Deep down, do you believe that certain hair traits are attributed to being mixed?

[bravenewgirl87]

Thank you. I was going to say the same thing. Slavery ended 146 years ago, not 500 years ago. I am 38 years old and my great grandparents were slaves - I think it's "new" to pretend like slavery is such ancient history. My great great grandfather was the offspring of a slave mother and slaveowner father. His mother was sold and he was raised by his father, taught to read and write, and became a veterinarian. Could my light skin, green eyes, and brown hair that turns red in the summer be a result of this mixing? Maybe, but there's so much about my entire family history that I don't know, that I don't make that assumption. Does my light skin and green eyes preclude me from being proud to be black? Or is it assumed that I'm pissed off and angry because I could be the result of a rape that happened over 100 years ago? If I went around telling everyone the very small amount I know about my family history they would think I want to to be anything other than black, but others here evidently think that I shouldn't claim my blackness because of how I look? Ridiculous. As far as hair is concerned, I have tight 4a curls, so maybe that makes me black enough to be down? erplexed

Why would it ever bother you that what others think about your lineage?

 

[bravenewgirl87]

Okay for those that don't believe two black parents can have a "light skinndedededed" baby what say you? This child isn't albino and neither parents are mixed.

How do you know they are not mixed. Where I come from, a person can look like every stereotype of Africa and have more white blood than a lighter-skinned black person. For example, let say you're berry-black and you produce with a white man. Odds are, your child will come out looking like Corinne Bailey Rae in terms of color. That child produces with another dark-skinned black person and their children do the same. Your offsprings would only be two generations removed from white blood so if they produce with someone with white blood, the above can happen.

 

[bravenewgirl87]

Umm hmm. I read the possible "explanations" too. They mentioned everything but the obvious. Somebody's lying either that woman, somebody's parents or grandparents.

I heard about this happening to a white couple but the woman later found out she had been adopted and her parents never told her. Her biological mother was biracial.

A lot of black people are desperately clinging to lies so they can feel more "black". You're black enough, you don't have to explain away your 3c hair, green eyes, etc. To be black is to be mixed race in this day and age.

 

[DDTexlaxed]

Sometimes it isn't always the case. I have many bi racial women in my family and some have loose textures and some have tighter textures than I do. This thread doesn't have to be malicious. The fact is if you take good care of your hair, it will grow and thrive. I know some mixed women with jacked up hair because they don't take proper care of their hair.

 

[mischka]

I don't think it's it. I am definitely baffled by the desperate means people are using to deny an OBVIOUS fact, but I think it's because for some reason people feel like admitting white + black results in looser hair implies that mixed girls are better than "regular" black girls. The flaw in this defense is that it also implies that looser hair is automatically "better" and thats the real issue people need to address.

 

[bravenewgirl87]

I don't think it's it. I am definitely baffled by the desperate means people are using to deny an OBVIOUS fact, but I think it's because for some reason people feel like admitting white + black results in looser hair implies that mixed girls are better than "regular" black girls. The flaw in this defense is that it also implies that looser hair is automatically "better" and thats the real issue people need to address.

I've been saying this one for the longest. When a pathology is tied to cultural beliefs and family its hard for an ordinary person to accept the truth. By refuting certain attitudes its like you are refuting denying your own people.

 

[shunemite]

But, you have yo admit, the people who don't fit the mold tend to be mixed. For example, you can clearly see the difference in the textures of a Somalians' hair and say a Sudanese. Somalis are afro-asiatic and their phenotype reflects very specific DNA. Sudanese have a very specific phenotype, too. There's nothing wrong with admitting that due to colonization and the propensity for colorism, black people's physical features have been "diluted" (for lack of better word).

Not all Somalians have type 3 hair! I did mention in my post that there are people who were mixed with Arabic and Asian blood due to slave trade. But, you will be surprised to find there are Sudanese pple with 3a hair and Somali pple with 4b hair. I'm not making it up. Read Ayaan Hirshi Ali's book "Infidel", she is a famous political worldwide Somalian, and she herself states in her book that she does not have 3c hair. She furthermore states that a lot of pple think that ALL Somalians have curly hair but that's not the case. I'm on both sides of the argument that there are people with all kinds of hair types in all groups.

So let me use your other example of colonization. Yes it existed, fairly recently, like 1880's. There are people such as my grandma whose parents were born BEFORE colonization and so they knew their own parents were not mixed. How do you explain type 3c hair in pple like that?

 

[otegwu]

This is a great thread, I always find it interesting when African Americans debate this topic over and over, its not really a big issue here in the UK as most (not all) black people you see here are 1st, or at the most 2nd generation, so are mainly straight off the boat from Africa or the Carrib. Majority of Black Africans here I see are type 4a-b...however Somalians/ Eritreans (north and east africans)...are often a different story looking anywhere from a type 2-3b.

When I do see women with looser textures 2b-3c...more then likey they are Carribean, and will tell me they have 'indian in them.

I do rememeber the first time I saw loose curls on an African, it was in Nigeria, I pointed it out a woman with amazingly beautify long curls and the most beautiful features...my mums instant response as I looked in awe....was "thats a fulani woman...different tribe to us", so I presume that was standard for them, however historically 'Fulani's' were often classified as 'Travellers'/ Nomadic, although thier origins are disputed, often mixed with north african and Arabic heritage

IMO Genetics play the biggest role in terms of hair texture, and being mixed..anywhere along the line is going to play a major part.

 

[shunemite]

How do you know they are not mixed. Where I come from, a person can look like every stereotype of Africa and have more white blood than a lighter-skinned black person.

Because they are a first generation African immigrant family, and colonization is fairly recent. If they were mixed, their parents or grandparents would probably be mixed or white and it would be a known fact. It's just not that likely that they are both mixed given recent history.

 

[shunemite]

awe....was "thats a fulani woman...different tribe to us", so I presume that was standard for them, however historically 'Fulani's' were often classified as 'Travellers'/ Nomadic, although thier origins are disputed, often mixed with north african and Arabic heritage

IMO Genetics play the biggest role in terms of hair texture, and being mixed..anywhere along the line is going to play a major part.

Grinning at the bolded, it's amazing how far the Nomads traveled. We have Somalians, Ethiopians, and Eritrians on the east coast, you have Fulani's on the west coast.

 

[SND411]

Why is it always "diluting black" and never the other way around?

 

[Solitude]

Because they are a first generation African immigrant family, and colonization is fairly recent. If they were mixed, their parents or grandparents would probably be mixed or white and it would be a known fact. It's just not that likely that they are both mixed given recent history.

Not all colonization is recent. There's historic colonization and modern colonization.

 

[Karmin]

Why is it always "diluting black" and never the other way around?

When it's the reverse it's called "muddying the waters" lol.

 

[Karmin]

Okay for those that don't believe two black parents can have a "light skinndedededed" baby what say you? This child isn't albino and neither parents are mixed.

That baby is albino I don't care what they say. She look sickly too

 

[mischka]

Because you dilute things with the lighter not the heavier component? You dilute coffee with milk, you don't dilute milk with coffee. You dilute oil with water, not the other way around. You dilute paint with ammonia, not the other way around. You dilute mud with water, not the other way around. Forever and ever and so on.

The irony in trying so hard not to imply internalized inferiority is that in ferociously denying obvious facts you telegraph your belief in them. Stating an obvious objective fact should not imply subconscious inferiority.

 

[SND411]

This is a great thread, I always find it interesting when African Americans debate this topic over and over, its not really a big issue here in the UK as most (not all) black people you see here are 1st, or at the most 2nd generation, so are mainly straight off the boat from Africa or the Carrib. Majority of Black Africans here I see are type 4a-b...however Somalians/ Eritreans (north and east africans)...are often a different story looking anywhere from a type 2-3b.

When I do see women with looser textures 2b-3c...more then likey they are Carribean, and will tell me they have 'indian in them.

I do rememeber the first time I saw loose curls on an African, it was in Nigeria, I pointed it out a woman with amazingly beautify long curls and the most beautiful features...my mums instant response as I looked in awe....was "thats a fulani woman...different tribe to us", so I presume that was standard for them, however historically 'Fulani's' were often classified as 'Travellers'/ Nomadic, although thier origins are disputed, often mixed with north african and Arabic heritage

IMO Genetics play the biggest role in terms of hair texture, and being mixed..anywhere along the line is going to play a major part.

That is a lie. Fulanis are genetically related and similar to other West African geoups with little admixture. You can see some of their traits in other West Agrican groups as well. Stop believing the colonial lie that Black Africans must be monolithic.

 

[SND411]

Because you dilute things with the lighter not the heavier component? You dilute coffee with milk, you don't dilute milk with coffee. You dilute oil with water, not the other way around. You dilute paint with ammonia, not the other way around. You dilute mud with water, not the other way around. Forever and ever and so on.

The irony in trying so hard not to imply internalized inferiority is that in ferociously denying obvious facts you telegraph your belief in them. Stating an obvious objective fact should not imply subconscious inferiority.

But here we are talking about hair no skin tone. How does kinky hair get "diluted"?

 

[mischka]

I refuse to argue semantics. That is a silly linguistics based argument, and I presume you know that.

 

[SND411]

I refuse to argue semantics. That is a silly linguistics based argument, and I presume you know that.

How is it silly? I think it should be something we should ask ourselves. Language and the words we choose to describe our experiences cannot be reduced to judt mete semantics. Why ARE so called "black features" other than skintone always the ones that are diluted?

 

[bravenewgirl87]

Not all Somalians have type 3 hair! I did mention in my post that there are people who were mixed with Arabic and Asian blood due to slave trade. But, you will be surprised to find there are Sudanese pple with 3a hair and Somali pple with 4b hair. I'm not making it up. Read Ayaan Hirshi Ali's book "Infidel", she is a famous political worldwide Somalian, and she herself states in her book that she does not have 3c hair. She furthermore states that a lot of pple think that ALL Somalians have curly hair but that's not the case. I'm on both sides of the argument that there are people with all kinds of hair types in all groups.

So let me use your other example of colonization. Yes it existed, fairly recently, like 1880's. There are people such as my grandma whose parents were born BEFORE colonization and so they knew their own parents were not mixed. How do you explain type 3c hair in pple like that?

No one is questioning whether or not Somalians can look like xyz or Sudanese can look like xyz. We've already established that due to the colonization of African and evolution there is no absolutes in phenotypes. I just used the two groups as examples.

 

[Mleah]

DNA testing answers a lot of questions. When in doubt swab it out.

 

[mischka]

How is it silly? I think it should be something we should ask ourselves. Language and the words we choose to describe our experiences cannot be reduced to judt mete semantics. Why ARE so called "black features" other than skintone always the ones that are diluted?

Girl bye. You gonna have to find another dummy to have this pretend-world conversation with.

 

[libertysince05]

unless someone invests the time and resources in scientifically studying this, it will all be conjecture.
so a dark person with lose curls is (or maybe accordig to some) mixed; what about the jewish with kinky hair? or the aborigines of autralasia, and other places?
this research is really needed...

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

unless someone invests the time and resources in scientifically studying this, it will all be conjecture.
so a dark person with lose curls is (or maybe accordig to some) mixed; what about the jewish with kinky hair? or the aborigines of autralasia, and other places?
this research is really needed...

aborigines have African ancestry

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1550859/Aborigines-came-out-of-Africa-study-shows.html

 

[MissSenegal]

My niece is mixed and she has mostly type 4 hair. I just don't see someone with looser curls and assume they must be mixed. That would be like assuming alk light skinned blacks are mixed cause if thats the case my grandmother has some explaining to do.

 

[Ms. Martina]

I am not really sure. I know in my family(entire family) we are all just as mixed as the next relative, but we vary in tones and etc( just like most AA families). Like the OP, I have noticed that the darker relatives have looser curl patterns and longggg hair. The light skinned ones usually have very tight curls (think type 5 xyz hair) and never really grow their hair past shoulder length...if that. They normally have dry looking hair too.

 

[Solitude]

unless someone invests the time and resources in scientifically studying this, it will all be conjecture.
so a dark person with lose curls is (or maybe accordig to some) mixed; what about the jewish with kinky hair? or the aborigines of autralasia, and other places?
this research is really needed...

This has been studied.....all the way back to Pangaea and the tectonic plates...you never heard of the theory that all humans originated from one place, migrated, the tectonic plates broke up, and different "races" developed different traits due to adaptation and natural selection based on where we ended up in the world?

This is not discussed much because of supremacy theories.

I just can't believe some people never heard of any of this. Edit: deleted part of my post - too far off topic.

 

[Almaz]

Yes I can agree with you on this and some of the lightest almost whitest black folks on youtube talking bout KILL WHITEY he DA DEBIL hahaha well in that case the Debil is written all over your face hahahahahaha I laugh everytime I see this and one of the worst guys have Green/bluish eyes talking bout blue eye debil hahahaha

Jealous of what?
To me, it sounds crazy. Why would anyone walk the earth feeling belittled because they carry a genetic trait that they cannot control? I know a lot of have this ignorant belief that lighter-skinned people are all products of slavery but that is FAR from being true. No one has to shout their lineage from the rooftops. You're not obliged to identify with any race at all, it's your life. But, you're just as black if you accept that many different factors made up all of the person you are, not just one.