFK]

IDK...

If you are, for example, an Indian woman who lightly grooms her hair with coconut oil daily (or once in 2 days), then washes her hair with shampoo and hot water (such that the cuticle is raised and the previously applied CO penetrates) on the 3rd or 4th day, at which time does the application of CO stop being post-wash and instead become a pre-wash application... thus fulfilling the criteria of the aforementioned study?

[Apologies for the run-on question format!]

Sorry, this is going to be slightly OT but, I'm amazed at how technical, scientific, thoughtful, and creative the women on this board can be when it comes to hair. It's not a game. LOL.

I mean this in a good way. <3

 

[Krullete]

[...]when it comes to hair.

Not only hair... . It's a broad-reaching pathology, in my case.

 

[Embyra]

It's not a game. LOL.

we dont play round these parts

 

[Chaosbutterfly]

I'm procrastinating on my homework, so I actually sat down and read the study in question, and this is why we need to question pretty much everything that we read. I think the person who posted this on the other board misinterpreted the findings.
The phrases in bold come from two different sections and are referring to two different things...I'm assuming that they just copy and pasted that stuff together to make their own point.

Firstly, "Coconut oil performed better as a pre-wash rather than a post-wash conditioner" was definitely not the overall finding of the study. The point of the study was to see how mineral oil, sunflower oil, and coconut oil work to prevent hair damage. The overall finding was that for damaged hair, coconut oil was best because it can penetrate the hair strand (due to the arrangement of it fatty acid bonds and it's molecular weight), and that sunflower oil and mineral oil are essentially on the same footing because neither of them can do that. I can't copy quotes because it's coming out weird, but the overall finding can be located on the first page, last paragraph of the synopsis. So that's that....coconut oil definitely penetrates the hair. If your hair is crunchy with it, your hair just doesn't like coconut oil or it's gone and frozen on your hair. Or if you've been using coconut oil problem free and it suddenly started acting up, then maybe it's doing its job a little too well, and you now have a problem with protein overload.

But going back to coconut oil performing better as a pre-wash rather than a post wash conditioner, that was referred to in the section where the scientists were testing for protein loss, not the oil's ability to penetrate. The study says that if you are using coconut oil to avoid protein loss, then it is better to use it as a pre-wash than a post wash. This is because hair loses most of its protein from the inner layers of cuticles as they open and shut. If you use coconut oil before washing, then it can sink in and lubricate the inner cuticles and make it easier for them open and shut stress free. The study also assumed that people wash their hair with hot water, and they used boiling water for their experiments. If you don't use hot water in your regimen, then this may not even apply to you, because your cuticles wouldn't even be opening so much. But anyway, using it after washing is less effective because by then, the cuticles have already opened...putting oil on them at that point is kind of a little too late. If you look at the chart, it will still be good, but just not as good as putting them on before. All of that can be found on pages 11 and 12.

And as for, ""In post-wash application the oil film is on the surface with no penetration into the fiber", that quote wasn't even about coconut oil specifically. It applied to all oils in the study and came from the section where the study talked about water retention index (WRI), or how much water is in the cortex (how swollen it is) when these oils are applied pre-wash and post wash. According to the study, for damaged hair, you don't want that much water in the cortex. If the strands are constantly swelling and shrinking, your cuticles are under constant pressure and stress, which only damages them more.

The study says that when it comes to reducing the WRI, it is better to apply your oils before you wash instead of after. This is because some of the oil (the study called it "oil film" or "residue", and all oils make it) sits on top of the hair, and keeps moisture from getting out. Lol, we call this sealing.

But if you apply your oil before you wash, then it's there when the cuticles open, and it's a possibility that some of the hydrophobic molecules can get through the cuticles and keep too much water from getting into the cortex. But this part is full of "mays" and "possibles" and "must bes", so it's clear that the researchers aren't even sure of how that really works.

The bottom line is that if you don't want your cuticle all waterlogged, then pre-poo with oils. If you look at the diagram, then all the oils are effective to an extent. But coconut oil is obviously the most effective, as the hairs that were treated with it have the lowest water retention index. This is presumably because it is easier for coconut oil to penetrate the hair than it is for the other oils, so it's easier for it to keep water out. And all of that is on pages 14 - 15.

The only thing I see this study saying is that coconut oil is magical stuff. Which many people knew already. And I'm sorry for the novel lmao, but someone should tell that other person to sit down. I hate when people twist stuff up to fit their own conclusions or beliefs or whatever.

 

[paterrol]

Now this information makes a lot of sense to me. Every time I used coconut oil after I shampooed/condition my hair was so soft but then the next day when I reapplied to dry hair my hair was dry and crunchy.

 

[~~HoneyComb~~]

I thought most oils only sealed the hair anyway, not penetrate it.

 

[Embyra]

Chaosbutterfly

do not apologize for the novel i like a good read your post made perfect sense to me

 

[winnettag]

Well thanks for breaking it down Chaosbutterfly! I sure wasn't going to read that whole research article.

 

[Embyra]

I thought most oils only sealed the hair anyway, not penetrate it.

coconut oil

avocado oil

olive oil

i believe all are able to penetrate


if im wrong let me know ill delete this

 

[NikStarrr]

I'm going to need to see more than one article for my mind to just be instantly changed. I believe CO does penetrate the hair--at least it does mine because I apply it almost daily and my hair is never greasy.

 

[empressri]

I personally did not understand why so many other women had problems with coconut oil.I bought Unrefined, Expeller-pressed coconut oil from Whole Foods. The first few times I've ever used Coconut Oil were my last two washes. After freshly co-washing and detangling my hair with conditioner. I cover all my soaking wet hair and scalp in coconut oil,let it sit while I wash the rest of my body, and then I washed out the excess oil. It has left my hair soft, pliable, and stronger. When your hair is wet, it expands and the pores of the strand are open it is during this time when coconut oil can absorb into the core of the hair strand. Inside of the hair is where coconut oil works. I've never had a "crunchy" feel, but I could understand how it can be crunchy. Pure, unrefined coconut oil is solid at room temperature. If you apply coconut oil to hair that is dry or mostly dry when pores are mostly closed, it will sit on top of the hair and harden to it's solid form at room temperature resulting in the "crunchy" feeling.

see, i can use coconut oil on freshly washed damp hair or dry hair and my hair loves it just the same. when my hair is straight, best believe i use coconut oil on it. it's the ONLY thing that makes my hair continually feel silky.

hair crunchy from a product? on goes some coconut oil! id marry coconut oil if i could

 

[Embyra]

hair crunchy from a product? on goes some coconut oil! id marry coconut oil if i could

not if i beat you to it

 

[empressri]

not if i beat you to it

fine mrs coconut lol i'll be the mistress hahahaha

 

[MysteryMermaid]

interesting...i'll wait for more responses. btw i love, love, love me some CO!

----

I gotta call this one BS, and I don't mean beauty supply store either.

Coconut Oil definately penetrates the hair!

 

[Supervixen]

I personally did not understand why so many other women had problems with coconut oil.I bought Unrefined, Expeller-pressed coconut oil from Whole Foods. The first few times I've ever used Coconut Oil were my last two washes. After freshly co-washing and detangling my hair with conditioner. I cover all my soaking wet hair and scalp in coconut oil,let it sit while I wash the rest of my body, and then I washed out the excess oil. It has left my hair soft, pliable, and stronger. When your hair is wet, it expands and the pores of the strand are open it is during this time when coconut oil can absorb into the core of the hair strand. Inside of the hair is where coconut oil works. I've never had a "crunchy" feel, but I could understand how it can be crunchy. Pure, unrefined coconut oil is solid at room temperature. If you apply coconut oil to hair that is dry or mostly dry when pores are mostly closed, it will sit on top of the hair and harden to it's solid form at room temperature resulting in the "crunchy" feeling.

If I put coconut oil on my hair in the Chicago winter months and go outside, it freezes on my hair.

 

[Embyra]

fine mrs coconut lol i'll be the mistress hahahaha

 

[CurlyMoo]

Perhaps this is why I wasn't so impressed with CO. In the future I will use it as a pre-wash or as a deep conditioner with heat.

 

[tkj25]

"Coconut oil, being a triglyceride of lauric acid (principal fatty acid), has a high affinity for hair proteins and, because of its low molecular weight and straight linear chain, is able to penetrate inside the hair shaft."

quote from page one of the study. i read the pdf too, lol, like chaosbutterfly said above, either someone didn't read, or completely misinterpreted this study -- it concludes that coconut oil does penetrate.