It's Funny What They Don't Know

[charmtreese]

If it was a regular BSS, they should not have been selling Mizani to begin with...so NOPE, I don't blame them for not knowing!!! When you purchase Professional products at establishments that should not be selling them in the first place then it's always BUYER BEWARE!!!

 

[LittleLuxe]

Your hair looks gorgeous charmtreese, how do you use crisco?

 

[Kneechay]

Charmtresse I think Mizani is being sold in BSS widely now. Every BSS in Houston I've walked past Affirm, Mizani, Motions, etc and others at the bottom row of relaxers and in huge tubs. Next time I go, I'll take a phone pic.

 

[MsMwana]

Belldandy - ain't that the truth, trying to stay cute in high chool + 0 healthy hair tips from supposed professionals = very damaged hair

Mswana - it's funny you say that because this thread was not directed to people I wouldn't expect or demand to know about hair. I didn't even know that much till a few weeks ago. This is about people who ARE professionals. Who ARE supposed to be very educated so they can educate others. I was really marveling at the fact that people trusted with hot tools, powerful chemicals, and selling performing professional services on individuals can be so mis-informed.

and Belldandy has it right. Unfortunately once someone has that 'professional' title they're really not interested in listening to someone who's unlicensed (or even if they are). Sometimes they cop an attitude or just don't seem interested. Still, as a BBS owner I'd expect at the very least you could tell an uninformed consumer the difference between a lye and no-lye relaxer before they slap it on their head and jack up their hair, lol.

I see your point but I still don't think making fun of mis-information or lack of information is the way forward. Remember it was a group of 'professionals' who once thought the world was flat...I admire the likes of MsLizziA trying to make a positive impact. I know this thread wasn't suppsed to be that serious but it's just my opinion...

 

[belldandy]

^^hmm, maybe I am a little bitter. My hair was a fried, burnt mess all through high school due to misinformation, and I don't really see the harm in us discussing the fact that there is said misinformation out there. I don't see anything wrong with us sharing our experiences either. If a little humor comes put, who is getting harmed? Hopefully some middle schooler might come across this thread and relate to our experiences and decide to take their haircare into their own hands. But hey, that's just my take... You are entitled to your opinion as well, but I really hope others still feel free to respond to the post and discuss anyway. No offense, b/c I think it was a pretty good thread...

 

[belldandy]

I mean really, how could a stylist NOT know that they should not be pulling the relaxer to your ends for a touch up??

The other thing mine used to do was put spritz in my hair, then curl or flat iron that piece...makes me want to cry just thinking about it :_(

 

[LittleLuxe]

Ms.Mwana -

I think negative impact can work just as well as positive impact...sadly probably better. Someone mentioned Honda as an business example earlier. Honda made a faulty product ,when that product's failures were exposed publicly Honda gained a bad reputation and no one wanted to buy a Honda. Stocks plummeted and the company lost a lot of money...I assure you after this they'll be doing everything in their power to make a better product. They NEED for their reputation to be trusted again and for people to have faith in the quality of their products.

On the opposite angle you have people selling relaxers who can't even tell you whether they are lye or no-lye. This isn't something that requires a wide depth of information, it's as simple as seeing whether the tub comes with an activator bottle. There are people doing girl's hair causing major damage because despite being licensed as a professional they're not operating with any real knowledge. We get this kind of treatment because we are still active and faithful consumers.

I respect Ms. LizziA for thinking about doing her part and trying to get involved in the healing but the reality is for millions of other black women that is not an option and they are faced with licensed professionals with 0 motivation to become better. Now I happen to believe if the industry went through HALF what Honda just went through we'd quickly be seeing some improvement. Sometimes facing and exposing the negative can be incredibly helpful, after all if more black women complained and demanded better change would have already occurred. It is because the majority accept the standard that it's stayed the same.

So I don't mind negative responses at all, people should be able to air their grievances and unhappiness. We didn't find our way to this site because our hair was in such GREAT shape, lol. It's because it was damaged and unhealthy and when we turned to the very people trained in the art of our hair they shrugged their shoulders and gave us more bad advice. I just want people to feel free to say whatever. And the way I think about it when all others were claiming the world was flat there was one voice that spoke up and said "You guys are idiots" and it worked out pretty well for us all.

 

[MsMwana]

^^hmm, maybe I am a little bitter. My hair was a fried, burnt mess all through high school due to misinformation, and I don't really see the harm in us discussing the fact that there is said misinformation out there. I don't see anything wrong with us sharing our experiences either. If a little humor comes put, who is getting harmed? Hopefully some middle schooler might come across this thread and relate to our experiences and decide to take their haircare into their own hands. But hey, that's just my take... You are entitled to your opinion as well, but I really hope others still feel free to respond to the post and discuss anyway. No offense, b/c I think it was a pretty good thread...

I feel u...

 

[LittleLuxe]

And on the positive side of things this forum is a big help, it's getting a message of healthy hair out. If not for it I certainly would still be clueless and doing damage to my hair and every woman who posts and interacts here is helping dozens of others even if she doesn't know it. MsMwana I actually remember your avatar pic from a lot of archive threads so I want to say thank you

I think we're getting there. Attitudes are changing, more information is out and scientific research is being done to help the cause. Overall I'm very happy with it even if it doesn't sound so.

 

[lamaria211]

what about buying ethnic products from ethnic people ?? maybe that would help (DONT WANNA START NOTHING BUT IM JUST SAYIN) WE SPEND A BILLION DOLLARS WITH ASIAN FOLKS FOR OUR HAIRCARE.....

 

[Solitude]

While I understand what you ladies are saying, i.e. it's a world of business out there and the owners of the store aren't required to know anything to sell you a product I feel that's exactly the attitude that's holding back black hair care and business.

If an organization such as Ulta or Sephora had a reputation of lacking such important knowledge on the products they sold NO ONE would buy anything from them. Their representatives are knowledgable on everything from appliances, to skin care products, to perfumes. Meanwhile I roll into a beauty supply store and I can't even get a recommendation for a good conditioner? Really? That's acceptable service?

Still I know we get shoddy service because we accept shoddy service and uninformed business owners have no motivation to learn anything because they'll be making bank regardless. Overall it's the entire process that's got to change but it's definitely saddening we get so little because we ask for so little. I feel like at this point we're trained to not even ask questions about our hair because the ones treating it know nothing and we've been told so many lies through the years.

These responses are indicative of unbridled and unethical captialism at its very worst. Customers expect decent product knowledge at Home Depot, car dealerships, Sephora, the fishmonger, etc., but black women shouldn't expect a minimum of decent hair care advice from the BSS? Wow.

ETA: If we don't start demanding good service we will never get it.

They don't know anything at any of these places, either!!! I inquired about the new KeraCare products at Ulta and they didn't know didly. Sephora sells Phyto relaxers, but try to get one of those saleswomen to explain the difference between a lye and a no-lye relaxer, and I promise you they can't.

Home Depot salespeople are basically responsible for stocking the shelves. They are not familiar with the thousands of products on the Home Depot shelves. Lastly, I don't think it's necessary for me to touch on car dealers. They are known to straight-up LIE to consumers.

 

[supermodelsonya]

If it was a regular BSS, they should not have been selling Mizani to begin with...so NOPE, I don't blame them for not knowing!!! When you purchase Professional products at establishments that should not be selling them in the first place then it's always BUYER BEWARE!!!

I agree. These products are for professional use only. They say that on the bottle. I think we should demand better customer service but that's in a perfect world.

If you're going to put it on your head, then the person doing the application has the higher responsibility. So if that person is you, then hey....

 

[charmtreese]

Your hair looks gorgeous charmtreese, how do you use crisco?

Thank you!!! I use it straight up to seal with or mix it with other stuff to make a lighter creamier consistency! It does a great job at softening and keeping my hair moisturized.

Charmtresse I think Mizani is being sold in BSS widely now. Every BSS in Houston I've walked past Affirm, Mizani, Motions, etc and others at the bottom row of relaxers and in huge tubs. Next time I go, I'll take a phone pic.

I believe you however, just because they sell these products (Affirm and Mizani) anyone can sell Motions, doesn't mean that they are suppose to. It's called Diversion, unauthorized selling of professional products.

 

[belldandy]

I feel u...

Lol

 

[belldandy]

what about buying ethnic products from ethnic people ?? maybe that would help (DONT WANNA START NOTHING BUT IM JUST SAYIN) WE SPEND A BILLION DOLLARS WITH ASIAN FOLKS FOR OUR HAIRCARE.....

hmm now thats a thought

 

[tbaby_8]

Charmtresse I think Mizani is being sold in BSS widely now. Every BSS in Houston I've walked past Affirm, Mizani, Motions, etc and others at the bottom row of relaxers and in huge tubs. Next time I go, I'll take a phone pic.

Technically, they are not suppose to sell it. Many BSS put salons in there shop to become authorized to sell the professional stuff, but do not contact the manufacturer to learn about the product. And many Stylist don't go to classes to learn there systems. That is just the way of the industry. Consumers need to speak up. Many people before LHCF did not say anything when they sat in the stylist chair and may not have known what their stylist was doing was wrong, but you knew you were uncomfortable with what they were doing, so why not speak up.

 

[tbaby_8]

Ms.Mwana -

I think negative impact can work just as well as positive impact...sadly probably better. Someone mentioned Honda as an business example earlier. Honda made a faulty product ,when that product's failures were exposed publicly Honda gained a bad reputation and no one wanted to buy a Honda. Stocks plummeted and the company lost a lot of money...I assure you after this they'll be doing everything in their power to make a better product. They NEED for their reputation to be trusted again and for people to have faith in the quality of their products.

On the opposite angle you have people selling relaxers who can't even tell you whether they are lye or no-lye. This isn't something that requires a wide depth of information, it's as simple as seeing whether the tub comes with an activator bottle. There are people doing girl's hair causing major damage because despite being licensed as a professional they're not operating with any real knowledge. We get this kind of treatment because we are still active and faithful consumers.

I respect Ms. LizziA for thinking about doing her part and trying to get involved in the healing but the reality is for millions of other black women that is not an option and they are faced with licensed professionals with 0 motivation to become better. Now I happen to believe if the industry went through HALF what Honda just went through we'd quickly be seeing some improvement. Sometimes facing and exposing the negative can be incredibly helpful, after all if more black women complained and demanded better change would have already occurred. It is because the majority accept the standard that it's stayed the same.

So I don't mind negative responses at all, people should be able to air their grievances and unhappiness. We didn't find our way to this site because our hair was in such GREAT shape, lol. It's because it was damaged and unhealthy and when we turned to the very people trained in the art of our hair they shrugged their shoulders and gave us more bad advice. I just want people to feel free to say whatever. And the way I think about it when all others were claiming the world was flat there was one voice that spoke up and said "You guys are idiots" and it worked out pretty well for us all.

I see your point, but when in school, we are not trained to do our (black) hair. We are trained to do all hair and it is the very basics that we learned, just enough to pass state board to receive our lic. That is all. I was told this when I attended Cos. school by several instructors and the director in the school. I was also told that I would learn more once I started working. Think about it, if you are studying under someone that is not furthering their education, they are just passing down the same incorrect info to you and you will pass it down to the next person. That is why many don't know and many don't feel like they need to seek more knowledge because they already know. I have worked with many stylist that are like that. I have met many that go to alot of continuing education classes because they want to learn, but you also got to think that the continuiing ed classes are taught by people that may not know much either, so misinformation begets misinformation.

 

[tbaby_8]

They don't know anything at any of these places, either!!! I inquired about the new KeraCare products at Ulta and they didn't know didly. Sephora sells Phyto relaxers, but try to get one of those saleswomen to explain the difference between a lye and a no-lye relaxer, and I promise you they can't.

Home Depot salespeople are basically responsible for stocking the shelves. They are not familiar with the thousands of products on the Home Depot shelves. Lastly, I don't think it's necessary for me to touch on car dealers. They are known to straight-up LIE to consumers.

Girl you are speaking the truth!

 

[ManeVixen]

They don't know anything at any of these places, either!!! I inquired about the new KeraCare products at Ulta and they didn't know didly. Sephora sells Phyto relaxers, but try to get one of those saleswomen to explain the difference between a lye and a no-lye relaxer, and I promise you they can't.

Home Depot salespeople are basically responsible for stocking the shelves. They are not familiar with the thousands of products on the Home Depot shelves. Lastly, I don't think it's necessary for me to touch on car dealers. They are known to straight-up LIE to consumers.

*raises hand* I worked for Sephora and was throughly trained on everything by the brands themselves, and you could ask me about anything in that store and I knew it.
Maybe my great experiences out weigh the bad because I cant remember going to Home depot or anything place like that and someone not being knowledgeable.
I'm not buying the whole they are just employees they dont need to know stuff (Not directed @ you Solitude) If you going to work there learn what you are selling, its your job even as a sales person

Still to this day my family swears by anything that says its for black hair or has "Gro" in it

 

[belldandy]

*raises hand* I worked for Sephora and was throughly trained on everything by the brands themselves, and you could ask me about anything in that store and I knew it.
Maybe my great experiences out weigh the bad because I cant remember going to Home depot or anything place like that and someone not being knowledgeable.
I'm not buying the whole they are just employees they dont need to know stuff (Not directed @ you Solitude) If you going to work there learn what you are selling, its your job even as a sales person

Still to this day my family swears by anything that says its for black hair or has "Gro" in it

Well said

 

[LittleLuxe]

*raises hand* I worked for Sephora and was throughly trained on everything by the brands themselves, and you could ask me about anything in that store and I knew it.
Maybe my great experiences out weigh the bad because I cant remember going to Home depot or anything place like that and someone not being knowledgeable.
I'm not buying the whole they are just employees they dont need to know stuff (Not directed @ you Solitude) If you going to work there learn what you are selling, its your job even as a sales person

Still to this day my family swears by anything that says its for black hair or has "Gro" in it

Amen, lol.

Maybe I've just been lucky but I've gone to numerous Sephora's, Home Depot's (never been to Ulta), and other establishments and the people working there were well versed, informed, and eager to help.

I spent an entire summer doing everything from garden work to remodeling parts of my house and if not for the people of Home Depot (we had a bad contractor) I would have been utterly lost. As for Sephora I love makeup and skin care products and am in that store far more than I should be and each time I went there whether it was for eye cream, mascara, styling tools or etc. the people working there were always able to answer my questions and even better recommend products that worked better than what I had originally come in wanting.

I can imagine some folks have had bad experiences with their personal dealings with some companies. Just feels like I've been going to a number of salons and BSS all my life and looking back at it I can't recall one that really did anything for me in the long run other than taking my money (gladly). Heck one reason I quit going to hairstylists was because I went to so many different ones, all highly recommended, expecting them to be actually helpful and instead they were just there to collect their $75.

And I'm sorry but I really can't excuse a BSS that has an attached salon where 3 of the people employed can't tell a lye from a no-lye relaxer. That's just a bit much to let it slide.

 

[LittleLuxe]

what about buying ethnic products from ethnic people ?? maybe that would help (DONT WANNA START NOTHING BUT IM JUST SAYIN) WE SPEND A BILLION DOLLARS WITH ASIAN FOLKS FOR OUR HAIRCARE.....

Nothing wrong with what you're saying , I'm switching to products that are more natural and better for the health of my hair. If I find black businesses that are selling such products (which I have) then I'm happy to help and support.

 

[LittleLuxe]

Thank you!!! I use it straight up to seal with or mix it with other stuff to make a lighter creamier consistency! It does a great job at softening and keeping my hair moisturized.

Learn something new everyday well, keep it up. It's working!

 

[LittleLuxe]

Technically, they are not suppose to sell it. Many BSS put salons in there shop to become authorized to sell the professional stuff, but do not contact the manufacturer to learn about the product. And many Stylist don't go to classes to learn there systems. That is just the way of the industry. Consumers need to speak up. Many people before LHCF did not say anything when they sat in the stylist chair and may not have known what their stylist was doing was wrong, but you knew you were uncomfortable with what they were doing, so why not speak up.

I definitely appreciate it from that POV, which is why I'm not trying to lay the blame on any single person. I think overall the industry needs a boost. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wigs or weaves, but I just find it fascinating they're coming out with such amazing new ways to apply fake hair to women's hair and make them gorgeous but on the flipside the attention being paid to actual haircare products is pretty minimal.

And you're very right, the feeling of 'what do I know' definitely makes you keep quiet even though you don't feel comfortable with what the individual is doing to your hair.

 

[Creatividual]

what about buying ethnic products from ethnic people ?? maybe that would help (DONT WANNA START NOTHING BUT IM JUST SAYIN) WE SPEND A BILLION DOLLARS WITH ASIAN FOLKS FOR OUR HAIRCARE.....

I couldn't agree more! We need to start making our own haircare products and buying from each other so we can get that BILLION dollars flowing back into our communities. Do you know what kind of impact we could have if we took our industry back? Man!

 

[Solitude]

Technically, they are not suppose to sell it. Many BSS put salons in there shop to become authorized to sell the professional stuff, but do not contact the manufacturer to learn about the product. And many Stylist don't go to classes to learn there systems. That is just the way of the industry. Consumers need to speak up. Many people before LHCF did not say anything when they sat in the stylist chair and may not have known what their stylist was doing was wrong, but you knew you were uncomfortable with what they were doing, so why not speak up.

No offense, but let's be real. Mizani knows their stuff is being sold in the Beauty Supply Stores. They are clearly distributing their products to wholesalers who they know are supplying it to the BSS stores. For years, it was hard to find Mizani. They only sold it to professionals and Ulta, but like all salon brands, over time, the profit outweighs their concern for professional use.

Audrey "Sistalick" wrote a good article about product diversion a while ago http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278519/salon_exclusive_the_truth_about_hair.html?cat=69

She doesn't mention Mizani, but it's the same concept.

*raises hand* I worked for Sephora and was throughly trained on everything by the brands themselves, and you could ask me about anything in that store and I knew it.
Maybe my great experiences out weigh the bad because I cant remember going to Home depot or anything place like that and someone not being knowledgeable.
I'm not buying the whole they are just employees they dont need to know stuff (Not directed @ you Solitude) If you going to work there learn what you are selling, its your job even as a sales person

Still to this day my family swears by anything that says its for black hair or has "Gro" in it

Don't get me wrong, I love Sephora. I'm not knocking the saleswomen. They try to be very helpful. I just don't think they know that much about the actual chemical makeup of the products.

I specifically recall inquiring about Phyto's relaxers several times at Sephora and the ladies didn't know anything. This was in Pentagon City in Arlington and in the Galleria in Houston. They would just say, "Oh, it's a good product for curly hair." I had one black saleslady tell me, "If I had your grade of hair, I wouldn't use a relaxer."

lol @ "Gro" Lawd, my mom thinks it's something in one of my products that must be making my hair grow....I'm like...no, it's time, patience, and good hair care practices!

what about buying ethnic products from ethnic people ?? maybe that would help (DONT WANNA START NOTHING BUT IM JUST SAYIN) WE SPEND A BILLION DOLLARS WITH ASIAN FOLKS FOR OUR HAIRCARE.....

I think we all agree on that! Most of us here who are PJs or semi-PJs patronize several black/ethnic-owned hair care product lines. I use Hairveda, Bee Mine, Uncle Funky's, and Miss Jessie's to name a few...

 

[Solitude]

I couldn't agree more! We need to start making our own haircare products and buying from each other so we can get that BILLION dollars flowing back into our communities. Do you know what kind of impact we could have if we took our industry back? Man!

ITA. I wonder how much of that money is coming strictly from hair weaves? Most people I know don't own that many products. I had very few myself before I started my HHJ. I really think all that money is flowing from fake hair.