I'm confused about my friends pre-marital tendancies

[LondonDiva]

My friend is a born again Christian, who is abstaining from sex with her fiancee until they marry next summer 2006. They've never had an intimate relationship, they are both Christians. Now my friend has stressed before that co-habiting was also a big no no for her due to her Christian beliefs, which she explained to me and I totally understood.

So fast forward to today. We go out to London Fashion Week, I drop her home to change so we can all go out and get a bite to eat. Her fiancee comes to her house (she lives with her mother, 2 sisters, neice and her sisters Bf) and he opens the door with his own key. I think, funny, then think no more of it. Ok we end up briefly talking about the movie the Passion of the Christ over dinner and that she has it, but mentions over dinner that she knows she needs to fix up and that's one of the reasons she hasn't watched it yet, because she knows the movie is going to make her realise and question a few things about her relationship with God and what she needs to do. I'm thinking to myself, ok we are not all free from sin, but she leads a pretty good Christian life or so I thought so why is she trippin over it. So I drop her home and me and her other sister (who doesn't live with her have to pick up our bags of shopping which she left in her room), and she says something to the effect of, she needs to be quiet otherwise she will wake up "G". And I'm like what he sleeps over? IN YOUR BED!? This explains the key, the slippers being left, him coming in and out of her room and rummaging through things knowing where everything was, it all made sense. I then say "I thought it was against your principles and religion to co-habit before you are married", so she tries to tell me about her practising restraint etc, and was surprised I didn't know. I'm like "girl I don't ask about your personal business pertaining to him, and anyway I know you are against sex before marriage and living together before marriage, so what's to talk about."

It's to the point where she had a single bed in her room and now has a double. I saw the double and commented earlier today, but didn't put 2 and 2 together because as far as I was concerned, missy was against that. If you go to the extremes of moving a single bed out of your room and add a double you know exactly what you are doing. It's not like he misses his bus and has to stay over. Dude practicaly lives there with the Waltons.

I'll be totally honest. I'm not a born again Christian, I don't go to church, I've been celebate for over 2 years now and plan to abstain until I'm married. I Love and respect the Lord and all his teachings and try to lead the best life possible in his eyes. Aside from that I know I'm not perfect, and I know neither is she.

But today I walked away from my friends house feeling EXTREMELY dissapointed in her. This is the second time in a year she has compromised her religious beliefs since being with a man, and it's beginning to annoy me. For example, she always said that for her being with a Christian man was a must. Her ex wasn't Christian when she was, but claimed he was a Catholic, as he had been baptised a Catholic (which was good enough for her), who didn't even go to church or lead a remotely religious lifestyle. When I said to her but he's not even practising, she said that he 's still Christian as he had been baptised into the faith.....Yeah as a baby. An excuse to justify her being with him after she broke her vow of celibacy which was so important to her.

I don't even know what I'm expecting to become of my post, whether I'm looking for some type of answer, is she literally BS'ing and trying to cover her tracks cause she knows she blatantly doing something wrong against her religion, or I'm so peeved that I just need to vent. I know she's not holier than thou, but she talks a good game, and doesn't play by the same rules. When I question her about her original stand on something which she's totally against in the beginning she comes up with an excuse. Maybe I'm pi**ed because she's trying to treat me like some idiot. Don't try to tell me that co-habiting before marriage in God's eyes is wrong, then backtrack and say Oh he sleeps in my bed but we don't do anything. Co-habiting is co-habiting. Doesn't she know that God is always watching.

 

[Poohbear]

I feel what you are saying. It's like she's being a hypocrite. From the story you just told, it sounds like certain situations with guys cause her to go against her beliefs. I bet it has you wondering if she's sticking to her sex 'til marriage belief. Maybe she is putting other things such as her fiance before God. She might be lacking in her relationship with God as a Christian. That's the only way I can see why she is going against some of her beliefs.

 

[pebbles]

LD, let me tell you, as disappointed as you are in your friend, I want you to understand that she is precisely the type of person that Jesus laid down His life on the cross for. Sins of all types were nailed to the cross with Him: fornication, murder, stealing, lying, hypocrisy. . . you name it, Jesus came to save us from it.

Christians are all sinners. The bible says that we all sin and fall short of the Glory of God-Romans 3:23. Sometimes I think that people expect those who call themselves Christians to be perfect. But if we ever could have been perfect, Jesus would not have had to die to deliver us from our sins. The bible could have ended with the Old Testament and that would have been the end of it. Come to think of it, even the Old Testament would have been a moot point.

I'm telling you, don't hold any Christian up to that high a standard. You will be disappointed. Yes, those of us who profess to be serious about our walk with Jesus are called to live a holy life, but we stumble and fall sometimes. We are called to conduct ourselves in a manner that will not cause our brother to fall, but it happens. If you rely on someone else's walk with Christ to bring you to an understanding of the goodness of Jesus, you'll never come to the Lord. Remember, don't hold anyone up. Not a pastor, a friend, family, me, no-one! We are all bound to do something to disappoint you. Don't look to us who are sinful and imperfect. Instead, look up to the perfection and mercy of our Lord, Christ Jesus.

Lastly, the next time you talk to your friend, remind her that the Lord's prayer says: "...and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil..." That means, "Lord, don't even let me get into a situation that I'll have to struggle out of." some Christians have a habit of praying God to sustain them once they've already fallen into sin, and He can do it. But what we should be doing, is avoiding finding ourselves in those situations to begin with. Prevent it. What she's doing is tempting herself and him unreasonably and unwisely. She does not have to practice celibacy or test their endurance in that manner. She's playing house too early.

At this point, I'm hard pressed to believe that they are not sleeping together, regardless of what she says. Two people who are sexually attracted to each other, cannot sleep in a bed together night after night and expect nothing to happen. Come on, now. God takes no pleasure in this, especially since her behavior is causing you to feel the way you do. I also believe that if she were very serious about her walk with Jesus, she wouldn't even feel comfortable doing what she's doing. She's acting as one who's in a back-slidden state.

I hope I was able to make you feel even a little bit better about this situation. Call her out on her behavior. The spirit of the Lord will convict her. She may not be willing to acknowledge it, but God will speak to her heart. What she chooses to do at that point is on her, but let the Lord deal with her. He will.

Be blessed, sweetie!

 

[BLESSED1]

PREACH ON PEBBLES!!! Very well put I was just thinking about the whole co-habiting situation, as my neighbor/colleague goes to my church but has been living with her bf for a couple of years, no talks of marriage. I always raise my eyebrows when I see her, but I know that's wrong since it's not my job to judge but I always want to say something to her about that even though it's none of my business....

 

[pebbles]

PREACH ON PEBBLES!!! Very well put I was just thinking about the whole co-habiting situation, as my neighbor/colleague goes to my church but has been living with her bf for a couple of years, no talks of marriage. I always raise my eyebrows when I see her, but I know that's wrong since it's not my job to judge but I always want to say something to her about that even though it's none of my business....

You are not judging. It has become so politically incorrect to point out sin, that the first thing people do if you say anything about the things they do that aren't right is accuse you of being judgemental.

Proverbs 27:5-6 says: "Better is open rebuke than love that is concealed.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy."

The key is in the attitude and approach of the one rebuking. That makes the difference between judging, and pointing out in love, something that is being done by a friend that is not pleasing in the sight of God. If the person is wise, they will appreciate you coming to them with the things they are doing that aren't right.

 

[BLESSED1]

I feel you Pebs, you are always so on point with advice! I have casually mentioned it before, when I found out that she was moving into the apartment next to me I was like oh is _____ moving in too or did he finally find his own place, and she was like no, he's moving in. And I laughed while saying you know God doesn't like that shacking up stuff and she says whatever, I'm only paying half of the rent. I was like yeah okay I'm leaving that one alone.....she's kind of stubborn

 

[Poohbear]

You are not judging. It has become so politically incorrect to point out sin, that the first thing people do if you say anything about the things they do that aren't right is accuse you of being judgemental.

Proverbs 27:5-6 says: "Better is open rebuke than love that is concealed.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy."

The key is in the attitude and approach of the one rebuking. That makes the difference between judging, and pointing out in love, something that is being done by a friend that is not pleasing in the sight of God. If the person is wise, they will appreciate you coming to them with the things they are doing that aren't right.

I agree!!!!

 

[pebbles]

I feel you Pebs, you are always so on point with advice! I have casually mentioned it before, when I found out that she was moving into the apartment next to me I was like oh is _____ moving in too or did he finally find his own place, and she was like no, he's moving in. And I laughed while saying you know God doesn't like that shacking up stuff and she says whatever, I'm only paying half of the rent. I was like yeah okay I'm leaving that one alone.....she's kind of stubborn

I completely agree with you on this. You did what you had to do, and now the rest is up to her. It's not about beating people up with the truth. You say it as nicely as you can, then let her ponder on it, if she's of a mind to.

 

[Honeyhips]

She has obviously compromised some of her beliefs, and is lying to herself about it. I can't explain why people do that, anymore than they can. I know when I was having sex, I left the church. Didn't make sense for me to be there. Other people don't behave the same way. I know a girl who was serving in the Church and she was sleeping around. She knew she was wrong. But we didn't judge her, just gave her some tools to realize where she was, helped her get out and prayed for her. Sin and compromise are slippery slopes, and once you get in, it can be hard to get out. Especially if God hardens your heart.

What was your point in telling the story? Are you going to be praying for her? Or just talking about how she is a hypocrite? I'm not trying to be a smart ***, I want to know what your intentions were with this post. Are you disappointed in yourself for putting her on a pedastel and she has fallen down? Why don't you ask her or tell her point blank to stop lying to herself?

 

[sithembile]

Whilst we as Christians are not perfect, if we must realise that when we publicly profess our faith, we need to ensure that our lives are consistent with our talk. Your friend has fallen into sin, and I think that rather than covering it up with excuses, she should admit that she has fallen. I'm not saying it is easy to do that. But when I was backslidden and sleeping with my ex, I didn't pretend that it was somehow acceptable, I knew it was wrong. I'd just tell people that I was a believer but that I saw struggling with sexual sin, I wasn't justifying it because there was no justification. If I try to make excuses, I'm telling other people that it is ok sin.

 

[BLESSED1]

She has obviously compromised some of her beliefs, and is lying to herself about it. I can't explain why people do that, anymore than they can. I know when I was having sex, I left the church. Didn't make sense for me to be there. Other people don't behave the same way. I know a girl who was serving in the Church and she was sleeping around. She knew she was wrong. But we didn't judge her, just gave her some tools to realize where she was, helped her get out and prayed for her. Sin and compromise are slippery slopes, and once you get in, it can be hard to get out. Especially if God hardens your heart.

What was your point in telling the story? Are you going to be praying for her? Or just talking about how she is a hypocrite? I'm not trying to be a smart ***, I want to know what your intentions were with this post. Are you disappointed in yourself for putting her on a pedastel and she has fallen down? Why don't you ask her or tell her point blank to stop lying to herself?

You didn't specify whether you were talking to me or LD, but I'll answer for myself anyway....it was to get advice on the situation, and I feel I got great advice from Pebbles

 

[Honeyhips]

I wasn't talking to you at all. why would you think that?

You didn't specify whether you were talking to me or LD, but I'll answer for myself anyway....it was to get advice on the situation, and I feel I got great advice from Pebbles

 

[AnnDriena_]

I think I know why she was telling her story because it's the same way with some of the friends I've had to let go. It's to vent and see if you're crazy, too righteous, high minded, wrong and every other horrible thing you can think of to be feeling this way.

And yes, I said let go. Everyone is on point with the Christians aren't perfect. But I know for me personally it's not a matter of being perfect it's just standards and holding to your own. I don't put anyone on a pedastol but if you say you're going to be somewhere at a certain time then be there. If you say you are going to do something then do it. I don't count on others for my walk but it helps if they are not backsliding and being non-chalant about it. For me it works on my barriers. No one can force my barriers down but they can be eroded and someone elses non-chalant attitude can tend to bleed onto others around and them and before you know it you have this "Well it's not SO bad" thing starting to creep into your mind. I know we are supposed to be ever vigilant but it helps to have others around you that will uphold certain standards and it makes you feel (I know for me it does) more comfortable being around them and having them in your life because you know you don't have to put up your "ever vigilant shield" when you come into contact with them. You know that this is a sister in Christ who desires to walk with him and will help you do the same.

I've had to cut some people out of my life that I really didn't want to but it had to be done. The bible talks about those who are indulging in the sins of this world and how we are not to even eat with such people. And some people tend to get that wrong and think it means non believers but Paul himself said that in order to avoid those types of people God would have to take us out of this world. No, he was talking about Christians who profess one way and live the other. And I mean LIVE.

Making mistakes is part of life. Living in those mistakes shouldn't be a part of your life. So you make a mistake, get up, dust off your butt and get right back on the path. Don't lay down and wallow in the dirt until it starts raining and then your covered in the muck and mire and weighed down by it and starting to feel comfortable.

Maybe I'm a spiritual weakling or a paranoid Jesus-Freak but I know it's too easy for me too stumble to have those in my life who are content in their sin isn't good for me. I sin, my friends sin, everybody sins. But we have not all resigned ourself to it and made room for it in our lives.

I know why it bothers you London it's just part of maturity and looking and walking closer with Christ. That's what was happening and still is happening to me as I mature in my Christianity. And the farther away you get from certain behavior you get the bigger the picture is that you see and the picture you see is bothering you. It's like in grade school when the girls matured faster than the boys and the boys still wanted to play games and act silly around you. It annoyed the crap out of me and certain behavior tends to evoke that same resonse from me to this day.

I'll pray for your piece of mind and the decision you make.

 

[LondonDiva]

Thanks for the replies Ladies.

Honeyhips, AnnDriena summed it up pretty much to a T as to why I've posted it on here. AnnDriena I swear you must be reading my mind.

I spoke to her today about it. I wasn't calling her to have a go at her. I think she actually appreciated the phone call.

She lives in a pretty full house. Mother, 2 sisters, a baby niece, the baby's father, herself and her fiancee.

Now the fiancee was living with his sister who is married and by the sounds of it was paying them rent.

The original agreement was for the fiancee to take my friends room and for N to share with her mother. The purpose was to help them save money for a down payment for a house. So what he's paying in rent he can save towards the house.

Now N is the only one of the family members that have been saved and attends churchs every sunday. Now N basically had to battle with her mother NOT to share with the fiancee, she wanted to share with her mother as it goes against her religion and principles. As N's younger sister (19) has a baby and her man lives there, the mother was concerned what other people would think that the older sister refused to 'room' with her fiancee, where the younger one was.

OT: The mother blatantly has favourites and the 19 yr old mother is the 1st favourite out of her 4 kids, with N being last.

So in essence it would be more apparant that her younger daughter was living in sin with her bf if the oldest one refused to live with the fiancee. F'd up I know.

So I ask her doesn't her mother respect her religious beliefs and principles. She didn't answer. I took that as a no. So I told her, she has to answer to somebody much bigger with her mother, and even if he's living with you in your room or in the home, co-habiting is co-habiting where do you draw the line?

She's always talked about preparing for this life is one thing, but her preparing for her spiritual life in heaven with God is more important. Something that's always stuck with me. I just want her to make the right choices in God's eyes is all. I'm just EXTREMLY disappointed in her mother.

 

[BLESSED1]

I wasn't talking to you at all. why would you think that?

Because your post was right after mine babe. Sorry

 

[Honeyhips]

Oh ok, duh!

London, I feel bad for your friend. What her mother is doing makes no sense to me at all. But, I never would have allowed my fiance to move in with me and my Mom.

 

[LondonDiva]

Oh ok, duh!

London, I feel bad for your friend. What her mother is doing makes no sense to me at all. But, I never would have allowed my fiance to move in with me and my Mom.

I could write a novel about that girls mother, Over the years i've written many a post about her. She's my ex's mother and the girl in question is his sister. The mother alone has issues SERIOUS issues. After talking to N today I feel really bad for her. She's been shoved into a position in which she doesn't want to be in. I really feel her fiancee should get out and move back in with his sister. I really do, if he's any kind of Christian and loving fiancee, he would let her and her religious beliefs be. Fair enough they have to save money, but this is her relationship with God she messing with, which is more important than any down payment on a house. **Big sigh**

She sounds stressed enough with starting a new job in a few weeks, wedding plans, trying to lose weight for the wedding, trying to frow her hair for her wedding, save for a house, deal with health issues and now not having any space cause her fiancee is up under her 24/7. All of this she has to do by June 2006. She's gonna be a wreck by the time it's all done.

 

[GodsPromises]

It sounds to me that her mother is being used by the enemy (satan) to get her daughter to go against her belief. I agree with you LD that N's fianance has to move out until the wedding. She has to stand firm on this and not waiver, to show her family especially her mother that God is more important than anything in her life. If her FI doesn't move out willingly than she has to decide if this is the man for her, one who would make her waiver on God and choose FI over God

 

[AnnDriena_]

Has she told her fiance he needs to move out? Because it sounds to me like you are just like me with your friends. You want more for them than they want for themselves.erplexed

 

[Honeyhips]

I really feel her fiancee should get out and move back in with his sister. I really do, if he's any kind of Christian and loving fiancee, he would let her and her religious beliefs be. Fair enough they have to save money, but this is her relationship with God she messing with, which is more important than any down payment on a house. **Big sigh**

.

I was going to say this, but didn't know how. You are right. If he really loved her, and had a relationship with God he wouldn't be doing this. There is no way in the world a Man would compromise his or her beliefs like this. Is he a Christian? If not, why is she marrying him anyway? Plus why does he need to save money? HOw long does he plan on staying there? THere is nothing wrong with living in an apt when you first get married and save money together. If he doesn't have the money to buy the house he wants maybe he shouldn't be getting married right now. If he can live with his sister why would he go to her Mom's house. Why can't your friend kick him out? If she is being controlled and manipulated by her mother with something as important as this, I don't think she should be thinking about marriage right now either.

 

[naptrl]

I agree with what everyone is saying. It is very hard to sleep in a bed with someone you are attracted to and are about to marry without having sex. That is the ultimate temptation. That's why God says DONT DO IT. It's important to keep ourselves out of tempting situations because sexual desires are hard to overcome!!

 

[AnnDriena_]

Oh my goodness honeyhips all those questions had me wondering who let you into my head?
But that is right. You have to think about how much someone cares for someone else's spiritual well being if they are even willing to do that and put that kind of temptation on them.
Him having to save up and move in with her before marriage in order to do it should throw up a little red flag. And then her being so controlled by her mother that she doesn't just move in with a roommate/friend and pay half the rent there or something should throw up another red flag. Because when you "solve" problems by creating more problems that isn't a personality trait that bodes well for marriage.

And I'm glad you said that naptrl, because when I talk about my abstinence people like to act like I'm asexual and not interested in sex if I'm not having it before marriage. I have urges just like everyone else but I've decided to give those urges and temptations over to a higher power and trust that he'll bring me the man and marriage that can satisfy them in a way that is glorifying to him.


And it just sounds to me like there are too darn many people in that house.

 

[ms_kenesha]

I haven't read all the responses, but I believe if she is saving herself for marriage and some of the other things you've said then living with him is not the right thing to do.

In a previous relationship, my bf and I were being celibate and abstaining for the sake of God, we went to church, prayed together, etc. well he takes me back to college and stays the weekend and we slipped up and had sex. I was so distraught I cried, he was distraught, he cried...in fact his mom had cried before he left because she thought something like that might happen.

If she is trying to stay on the straight and narrow she's on the wrong path.

 

[ThickHair]

I agree too many people in the house. If you are saving money, you will save regardless of where you are living. It seems like bf really doesn't have any place to go.

 

[Honeyhips]

COOL!!! you know how God is when he wants to get his point across. Plus it is so much easier to see this kind of stuff when you are not involved in the situation.

Oh my goodness honeyhips all those questions had me wondering who let you into my head?
But that is right. You have to think about how much someone cares for someone else's spiritual well being if they are even willing to do that and put that kind of temptation on them.
Him having to save up and move in with her before marriage in order to do it should throw up a little red flag. And then her being so controlled by her mother that she doesn't just move in with a roommate/friend and pay half the rent there or something should throw up another red flag. Because when you "solve" problems by creating more problems that isn't a personality trait that bodes well for marriage.

And I'm glad you said that naptrl, because when I talk about my abstinence people like to act like I'm asexual and not interested in sex if I'm not having it before marriage. I have urges just like everyone else but I've decided to give those urges and temptations over to a higher power and trust that he'll bring me the man and marriage that can satisfy them in a way that is glorifying to him.


And it just sounds to me like there are too darn many people in that house.

I agree too many people in the house. If you are saving money, you will save regardless of where you are living. It seems like bf really doesn't have any place to go.

Exactly.

 

[honeisos]

LD, let me tell you, as disappointed as you are in your friend, I want you to understand that she is precisely the type of person that Jesus laid down His life on the cross for. Sins of all types were nailed to the cross with Him: fornication, murder, stealing, lying, hypocrisy. . . you name it, Jesus came to save us from it.

Christians are all sinners. The bible says that we all sin and fall short of the Glory of God-Romans 3:23. Sometimes I think that people expect those who call themselves Christians to be perfect. But if we ever could have been perfect, Jesus would not have had to die to deliver us from our sins. The bible could have ended with the Old Testament and that would have been the end of it. Come to think of it, even the Old Testament would have been a moot point.

I'm telling you, don't hold any Christian up to that high a standard. You will be disappointed. Yes, those of us who profess to be serious about our walk with Jesus are called to live a holy life, but we stumble and fall sometimes. We are called to conduct ourselves in a manner that will not cause our brother to fall, but it happens. If you rely on someone else's walk with Christ to bring you to an understanding of the goodness of Jesus, you'll never come to the Lord. Remember, don't hold anyone up. Not a pastor, a friend, family, me, no-one! We are all bound to do something to disappoint you. Don't look to us who are sinful and imperfect. Instead, look up to the perfection and mercy of our Lord, Christ Jesus.

Lastly, the next time you talk to your friend, remind her that the Lord's prayer says: "...and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil..." That means, "Lord, don't even let me get into a situation that I'll have to struggle out of." some Christians have a habit of praying God to sustain them once they've already fallen into sin, and He can do it. But what we should be doing, is avoiding finding ourselves in those situations to begin with. Prevent it. What she's doing is tempting herself and him unreasonably and unwisely. She does not have to practice celibacy or test their endurance in that manner. She's playing house too early.

At this point, I'm hard pressed to believe that they are not sleeping together, regardless of what she says. Two people who are sexually attracted to each other, cannot sleep in a bed together night after night and expect nothing to happen. Come on, now. God takes no pleasure in this, especially since her behavior is causing you to feel the way you do. I also believe that if she were very serious about her walk with Jesus, she wouldn't even feel comfortable doing what she's doing. She's acting as one who's in a back-slidden state.

I hope I was able to make you feel even a little bit better about this situation. Call her out on her behavior. The spirit of the Lord will convict her. She may not be willing to acknowledge it, but God will speak to her heart. What she chooses to do at that point is on her, but let the Lord deal with her. He will.

Be blessed, sweetie!

Girl .. you are so on point .... I'm going to print this out and read it over and over....
As Christians we do tend to hold people up so high it's hard to live up to ... but if you ignore God and and make your own rules .. you Will fall!..... my Pastor was preaching about this Sunday....