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Haiti gang wants $17M ransom for kidnapped American and Canadian missionaries, report says

yamilee21

Well-Known Member
They are Mennonites; a related sect that uses technology. Actual Amish wouldn’t travel by plane. But they’re still mostly uneducated racists. And there are other “American citizens” still being held captive, but they are of Haitian ancestry, so no one cares.

I doubt the missionaries will be killed. I would really like to know what the actual long-term plan was for whoever started arming these guys - is this part of the script to provoke a greater international reaction, or have the overlords completely lost control of the gangs?
 

Keen

Well-Known Member
I would really like to know what the actual long-term plan was for whoever started arming these guys - is this part of the script to provoke a greater international reaction, or have the overlords completely lost control of the gangs?
This did not happen overnight. From my understanding, politicians and upper class citizens who control the economy had been arming them for decades to do their dirty work. The gangs don’t need the politicians to supply them with guns and money anymore.

My theory: Haiti is not getting much cash foreign aid anymore. There’s no money to steal. People who used to fund theses gangs don’t have the same capacity to control the gangs. Now they are operating solo with no law enforcement with the manpower to stop them.
 

yamilee21

Well-Known Member
This did not happen overnight. From my understanding, politicians and upper class citizens who control the economy had been arming them for decades to do their dirty work. The gangs don’t need the politicians to supply them with guns and money anymore.

My theory: Haiti is not getting much cash foreign aid anymore. There’s no money to steal. People who used to fund theses gangs don’t have the same capacity to control the gangs. Now they are operating solo with no law enforcement with the manpower to stop them.
But in terms of targeting white foreigners, who were previously “off-limits” before… I really wonder whether the gang, having been “successful” in kidnapping a few European priests and nuns in the previous group kidnapping in May, deliberately went after these white missionaries in the hopes of getting even more money, all on their own; or whether this idea came from some oligarch overlord, whose ultimate goal is provoking a new international occupying force, which would likely mean contract$ and other benefit$ for them. Clearly these people at the top really didn’t think things through, because at some point, with enough guns and money, the gangs are going to turn on them too. As high as the walls are around the oligarchs’ homes, none of them have managed to cover their properties with an impenetrable dome.
 
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yamilee21

Well-Known Member
This is one of the craziest things that I have ever read. Political candidates collaborating with gang members, extortion taxes on goat herding and beauty shops, snatching up folks off the street and people just paying the ransom.
Two things would have to happen for the kidnapping to end, without a functioning government/police force: (1) the people in the gang controlled areas would have to stop collaborating with the gangs and stand up to them… which would get many of them killed, so that won’t happen - no matter how miserable people’s lives are, they still want to live; and (2) people would have to be willing to allow their kidnapped loved ones to die… which not only won’t happen, but would lead to entire families of the original victims also being kidnapped and killed.

Maybe 10, 15 years ago, it could have been stopped by people working together to stand against it, but at this point, any knucklehead with a gun can become a kidnapper. Some people with weapons have tried to fight back, but they are often outnumbered and killed anyway, since the kidnappers work in teams, and have much better guns.

Just as an aside though… “extortion taxes” aren’t unusual in the U.S. either. A relative who always had a couple of small businesses in Haiti immigrated to NYC, and set up a similar small business in the Bronx in the late 1960s. He lasted about 2 years before giving up, since he would not pay the local police for protection; he was shocked that this kind of thing happened here. During the crack epidemic, in my neighborhood it was easy to tell which businesses were “being protected” by the drug dealers - the other businesses would close down within less than 6 months.
 

Kanky

Well-Known Member
Two things would have to happen for the kidnapping to end, without a functioning government/police force: (1) the people in the gang controlled areas would have to stop collaborating with the gangs and stand up to them… which would get many of them killed, so that won’t happen - no matter how miserable people’s lives are, they still want to live; and (2) people would have to be willing to allow their kidnapped loved ones to die… which not only won’t happen, but would lead to entire families of the original victims also being kidnapped and killed.

Maybe 10, 15 years ago, it could have been stopped by people working together to stand against it, but at this point, any knucklehead with a gun can become a kidnapper. Some people with weapons have tried to fight back, but they are often outnumbered and killed anyway, since the kidnappers work in teams, and have much better guns.

Just as an aside though… “extortion taxes” aren’t unusual in the U.S. either. A relative who always had a couple of small businesses in Haiti immigrated to NYC, and set up a similar small business in the Bronx in the late 1960s. He lasted about 2 years before giving up, since he would not pay the local police for protection; he was shocked that this kind of thing happened here. During the crack epidemic, in my neighborhood it was easy to tell which businesses were “being protected” by the drug dealers - the other businesses would close down within less than 6 months.
The article says that the gang has passed around a price list with how much each type of business must pay and the charge per goat. :lachen: I’m sorry, but this is not the same thing.

ETA: It doesn’t seem like this problem is going to be solved. I think that after the US gets these missionaries back they need to let it be known that you are on your own if you go there and get kidnapped or whatever. I keep reading articles about people who want to put troops on ground. It would be a waste of time and money and end up like Afghanistan. The people who live there have to decide to fix the problem on their own. If they can’t or won’t fix it then it can’t be fixed.
 
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Keen

Well-Known Member
The article says that the gang has passed around a price list with how much each type of business must pay and the charge per goat.
This price list doesn’t sound real. Getting paid in goat is not common in Haiti, especially where gangs operate.
 

yamilee21

Well-Known Member
The article says that the gang has passed around a price list with how much each type of business must pay and the charge per goat. :lachen: I’m sorry, but this is not the same thing.
I am not speaking in defense of these monstrous gang members, who have victimized family members, friends and me, however, if goats (livestock) are one’s business, and they are imposing “taxes” on businesses, then it makes sense to tax per goat. Since it does sound rather ridiculous though, I looked this topic up, in various languages so I would get results from different locations. Turns out paying taxes per livestock head is a real thing in some developed countries, including some states within the U.S.,… which makes the situation in Haiti even crazier, because the government has barely been able to collect any taxes in recent years, but these criminals are able to figure out a formula to “tax” livestock.

But who knows what the truth is; if the reporters are using translators, they may be getting told sarcasm or exaggerations that they misunderstand… or even if they understand, they may be edited for a “better story,” lacking in nuance.
 

NaturalEnigma

Well-Known Member
Wow, they still didn’t capture these kidnappers and set the captive free. This is crazy. Are they still even alive?
 

Black Ambrosia

Well-Known Member
Are any of these people black? No one deserves this but their lack of melanin (my assumption) and the poor decision making that led them to take young kids is tempering my sympathy.
 

Theresamonet

Well-Known Member
This is one of the craziest things that I have ever read. Political candidates collaborating with gang members, extortion taxes on goat herding and beauty shops, snatching up folks off the street and people just paying the ransom.


Terrible… Haiti needs a Don Corleone to take out their Don Fanucci.
 

yamilee21

Well-Known Member
There are people saying that it is a hoax; it’s such a large group to be held so long, which is unusual for Haitian kidnappers. But more importantly, people are wondering why haven’t we learned their names, why aren’t their family members on media pleading for their release, why isn’t social media bombarded with their pictures?

Honestly, I have thought the same. For the group that was kidnapped on the way to a priest’s installation mass, the names were known and publicized, etc. Same kidnappers, so this looks more suspicious.
 
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