Your Dealbreakers

[aribell]

Thanks everyone for the responses and conversation. I have a specific question that's kind of bothering me. I'm not sure whether I'm being overly demanding/picky (I've been called both before) or just sensible.

So, this young man is definitely a Christian, his mother is a pastor, grew up in church, gives sermonettes during special services, does his devotionals, leads Bible study sometimes, prays, all that. We're good friends and I know he takes the Word seriously and we have conversations about it, about what we learned in church, and also about lifestyle stuff, like our thoughts on adultery, premarital sex (which he's against), getting drunk, etc.

In so many ways he has my trust and respect, and yet, I really am bothered by different things he chooses to participate in or watch. For instance, he told me about a Cinco de Mayo 7-hour bar crawl he went on, that he said he didn't get drunk during (though he was "less than sober"), but which also involved everyone around him being drunk. He also said that one of his favorite movies that he likes to watch repeatedly is "The 40 Year-Old Virgin" which, when I watched, I was honestly scandalized by...and it generally takes a lot. I know it's just a movie, but I still feel that it has to reflect something about his character, I just don't know what.

Plus, he seems to wait for me to say what should happen next, and that bothers me also from a spiritual/relationship leadership perspective. Not that he'd go along with anything I said, but he'll just wait for me to say what needs to be said, and I find that quite irksome and slightly worrying.

In light of the big picture I wonder if I shouldn't get over it/let it go. At the same time, I feel like it's so easy to become hardened to the Spirit's voice, and I don't want to start accepting things that I'd long since rejected before he came along. Plus, I feel kind of hypocritical since I can't say that everything I see/watch is pristine, either. Thoughts?

 

[inthepink]

Nicola,

I can understand where you're coming from.

The first thing that came to mind was to start paying attention to yourself and the things you might be doing that you aren't ok with. For example, you said how it bothers you that he'd watch movies like 40-year-old virgin but meanwhile you know that you also watch things that might not be appropriate (not calling you out b/c I am the same!). And then once you give some thought to those things (or maybe you know them off-hand), you and he can have an honest discussion about them.

My guess is that if you even have in your mind that you have an uneasy feeling about some of the things you watch (like something is telling you that you shouldn't be watching that), then ask yourself why and will you continue to do so?

Talk to him to find out if those things he mentioned even bother him. Does he have any sense of feeling like something isn't quite right with watching those things or doing pub crawls? If he doesn't, I would probably be a bit concerned and would want to know why.

My guess is that no one has ever questioned him on it so he never thought about it or he just never got a "feeling" about it.

Also, I guess we are all different about what bothers us and what doesn't.

Some things I watched in the past, I would no longer watch now. Still, there are things are watch now that I haven't yet been convicted about no longer watching.

I probably didn't give you a clear answer but just some things to think about.

 

[PaperClip]

Thanks everyone for the responses and conversation. I have a specific question that's kind of bothering me. I'm not sure whether I'm being overly demanding/picky (I've been called both before) or just sensible.

So, this young man is definitely a Christian, his mother is a pastor, grew up in church, gives sermonettes during special services, does his devotionals, leads Bible study sometimes, prays, all that. We're good friends and I know he takes the Word seriously and we have conversations about it, about what we learned in church, and also about lifestyle stuff, like our thoughts on adultery, premarital sex (which he's against), getting drunk, etc.

In so many ways he has my trust and respect, and yet, I really am bothered by different things he chooses to participate in or watch. For instance, he told me about a Cinco de Mayo 7-hour bar crawl he went on, that he said he didn't get drunk during (though he was "less than sober"), but which also involved everyone around him being drunk. He also said that one of his favorite movies that he likes to watch repeatedly is "The 40 Year-Old Virgin" which, when I watched, I was honestly scandalized by...and it generally takes a lot. I know it's just a movie, but I still feel that it has to reflect something about his character, I just don't know what.

Plus, he seems to wait for me to say what should happen next, and that bothers me also from a spiritual/relationship leadership perspective. Not that he'd go along with anything I said, but he'll just wait for me to say what needs to be said, and I find that quite irksome and slightly worrying.

In light of the big picture I wonder if I shouldn't get over it/let it go. At the same time, I feel like it's so easy to become hardened to the Spirit's voice, and I don't want to start accepting things that I'd long since rejected before he came along. Plus, I feel kind of hypocritical since I can't say that everything I see/watch is pristine, either. Thoughts?

WHY do we (general use of term) focus on things we CANNOT control?

The bolded speaks VOLUMES about where this brother's mind is..... He's not sitting around wondering about what you're doing and whether or not the activities you're engaging in are lawful and/or expedient to your salvation/Christian walk. He's very clear about what he's doing. He likes his bar crawls and post-college frat boy movies. How can two walk together except they be agreed? He's not even trying to find/make agreement with you about the current or next level of you all's relationship/interactions.

I just had a conversation with a sisterfriend from church about leaders and leadership. I've seen a person get in the pulpit and preach the saints to the ceiling but outside the pulpit? Yikes!

I am not trying to be a dream buster. I am saying that when people (regardless of relationship) show you who they are by what they do, BELIEVE THEM and govern yourself accordingly.

 

[inthepink]

WHY do we (general use of term) focus on things we CANNOT control?

The bolded speaks VOLUMES about where this brother's mind is..... He's not sitting around wondering about what you're doing and whether or not the activities you're engaging in are lawful and/or expedient to your salvation/Christian walk. He's very clear about what he's doing. He likes his bar crawls and post-college frat boy movies. How can two walk together except they be agreed? He's not even trying to find/make agreement with you about the current or next level of you all's relationship/interactions.

I just had a conversation with a sisterfriend from church about leaders and leadership. I've seen a person get in the pulpit and preach the saints to the ceiling but outside the pulpit? Yikes!

I am not trying to be a dream buster. I am saying that when people (regardless of relationship) show you who they are by what they do, BELIEVE THEM and govern yourself accordingly.

Well, this is it!! I believe this says it all!

You're so right that we can't control people. We can't "make" them see that something they are doing is not quite right - or maybe just not right for us. If we don't like it and it bothers us THAT much, then we probably just need to move on!

 

[aribell]

WHY do we (general use of term) focus on things we CANNOT control?

The bolded speaks VOLUMES about where this brother's mind is..... He's not sitting around wondering about what you're doing and whether or not the activities you're engaging in are lawful and/or expedient to your salvation/Christian walk. He's very clear about what he's doing. He likes his bar crawls and post-college frat boy movies. How can two walk together except they be agreed? He's not even trying to find/make agreement with you about the current or next level of you all's relationship/interactions.

I just had a conversation with a sisterfriend from church about leaders and leadership. I've seen a person get in the pulpit and preach the saints to the ceiling but outside the pulpit? Yikes!

I am not trying to be a dream buster. I am saying that when people (regardless of relationship) show you who they are by what they do, BELIEVE THEM and govern yourself accordingly.

This is fair enough. I know how he is, and don't think I can change him, nor would I want to. For me, the question is whether my standards are biblical or not, as I don't want to be looking back later saying "Well, that wasn't that big of a deal after all." Your point is very well taken, though.

 

[inthepink]

This is fair enough. I know how he is, and don't think I can change him, nor would I want to. For me, the question is whether my standards are biblical or not, as I don't want to be looking back later saying "Well, that wasn't that big of a deal after all." Your point is very well taken, though.

I think it's a big deal. Honestly, if you were married, how would you feel about having a husband who wanted to do pub crawls? Even if it was only occasionally?

Maybe it bothers you. Maybe it bothers me. Maybe it doesn't bother someone else. Who knows? I guess we all have different things we can tolerate or not - dealbreakers.

 

[PaperClip]

I think it's a big deal. Honestly, if you were married, how would you feel about having a husband who wanted to do pub crawls? Even if it was only occasionally?

Maybe it bothers you. Maybe it bothers me. Maybe it doesn't bother someone else. Who knows? I guess we all have different things we can tolerate or not - dealbreakers.

The bolded is where the imagination can get one into trouble. This person has not given (based on what's been shared so far) ANY INDICATION of being marriage minded toward nicole. But that's what we (Christian) women do.... we put all our focus and energies on ONE prospect while our male counterparts will have more than one sister on the roster (prospects). And there's nothing wrong with having prospects...as long as all minds are clear about it...no intention to deceive. And technically, if the brother has NOT said anything directly about wanting exclusivity and subsequent plans about said exclusivity, then has he intended to deceive?

I'm just sharing it like this because I'VE BEEN THERE. And I put myself through so much unnecessary drama because of it. Now I've learned that I don't have to guess about a prospects affections/inclinations toward me.

 

[aribell]

I think it's a big deal. Honestly, if you were married, how would you feel about having a husband who wanted to do pub crawls? Even if it was only occasionally?

Maybe it bothers you. Maybe it bothers me. Maybe it doesn't bother someone else. Who knows? I guess we all have different things we can tolerate or not - dealbreakers.

Well, that was exactly my feeling. I just wanted to get some outside perspectives to be sure.

I should also add that when he told me about it, he wasn't really nonchalant about it, he wanted to know what I felt about it and I was honest, and he said he appreciated me telling him that. Like I mentioned, we talk about our spiritual lives, and he talks constantly about how he wants to grow into a better Christian constantly, and also how he's going about doing that.

I'm not saying at all that that excuses anything, since I had pretty much made up my mind before posting that I was going to cut things off with him. But people are dynamic, and I would be one prone to make a quick judgment and dismiss too quickly. So, stopping to think about it more is a good check for me.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[inthepink]

Well, that was exactly my feeling. I just wanted to get some outside perspectives to be sure.

I should also add that when he told me about it, he wasn't really nonchalant about it, he wanted to know what I felt about it and I was honest, and he said he appreciated me telling him that. Like I mentioned, we talk about our spiritual lives, and he talks constantly about how he wants to grow into a better Christian constantly, and also how he's going about doing that.

I'm not saying at all that that excuses anything, since I had pretty much made up my mind before posting that I was going to cut things off with him. But people are dynamic, and I would be one prone to make a quick judgment and dismiss too quickly. So, stopping to think about it more is a good check for me.

Thanks for the responses.

I'm glad you shared - I always have questions and this one that you brought up gives me lots to think about and consider. So, thank you for posting it!

 

[aribell]

The bolded is where the imagination can get one into trouble. This person has not given (based on what's been shared so far) ANY INDICATION of being marriage minded toward nicole. But that's what we (Christian) women do.... we put all our focus and energies on ONE prospect while our male counterparts will have more than one sister on the roster (prospects). And there's nothing wrong with having prospects...as long as all minds are clear about it...no intention to deceive. And technically, if the brother has NOT said anything directly about wanting exclusivity and subsequent plans about said exclusivity, then has he intended to deceive?

I'm just sharing it like this because I'VE BEEN THERE. And I put myself through so much unnecessary drama because of it. Now I've learned that I don't have to guess about a prospects affections/inclinations toward me.

Okay, some clarifications might be in order. I started to write them, but took it out since I didn't want to get sidetracked into my love life! We have talked explicitly about exclusivity. He has said that he wants a relationship with me. No, I didn't have to ask him if that's what he wanted, he brought it up. The particular issue at hand happens to be distance...so another conversation needs to be had about how to go about that. Yes, he waits too long to do anything about it, which irritates the heck out of me and reflects poorly on him. For that reason alone I would have left him alone.

Also, I know the church is full of hypocrites, and that church involvement doesn't a disciple make. I tried to convey that this really isn't the case here. He walks the Christian walk...but there are a couple of very specific things that I've taken issue with.

Just want to be clear!

 

[aribell]

The bolded is where the imagination can get one into trouble. This person has not given (based on what's been shared so far) ANY INDICATION of being marriage minded toward nicole. But that's what we (Christian) women do.... we put all our focus and energies on ONE prospect while our male counterparts will have more than one sister on the roster (prospects). And there's nothing wrong with having prospects...as long as all minds are clear about it...no intention to deceive. And technically, if the brother has NOT said anything directly about wanting exclusivity and subsequent plans about said exclusivity, then has he intended to deceive?

I'm just sharing it like this because I'VE BEEN THERE. And I put myself through so much unnecessary drama because of it. Now I've learned that I don't have to guess about a prospects affections/inclinations toward me.

ETA: Also, and I hesitate somewhat to say it, but I feel that honesty is the better way. I have more than once decided that I would cut off my friendship with this person because he was not quite up to my standards, and on two separate occasions, my sister's pastor, who has a prophetic ministry, spoke to me specifically about my feelings without me mentioning anything whatsoever and told me essentially that yes, this man was the one, that I was being judgmental, that good things take work (contrary to my belief that they should come together easily), and that marriage was not on the horizon just now, but rather friendship. This woman has some kind of gift, as she read my heart like a book and told me everything about myself, things that not even the closest person to me knows. Also, I have dreams that come to pass, and had one very soon after we became friends that clearly involved marriage. And, my best friend (a very godly woman) mentioned before anything ever even started between this guy and I that she thought I should marry him. At that point, he was just a mutual acquaintance and I had said nothing to her yet of a developing interest. Given the multiplicity of confirmations (particularly those outside of myself), I would feel silly questioning it at this point.

Trust me, I've done all I can to let this thing go, but it keeps following me. The Lord is not the author of confusion, and yet the only way I can interpret these things is similar to what Chicacanella mentioned earlier, that if this man is truly who the Lord has, then He will work it out. It would be one thing if he were an unbeliever or completely living in sin, as we know that the Lord would never ordain something that is completely against his commandments, i.e. marrying an unbeliever. I will be the very first to say how crazy Christian women can be about saying a certain man is their husband, and I've tried to find wisdom, but I can't say I understand what I'm supposed to do when there are plenty of less mature/obedient Christians than this man, but I'm still saying that he doesn't quite meet my standards. Add to that the specific word of a former pastor of mine that I would always feel a greater sense of conviction about the things of the Lord than my husband and all this leads me to think that maybe this is it and I need to chill.

Sorry if I've confused the issues here. I guess I asked about dealbreakers when I really should have asked about interpreting the Lord's voice and what to do when what you believe is God ordained does not look like what you expected. I don't pretend to have the wisdom to know the answer to this.

 

[kayte]

that's what I had in mind.

not switching your automatic car seats back
bottom toothpaste squeezer
toilet seat up
moody upon waking

but I maintain there ARE honest guys....
who not only are honest but value honesty as a means of bonding..of intimacy who have a vested interest in sharing the loaded stuff to get even closer to their soulmate
and really risk..themselves....
that's deep

that's the man I want

sneaking onto a porn site...is not honest..
and I don't even want a man who is drawn to that
in anyway or fantasy..etc...

I know there's some tolerance for it...
and it's seen by some as harmless entertainment
and the wife can join in ..so it's becomes a "couple's activity"
or she looks the other way
in the dont ask dont tell syndrome

blah blah blah

YUCK

it's infidelity.....and a def deal breaker

 

[kayte]

wow..Nicole I hadn't even read your above post... I was responding to gnv-
but how interesting you mention honest

I was going to say in response to this

he didn't get drunk during (though he was "less than sober"),

that's the definition of and from someone who was drunk...but in denial
less than sober..means
NOT sober
which = drunk

I guess I asked about dealbreakers when I really should have asked about interpreting the Lord's voice

I think they are the same... Nicole
The Spirit of God handwrites our desires and dealbreakers
HIS voice in your dealbreakers
re-read them... they are good ones

but with this man...he's not perfect...clearly
but for now..let go of his Christian label... for just a moment
it's trapping you...

do find him distasteful or an annoyance or dislike him?
then end the friendship...if it's meant to be and he grows up
anything is possible..

but if the person is contributing negative energy and stress
let him go....

do you see him as brother who would not be your mate..
but a friend on some level you can connect with?
just not in every or most things?
then connect on the level...you can!
be it bible study or church ..etc

do you think you should be considering a courtship with him
{you don't have to answer}...given all the human logic
even so it does not seem like either of you
are there..or available for that ...with each other today

the confusion is coming from trying to force an outcome to be confirmed RIGHT NOW
and frustration that signs have not shaped themselves into 'proper equation'
but God's ways are not ours.....

Live in the day.....because biblically that's what we do
you don't care for him in a help-meet way though you feel you should....
so release THAT...expectation perhaps
rather than ...perhaps the person and keep asking for wisdom

 

[PaperClip]

ETA: Also, and I hesitate somewhat to say it, but I feel that honesty is the better way. I have more than once decided that I would cut off my friendship with this person because he was not quite up to my standards, and on two separate occasions, my sister's pastor, who has a prophetic ministry, spoke to me specifically about my feelings without me mentioning anything whatsoever and told me essentially that yes, this man was the one, that I was being judgmental, that good things take work (contrary to my belief that they should come together easily), and that marriage was not on the horizon just now, but rather friendship. This woman has some kind of gift, as she read my heart like a book and told me everything about myself, things that not even the closest person to me knows. Also, I have dreams that come to pass, and had one very soon after we became friends that clearly involved marriage. And, my best friend (a very godly woman) mentioned before anything ever even started between this guy and I that she thought I should marry him. At that point, he was just a mutual acquaintance and I had said nothing to her yet of a developing interest. Given the multiplicity of confirmations (particularly those outside of myself), I would feel silly questioning it at this point.

Trust me, I've done all I can to let this thing go, but it keeps following me. The Lord is not the author of confusion, and yet the only way I can interpret these things is similar to what Chicacanella mentioned earlier, that if this man is truly who the Lord has, then He will work it out. It would be one thing if he were an unbeliever or completely living in sin, as we know that the Lord would never ordain something that is completely against his commandments, i.e. marrying an unbeliever. I will be the very first to say how crazy Christian women can be about saying a certain man is their husband, and I've tried to find wisdom, but I can't say I understand what I'm supposed to do when there are plenty of less mature/obedient Christians than this man, but I'm still saying that he doesn't quite meet my standards. Add to that the specific word of a former pastor of mine that I would always feel a greater sense of conviction about the things of the Lord than my husband and all this leads me to think that maybe this is it and I need to chill.

Sorry if I've confused the issues here. I guess I asked about dealbreakers when I really should have asked about interpreting the Lord's voice and what to do when what you believe is God ordained does not look like what you expected. I don't pretend to have the wisdom to know the answer to this.

Ok... so noted....

With all this said, I encourage you to be even more mindful about everything concerning this situation so that you will know without a shadow of a doubt which way the Lord would have you to go. Because with all the prophecies, words of exhortation, etc. that are spoken out, the enemy hears things as well and can make something (or someone) look SO CLOSE to the real thing....

...so with all those words that have gone forth concerning this thing, put them on the shelf and let the Lord have His perfect work.... Because if it's the Lord orchestrating this thing, He doesn't need any help...and, dare I say, when it's the Lord, there's peace all around it....