Keeping the Old Testament laws?

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blazingthru said:
Here is the thing.

Grace has always been here it is not a new thing. Genesis 6:8
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

fulfillment does not mean the end of something. Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness’ sake; He will magnify the law, and make it honorable. Jesus magnified the Law or expounded upon it. What we do not follow anymore is the ceremonial laws. What most folks do not understand is that God is Law, his kingdom is about Laws and Satan said we don't need them and we should not have to follow Laws, when our very existence relies on the Law. We have laws that govern our country. We follow those Laws are take the consequences. The only Law everyone seems to have problem is the Sabbath. No other Law is more argue against but the Sabbath.

He blotted out all of the shadows of things to come. The ordinances that had to do with the blood offerings, the meat and drink offerings, the seven special feast days, the entire old covenant system were all blotted out the moment Jesus died.

The new covenant is not some new law nor even a change in the law of God, but it is the law of God written in the heart and in the mind. Christ died to pay the penalty of sin. He lived to provide the power over sin in the life. When we come to Him and accept of His life and death in our behalf, He forgives us our past sins. But He does not stop there. He replaces our old life with His new life. He does not merely take the past and then leave us a spiritual vacuum. In the place of the life of sin, He writes His Laws, His character into our minds and into our hearts. By His law we are directed in our love to our God and to our fellow man. The law of God becomes our standard of living. It is more than creed or form. It is the direction of the life.

this is Christ's covenant with Christians. It is made only with those whose sins are confessed and thus forgiven. The old life is buried with the Saviour who died and was buried to purchase our redemption. The new life is motivated by His indwelling power, directed by His commandments.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." We then keep His commandments not to be saved but as an evidence that all are saved through the blood of Christ and that He has given us a new life and a new heart.

Psalms 51:10: "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:17, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.

Revelation 22:14
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[a] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
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Amen. God is the same yesterday, today AND forever.
 
Rom 8:14-15

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” (ESV)

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. (KJV)
 
Gal 5:1

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. (ESV)

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. (KJV)
 
Gal 5:3

I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. (ESV)

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. (KJV)
 
Gal 5:4

You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. (ESV)

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (KJV)
 
1 Cor 13:9

For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. (ESV)

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (KJV)
 
Heb 10: 8-10


Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.(KJV)

When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.(ESV)
 
There is a distinction between the law of Moses (10 commandments) and Jesus.

Heb 10:28-29
He that despised Moses 'law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 11:39-40
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
 
Heb 8:6-7

But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
 
Heb 6:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
 
Heb 8:13

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
 
blazingthru said:
Ceremonial Laws. All that you posted is once again the ceremonial Laws.
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Please stop adding things to the Bible that's not there... The Bible does not tell us that only the ceremonial laws passed away. You are adding that so that it fits in line with what you already believe. The entire old covenant has been replaced by the new.
 
Leigh said:
There is a distinction between the law of Moses (10 commandments) and Jesus.

Heb 10:28-29
He that despised Moses 'law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 11:39-40
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Click to expand...

The Law of Moses, interesting that you said that you know that they are two laws, one that Moses commanded and one God commandment, both from God but yet both different. One would come to an end. The other is for eternity. What Moses wrote was placed on the outside of the ARK, it is the Ceremonial Laws, or Ordinances, which by the way, we still use from time to time. if you read them you would see that they do have some use, even today.
Deuteronomy 31:24–26
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, 26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.



What God wrote was placed on the inside the ARK, it is a testimony by which He will judge. Exodus 25:16
16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Because they ... had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers’ idols. Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live” (Ezekiel 20:24, 25). Observe carefully how the prophet identifies the Sabbath law, and then immediately says, “I gave them ALSO statutes that were not good.” Keep in mind that the Ten Commandments were called “holy, and just, and good” (Romans 7:12). Because of its curses and judgments against their continual disobedience, the law of Moses was “against” them and was “not good.

This is not THE SABBATH command.

Well I have already posted a reply to all of these statements you have made.
I went to a funeral today of a young boy sweet as pie, mischievous but we loved him, it was very heart broken, but he loved the Lord, his favorite commandment was the 5th Commandment. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, but he looked at it differently. he said we get another life, That was the one thing I took from that. NO need to explain anymore. It was powerful that he said it. he was 11 years old.
 
MrsHaseeb said:
Please stop adding things to the Bible that's not there... The Bible does not tell us that only the ceremonial laws passed away. You are adding that so that it fits in line with what you already believe. The entire old covenant has been replaced by the new.
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Really, No that is correct the Ceremonial Laws were nailed to the cross they were against us, Not the commandments and this is my only comment to you, as we have already discussed this and I commented already that your scriptures were taken out of context. In this we will not agree. Paul clearly says the Law was HOLY, Just and Good. So then that tells us that the Law is perfect, well what Law was not perfect, more study is needed to find the Law that was against us. So no I did not add and would never try to make something fit what I believe. I would condemn my own-self, but I get what you did not say as well.

Romans 7:12
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
 
blazingthru said:
Ceremonial Laws. All that you posted is once again the ceremonial Laws.
Click to expand...

????? SMH Not true.

Jeremiah 31:31

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.



We are cautioned against adding to or taking away from the bible.

Revelations 22:18-19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:2
You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you.

This command is referenced several times throughout the bible.
 
blazingthru said:
Really, No that is correct the Ceremonial Laws were nailed to the cross they were against us, Not the commandments and this is my only comment to you, as we have already discussed this and I commented already that your scriptures were taken out of context. In this we will not agree. Paul clearly says the Law was HOLY, Just and Good. So then that tells us that the Law is perfect, well what Law was not perfect, more study is needed to find the Law that was against us. So no I did not add and would never try to make something fit what I believe. I would condemn my own-self, but I get what you did not say as well.

Romans 7:12
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
Click to expand...

Blazingthru I am simply telling you the truth. The reason we don't keep the 'law' in the New Covenant is because the law is written in our hearts. When Christ is in us and living through us we are righteous because of Him and His righteousness establishes the law. The Bible never says the law was the issue so yes it's holy. It was our sinful nature that was the issue. That was not solved by Christ coming to take away the ceremonial laws. It was solved by Christ coming to give us a new nature through His Spirit. No born again believer is disobeying God if they walk in the Spirit. That's what you're missing. As I stated before, you simply need to be born from above and receive Christ's nature in you. You're either under law or under grace. You can't mix the two. And if you're trying to keep the law, you will be judged by the entire law. If you'll be prepared for that judgment, then by all means, continue to keep the law. But don't judge others who choose to live by the Spirit as a new testament believer should.
 
I have a ?. In my post I pointed out that Jesus followed the laws statues and commandments laid out in the OT

Why shouldn't we? Wasn't Jesus' life an example of how we should live our lives

Once again like all things in the Bible, if there is doubt why not do it?

It can't hurt...right?

But instead it seems the majority never is on the same page and justify the opposite? Not downing anybody but idk....just had to get that off my chest

Hopefully I'm making sense
 
SimplyBlessed said:
I have a ?. In my post I pointed out that Jesus followed the laws statues and commandments laid out in the OT

Why shouldn't we? Wasn't Jesus' life an example of how we should live our lives

Once again like all things in the Bible, if there is doubt why not do it?

It can't hurt...right?

But instead it seems the majority never is on the same page and justify the opposite? Not downing anybody but idk....just had to get that off my chest

Hopefully I'm making sense
Click to expand...

Hi SimplyBlessed. The reason Jesus followed the old Testament law is because he was born under the law. He was the Christ, the fulfillment of the OT was in Him. The new testament could not come into effect until Jesus Christ died.

Hebrews 9:14-17 KJV
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? [15] And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [16] For where a testament is , there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Christ had to die before there could be a new covenant. He was the Word made flesh and was sinless so He could keep the law. We cannot. We need a nature change through the Holy Spirit. A believer who has the Holy Spirit does not need OT laws.
 
Nice & Wavy said:
You deserve a big ole :kiss:!!!!!

This is one of the best letters that I have read regarding this matter...ever.

The way it was explained, helped me to understand something....:yep:

Great information!!!

Thank you so much!
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Lol Nice & Wavy. Yes she does!!! I enjoyed reading the website.
 
SimplyBlessed said:
I try to follow the laws statues and commandments laid out in the OT

The bible say Jesus did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill the law therefore the laws are still to be placed

Jesus was an example of how they should have been followed . If Jesus followed them why shouldn't I?
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you are so right, especially when it comes to the feast days:

Passover- Monday march 25, 2013 sundown and ends: Tues, march 26, 2013 sundown

feast of unleavened bread- begins:(1st night) tues march 26, 2013 @ sundown and ends : wed, march 27,2013 @ sundown

feast of unleavened bread- (7th night) begins : mon, april 1,2013 @ sundown and ends: tues, april 2, 2013 @ sundown

Pentecost- begins: SAT, MAY 18, 2013 @ sundown and ends MAY 19,
2013 @ sundown

the memorial of the blowing of the trumpets-
begins: thurs, sept 5, 2013 sundown and ends: sun, sept 6 2013, @ sundown

the day of atonement-
begins: sat, sept 14, 2013 @ sundown and ends: sun sept 15, 2013 @ sundown

feast of tabernacles (1st night)-
begins: thur sept 19, 2013@ sundown and ends: fri, sept 20, 2013 @ sundown

the 8th day, that great day of the feast-
begins: thur, sept 26, 2013 @ sundown and ends: fri, sept 27, 2013 @ sundown
 
Shimmie said:
Here's an interesting article. :yep:

Are Old Testament Laws Still Binding on Christians?

http://www.gci.org/law/otlaws
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" Instead, the new has replaced the old (Hebrews 10:9), and we focus on the spirit rather than the letter. Of course, it is true that in some cases the proper spirit will cause us to keep the letter, but in other cases it is not true.
Consider the spirit of adultery, for example. If we avoid lust, then we will also (without any need for a written law) avoid physical acts of adultery. The letter of this law is still valid. If we do not covet, then we will (without any need for a written law) not steal. This law is also valid in the letter. If we are not angry at our brother, we will (without any need for a written law) not murder. Again, the letter is valid. Keeping the spirit of the law has thwarted these sins at their very source."

The above is a quote from Shimmie 's article.

The bolded is how I think about the Sabbath. Is the significance in the actual day? Saturday? Or is it in the purpose of a day, to rest? Keeping the Sabbath Holy...is that becuase Saturday in and of itself has value (is holy) or is the command to set apart a day for specific rest and reverance of God? I believe that the intent of the command was for us to purpose in our hearts to cease from working (for our own physical good) and to use that time to acknowledge God. So weather you do that on Saturday, Sunday, or Tuesday...its not the actual day of the week that matters...its the intent of the heart.
 
CoilyFields said:
" Instead, the new has replaced the old (Hebrews 10:9), and we focus on the spirit rather than the letter. Of course, it is true that in some cases the proper spirit will cause us to keep the letter, but in other cases it is not true.
Consider the spirit of adultery, for example. If we avoid lust, then we will also (without any need for a written law) avoid physical acts of adultery. The letter of this law is still valid. If we do not covet, then we will (without any need for a written law) not steal. This law is also valid in the letter. If we are not angry at our brother, we will (without any need for a written law) not murder. Again, the letter is valid. Keeping the spirit of the law has thwarted these sins at their very source."

The above is a quote from @Shimmie 's article.

The bolded is how I think about the Sabbath. Is the significance in the actual day? Saturday? Or is it in the purpose of a day, to rest? Keeping the Sabbath Holy...is that becuase Saturday in and of itself has value (is holy) or is the command to set apart a day for specific rest and reverance of God? I believe that the intent of the command was for us to purpose in our hearts to cease from working (for our own physical good) and to use that time to acknowledge God. So weather you do that on Saturday, Sunday, or Tuesday...its not the actual day of the week that matters...its the intent of the heart.[/QUOTE]

It's been a while since I've posted here but wanted add some input. I agree with your comment on obedience to the law/commandments by the spirit or heart. If we are truly obedient to the Father it was manifest outwardly. The Messiah tells us how the new covenant is written in our hearts. Obedience comes from within, because of our love for the Father.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

The portion I bolded in your statement is not true. No one in scripture has EVER been given authority to change the Sabbath. It is the 7th day (Saturday) since creation. Our father rested on the 7th day and we were commanded to keep it and remember it. Pay attention to Matthew 5:19. We are commanded to NOT teach people to break the commandments which includes the Sabbath. It is time for us to awake out of the traditions we've inherited and pay attention.

Matthew 5:17-19
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Heaven and Earth have not passed away. All has not been fulfilled, so we are commanded to keep the Commandments.

Even Paul, as most people like to use to justify breaking the laws states in Romans 2:13 "for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the Doers of the Law will be justified."

1 John 5:2-3
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

Revelation 14:20
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Yahusha."
Click to expand...
 
I honestly see both sides of the debate. It's Mrs.Haseeb and Shimmie make a very convincing and clear case, but on the other side, if we are to keep old testament laws, why is the Sabbath and meats, the only ones people choose to observe? What about all the other ones? That's where it gets sticky and folks are butting heads. Either it's changed or it's not and if it is, keep all, not just some.
 
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