"First Man" - Is this a Proper Title for a Man Whose Wife is a Pastor?

Discussion in 'Christian Fellowship' started by Shimmie, Mar 27, 2007.

  1. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    A few weeks ago I attended an evening service where our Pastor was the guest speaker. The Pastor of the church was female and in the Program her husband was listed as 'First Man."

    For some reason, this just messes with me. *long sigh* I dunno. :nono:

    It was worded like this.... "Pastor (her name) ............... and First Man (his name) ..............."

    Another Church that I was viewing on TV announced the leadership like this:

    "Pastor (her name)................. and her husband Associate Pastor (his name) ......................."

    Somehow, this wording is not giving the man his proper place in leadership. Call me old fashioned, but the man should always be titled as the leader and not his wife. There has to be a better way to present this. I know that we have many women in leadership but she should never be titled above her husband. This is not scriptual. The husband is the head of the wife. Period.

    So, how would you title this if this were your Church ministry?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts....;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2007
  2. Nice & Wavy

    Nice & Wavy Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I think they should word it as "Pastors ........!" Even though her role may be more 'pastoral', in the sense that she may be doing more preaching and counseling, her husband is still her covering and she and her husband are in ministry, together.
     
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  3. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    I'm so glad you replied. Gee whiz, I just feel so 'uneasy' about this.

    I don't ever want to see a man 'under' a woman. I just don't. It's not right. He leads at all times. It's like saying 'she's the boss and he's the toss...tossed to one side while she gets the recognitions.

    I like 'Pastors'........afterall, doesn't he at least pray or give a benediction or have some active responsibility in the Church?

    Thanks for hearing my vent... :lol: As always you understand me... Well you do. :yep: And that ain't easy, not at all. :nono: :lol:

    Love and blessings to you and stay Nice and Wavy...;)
     
  4. kbragg

    kbragg Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that's crazy! My mentor is a Christian business speaker and even she submits to her husband as the head as he is the head, the CEO and leader in the company and she is simply the "mouth pice" but he is the brains and leadership beihnd the whole program. To me that shows respect and reverence for her husband. The thing you posted looks belittling to the husband to me.:(
     
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  5. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    Thanks Lady K... ;) That's exactly how I felt as soon as I saw the front page of the program. My heart just 'sank' so to speak. She should not be looked up to 'above' her husband. It's just not right.

    Thanks again for your comments. ;)
     
  6. senimoni

    senimoni New Member

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    Is the husband a Pastor?
     
  7. alexstin

    alexstin Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard of "First Man" before. I don't like it. I don't go by "First Lady" though I'm married to a pastor so maybe I'm the wrong person to ask.:lol:
     
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  8. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    Thanks for responding Pastor Alexstin. :)

    I'm glad that this is up for discussion, for it does present a 'problem' in my view as honoring our husbands. I can fully understand a woman being called 'First Lady.' Afterall, she is the Lady of the House; his life and his heart, body and soul. No one else is called to this postion, but her.

    It is 'she' who upholds her husband in the ministry no matter what. It is she whom he can come to at anytime day or night and lay his heart upon hers without judgement nor rejection. She's the one who intecedes for his every need and bows down to worship God on his behalf during those times when he cannot go any further...for he IS the head and being the head of anything is not an easy task. The responsibilities are beyond that of any member of any congregation.

    My point is the wife has HER place and the Husband has HIS place. And "First Ladies' have a call that no one could ever match or succeed.

    Pastor... you are definitely your husband's "ONLY Lady" in every sense of the word... you truly are. It's NOT an easy call to be a Pastor's wife, but you are indeed called and you have been annointed for all that it calls upon you to do.

    Post Edited: From 'First Lady to ONLY Lady....
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2007
  9. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    :wave: Hi Senimoni:

    This is a very good question. :) From all indications, it appears that the 'women' in both cases have the title of Pastor and he does not. But even so, there has to be a following of the order, acknowledging the man as the head of the woman.

    The way that it has been presented, makes the husband appear as 'under' her leadership which is not good nor correct, in ministry or in the world's system. Men are leaders; that's God's order and should be the heart of the woman who stands beside him, not in front of him...

    I hope I'm making sense. :) Thanks Senimoni.
     
  10. PaperClip

    PaperClip New Member

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    Eh.... pretty much what everybody else said.... Hmmmm.... with regard to acknowledgment about the titles/functions, the title "First Man" does not work for the same reason that "First Lady" doesn't work for me: it implies that there are other ladies (my pastor's wife made it very clear when they first started pastoring that we do not refer to her as "first lady" for that very reason. She started off as "Sister", then she was "Minister" , then she went to "Co-Pastor", and then "Pastor" and now "Dr.".

    It would be helpful to know if the man/husband functions in the role of a pastor... so if he does not, then maybe his name should not be included on the documentation at all and then as the pastor gets up and sets the order, she makes it VERY CLEAR who her husband is and acknowledges his covering.

    And Dear Shimmie, I'll just say it for ya: the way that that program presented their names like that, it looks "HEN-PECKED" and from where I come from, that's um... well... yeah... ok.... The men take and have the lead. My pastor's wife says it like this (more for the home than the pulpit): he's the head, but I'm in charge.
     
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  11. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    Thanks Rehab.... :)

    I'm taking notice regarding the title "First Lady". I need to change my stance on using that term. My thought was as it's used in the White House. The other mentions you made make more sense (Pastor and Dr. - as she's earned her doctorate).

    Hey, if Hilary Clinton wins the election as President, does this make Bill "First Man".... :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry, couldn't resist. :)
     
  12. PaperClip

    PaperClip New Member

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    You make an interesting point about the potential origin of the term "first lady", etc. Goodness, our churches are one big (sometimes bad) mix of secular influences....

    I say just put who the man is: Husband to the Pastor, or Husband of the President, etc. (Shrug)
     
  13. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    Or in my case, "....She got a man....Yeah!!! :thumbsup: " :lol:
     
  14. Enchantmt

    Enchantmt Progress...not perfection Staff Member

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    I was actually wondering how he would be referred to also.
     
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  15. Nice & Wavy

    Nice & Wavy Well-Known Member

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    I do agree...the term "First lady" is not a great term, even though its not bad in itself.

    My husband and I are pastors. We were both ordained at the same time. Our gifts are different and we both do some things seperate, however he still is my covering and just because I'm a pastor, doesn't say that I have some type of charge over him....the order has to be clear!

    If the husband is not the pastor, but the wife is, I think it would be fair not to include him in the program at all, unless he is a speaking, and then I would include him in the program, but just his name, not a title.

    Maybe they just wanted to include him in some small way and someone came up with that bright idea to give him that title. He probably didn't like that title just as much as we don't like it!

    People are taking titles to literally though....Yes, we are to respect the person in their respective titles that God has placed them in, but when we start making up titles and such, there has to be a line drawn, somewhere.

    When I hear titles that are like: The very, very reverend, pastor, apostle, bishop of the most holy faith...those things just send crawlies up my spine, but it happens all the time.

    Well, gotta go for now....love you ladies!
     
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  16. victorious

    victorious Relaxed/4A/Fine/Thin/APL

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    Our pastor's wife cringes at that title too. She prefers "Sis."

    ---

    I've never heard of "First Man" either. Most of the women pastors I've heard of had a pastor or bishop as their husband.

    "First Man" Smith would be like "Adam" Smith in my way of thinking. :grin:
     
  17. senimoni

    senimoni New Member

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    I see what you are saying...but I think that she may put herself beneath her husband ...to me that doesn't equate to outsiders doing the same. I don't like the term "first man" just b/c it sounds odd but I don't agree with "bestowing" a title to a man that he hasn't earned...over his wife b/c she is submissive to him. I hope you follow what I'm saying re: how she views him as opposed to how outsiders/others should view/rank him.
     
  18. kbragg

    kbragg Well-Known Member

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    I see your point Senimoni, but you gotta admit, "First Man" just sounds sissy-fied!:lol: Give the man his signity my goodness!:lol:
     
  19. BlkHoneyLuv2U

    BlkHoneyLuv2U Active Member

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    Just a quick question, if Hillary Clinton is elected president (heaven forbid) wouldnt that make Bill first man? Would this be demeaning to him in the same way you all feel its demeaning for the pastors husband to be referred to as such. If you feel its demeaning for Bill to be referred to as such okay, if you feel its okay to refer to Bill as first man, WHY is it okay for him and not for the pastors husband. What makes the pastors husband special?
     
  20. Browndilocks

    Browndilocks Browndisha Brownie Sundae

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    I just think it sounds gay - inside or outside of the church. :look: But then again, I've never liked the "first lady" terminology in any arena - especially in church. Guess I'm the wrong person to ask...
     
  21. senimoni

    senimoni New Member

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    We are so [[HERE]] on that part...lol. I didn't want to go there...but since you did...yeah....totally HUD.
     
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  22. pebbles

    pebbles Putting out fires....

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    First man? LOL! I've never heard that before. I don't care for that title either. :lol:
     
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  23. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    Angels, you all are too much :lol: Oh Dear !

    Lady K (Bragg) ... "sissy-fied' - Girl, you are too much :rofl:

    Senimoni... I do 'see' your point if he has not been ordained as Pastor. BTW, what does 'HUD" mean? (I drew a huge blank. I'm already confused enough with this "First Man" issue, now 'HUD' has been added to my question box...:lol: ) Please clue me ... :lol: I'm still learning 'stuff'... ;).

    Pebbles and Enchantment... thanks for coming in...'clueless' :lol: just like me. (Love and Hugs to both of you).

    Browndilocks and ladydee36330... "Oh No :lol: --- you did not say it sounds 'gay' :lol: too cute, both of you. But Hillary ran the office when Bill was president... :rolleyes: Uh-huh...:yep: Somebody told me. ;)

    victorious... Your reply is what I have been thinking all along. In the 25 years that I've been 'churched' the husband was either Senior Pastor and Founder, Bishop or Apostle. That's why "First Man" threw me for such a loop. It does sound like a demontion to the man.

    Pastor 'Nice and Wavy' ;) and Pastor Alexstin... You make excellent points about the use of titles taken too literally.

    Relaxer Rehab... I agree, we have taken on too much of the world in the church...way too much.

    I'm hoping to hear from our brother BMWSS. He will surely give us a credible as well as a thought provoking response, for sure.

    In the meantime, for me personally, I feel that while it is honorable and powerful to see us as women on fire and in leadership in ministry, it is still a smoking gun, aimed at 'further' demoting our men in their authority in the Church and in the family where God has called and ordained them to be.

    Men lead and I don't believe that we should fall on the "Deborah' theory as justification. No matter where God has called and placed, we (proverbial 'we') must allow our men to lead.

    Power is intoxicating... oh yes! And to women just as much as it is to men. And it becomes addictive. Something else, it can also become competitive in marriages and it can even lead to high-mindedness which is a mindset that woman fall easily into....Especially when they feel threatened in a relationship, or neglected by their husbands.

    I'm not speaking of any one here...I'm speaking of the Church where women are bypassing their men and leaving them to lose their grip on the helm. God has called them to be His co-captains, at the 'Helm' -- not ours.

    For we are beautifully designed to be their helpmeet beyond suitable. It is I woman, who meets his needs as he steers the vessel which carries our lives as one. I am the neck who supports his head.

    Example... (In respect). I often feel badly for Pastor Randy White, for his wife Paula is a loose cannon. Granted, she is needed, her fire and all, but all too often she leaves Pastor Randy hanging in the wind.

    On the other hand, I have noticed how Juanita Bynum, 'steps back' and allows her husband, Bishop Thomas Weeks to lead. She holds her fire and allows him to be the smoking gun. It's no longer just her, it's both of them as one. Yet he allows her to flow in her annointing as the Holy Spirit wants to use her.

    They have an awesome book entitled, "Teach Me How to Love You". I received a message CD with the book and the testimony is one of the best that I've ever heard as to how brought these two and has KEPT them together. I want only the best for the two of them.

    Their marriage is one that I refuse to allow the enemy to destroy. My prayer is for each of your marriages as well...full of life eternal. Yes, for those of you yet single, even more yet, single you will not be for long. These marriage prayers are for you too...indeed. :yep:

    That's my ministry angels....'Marriage'. It's odd for a ministry gift such as this to be given to a 'single' woman, yet it's a burden and a ministry that God has given me. And I treasure it...for I treasure the love between man and wife. Honoring and respecting our men. To lift them up far above anyone and anything else, putting God first and foremost.

    Husbands are simply 'First' in our hearts and lives and our ONLY Man.

    Wives, as he sleeps...tonight and into the morning, kiss his eyes and love him. Love him for who and all that he is. Just love him and let him be the head that God has called him to be. Just love him. Man...yes his...but in our hearts, he will always be 'my baby'... :yep:

    This is my gift that I extend to each of you...Eternal Marriage Blessings to Wives and Wives-to-be. With all of my heart... :rosebud:
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2007
  24. Nice & Wavy

    Nice & Wavy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Shimmie. God Bless you.
     
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  25. kbragg

    kbragg Well-Known Member

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    :lachen: :lachen: :lachen: Well since you said it...AMEN!:lachen: When I hear first man I just get a visual of the man with a flowery apron on and a feather duster, looking like a total punk while his wife lord's over him. Poor, poor man...everybody gonna think he's an undercover:look:

    PS: Thank you Shimmie!;)
     
  26. GodsPromises

    GodsPromises Well-Known Member

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    As for the title "First Man" I have heard it and it has been used jokely amostest friends when a co-worker/friend's wife became pastor. Now the husband isn't a minister at all. Doesn't have or haven't accepted his call and is very happy in the role that he is in. How do you address that situation?

    As for the title " First Lady". First Ladies and churches are moving away from that and have started picking up the title " Leading Lady" which I like better because as the Pastor's wife you should be leading the other lady in how they should be. It is no longer about the dresses and the hats and sitting in the first row but it is more about working for the Lord in the roll that He has placed you in.

    I commend you Nice and Wavy and Alexstin for your call as Co-Pastor. I have just very recently accepted my call to the ministry and have talked to my husband and to our Pastor as my husband is the Assistant Pastor. When talking to both of them and was asked in what direction is your call I made it a point to point out that I have been called to be an evanlist and to exhort the people of God, not to Pastor. My husband has that call and I would help him in any way but I am not to be his Co-Pastor. I know this in my heart.
     
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  27. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    I like that "Leading Lady". As the word tells us that the women should lead the women and the men the men.

    Congratulations on the call that God has endowed upon you. I cannot think of a more honorable vessel to be God's Handmaiden. God bless both you and your husband and that the two of you are 'fitly' joined as one and peaceably as God sends you among those you are called to. The Spirit of the Lord not only rests upon you as one, but deep on the inside of you...your very being.

    No weapon formed against you shall prosper and you shall be hid under the wings of God's protection no matter where you are. Every need and every provision, has been set in order to meet you upon each Destination. You will have no need, no lack, no ruin.

    For the Spirit of the Lord has prepared a table for you in the presence of your enemies and you shall walk in the midst of them and their weapons shall dis-arm; become as non effect and you shall lie in perfect peace, knowing that wherever you are, your God, the All Mighty God is always there with you.

    In Jesus' name, Amen and Amen.
     
  28. Shimmie

    Shimmie "God is the Only Truth -- Period"

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    Lady K... behave yourself... :lachen: :lachen: :lachen:

    I wonder what he's cooking for dinner tonight...I'm hungry. :D
     
  29. GodsPromises

    GodsPromises Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Shimmie :D God is so good
     
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  30. PaperClip

    PaperClip New Member

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    Just wanted to chime in here briefly.... Interesting points re. the terms "first lady" and "leading lady".... But why is the church so reluctant to call people by their FUNCTION? A pastor's wife who is not a pastor is STILL FUNCTIONING in so many areas. I think the "lady" term does a disservice to these women who are in these unique positions as the wife of a pastor of a church. Ministry ain't no joke! :) Leading and loving God's people is more than a notion....

    If nothing else, the pastor's wife is first and foremost a "sister"... and/or as she matures, then she might become "Mother So and So".... Or if nothing else, BE CREATIVE! Before our pastor's wife began to advance in her functions, she was affectionately known as "Lady (first initial of her last name), like "Lady T".

    I just think in the 21st century, we (the body of Christ) should own and be inclusive and proud to embrase the diversity of giftings and roles, regardless of gender. It would be nice for our (male) leaders to be secure in their God-given position as the leaders and to allow the women to fully flow in their God-given functions, in proper order of course.
     

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