Still need regimen help...depressed by breakage

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

I need help ladies. I do frequent the boards and forums but still am not sure what I am doing wrong. I go into a funk whenever I do my hair because my hands are always full of hair. There are short broken pieces, long strands, and the like in my hands with any type of manipulation. I am currently transitioning and about 6 months post relaxer. I wear twist or non twist bantu knot out daily and the longest strands in my hair are shoulder length and the rest barely collarbone length. My goal is BSL but I fear I won't make it if I don't get this regimen down.
My current regimen is:
Wash and DC once a week, maybe twice a week
Detangle/comb only when hair is wet with condition
twist and bantu knot every 3 days, no combing, only finger detangle.
Mosturize with giovanni direct and seal with castor oil nightly
nightly scalp massage
switch between mosturizing products and protein products weekly.
My current products are: all natural biotin shampoo and condish (can't remember the manufacter name), giovanni direct leave in, castor oil, aussie moist, and aphogee.
I don't know why my hair continues to break, I am very gentle with it and only comb 1 to 2 times a week. I don't know if I should detangle more often or not. I gently seperate my strands with my fingers while watching TV to get a sense of detangling but I don't know if this is too much manipulation or not.
MY questions are: should I not be touching my hair at all for days at a time? Should I be using aphogee 2 minute frequently (like once a week) since I am transitioning and have the fragile demarcation line? Should I not bantu knot? Are bantu knots bad? Any advice would be great. MY final question is this: if I never have breakage/shedding when I wear my hair straight, should I go back to wearing it straight? I currently never straighten or use heat.

 

[silkii_locks]

Hi there, you sound so frustrated and discouraged and trust me I feel your pain. First of all, take a deep breath, it's going to be ok. It sounds like your protein and moisture levels are unbalanced. Are you familiar with the stretch test? Do you know how to tell if your hair needs moisture or if it needs protein?

If you're deep conditioning as often as you've stated then a lack of protein maybe the problem. How does your hair feel in the shower? Does it feel mushy and really stretchy when wet? If so, then you need to do a protein treatment.

The twisting and tight pulling needed for bantu knots, IMO, might be a little too much for your hair at this point. I would recommend two-strand twists instead. Please feel free to ask more questions, I will try to help you with whatever I can.

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

Hi there, you sound so frustrated and discouraged and trust me I feel your pain. First of all, take a deep breath, it's going to be ok. It sounds like your protein and moisture levels are unbalanced. Are you familiar with the stretch test? Do you know how to tell if your hair needs moisture or if it needs protein?

If you're deep conditioning as often as you've stated then a lack of protein maybe the problem. How does your hair feel in the shower? Does it feel mushy and really stretchy when wet? If so, then you need to do a protein treatment.

The twisting and tight pulling needed for bantu knots, IMO, might be a little too much for your hair at this point. I would recommend two-strand twists instead. Please feel free to ask more questions, I will try to help you with whatever I can.

Thanks for posting. I do know that my strands are supposed to have some stretch when pulled and they seem to fit the bill. I pulled on a strand of hair yesterday and with a firm tug it stretched, I didnt have any just snap. My hair doesn't feel mushy in the shower at all but it does feel cotton candyish in the back but I'm not sure what that means. The only issue I have with the two strand twist is if it will give me a curl. My twists don't stay in because of my relaxed ends and my hair is short. Is there a method to this that will give me the curl and style that Im looking for?

 

[silkii_locks]

Hmmm...I see what you mean about getting the curl you want. Maybe you can twist the hair and put a small roller on the end. That would secure the twist and give you the curl.

 

[Evolving78]

i don't think that biotin shampoo and condish is very moisturizing. you really don't have anything moisturizing in your reggie. hopefully more naturals will chime in to give you product recs, but i believe you need to incorporate more moisture in your reggie.

 

[brownsuga2484]

Hi Z,

How long have you been using these products?

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

^^ I have only been using the biotin for a couple of weeks. I mainly got it because it was an organic sulfate free product. I just started my attempts to transition a couple of months ago, I bced 2010 but relaxed again for this very reason...the breakage. Should I be avoiding bantu knots? What products do I need to be using as a transitioner? I didn't realize my products lacks moisture.

 

[Evolving78]

are you near the ocean or desert? if closer to water, use products that have humectants in them. does your hair like glycerin, if yes, try Hawaiian Silky 14n1 or Scurl. Silk Dreams products look very moisturizing and i have noticed a lot of relaxed and transitioning ladies use the products and they seem to work very well for them. i use Keracare, Elucence, something else i am forgetting. Silk Elements conditioner is really nice as well, and since you are really with a lot of new growth, you need something that is going to give you a lot of slip. look for shampoos that are creamy, not clear unless you are clarifying.

 

[NaturalPath]

are you near the ocean or desert? if closer to water, use products that have humectants in them. does your hair like glycerin, if yes, try Hawaiian Silky 14n1 or Scurl. Silk Dreams products look very moisturizing and i have noticed a lot of relaxed and transitioning ladies use the products and they seem to work very well for them. i use Keracare, Elucence, something else i am forgetting. Silk Elements conditioner is really nice as well, and since you are really with a lot of new growth, you need something that is going to give you a lot of slip. look for shampoos that are creamy, not clear unless you are clarifying.

I agree with the bolded, look for conditioners that have the ingrediant benetrimonium sulfate/chloride which would provide tons of slip for your hair and even help with detangling, if you detangle in the shower.

IMO my experience with bantu knots has never been good. I would suggest trying to find a another style that still encourages less manipulation; maybe roller sets?

How moisturized does your hair feel from using the giovanni leave-in and castor oil? From my experience castor oil makes my ends feel good at first but eventually leaves them kind of dry and I am wondering if this is happening to you since it seems like you only redo your hair every 2-3 days.

I would experiment with different combinations of moisturizing agents. Some people love glycerin and shea butter (i.e s curl) while others like myself hate these. Maybe try using the LOC method which is what I am currently doing an love it (1. Water based leave-in, OIL, creamy thicker moisturizer).

If youre currently transitioning you may need to focus on protein at the ends of the hair and more moisture at your roots.

 

[Bublin]

I agree with @shortdub78 I think you may need more moisture and less protein. I feel you 'think' you are alternating weeks but most of your products contain protein than not.

What is your deep conditioner?

Read the labels on your Biotin shampoo and Conditioner - do they contain protein?

You are using Giovanni Direct as a daily moisturiser and that contains protein i believe.

Castor Oil is good but you may want to think about mixing it 50/50 with a lighter oil like Jojoba Oil. It wouldn't affect the sealing properties of the Castor Oil but will make it easier to apply (more slip and less rubbing into your hair which could cause breakage)

You mentioned Aphogee products too - they are protein. What products specifically in your routine are you using from their line?

You will also need to think about whether or not your hair likes glycerin. If it doesn't your hair is going to feel odd - dry, strawlike and coated feeling and break off with continued use. If it does like it apparently your hair will feel lush!

When it comes to combing i think you are doing that just fine - only on wash days and with lots of conditioner. Make sure the hair is WET with the conditioner in it as you mention sitting infront of the tv and detangling. I know my hair would dry out if i sat infront of a tv (but then i have low po hair). I don't continually douse my hair with water, sometimes just wetting the comb in the sink is good enough ( I don't stand in the shower to do my hair).
I also HIGHLY recommend Hercules Sagemann combs. I never knew a comb could make such a difference!!

I hope this helps.

 

[southerncitygirl]

ZLUVSNEWZEE

my natural hair hated giovanni direct.

here are some better alternatives to it that are natural for detangling and or moisturizing:
komaza care coconut curl lotion, also their shea butter lotion
oyin hair dew (this works better for me in summer)
qhemet biologics amla and olive heavy cream ( i moisturize with this and layer with an oil mix to seal)
darcys botanicals leave-in


i wouldn't use castor oil by itself to seal, i would cut it with other lighter weight oils like grapseed, apricot kernel, kukui, olive, coconut, etc. i would also consider mixing in an oil with it that has ceramides like hemp, wheat germ, grapeseed, sunflower, safflower, rice bran, sesame, kukui, walnut, etc. you could mix in a portion of 10-20% castor and the remainder ceramide and lighter weight oils.


if your biotin poo and condish is mill creek then they are both protein heavy all of their stuff is. don't throw it out, rotate it with other poos/condishes. i suggest giovanni for shampoo ( i use 50/50 and you can get the litres from tj maxx or marshalls for about $12) and for conditioner i like aubrey organics honeysucklerose, j.a.y (jojoba, aloe and yucca) and gbp. i think your regiie only needs slight tweaking. please trim on a regular basis ( at least every 3-4 months)....search and destroys don't count!

i'm mentioning a couple folks for you to help with your issue:
Coffee
tiffers
IDareT'sHair
Eisani
empressri

 

[southerncitygirl]

ZLUVSNEWZEE

i also forgot to mention that shedding should be taking place if you don't touch your hair all week, the strands should be the length of your hair. the average person sheds 50-100 hairs per day so you should see quite a bit of shed hair on wash day. also keep in mind that we get a little breakage no matter how gentle we are with our hair. when hair is in its natural state sometimes it can be hard to determine whats too much or too little especially if we have lots of shrinkage. this is why i go to my stylist every 3-4 months instead of every 6 for a flat-iron and trim. she actually ends up trimming less and if anything out of the ordinary occurs that i didn't catch before ( like dryness, breakage, etc.), we can nip it in the bud before it becomes a major issue months down the line.

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

are you near the ocean or desert? if closer to water, use products that have humectants in them. does your hair like glycerin, if yes, try Hawaiian Silky 14n1 or Scurl. Silk Dreams products look very moisturizing and i have noticed a lot of relaxed and transitioning ladies use the products and they seem to work very well for them. i use Keracare, Elucence, something else i am forgetting. Silk Elements conditioner is really nice as well, and since you are really with a lot of new growth, you need something that is going to give you a lot of slip. look for shampoos that are creamy, not clear unless you are clarifying.

I've tried the juices such as hawaiian silky but found I was unable to keep a curl pattern with that stuff and experienced the same breakage. I will try to go for a protein with more slip.

I agree with the bolded, look for conditioners that have the ingrediant benetrimonium sulfate/chloride which would provide tons of slip for your hair and even help with detangling, if you detangle in the shower.

IMO my experience with bantu knots has never been good. I would suggest trying to find a another style that still encourages less manipulation; maybe roller sets?

How moisturized does your hair feel from using the giovanni leave-in and castor oil? From my experience castor oil makes my ends feel good at first but eventually leaves them kind of dry and I am wondering if this is happening to you since it seems like you only redo your hair every 2-3 days.

I would experiment with different combinations of moisturizing agents. Some people love glycerin and shea butter (i.e s curl) while others like myself hate these. Maybe try using the LOC method which is what I am currently doing an love it (1. Water based leave-in, OIL, creamy thicker moisturizer).

If youre currently transitioning you may need to focus on protein at the ends of the hair and more moisture at your roots.

It feels like thats exactly what I need to do, moisturize my roots and strengthen my ends except my ends can often feel very dry. What creamy moisturizer do you use in your LOC method? Do you do this method in that order?

I agree with @shortdub78 I think you may need more moisture and less protein. I feel you 'think' you are alternating weeks but most of your products contain protein than not.

What is your deep conditioner?

Read the labels on your Biotin shampoo and Conditioner - do they contain protein?

You are using Giovanni Direct as a daily moisturiser and that contains protein i believe.

Castor Oil is good but you may want to think about mixing it 50/50 with a lighter oil like Jojoba Oil. It wouldn't affect the sealing properties of the Castor Oil but will make it easier to apply (more slip and less rubbing into your hair which could cause breakage)

You mentioned Aphogee products too - they are protein. What products specifically in your routine are you using from their line?

You will also need to think about whether or not your hair likes glycerin. If it doesn't your hair is going to feel odd - dry, strawlike and coated feeling and break off with continued use. If it does like it apparently your hair will feel lush!

When it comes to combing i think you are doing that just fine - only on wash days and with lots of conditioner. Make sure the hair is WET with the conditioner in it as you mention sitting infront of the tv and detangling. I know my hair would dry out if i sat infront of a tv (but then i have low po hair). I don't continually douse my hair with water, sometimes just wetting the comb in the sink is good enough ( I don't stand in the shower to do my hair).
I also HIGHLY recommend Hercules Sagemann combs. I never knew a comb could make such a difference!!

I hope this helps.

Yes this is very helpful. I will add the jojoba oil, sounds like a great idea. I also am not detangling on wet hair with condish, only after I sit with the condish in then I detangle. I guess I'm supposed to detangle in the beginning when I condish. I use the 2 min reconstructor I think its called and the shampoo and condish that I use is the one that they recommend.

 

[blueberryd]

Try cowashing ( ilike suave coconut) and dc weekly instead of shampoo/dc. Try shampooing every other week or 1x a month

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

@ZLUVSNEWZEE

i also forgot to mention that shedding should be taking place if you don't touch your hair all week, the strands should be the length of your hair. the average person sheds 50-100 hairs per day so you should see quite a bit of shed hair on wash day. also keep in mind that we get a little breakage no matter how gentle we are with our hair. when hair is in its natural state sometimes it can be hard to determine whats too much or too little especially if we have lots of shrinkage. this is why i go to my stylist every 3-4 months instead of every 6 for a flat-iron and trim. she actually ends up trimming less and if anything out of the ordinary occurs that i didn't catch before ( like dryness, breakage, etc.), we can nip it in the bud before it becomes a major issue months down the line.

THank you for all the info. I always feel like shedding is normal and that some breakage is normal but then you get people who never have breakage or use products to stop shedding and then you begin to wonder. Now I am in a panicked state constantly about my hair breaking. I have heard of all the products you mentioned and can't wait to get my hands on them even though they are hard to find. I have been banned from buying any more hair products by fiance though so I will try adding the what I have and doing some trial and error.
I see that you are flat ironing on a consistent basis. Does that work well for you? How often do you use heat? Do you do any protective styling? Do you have any experience with twist outs or bantu knots?

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

Try cowashing ( ilike suave coconut) and dc weekly instead of shampoo/dc. Try shampooing every other week or 1x a month

Is it okay to only wash every 2 weeks to a month and still use products?

 

[NaturalPath]

@ OP

I apply those 3 ingredients in that order.
As far as the last ingredient, I havent found a staple yet but I think anything that has a creamy consistency would work. I am using the relaxed/natural daily moisturizer just because I am trying to use the remaining amount that ive had for a while now.

On soaking wet hair I use kinky curly knot today, then I apply a small amount of oil (JBCO or grape seed) then use a creamy moisturizer. Chicoro who came up with this method uses vaseline or unpetroleum vaseline or something like that, if I can figure it out for sire ill update this post.

 

[blueberryd]

Yuppppp...the cheapie conditioners (like suave) have mild cleansing properties also. I found that for me, washing with shampoo every week really stripped my hair--which caused breakage. Def give it a try...there's a TON of info on cowashing in here

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

@ OP

I apply those 3 ingredients in that order.
As far as the last ingredient, I havent found a staple yet but I think anything that has a creamy consistency would work. I am using the relaxed/natural daily moisturizer just because I am trying to use the remaining amount that ive had for a while now.

On soaking wet hair I use kinky curly knot today, then I apply a small amount of oil (JBCO or grape seed) then use a creamy moisturizer. Chicoro who came up with this method uses vaseline or unpetroleum vaseline or something like that, if I can figure it out for sire ill update this post.

Thanks , I'll try this.

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

Yuppppp...the cheapie conditioners (like suave) have mild cleansing properties also. I found that for me, washing with shampoo every week really stripped my hair--which caused breakage. Def give it a try...there's a TON of info on cowashing in here

Thanks for this. I do fear using shampoo so often because the new growth tends to become unmanageably hard. So I think co-washing may be a good thing to add to my regimen.

 

[NIN4eva]

When I transitioned years ago (I'm relaxed now), I had to rock rollersets on perm rod sized rollers or flexirods with updo's in order to steer clear of breakage. I definitely couldn't do bantu knots. Co-washing in FANTASTIC. Also, detangling hair in the shower while the water's running through it rinsing the conditioner out really helps...also helps get conditioner and oils off of the scalp when only co-washing primarily too.

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

Does anyone recommend wearing straight hair to avoid breakage?

Sent from my LG-P509 using LG-P509

 

[Foxglove]

Does anyone recommend wearing straight hair to avoid breakage?

Sent from my LG-P509 using LG-P509

You don't need straight hair, you just may have to adapt a low/no manipulation reggie. If your hair is tightly coiled the more you manipulate the more breakage you'll have

 

[Charla]

In addition to all the advice you' ve received so far, I recommend starting from scratch by clarfying your hair before you make any other changes.

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

My hair doesn't seem tightly coiled, the curl pattern seems lose as if it were longer it wouldn't shrink but then again I am a dumb blonde when it comes to texture typing. I did just clairfy my hair at the last wash this past Sunday but I guess I'll wait until my next wash which will be sometime this week to do it again. I must feel good in my hairstyle so I have to find a style that works for me. Last night I did a twist out, no bantu knots and I love the way it looks and feels so I think I'll stick with it, there is still some breakage though. My plan is to up my moisture game and no more bantus. What do you guys think? Also I mixed my giovanni leave in with jojoba oil and castor oil and it seems good what do you guys think? My last question is if you guys think its ok to deep condish with a dryer (I just bought one) while I'm transitioning.

 

[southerncitygirl]

ZLUVSNEWZEE

twistouts are my style of choice every week ( i'm a weekly washer with sulfate free poo) until i get to the salon 3-4 months.....i used to do the salon every 6months but i'm going to go more often with the hope that over time less hair will be dusted. i'll be starting the salon more often starting this month. my retention is fine and i just discovered that moisturizing and sealing should be done to my hair 1-3 times a week has equaled less shedding, breakage & tangling. bantu knots are fine for transitioning. i would do mine on wet hair, make 2 strand twists then form the knots and secure with hairpins....the only thing that sucks though is that it takes forever to dry. the style lasted me a week and i just used a bonnet, i didn't keep redoing the knots. what conditioner would you dc with under the dryer.....regular conditioners don't become dc's cause you add heat.

 

[ZLUVSNEWZEE]

@ZLUVSNEWZEE

twistouts are my style of choice every week ( i'm a weekly washer with sulfate free poo) until i get to the salon 3-4 months.....i used to do the salon every 6months but i'm going to go more often with the hope that over time less hair will be dusted. i'll be starting the salon more often starting this month. my retention is fine and i just discovered that moisturizing and sealing should be done to my hair 1-3 times a week has equaled less shedding, breakage & tangling. bantu knots are fine for transitioning. i would do mine on wet hair, make 2 strand twists then form the knots and secure with hairpins....the only thing that sucks though is that it takes forever to dry. the style lasted me a week and i just used a bonnet, i didn't keep redoing the knots. what conditioner would you dc with under the dryer.....regular conditioners don't become dc's cause you add heat.

Yeah, I would've just used a regular condish. I didn't realize I had to use a dc. I do have an olive oil deep condish that I can use but I haven't used the dryer just yet. I ususally don't like to do bantus on wet hair just because it doesnt dry. What DC do you recommend for a transitioner?

 

[adamseve]

@OP,

WOW...You must have read my mind! I'm having the same problem with my hair although it is growing. I never, ever had breakage while relaxed, but I've noticed more small pieces in the last 2 months.

Our routine is almost identical except that I baggy my hair a least 2x week. Also, I do use moisturizing shampoo, Kimmaytube LIC, & combination oils to seal (castor oil, hemp seed oil, jojoba, EVOO & EVCO). I apply protein treatments (egg & mayo) at least every 6 weeks.


I noticed that the difference is I never, ever combed my hair when relaxed, and the only time it ever saw a comb was at the stylist every 2 weeks for my rollerset. I also noticed that during that time I always moisturized it overnight with IC Fantasis nightly moisturizer.

I did notice that the conditioner I used to detangle was not providing enough slip so that may be one problem. Second, even though as I was styling my hair I kept it moist it may not have been wet enough to deter breakage. So, I'm going to start styling ahead of time and stop blotting the hair before styling. It may take longer to dry but I think it will help with the breakage. I also noticed that even though I only detangled under running water & put my hair in twists to keep it tangle free my hair drys quickly. Hence, I felt compelled to detangle again when...Too much manipulation I'm guessing and not enough wetness.

I'm also going to change my routine. Instead of washing & DC every week I'm going to every 2 wks, going back to using the IC Fantasia moisturizer, & focusing on moisturizing my roots more.

Your post helped me tremendously as I learned a few things to look for in the conditioners for more slip and a few other tips. Let's hope things turn around for both of us soon!

 

[klsjackson]

I was acing this problem recently and no matter what products I used or how gentle I was with my hair it was still breaking. After some board research I realized my porosity was off. I've used PC & FPS to correct the porosity and my breakage has stopped.

 

[adamseve]

I was acing this problem recently and no matter what products I used or how gentle I was with my hair it was still breaking. After some board research I realized my porosity was off. I've used PC & FPS to correct the porosity and my breakage has stopped.

Thanks for sharing this info. Porosity huh? I'll check that too. BTW, what is PC & FPS?