How will they explain away the rapture?

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
good to see you too LucieLoo12, all is well I pray the same is with you.

Yes I understand. But their is a "Rapture" doctrine that states that God will take away his people before the tribulation period begins and leave everyone else here .Thats not biblical. Not sure what of what "Rapture" is being discussed here, but that is the only one I am familiar with.

@Iwanthealthyhair67 Good to see you sis! :grin: How have you been?
 

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
it sounds like we are saying the same thing, but not saying the same thing (if that makes sense)...


LucieLoo12 MrsHaseeb - would you like to expand, I'm not trying to jump to conclusions about what I think you're saying and agreeing with, I want to understand.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
it sounds like we are saying the same thing, but not saying the same thing (if that makes sense)...

LucieLoo12 MrsHaseeb - would you like to expand, I'm not trying to jump to conclusions about what I think you're saying and agreeing with, I want to understand.

Hey lady :) Gonna have to type this up on the computer because I'm going to go into detail about why I believe the rapture doctrine as taught today to be false.
 

LucieLoo12

Well-Known Member
it sounds like we are saying the same thing, but not saying the same thing (if that makes sense)...


@LucieLoo12 @MrsHaseeb - would you like to expand, I'm not trying to jump to conclusions about what I think you're saying and agreeing with, I want to understand.


No problem.

I don't agree with the being caught up with Christ and the world is still "going on". (if that makes sense lol). I believe that Christians will remain on earth until the day of Jesus Christ. I believe some believe that when persecution of the church arises, Christ will take us away. The tribulation period is here now. We will be here during it.

The bible says we are not called unto wrath. Persecution and tribulation is not the wrath of God. it comes with the territory of being a Christian. The bible says all who live godly will suffer persecution..


ETA, so when people say we will be caught up (and yes the bible says caught up), but when they are referencing it, they are saying caught up BEFORE tribulation. And that's not biblical. You can't build a hold doctrine around one scripture. But line upon line, precept against precept
 
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Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
Hey lady :) Gonna have to type this up on the computer because I'm going to go into detail about why I believe the rapture doctrine as taught today to be false.


Hey Sis,

Please include Daniel, the difference between rapture, second coming and tribulation ...looking forward to your posts.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
Hi ladies. Now I know the rapture subject is… sensitive. Let me say in advance that this post is simply to address why I believe the pre-tribulation rapture to be false and is not addressed to anyone in particular. I will make this as short as possible. I believe the Lord showed me that the reason for the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is fear and selfishness. Fear of the end-times has been plaguing a lot of believers and they somehow take comfort in feeling like they will not be here for all that’s coming upon the world. I think the misunderstanding for some comes in because the Bible says we have not been appointed to wrath. The wrath being referred to there is the eternal wrath of God, not the suffering and tribulation of this world. In fact, Jesus promised that we would have tribulation in this world (John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.). This is confirmed (Revelation 2:7 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.). The Bible lets us know that believers will indeed be here for the tribulation period ( Daniel 7:25 - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and ****shall wear out the saints of the most High,**** and think to change times and laws: and ****they shall be given into his hand**** until a time and times and the dividing of time.) ( Revelation 13:7 - And it was given unto him to ****make war with the saints, AND TO OVERCOME THEM: **** and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.) How will these things happen if there is really going to be a pre-tribulation rapture? We are exempt from God’s wrath, not the devil’s (Revelation 12: 9, 11-12 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.). Revelation also makes it plain that there will be martyrs for the faith in the end time. Don’t be mistaken, it’s time to pray and stop loving our lives in this world because we are staring down the barrel of this thing right now. Christians have been going through tribulation since the birth of the Ekklesia. Believers are getting killed right now is Muslim countries, butchered like animals. Why isn’t God rapturing them away? Now, please don’t be offended because of what I’m about to say. But the reason I believe selfishness to be a driving force behind the pre-trib rapture lie is because when we study the dynamics of the book of Acts, the Ekklesia grew by leaps and bounds during tribulation. The tribulation is what’s going to awaken the sleeping beauty known as the Church and distinguish the real saint from the play actor. This is where you’re going to see that real harvest come in because the body of Christ will be in stark contrast to the false religious system set up today that is existing and calling itself the “Church”. See Jesus said in Matthew to the apostles (Matthew 10:23 - But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.). Persecution and tribulation happened for the Gospel to really be spread and it was also for the believers to really become bold and go out and evangelize the lost. This idea of inviting people to church to be saved is a lie… We are going back to the book of Acts to be baptizing people wherever we can find water (bath tubs, lakes, pools, etc) and getting them saved everywhere because the comfort of theatre style seating in a church building is about to be over. Please understand and know this people… the freedoms we see now will be short lived when the end time sequences start. I believe the tribulation period is going to be a time when we see the true glory of God and go back to His supernatural provision (since we will not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast). This is going to be when we see these young people come in and be filled with the power of the Holy Ghost with all His gifts and the body of Christ will stand up in unity as the world system and the false religious system (the beast and the harlot) stand up against Christ. I believe being “caught up” is referring to when the last Gentile is saved and possibly even the remnant of Jews are grafted in and Christ makes his appearance on this earth for the millennial reign. It’s time to expunge ourselves of fear saints because this is about to happen and it’s going to be ugly. It’s better to be prepared for this and it doesn’t happen than to not be prepared and end up taking the mark to save your life in this world. IF there is going to be a rapture at all, I believe it will happen at the mid-point, the 3.5 year mark. Notice Matthew 24 begins talking about the church and there is a shift that takes place to the Jews. Also, I do not believe the saints will be here when the vials of God’s wrath begin to be poured out. That is what the saints are not appointed to. The devil IS going to wear us out. Let’s be praying for grace and Holy Ghost power right now.

***This is not to say I know and understand everything about what God is going to do in the end times but I do believe the Bible makes it plain enough for us to know we better be ready to fill up the sufferings of Christ because the world is standing against Jesus Christ right now and when the real body of Christ, the Ekklesia arises, we will be hated and severely persecuted.
 
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momi

Well-Known Member
Hi ladies. Now I know the rapture subject is… sensitive. Let me say in advance that this post is simply to address why I believe the pre-tribulation rapture to be false and is not addressed to anyone in particular. I will make this as short as possible. I believe the Lord showed me that the reason for the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is fear and selfishness. Fear of the end-times has been plaguing a lot of believers and they somehow take comfort in feeling like they will not be here for all that’s coming upon the world. I think the misunderstanding for some comes in because the Bible says we have not been appointed to wrath. The wrath being referred to there is the eternal wrath of God, not the suffering and tribulation of this world. In fact, Jesus promised that we would have tribulation in this world (John 16:33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.). This is confirmed (Revelation 2:7 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.). The Bible lets us know that believers will indeed be here for the tribulation period ( Daniel 7:25 - And he shall speak great words against the most High, and ****shall wear out the saints of the most High,**** and think to change times and laws: and ****they shall be given into his hand**** until a time and times and the dividing of time.) ( Revelation 13:7 - And it was given unto him to ****make war with the saints, AND TO OVERCOME THEM: **** and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.) How will these things happen if there is really going to be a pre-tribulation rapture? We are exempt from God’s wrath, not the devil’s (Revelation 12: 9, 11-12 - And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.). Revelation also makes it plain that there will be martyrs for the faith in the end time. Don’t be mistaken, it’s time to pray and stop loving our lives in this world because we are staring down the barrel of this thing right now. Christians have been going through tribulation since the birth of the Ekklesia. Believers are getting killed right now is Muslim countries, butchered like animals. Why isn’t God rapturing them away? Now, please don’t be offended because of what I’m about to say. But the reason I believe selfishness to be a driving force behind the pre-trib rapture lie is because when we study the dynamics of the book of Acts, the Ekklesia grew by leaps and bounds during tribulation. The tribulation is what’s going to awaken the sleeping beauty known as the Church and distinguish the real saint from the play actor. This is where you’re going to see that real harvest come in because the body of Christ will be in stark contrast to the false religious system set up today that is existing and calling itself the “Church”. See Jesus said in Matthew to the apostles (Matthew 10:23 - But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.). Persecution and tribulation happened for the Gospel to really be spread and it was also for the believers to really become bold and go out and evangelize the lost. This idea of inviting people to church to be saved is a lie… We are going back to the book of Acts to be baptizing people wherever we can find water (bath tubs, lakes, pools, etc) and getting them saved everywhere because the comfort of theatre style seating in a church building is about to be over. Please understand and know this people… the freedoms we see now will be short lived when the end time sequences start. I believe the tribulation period is going to be a time when we see the true glory of God and go back to His supernatural provision (since we will not be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast). This is going to be when we see these young people come in and be filled with the power of the Holy Ghost with all His gifts and the body of Christ will stand up in unity as the world system and the false religious system (the beast and the harlot) stand up against Christ. I believe being “caught up” is referring to when the last Gentile is saved and possibly even the remnant of Jews are grafted in and Christ makes his appearance on this earth for the millennial reign. It’s time to expunge ourselves of fear saints because this is about to happen and it’s going to be ugly. It’s better to be prepared for this and it doesn’t happen than to not be prepared and end up taking the mark to save your life in this world. IF there is going to be a rapture at all, I believe it will happen at the mid-point, the 3.5 year mark. Notice Matthew 24 begins talking about the church and there is a shift that takes place to the Jews. Also, I do not believe the saints will be here when the vials of God’s wrath begin to be poured out. That is what the saints are not appointed to. The devil IS going to wear us out. Let’s be praying for grace and Holy Ghost power right now.

***This is not to say I know and understand everything about what God is going to do in the end times but I do believe the Bible makes it plain enough for us to know we better be ready to fill up the sufferings of Christ because the world is standing against Jesus Christ right now and when the real body of Christ, the Ekklesia arises, we will be hated and severely persecuted.

Thanks MrsHaseeb... I will reply later :Rose:
 

Iwanthealthyhair67

Well-Known Member
This is the name of my church and the exact way that it is spelled...you wont believe how people try to correct me when say the name and seeing it written costs confusion to believer and non believers alike.

***This is not to say I know and understand everything about what God is going to do in the end times but I do believe the Bible makes it plain enough for us to know we better be ready to fill up the sufferings of Christ because the world is standing against Jesus Christ right now and when the real body of Christ, the Ekklesia arises, we will be hated and severely persecuted.
 

AtlantaJJ

Well-Known Member
This is the name of my church and the exact way that it is spelled...you wont believe how people try to correct me when say the name and seeing it written costs confusion to believer and non believers alike.

I had to Google the word. I learn so much in this forum. :yep:
 

JaneBond007

New Member
The scripture ... (I Thess. 4:18) is not biblical?

To be suddenly caught up and taken away to meet the Lord in the clouds sounds like a rapture ...


In the sense that the millennia of peace is here now. Christ is already reigning on the earth...in the hearts of men. Being taken up and meeting the L-rd refers to the time when the Messiah comes in glory. I believe that the present and common belief about rapture or being taken up was manmade in the 1800's. That it is not "biblical" means that it is not an accurate description. In other words, there are those of us who know that millions will not be taken up and then the anti-christ taking over. For my own church, there have been many anti-christs. There is one anti-christ who will be worse than any other, for sure. I don't see the scripture as unbiblical, just that the interpretation of it was based on a false interpretation made in the 1800's. I realize that many will scoff at this...but I'm just offering an opinion on the question.
 

LucieLoo12

Well-Known Member
In the sense that the millennia of peace is here now. Christ is already reigning on the earth...in the hearts of men. Being taken up and meeting the L-rd refers to the time when the Messiah comes in glory. I believe that the present and common belief about rapture or being taken up was manmade in the 1800's. That it is not "biblical" means that it is not an accurate description. In other words, there are those of us who know that millions will not be taken up and then the anti-christ taking over. For my own church, there have been many anti-christs. There is one anti-christ who will be worse than any other, for sure. I don't see the scripture as unbiblical, just that the interpretation of it was based on a false interpretation made in the 1800's. I realize that many will scoff at this...but I'm just offering an opinion on the question.




JaneBond007


This was worded beautifully :yep:. People can be so focused one one particular anti-christ but there has been many anti-christs in the world and still are.


1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.



And we have to make sure we our selves are not an anti-christ:

  1. 1 John 2:22
    Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
  1. 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
JaneBond007

This was worded beautifully :yep:. People can be so focused one one particular anti-christ but there has been many anti-christs in the world and still are.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

And we have to make sure we our selves are not an anti-christ:


[*]1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

[*]2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Correct sis. You're absolutely right. There are *many* anti-Christs, but there will definitely be one final, the man of sin described in Thessalonians.
 

momi

Well-Known Member
No problem.

I don't agree with the being caught up with Christ and the world is still "going on". (if that makes sense lol). I believe that Christians will remain on earth until the day of Jesus Christ. I believe some believe that when persecution of the church arises, Christ will take us away. The tribulation period is here now. We will be here during it.

The bible says we are not called unto wrath. Persecution and tribulation is not the wrath of God. it comes with the territory of being a Christian. The bible says all who live godly will suffer persecution..


ETA, so when people say we will be caught up (and yes the bible says caught up), but when they are referencing it, they are saying caught up BEFORE tribulation. And that's not biblical. You can't build a hold doctrine around one scripture. But line upon line, precept against precept

Hi LucieLoo12

The rapture teachings are not built upon one scripture alone. As I mentioned upthread I understand there are different views on the validity of rapture teachings...

I was confused for quite some time, because theologians that I highly respect were on both sides of the spectrum. Yes my end conclusion is that there will be a rapture of believers prior to the 7 year tribulation.

Christians are going through persecution currently yes, but the tribulation period will be marked with the unmistakable judgment of God with visible signs and wonders and will be experienced by the entire world... so I wouldn't compare current troubles with the type of tribulation the world will see in those days. No I don't believe the church will be raptured just because of persecution - if that were the case the early church would have been the first and last generation of believers. :nono:

At the end of the church age - I believe The Lord will begin to deal directly with the Jews according to Romans. He will continue to do this until the number He has ordained to complete the church has come in. (Romans 11:25) (Revelations 4:1). Then the rapture will happen.
 

MrsHaseeb

Well-Known Member
Hi LucieLoo12

The rapture teachings are not built upon one scripture alone. As I mentioned upthread I understand there are different views on the validity of rapture teachings...

I was confused for quite some time, because theologians that I highly respect were on both sides of the spectrum. Yes my end conclusion is that there will be a rapture of believers prior to the 7 year tribulation.

Christians are going through persecution currently yes, but the tribulation period will be marked with the unmistakable judgment of God with visible signs and wonders and will be experienced by the entire world... so I wouldn't compare current troubles with the type of tribulation the world will see in those days. No I don't believe the church will be raptured just because of persecution - if that were the case the early church would have been the first and last generation of believers. :nono:

At the end of the church age - I believe The Lord will begin to deal directly with the Jews according to Romans. He will continue to do this until the number He has ordained to complete the church has come in. (Romans 11:25) (Revelations 4:1). Then the rapture will happen.

Good info momi.
 

HWAY

Well-Known Member
I've been taught by those who believe and those who don't believe in the rapture. The teachings I learned on the end times prophecies were so unbiblical, I still hesitate to study this area.

I pray I will be found in God's favor because I know I am His child.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
I've been taught by those who believe and those who don't believe in the rapture. The teachings I learned on the end times prophecies were so unbiblical, I still hesitate to study this area.

I pray I will be found in God's favor because I know I am His child.

would love to help you with that. I am heading out to the Woman of Faith Concert. but I have a some questions.
 

blazingthru

Well-Known Member
this topic comes up and it has been answered again and again.

But honestly, I am interested in this 7 years. I have searched and searched for this 7 years and you know its no where in the bible, Its truly is a man made teaching, but I challenge anyone to prove it. Not for argument but because so many believe it yet there is no foundation for it. So one pastor told me that its in Daniel well I read it and still didn't find it.

But my next question can we transfer time? well I really do not think so, but lets let the bible be our example was time ever transferred.
 

Kalani

Well-Known Member
To answer the original question. My vote is for alien abduction. :lol:


Seriously though, through many years of study and listening to many different teachings, I believe in a pre-trib rapture.
 

momi

Well-Known Member
Update:

Upthread I mentioned I movie I planned to purchase Sunday Morning Rapture. I bought that one and two more to preview for a movie night at my church.


Sunday Morning Rapture was a valiant effort - it was based on people's reaction after being left behind. It was decent - but there were a few scenes that I didn't feel comfortable showing at church. Also, although it highlighted the emotional side - I personally felt more attention could have been given to scriptures that supported their (mine too) position.

The second movie was Moment After http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UNXS68/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Even though it seemed to have been filmed a few years ago and the technology featured in the film was outdated. It was very timely. I was sitting there the entire time thinking - "This is entirely plausible" and those of us who are paying attention probably already feel the birth pangs. I highly recommend this movie.
 

momi

Well-Known Member
To answer the original question. My vote is for alien abduction. :lol:


Seriously though, through many years of study and listening to many different teachings, I believe in a pre-trib rapture.

You know what - I completely agree. Aliens or a Zombie attack - most likely aliens. :yep:
 
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