Tax Refund Time--This Is REALLY Bothering Me

[Supergirl]

Okay, I like my church and pastor of course, but I have a mind of my own and sometimes don't agree with things he says. (I understand there is no perfect pastor that we will ever agree with 100% of the time)

So... lately (past couple weeks) seeing as it's tax season, my pastor been making these comments that we need to give the first portion of our income tax refund to the Lord! OKAY--wow The problems I have with this are:

a) The Lord loves a cheerful giver so don't try to pressure and intimidate people into giving. They won't be giving cheerfully.
b) Why is he doing this as tax season has arrived. Why not talk about it all year long? It's like he knows people's refunds are coming in and so he's going to bring it up now.
c) We are building a new building soon (30 million in costs) and it seems like he is trying to help that along by pressuring people to give.
d) If we want to get technical, an income tax refund consists of dollars that we have already paid tithes on. (I am a tither)

What do you all think of this?

 

[alexstin]

I completely agree with you. You've already tithed off of it. If you want to give an offering then do so but I HATE IT when pastors try to manipulate people into giving money(and my Dh is a pastor ).

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Okay, I like my church and pastor of course, but I have a mind of my own and sometimes don't agree with things he says. (I understand there is no perfect pastor that we will ever agree with 100% of the time)

So... lately (past couple weeks) seeing as it's tax season, my pastor been making these comments that we need to give the first portion of our income tax refund to the Lord! OKAY--wow The problems I have with this are:

a) The Lord loves a cheerful giver so don't try to pressure and intimidate people into giving. They won't be giving cheerfully.
b) Why is he doing this as tax season has arrived. Why not talk about it all year long? It's like he knows people's refunds are coming in and so he's going to bring it up now.
c) We are building a new building soon (30 million in costs) and it seems like he is trying to help that along by pressuring people to give.
d) If we want to get technical, an income tax refund consists of dollars that we have already paid tithes on. (I am a tither)

What do you all think of this?

Well, my dear sister....tell him how you feel. Yes, pastors aren't perfect and yes they can make HUGE mistakes, especially with something like this. However, since you are one of his members, I think that he may listen to what you have to say and recieve it. You do have that right.

Pray all goes well....blessings!

 

[StrawberryQueen]

I like your mind Supergirl. He shouldn't be pressuring or guilt tripping people into giving anything, because they give out of intimidation and not of love.

 

[Enchantmt]

My personal opinion is that tithing is not a requirement under the new covenant at all, but if you desire to tithe and want to take into consideration all of your income, my understanding is that if you tithe based on your gross, you are not required to tithe the refund, if you tithe based on your net then to make things match up you give a tithe from the refund as well.

HTH

 

[Supergirl]

My personal opinion is that tithing is not a requirement under the new covenant at all, but if you desire to tithe and want to take into consideration all of your income, my understanding is that if you tithe based on your gross, you are not required to tithe the refund, if you tithe based on your net then to make things match up you give a tithe from the refund as well.

HTH

I agree with this too. I give because I desire to and know the church needs finances to operate in many capacities. I don't do it because I feel like it's a "requirement." In fact, I don't usually "tithe." (1/10th) I try to do a little more than a tenth when possible.

 

[PaperClip]

I am not understanding your angst or irritation re. your pastor's words. Do you disagree about what the pastor is saying as it relates to the Bible? Do you disagree with his interpretation? Are you struggling with how the church funds are being used? And the ultimate question: Do you TRUST your pastor as your spiritual leader/guide/covering?

With all that said, I do believe tithing is covenantial (I made up that word! LOL!). I believe in tithing off the gross, not the net. I believe in tithing from my income tax refund despite of my tithing off the gross from my paycheck.

I know that I cannot beat God giving, period. So the more I do, the more that the Lord is compelled to do, based on His Word, His nature, and His character. This is settled for me, regardless of what the pastor says and does with the church funds. If he (God forbid) decides to burn the tithes in a BBQ pit or run off to Timbuktu with them, God is going to judge me on what I do, not on what ANYBODY ELSE DOES.

Peace....

 

[Southernbella.]

I totally agree with Enchantment, and I feel you, Supergirl. You are right...God loves a cheerful giver. If you don't feel led to tithe off of the refund, then don't. God only requires that we give what is in our hearts to give.

 

[Supergirl]

I am not understanding your angst or irritation re. your pastor's words. Do you disagree about what the pastor is saying as it relates to the Bible? Do you disagree with his interpretation? Are you struggling with how the church funds are being used? And the ultimate question: Do you TRUST your pastor as your spiritual leader/guide/covering?

With all that said, I do believe tithing is covenantial (I made up that word! LOL!). I believe in tithing off the gross, not the net. I believe in tithing from my income tax refund despite of my tithing off the gross from my paycheck.

I know that I cannot beat God giving, period. So the more I do, the more that the Lord is compelled to do, based on His Word, His nature, and His character. This is settled for me, regardless of what the pastor says and does with the church funds. If he (God forbid) decides to burn the tithes in a BBQ pit or run off to Timbuktu with them, God is going to judge me on what I do, not on what ANYBODY ELSE DOES.

Peace....

Please see the original post. (a,b,c,d in particular)

 

[PaperClip]

Please see the original post. (a,b,c,d in particular)

Yes, I read your alphabetically-bulleted points. However, they don't address the specific inquiries I made which, at the root, speak to the climate of your relationship with the spiritual/religious leadership of your church. Let's review:

a) The Lord loves a cheerful giver so don't try to pressure and intimidate people into giving. They won't be giving cheerfully.-- DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE MESSAGE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

b) Why is he doing this as tax season has arrived. Why not talk about it all year long? It's like he knows people's refunds are coming in and so he's going to bring it up now. --DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

c) We are building a new building soon (30 million in costs) and it seems like he is trying to help that along by pressuring people to give. DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

d) If we want to get technical, an income tax refund consists of dollars that we have already paid tithes on. (I am a tither) -- DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

I have been in church my entire life and of course I don't always agree with everything the pastor says.... During this process/path to understanding, I pray, read, and at times I have even gone to my pastor and asked him about a particular point that he has made. Notice I did not say I GAVE MY OPINION, but I inquired to get an understanding. Thankfully, I do reach a place of peace that allows me to follow through and allows me the strength and confidence to stand in the Lord's face on earth and on judgement day so that I can say "Lord, I acted/obeyed to the best of my knowledge and ability.".

P.S.: I am not saying or implying that you have not asked or prayed or read. What I am saying is that you or no one should be in a church where there is distrust or suspicion of their pastor.

How can two walk together except they be agreed? (Amos 3:3)

 

[Supergirl]

Yes, I read your alphabetically-bulleted points. However, they don't address the specific inquiries I made which, at the root, speak to the climate of your relationship with the spiritual/religious leadership of your church. Let's review:

a) The Lord loves a cheerful giver so don't try to pressure and intimidate people into giving. They won't be giving cheerfully.-- DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE MESSAGE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

b) Why is he doing this as tax season has arrived. Why not talk about it all year long? It's like he knows people's refunds are coming in and so he's going to bring it up now. --DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

c) We are building a new building soon (30 million in costs) and it seems like he is trying to help that along by pressuring people to give. DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

d) If we want to get technical, an income tax refund consists of dollars that we have already paid tithes on. (I am a tither) -- DO YOU DISAGREE WITH THE CONTENT AND/OR DELIVERY OF THIS POINT?

I have been in church my entire life and of course I don't always agree with everything the pastor says.... During this process/path to understanding, I pray, read, and at times I have even gone to my pastor and asked him about a particular point that he has made. Notice I did not say I GAVE MY OPINION, but I inquired to get an understanding. Thankfully, I do reach a place of peace that allows me to follow through and allows me the strength and confidence to stand in the Lord's face on earth and on judgement day so that I can say "Lord, I acted/obeyed to the best of my knowledge and ability.".

P.S.: I am not saying or implying that you have not asked or prayed or read. What I am saying is that you or no one should be in a church where there is distrust or suspicion of their pastor.

How can two walk together except they be agreed? (Amos 3:3)

Funny, you mentioned praying about it. This morning was the first time I prayed about it. And, (I hope this answers your Q) no I do not agree with him that one needs to/has to give the first portion of an income tax refund to the Lord or the church. If one wantsto, that's another story. But I don't see it as a mandate.

I'm not saying I distrust my pastor, but I don't agree with him on this for sure. If I went to another church, I'm sure eventually the pastor of that church would say something that I don't agree with. There is no perfect church or perfect pastor, and I don't think anyone has a pastor that they agree with 100% of the time.

 

[mrsmeredith]

Yes the Lord loves a cheerful giver so if you give and your heart is not right you will only be hurting yourself because your giving will mean NOTHING. Yes I think your pastor is a little off in this area. He should not have to intimidate you to do anything. His heart has to be toward Kingdom and nothing else and GOD will take care of the rest. Yes I believe tithes are a requirement and Yes to tithe off your gross not net is proper. I don't tithe off my refund but you can give a first fruit offering or just plain and simple an offering. Not a set amount just what you feel in your heart. All your pastor should do is put the word of GOD out there and the spirit of the Lord will lead his people to make the right decisions. Whether we do or not its our choice eventhough he already gave us the best answer. Men makes mistakes so maybe pray toward your Pastor to get his mind right in that area. We can miss it sometimes as a people but thats ok, Grace is a powerful thing.

 

[dede1174]

Well the wa it has been explined to me is. there are people who tithe off the net-after taxes and there are people who tithe off the gross-before taxes.

if you ahve tithed off the gross well then giving a little of yuor tax refund is actually a sacrificial offering.

if it was net well then10% is tithe

 

[mrsmeredith]

Well the wa it has been explined to me is. there are people who tithe off the net-after taxes and there are people who tithe off the gross-before taxes.

if you ahve tithed off the gross well then giving a little of yuor tax refund is actually a sacrificial offering.

if it was net well then10% is tithe

agree with bolded

 

[Supergirl]

Well the wa it has been explined to me is. there are people who tithe off the net-after taxes and there are people who tithe off the gross-before taxes.

if you ahve tithed off the gross well then giving a little of yuor tax refund is actually a sacrificial offering.

if it was net well then10% is tithe

I have always learned that a tithe is off the gross. I didn't even know there were people that tithed from the net.

 

[Mortons]

Okay, I like my church and pastor of course, but I have a mind of my own and sometimes don't agree with things he says. (I understand there is no perfect pastor that we will ever agree with 100% of the time)

So... lately (past couple weeks) seeing as it's tax season, my pastor been making these comments that we need to give the first portion of our income tax refund to the Lord! OKAY--wow The problems I have with this are:

a) The Lord loves a cheerful giver so don't try to pressure and intimidate people into giving. They won't be giving cheerfully.
b) Why is he doing this as tax season has arrived. Why not talk about it all year long? It's like he knows people's refunds are coming in and so he's going to bring it up now.
c) We are building a new building soon (30 million in costs) and it seems like he is trying to help that along by pressuring people to give.
d) If we want to get technical, an income tax refund consists of dollars that we have already paid tithes on. (I am a tither)

What do you all think of this?

You give what you feel you should in your heart. Tithing is an offering to GOD and not your pastor. Please to not give head to this (hopefully) temporary greed this man of God seems to be feeling at this particular moment.