Amber_moon
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me like the church itself is in sin. And if I were you Id find another one to go to. One that made decisions based on biblical standards instead of bigotry and hatred.
Something that's been bothering me at my church
- Thread starter chellero
- Start date
MsDee4, I can only share my personal experience how 'love' brought me in.
This precious woman who loved me and my children never judged me. She prayed for me instead. Her children were adults and they loved my children as their very own. She enabled me to come home and not have to cook; all I had to do was bathe my babies and put them to bed. Then I was able to study or finish my chores.
But in sin I was divorced and looking for love from the wrong men. Yet this family's love God was using to pull me in. God won my heart. There were many people God used in my life to bring me in and this woman's love was one of ways He did it.
I do have to share this and I also know that you will understand. That there are times when God has to use 'tough love' to bring a person to their knees. That's why I mentioned this situation above as a tough call. I personally can not choose to not feed a child. I just can't do it.
I know that there are some users and abusers of 'kindness' and it's so unfair for those who truly have a heart to change and to do things right. Maybe this is the reason for this Pastor's decision. But still how can he not feed a child and yet feed other's in sin?
Sad...situation and a hard position to be in. All the more reason we need the guidance of the Holy Spirit, when we have a hard call.
God bless you...
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
MsDee4, I can only share my personal experience how 'love' brought me in.
This precious woman who loved me and my children never judged me. She prayed for me instead. Her children were adults and they loved my children as their very own. She enabled me to come home and not have to cook; all I had to do was bathe my babies and put them to bed. Then I was able to study or finish my chores.
But in sin I was divorced and looking for love from the wrong men. Yet this family's love God was using to pull me in. God won my heart. There were many people God used in my life to bring me in and this woman's love was one of ways He did it.
I do have to share this and I also know that you will understand. That there are times when God has to use 'tough love' to bring a person to their knees. That's why I mentioned this situation above as a tough call. I personally can not choose to not feed a child. I just can't do it.
I know that there are some users and abusers of 'kindness' and it's so unfair for those who truly have a heart to change and to do things right. Maybe this is the reason for this Pastor's decision. But still how can he not feed a child and yet feed other's in sin?
All the more reason we need the guidance of the Holy Spirit, when we have a hard call.
God bless you...
Hey sis,
I too agree with you and what you are saying here. How could we not feed the children? I was thinking about this so hard and decided to ask dh about it. This is what he shared with me:
He said "wow, that is tough. I'm sure this is a tough decision for the pastor as well. I'm wondering how the parents feel about this situation. They are allowing their children to not have necessities because they are too rebellious to realize the needs of their children. Hmmm....I remember when the Lord had the children of Israel in the wilderness. He wanted so much for them to depend on Him to supply their needs, and that He did. They murmured and complained and so forth. Long story short, they never got to see the Promise Land because that whole generation died because of it. I guess there are times when, as a pastor, you will have to make a tough call to try and hopefully open the eyes of the people involved."
I hate to see anyone go hungry. This is apart of my ministry is to feed people. We do it 4 days a week. Like I said before, I'm sure there are two sides to this story though, and it would be really interesting to see what the pastor have to say about why he did it this way. I wish the OP would ask him and then come back with a report as too how the convo went.
Luv ya!
Hey Darlin, I hear you and dh on this. It's really a tough call. I totally understand about 'not enabling' one to sin. And we get angry as Christians when we see the same persons, doing the same thing over and over again. I used to help out in our Benevolence Ministry, where we would supplement families on public assistance at the end of the month at the time when their food stamps would run out. We would bag enough groceries and even give pampers, baby formula, etc. to help them until they received their next months allottment.
Precious Wavy....(you know what I'm about share....) that they were mostly single moms and yes you guessed it, sis...they were also living in sexual sin...some with men, and some with women, they were living lesbian lifestyles or bisexual. Geeesh!
That was their life as they 'knew' it to be. I mean, of course we were not advocating the lifestyles here. Many, many times I wanted to judge them. But the mother's of the Church who knew much wisdom, kept me in check and also reminded me that we had made a commitment to feed these families and they depended upon it. We could not bear the thought of the children going to school hungry, going to bed hungry. We could not bear the thought of these babies not having diapers or formula when the '"WIC" vouchers ran out.
During the holidays we'd give them enough for a week or two and a gift card for the local grocery store. We had clothing drives and coat ministries so that the children had coats/hats/gloves for the winter weather. I'll never forget what the 'Mothers' would say, "This is how we win them to Jesus. With love."
Precious Wavy, it was such a hard call for me. Because deep down, these persons didn't want to be wrong, but they were just 'lost' and needed to be found. Granted, there were a lot of 'users' (those who take advantage of the ministries) among them and we could tell who they were; they were easy to spot. Yet, a lot of these women did receive Jesus and they and their children came to Church and were serious about the Lord.
Although I don't know where they are now personally, I'm happy that we were able to share Jesus with the food, clothing, and the love that came with it. It was the right thing to do.
Precious Wavy, you and I have 'seen' it all, (almost all, that is) and I know you know that it's not easy. It's just not. And it never will be.
But guess what? It's wasn't easy for Jesus either. "How long must I tarry with you?" is one of His most prominent questions. Yet He chose to remain on that cross and bear the weight of all of our sins of all of us.
No amount of food can match that. None. What are we actually trying to prove? Nothing at all. For the love we withhold is nothing compared to the love which has been so freely given unto us by Him alone. So what if we feed them...let us do so in love for the love we've been given when we were yet still in sin. We are not their 'god' to judge them for their actions.
I yet still have to remember the mess that I was doing when God still yet, blessed me and kept me and fed me and fed and clothed my babies. And He's still giving 'grace' to me in spite of what I should be doing and I'm not.... Oh Lord have mercy upon us who judge and think we have it all together when we do not.
I'd in the mind that I really do not care what 'this Pastor' is thinking, But he is not God to distribute neither withhold blessings or punishment to the lives of these people. He's wrong and has no right to stand in such arrogance. He's wrong.
Now if he were announcing that he was not contributing to a drug addict's drug habit, or alcohol, etc., I'd agree. But to withhold food from the hungry because he's so righteous? It's wrong. And it's not a good example of a caring Sheperd. I dunno, it's just not right, the more I think and pray about it. It's just not right. I mean it's food for God's sake! He's not proving anything except that he trying to rule their lives to his standards. You can't force a person to love Jesus. You love them to the Lord, instead.
Okay, Shimmie's steam vent is closed....
I love you pretty lady....
Thank you for keeping me in check. Cause you know how I do...
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
I used to help out in our Benevolence Ministry, where we would supplement families on public assistance at the end of the month at the time when their food stamps would run out. We would bag enough groceries and even give pampers, baby formula, etc. to help them until they received their next months allottment.
Precious Wavy....(you know what I'm about share....) that they were mostly single moms and yes you guessed it, sis...they were also living in sexual sin...some with men, and some with women, they were living lesbian lifestyles or bisexual. Geeesh!
I mean, of course we were not advocating the lifestyles here. Many, many times I wanted to judge them. But the mother's of the Church who knew much wisdom, kept me in check and also reminded me that we had made a commitment to feed these families and they depended upon it. We could not bear the thought of the children going to school hungry, going to bed hungry. We could not bear the thought of these babies not having diapers or formula when the '"WIC" vouchers ran out.
During the holidays we'd give them enough for a week or two and a gift card for the local grocery store. We had clothing drives and coat ministries so that the children had coats/hats/gloves for the winter weather. I'll never forget what the 'Mothers' would say, "This is how we win them to Jesus. With love."
Precious Wavy, it was such a hard call for me. Because deep down, these persons didn't want to be wrong, but they were just 'lost' and needed to be found. Granted, there were a lot of 'users' (those who take advantage of the ministries) among them and we could tell who they were; they were easy to spot. Yet, a lot of these women did receive Jesus and they and their children came to Church and were serious about the Lord.
Although I don't know where they are now personally, I'm happy that we were able to share Jesus with the food, clothing, and the love that came with it. It was the right thing to do.
Precious Wavy, you and I have 'seen' it all, (almost all, that is) and I know you know that it's not easy. It's just not. And it never will be.
But guess what? It's wasn't easy for Jesus either. "How long must I tarry with you?" is one of His most prominent questions. Yet He chose to remain on that cross and bear the weight of all of our sins of all of us.
No amount of food can match that. None. What are we actually trying to prove? Nothing at all. For the love we withhold is nothing compared to the love which has been so freely given unto us by Him alone. So what if we feed them...let us do so in love for the love we've been given when we were yet still in sin. We are not their 'god' to judge them for their actions.
I yet still have to remember the mess that I was doing when God still yet, blessed me and kept me and fed me and fed and clothed my babies. And He's still giving 'grace' to me in spite of what I should be doing and I'm not.... Oh Lord have mercy upon us who judge and think we have it all together when we do not.
I'd in the mind that I really do not care what 'this Pastor' is thinking, But he is not God to distribute neither withhold blessings or punishment to the lives of these people. He's wrong and has no right to stand in such arrogance. He's wrong.
Now if he were announcing that he was not contributing to a drug addict's drug habit, or alcohol, etc., I'd agree. But to withhold food from the hungry because he's so righteous? It's wrong. And it's not a good example of a caring Sheperd. I dunno, it's just not right, the more I think and pray about it. It's just not right. I mean it's food for God's sake! He's not proving anything except that he trying to rule their lives to his standards. You can't force a person to love Jesus. You love them to the Lord, instead.
Okay, Shimmie's steam vent is closed....
I love you pretty lady....
You are so right and thank you for keeping me in check too. I'm still wondering what actually happened here....always two sides to every story and yes, I'm sticking with that one for sure. As with Juanita, so with him....!
Hey...that's our girl. I pray for all things well with her. See you in PM land.
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
She sure is...Hey...that's our girl. I pray for all things well with her. See you in PM land.
, okie dokie!
Dee-Licious
Well-Known Member
golden bronze
New Member
I have one simple question.
What would Jesus do?
Jesus fed and clothed those who came to him. Many of them were murderers, tax collectors, adulterers, liars, and the sick. If God sends you someone to assist, that is a gift and a responsibility. In fact the only way not to see a hungry person walking into the Lord's house as anything less than a gift from God is if they were not "sent" from God, but from the advesary-- and you will usually recognize those types.
Jesus' ministry often involved 1.) meeting people where they were at, 2.) ministering to their physical need and 3.) tackling their spiritual need.
It is a little bit hard to spiritually advise someone who is in need by ignoring that need. In fact, the bible cautions against it.
James reminds us "Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Matthew 25:35-40 says: Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
“The king will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
I cannot pass judgement on the word from the Lord your Pastor may have heard. God may indeed have told him to save the food for those obeying his word.
I can say that if you want to know what is right, look at the example of Jesus and ask yourself what is the fruit of this action?
Is what is being done more likely to make hearts receptive to Christ, or to reject Christ?
Remember every act, even rebuking, must be done in love. Anything not done in love, even if the act is right, is not right before God.
Who knows who God may send through the doors of the church to hear a word from the Lord? By denying them food, are we showing them the love of God? Are we showing them the face of God? God is holy, this is true. But he is also merciful, and kind, and longsuffering and attentive to the needs of the heart. God looks beyond the fault and sees the need.
Pray about how God would have you to respond. Maybe you will be the voice of compassion. Maybe God just wants you to see this, so you can be charged a new assignment to assist those in this situation. I don't know the question, but I do know that is God is the answer.
What would Jesus do?
Jesus fed and clothed those who came to him. Many of them were murderers, tax collectors, adulterers, liars, and the sick. If God sends you someone to assist, that is a gift and a responsibility. In fact the only way not to see a hungry person walking into the Lord's house as anything less than a gift from God is if they were not "sent" from God, but from the advesary-- and you will usually recognize those types.
Jesus' ministry often involved 1.) meeting people where they were at, 2.) ministering to their physical need and 3.) tackling their spiritual need.
It is a little bit hard to spiritually advise someone who is in need by ignoring that need. In fact, the bible cautions against it.
James reminds us "Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Matthew 25:35-40 says: Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
“The king will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
I cannot pass judgement on the word from the Lord your Pastor may have heard. God may indeed have told him to save the food for those obeying his word.
I can say that if you want to know what is right, look at the example of Jesus and ask yourself what is the fruit of this action?
Is what is being done more likely to make hearts receptive to Christ, or to reject Christ?
Remember every act, even rebuking, must be done in love. Anything not done in love, even if the act is right, is not right before God.
Who knows who God may send through the doors of the church to hear a word from the Lord? By denying them food, are we showing them the love of God? Are we showing them the face of God? God is holy, this is true. But he is also merciful, and kind, and longsuffering and attentive to the needs of the heart. God looks beyond the fault and sees the need.
Pray about how God would have you to respond. Maybe you will be the voice of compassion. Maybe God just wants you to see this, so you can be charged a new assignment to assist those in this situation. I don't know the question, but I do know that is God is the answer.
Last edited:
Update: I just wanted to let you all know that we gave food out to everyone who needed it this year!
:woohoo::woohoo2:
:woohoo2: I'm so happy Chellero.
As I was re-reading my posts in this thread, I realized that I was ........ 'pissed'
And that's just putting it mildly.
Blessings to your Church and your Pastor.
HeChangedMyName
Well-Known Member
Your pastor's stance doesn't sound very Christ-like to me. I would try to talk to him about it. We can't "see" everyone's sins and if I recall, Jesus traversed, interacted and helped all sorts of people. Rather than penalizing these shacking up people, this could be an opportunity to literally get into these people's homes and minister to them the importance of a Godly marriage and how shacking up is sinful. Maybe they don't know that it is a sin. That sounds crazy, but I have found that it is amazing what people define as "sin" and how many people do things that they are completely unaware of as being sinful behavior.
True...
They see things happening all around them by others and think it's the normal way of living.
Excellent answer. Very compassionate.
firecracker
Well-Known Member
Wow this is an old post but your Pastor sho is something. Kids hungry weather the parents shacking, lost a job, smoking crack etc. I wonder what God is gon say to him when he tries to enter the Pearly gates? We ain't letting you in Son cuz your soooooo self righteous. I'm not for shacking but if there are hungry kids in the house my goodness feed em and preach the gospel of all sins afterwards! Like he isn't a sinner himself!
Similar threads
