Homosexuality and Old Testament v. New Testament Law?

[divya]

Girl it's too late and my brain is shutting down but I'll post them tomorrow. Tooo much reading and thinking
Do any JW's post here? Maybe they can explain the some Sat. some Sun. thing?

True! How long have we been at this? Have a good night!

Who knows, maybe there will be some JW's will post by the morning...

 

[discobiscuits]

Okay, I'm having a problem with something.

It is often said that we are under the "new testament law" and that the laws in the Old Testament no longer apply.

For instance in Old Testament law...I was not allowed to eat shrimp or wear clothes made of mixed fabrics, etc.

There are a lot of laws in leviticus that the Israelites were called to follows.

Today if a christian wants to eat a pork chop they'll remind people that although the old testament prohibited it, we are no longer under the old testament law.

I've heard:



NOW here is my dilemma.

If you believe that we are not under old testament law and that old testament law was abolished:

How do I explain to homosexuals WHY being homosexual is STILL wrong since the command to refrain from it was discusssed in Leviticus which is an old testament book and we are under new testament law?

I need a direct answer as direct as possible, please.

Hi.

I'm addressing the bold. I did read most posts and skimmed some others so if the following has been posted before, please forgive my overlooking it.

As it relates to addressing homosexuals about new testament teaching I like this passage:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

My favorite part is the blue...we WERE and now we are washed and sanctified. I also like that this passage pretty much includes everyone and supports other passages where we are told that all have sinned and fallen short. I think part of people's animosity toward gays is that the OT says that it is an abomination so I think some people improperly use that as a license to come down harder on a gay than say an adulterer or thief.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

We humans categorize and place value on sins. God does not.
To humans one sin, say murder, is worse than say fornication or lying. To God all sin is unrighteousness and one is no more or less so. He sees all sin as equal. The only other sin in question is the unpardonable one and that I believe refers to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Sidebar:
As to things like what we eat, Jesus said that it is what comes out of our mouths not what goes in that defiles us.

Matthew 15:18
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Matthew 15:20
These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Mark 7:15
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Mark 7:18-23
18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; 19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? 20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, F26 wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Mark 7:19
For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

 

[HWAY]

I know some JW congregations meet on Saturday but they are not Sabbath keepers. Sometime several congregations share the same kingdom Hall so some congregations meet on Sunday and one may meet on Saturday. One is likely to find a meeting any day (or night) of the week in a city with a lot of Jehovah's Witnessess. They believe being a Christian is a way of life, not reserved for one or two days a week.

JWs believe Christians are no longer under the law (Gal 3:24).

 

[gone_fishing]

Hi.

I'm addressing the bold. I did read most posts and skimmed some others so if the following has been posted before, please forgive my overlooking it.

As it relates to addressing homosexuals about new testament teaching I like this passage:

My favorite part is the blue...we WERE and now we are washed and sanctified. I also like that this passage pretty much includes everyone and supports other passages where we are told that all have sinned and fallen short. I think part of people's animosity toward gays is that the OT says that it is an abomination so I think some people improperly use that as a license to come down harder on a gay than say an adulterer or thief.

We humans categorize and place value on sins. God does not.
To humans one sin, say murder, is worse than say fornication or lying. To God all sin is unrighteousness and one is no more or less so. He sees all sin as equal. The only other sin in question is the unpardonable one and that I believe refers to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Sidebar:
As to things like what we eat, Jesus said that it is what comes out of our mouths not what goes in that defiles us.

Awesome post! Thank you!

 

[DonnaDi31Proverbi]

Hi.

I'm addressing the bold. I did read most posts and skimmed some others so if the following has been posted before, please forgive my overlooking it.

As it relates to addressing homosexuals about new testament teaching I like this passage:

My favorite part is the blue...we WERE and now we are washed and sanctified. I also like that this passage pretty much includes everyone and supports other passages where we are told that all have sinned and fallen short. I think part of people's animosity toward gays is that the OT says that it is an abomination so I think some people improperly use that as a license to come down harder on a gay than say an adulterer or thief.

We humans categorize and place value on sins. God does not.
To humans one sin, say murder, is worse than say fornication or lying. To God all sin is unrighteousness and one is no more or less so. He sees all sin as equal. The only other sin in question is the unpardonable one and that I believe refers to blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Sidebar:
As to things like what we eat, Jesus said that it is what comes out of our mouths not what goes in that defiles us.

Amen, so true!

 

[tffy2004]

I think it is soooo funny how all that profess to follow the Messiah and obey the ten commandments and read from the same bible have such polarized views on the Sabbath and other hot topics.

As for the original question, I feel that the answer is very simple. It all goes back to creation. When God created all that he created he made only two people in the beginning Adam (male) Eve (female). Which set up how sexuality was meant to be and nature was supposed to be. Had he wanted us to be with the same sex I honestly think he would have created two females and two males and been like ya'll do what you want and figure it out for yourselves. But he didn't, he set us an example by creating one female and one male.

The Messiah warns us not to think that he came to abolish the laws (commandments/moral laws) but to fulfill them (Sacrificial laws/commandments/moral laws). He was the Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins. Before the Messiah was made flesh we had to sacrifice animals for our sins. After he was sacrificed we don't have to do that anymore which is why him being crucified takes away only sacrificial laws. Homosexuality has nothing to do with sacrificial laws, I don't think, so homosexuality is still not of God and its an abomination to him.

How did the Messiah fulfill the Commandments and Moral laws? He obeyed them.
How did the Messiah fulfill the sacrificial laws? He was sacrificed/crucified.

Anyway, Great thread!!

 

[alexstin]

I think it is soooo funny how all that profess to follow the Messiah and obey the ten commandments and read from the same bible have such polarized views on the Sabbath and other hot topics.

As for the original question, I feel that the answer is very simple. It all goes back to creation. When God created all that he created he made only two people in the beginning Adam (male) Eve (female). Which set up how sexuality was meant to be and nature was supposed to be. Had he wanted us to be with the same sex I honestly think he would have created two females and two males and been like ya'll do what you want and figure it out for yourselves. But he didn't, he set us an example by creating one female and one male.

The Messiah warns us not to think that he came to abolish the laws (commandments/moral laws) but to fulfill them (Sacrificial laws/commandments/moral laws). He was the Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins. Before the Messiah was made flesh we had to sacrifice animals for our sins. After he was sacrificed we don't have to do that anymore which is why him being crucified takes away only sacrificial laws. Homosexuality has nothing to do with sacrificial laws, I don't think, so homosexuality is still not of God and its an abomination to him.

How did the Messiah fulfill the Commandments and Moral laws? He obeyed them.
How did the Messiah fulfill the sacrificial laws? He was sacrificed/crucified.

Anyway, Great thread!!

It's so obvious.

 

[Farida]

Okay, I'm having a problem with something.

It is often said that we are under the "new testament law" and that the laws in the Old Testament no longer apply.

For instance in Old Testament law...I was not allowed to eat shrimp or wear clothes made of mixed fabrics, etc.

There are a lot of laws in leviticus that the Israelites were called to follows.

Today if a christian wants to eat a pork chop they'll remind people that although the old testament prohibited it, we are no longer under the old testament law.

I've heard:



NOW here is my dilemma.

If you believe that we are not under old testament law and that old testament law was abolished:

How do I explain to homosexuals WHY being homosexual is STILL wrong since the command to refrain from it was discusssed in Leviticus which is an old testament book and we are under new testament law?

I need a direct answer as direct as possible, please.

There is a DIRECT reference to homosexuality in the NT.

 

[Crown]

Interesting view. I agree that Jesus is our Savior. Keeping God's Sabbath along with all other Commandments - in my understanding - is evidence that we remember His sacrifice and following Him out of love. Do you have any verses that show that every day has been set aside to be treated holy like the 7th Day Sabbath?

Jehovah Witnesses around me keep Sunday. I didn't know any of them kept Sabbath. There aren't listed among the Sabbath keeping faiths. I'll keep them in mind though...thanks!

Hebrews 4 (especially verse 7), Acts 15 (especially verse 28-29)
For OP about homosexuality: 1 Cor 6:9, 1 Tim 1:9-10, Rom 1:24-28

 

[divya]

I know some JW congregations meet on Saturday but they are not Sabbath keepers. Sometime several congregations share the same kingdom Hall so some congregations meet on Sunday and one may meet on Saturday. One is likely to find a meeting any day (or night) of the week in a city with a lot of Jehovah's Witnessess. They believe being a Christian is a way of life, not reserved for one or two days a week.

JWs believe Christians are no longer under the law (Gal 3:24).

That's what have I known about JW - they are Sunday keepers.

Christianity is a way of the life for Sabbath-keepers. Just because we keep the 7th-day Sabbath as God instituted, as opposed to Sunday, does not mean that our faith is reserved for one day. One is likely to find those of my faith meeting any day (or night) of the week, and also adhering to certain health counsel etc. Do you believe Sunday keepers reserve their faith for one day a week? Just wondering...

 

[Caramela]

I'm joining late but I do have some scriptures to add that may be beneficial to all. Romans 1: 24- 32
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


God is not pleased with homosexuality. Point blank.

As far as NT laws and OT laws, Jesus came to fufill a prophesy of the OT being put to rest and a new law (or new testament) being put into place. A testament is a will, and will can not go into effect until the testator (in this case, Jesus) died.
Though all scripture is useful for us 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: The scriptures show that the OT was not to be the law we follow and that it was to eventually perish.But as for the laws that we are to follow, those come from the New Testament are written for Christians (not Jews, as the OT laws were written for).
Here is proof scripturally that the OT laws were to be replaced and are no longer in effect.

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Hebrews 8:7-13

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Showing that this will be a covenant or testament that's all inclusive, not just for the JEWS

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In the old testament God was not merciful, or forgiving.

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.And when would it "vanish" away? With the death of Jesus so that a new testament could take the place of the old.

 

[divya]

^^^
But how can one state the God was not merciful or forgiving in the Old Testament? God is the same yesterday, today and always. God was more than merciful or forgiving to Israel, who continuous broke His Commandments. Yet He loved and cared for them. Human disobedience was the reason why God made a second covenant with us. God intended that human follow the first covenant by faith but we failed to do that. So He gave a second covenant so that we may be able to do so. God's ways are perfect. It is we who often fall short...

That is why Hebrews 8:8 says finding fault with THEM and it also states in verse 9 that "THEY continued not in my covenant."

Also when we read Hebrew 8-10, we realize that the first covenant focused on sacrificial and ceremonial laws. Christ's death did away with those. His blood is sufficient and there is no need for the blood of animals. The moral law, God's Commandments, not done away with, which is why it is repeated in the second covenant.

"Here is the patience of the saints, here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." Rev.14:12

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Rev. 22:14


For those who believe that the Commandments are no more, how do you interpret the word "commandments" in the second covenant? Such as in the verses above or in the verses that quote the Ten Commandments in the second covenant...

 

[Caramela]

^^^
But how can one state the God was not merciful or forgiving in the Old Testament? God is the same yesterday, today and always. God was more than merciful or forgiving to Israel, who continuous broke His Commandments. Yet He loved and cared for them. Human disobedience was the reason why God made a second covenant with us. God intended that human follow the first covenant by faith but we failed to do that. So He gave a second covenant so that we may be able to do so. God's ways are perfect. It is we who often fall short...

That is why Hebrews 8:8 says finding fault with THEM and it also states in verse 9 that "THEY continued not in my covenant."

Also when we read Hebrew 8-10, we realize that the first covenant focused on sacrificial and ceremonial laws. Christ's death did away with those. His blood is sufficient and there is no need for the blood of animals. The moral law, God's Commandments, not done away with, which is why it is repeated in the second covenant.

"Here is the patience of the saints, here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." Rev.14:12

"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." Rev. 22:14


For those who believe that the Commandments are no more, how do you interpret the word "commandments" in the second covenant? Such as in the verses above or in the verses that quote the Ten Commandments in the second covenant...

God was not merciful and forgiving in the first covenant. If the people that HE chose to be his own did not obey, the penalties often included death. There was no repentance in the old testament. There was no asking God for forgiveness... if you sinned God just simply turned away from you and refused to hear what you had to say. (Isaiah 59:1-2 1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. That is not the way things are now through Christ.

The scriptures I gave you specifically say that. I cannot dispute scriptures. Hebrews 8:7 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. So there was obviously some "fault" with the Old Testament. And why would God have his people following a faulty law? Doesn't make sense does it?


Instead of God selecting a people, now people are given the free-will to obey God. So they follow his commandments out of love and not just obligation.

 

[Crown]

^^^
For those who believe that the Commandments are no more, how do you interpret the word "commandments" in the second covenant? Such as in the verses above or in the verses that quote the Ten Commandments in the second covenant...

For a christian, there is more than ten Commandments. For example:
Jhn 13:14-15 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.
Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 

[discobiscuits]

God was not merciful and forgiving in the first covenant.

Actually He was merciful and forgiving. That is why the priests had to make intercession for the people, used a scape goat, and if God accepted the sacrifice, the people were forgiven. If not, He killed the priest.

Instead of God selecting a people, now people are given the free-will to obey God. So they follow his commandments out of love and not just obligation.

Humans have always had free will to dis/obey God since Adam & Eve were created. They were the 1st to exercise that will and sin against God. Sin is a willful act, one cannot sin if s/he does not have the free will to do so.

As for being under grace, it appears that Jesus explained that the OT commandments were still in effect.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Matthew 22:36-40[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.[/FONT]

 

[Caramela]

Actually He was merciful and forgiving. That is why the priests had to make intercession for the people, used a scape goat, and if God accepted the sacrifice, the people were forgiven. If not, He killed the priest.<<< We don't have to sacrifice animals or worry about being struck dead ... through Jesus we can be forgiven and our sins remembered no more. God is much more forgiving under the new testament.
Humans have always had free will to dis/obey God since Adam & Eve were created. They were the 1st to exercise that will and sin against God. Sin is a willful act, one cannot sin if s/he does not have the free will to do so. <<<<< Yes people have always had free will concerning their actions. What I am refering to is God basically said "ok, Jews, you are my chosen people" without them having a say in the matter. So basically if they didn't want to be one his chosen people, then tough luck for them. They had better obey, or risk the consequences for their disobedience. These days a person can obey God of their own free-will. Meaning, God doesn't select a group of people and MAKE them be his chosen people.

As for being under grace, it appears that Jesus explained that the OT commandments were still in effect.

<<<< Yes, when Jesus walked the earth, the OT laws were indeed still in effect. Again, for a testament (or will) to be inforced, the testator must die. Testator for the new testament being Jesus.

 

[Evolving78]

wow! you guys are teaching me today! continue...

 

[divya]

For a christian, there is more than ten Commandments. For example:
Jhn 13:14-15 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.
Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Of course there is. The Bible teaches many lessons and gives a plethora of counsel. Why not do our best to live by at all? As Christians, we should live by the light that we have...all the light.

Speaking of washing each other's feet, does your faith do footwashing? Mine does as part of communion, but I was wondering if any other faiths do as well...

 

[Ms.Honey]

I ain't washing nobody's feet. That was done because they wore sandals and would step in dung because of all of the animals out and about. As a show of hospitality the host would wash their guests feet. It was a tradition. Jesus did it to teach us to do unto others as we would have Jesus do unto us.

 

[divya]

I ain't washing nobody's feet. That was done because they wore sandals and would step in dung because of all of the animals out and about. As a show of hospitality the host would wash their guests feet. It was a tradition. Jesus did it to teach us to do unto others as we would have Jesus do unto us.

We do it to show that we love others as Christ loves us. It's showing of humility. As you mentioned, when Christ washed the disciples feet, there was even more going on than just the tradition.

I love it. It does humble in a special way. It's nice to grab a visitor and make sure that someone washes their feet. It makes people feel like part of the family of God...

 

[discobiscuits]

<<<< Yes, when Jesus walked the earth, the OT laws were indeed still in effect. Again, for a testament (or will) to be enforced, the testator must die. Testator for the new testament being Jesus.

If i infer your post correctly, you are saying that the OT commandments including the "10" commandments are no longer in effect and no longer apply to NT Christians since Jesus has died. Please correct me if I inferred incorrectly.

Because...

If what I infer from your post is correct then that means I can disregard everything Paul taught in Romans 7, 13 and Ephesians 6. I also surmise that if Jesus' "death" freed us from the law, then I can commit any or all of the OT sins, and then go to God and ask forgiveness and all will be okay. In fact I would not have to ask for forgiveness because I would not have sinned because the commandments/OT law are no longer in effect.

In Jude there is a warning to beware of people who teach us that grace means we can do what we want.

Jude 1:4
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality...

I also assume based on how I understand your post that the book of Revelations would be irrelevant.

Please let me know if I got that right or if I have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I honestly do think I've misunderstood your post.

 

[discobiscuits]

I totally missed this:

<<< We don't have to sacrifice animals or worry about being struck dead ... through Jesus we can be forgiven and our sins remembered no more. God is much more forgiving under the new testament.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]I disagree, as would [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Ananias and his wife Sapphira[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica], in [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Acts 5:1-11. They fell dead because they lied. This event occurred after Christ's resurrection. I interpret that to mean that people under grace can still get "struck down" dead.

We do not have to sacrifice animals anymore because Jesus was the perfect sacrifice. That does not exempt us from obeying God.

In my opinion, God is the same yesterday, today and forever so he is just as forgiving now as He was then. In God there is no change. The difference is because in the OT mankind demanded rules and leaders, God gave them what they asked for. In the NT the only change is we no longer need a priest to make intercession for us, the wall of partition is gone and we have an Advocate to the Father who makes intercession for us. If God was not as forgiving in the OT he would never have spared the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah, he would have denied Lot's request to save the people therein.




[/FONT]

 

[discobiscuits]

Romans: 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

God is not pleased with homosexuality. Point blank.

Regarding natural affection: The bold means that mankind lacked the basic human care one for another a.k.a. compassion and empathy.

Regarding homosexuality:I submit that God is not pleased with any sin, and as it relates to homosexuality, He is not pleased with ANY sexual sin.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jude1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion (this includes all sexual sins). They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.[/FONT]

 

[discobiscuits]

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Hebrews 8:7-13

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Showing that this will be a covenant or testament that's all inclusive, not just for the JEWS

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In the old testament God was not merciful, or forgiving.

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.And when would it "vanish" away? With the death of Jesus so that a new testament could take the place of the old.

As it relates to the above. The covenant spoken of is about the one w/ Aaronic preisthood mediated by Moses. Jesus is now our mediator.

As it relates to new and better and passing away w/ the death of Jesus, it means that Levitical order or priesthood is gone. Instead of an ark w/ tablets in it and rules on stone that same law in the OT is now written on our hearts. The OT law of Moses could not make men perfect (meaning complete & ready for eternal life). I added Paul's commentary in one of my other posts about how the knowledge of the law taught people of sin and w/o it he would not have known what sin was.

I may agree that the old is passed and the new is in effect but I see too many references to the law and the prophets in the New that tell me that we are to still abide by the commandments and that we do so by what I said in my earlier posts.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the law and he taught us while he was here how to obey the law he fulfilled. Just because he no longer walks this earth does not mean that his instructions are no longer to be obeyed or enforced.

 

[Caramela]

JenniferohJenny, I'm sorry but I don't have the energy in me to do the quotes and answer that way b/c there were so many responses. I hope you understand
I don't think you misunderstood me, it's probably my fault. Maybe I was a little too vague. But I'll be happy to clarify. In saying that the OT laws are no longer applicable, I am in no way saying that this is a license to go out and do the opposite of those laws and just ask for forgiveness and everything is ok. No. I certainly don't agree with that. But the whole premise of the 10 commandments and other sacrements and laws is that they were not held in the hearts of the people. They were not being obedient for the right reason. Many of the laws in the OT are repeated and even more strict than those in the OT... for example, the 10 commandments tells a person not to committ adultery but in the NT we are told that a man shouldn't even look upon a woman with lust in his eyes lest he committ adultery... another example is in the 10 commandments we are told not to kill, but the NT says not to be jealous, envious, hate, have malice etc... So we still have similar expectations. The difference is, that when we do sin, we can repent and ask for forgiveness. True Godly sorrow = repentance. Repentance doesn't mean a person can do whatever they please and just take forgiveness for granted.
I hope that helps.
It is understood that God is not pleased with any sin, or any sexual sin. But for the intents and purposes of the OP's question, I addressed homosexuality. How I know the scripture I referenced regarding unnatural affections refers to homosexuality can be explained in the surrounding text. It says something to the effect of men turning from the affection of women and to the lusting of men (paraphrasing) ...

 

[discobiscuits]

To Caramela from JOJ:

Oh, OK.

 

[Crown]

Speaking of washing each other's feet, does your faith do footwashing? Mine does as part of communion, but I was wondering if any other faiths do as well...

YES!

I ain't washing nobody's feet. That was done because they wore sandals and would step in dung because of all of the animals out and about. As a show of hospitality the host would wash their guests feet. It was a tradition...

It was not tradition. The tradition was to wash feet and hands BEFORE eating: Luk 7:44 And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped [them] with the hairs of her head.
But Jhn 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], to betray him;
Jhn 13:3 He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
Jhn 13:5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel wherewith he was girded.
Jhn 13: 14-15 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
It's about humility and compassion!
But we are hijacking the thread, sorry!
Blessings

 

[MrsQueeny]

Of course there is. The Bible teaches many lessons and gives a plethora of counsel. Why not do our best to live by at all? As Christians, we should live by the light that we have...all the light.

Speaking of washing each other's feet, does your faith do footwashing? Mine does as part of communion, but I was wondering if any other faiths do as well...

We do as well. My church is of the Christian faith. Q

 

[Cichelle]

It's always interesting to me when Christians think Jews need blood sacrifice for atonement/forgiveness...or that the Tanakh says this is the only way, even in biblical times. There is a lack of understanding in regards to Judaism, Tanakh, Hebrew language and etc.

Just for the record, we (Jews) don't need blood of any kind to atone and be forgiven.

 

[Caramela]

It's always interesting to me when Christians think Jews need blood sacrifice for atonement/forgiveness...or that the Tanakh says this is the only way, even in biblical times. There is a lack of understanding in regards to Judaism, Tanakh, Hebrew language and etc.

Just for the record, we (Jews) don't need blood of any kind to atone and be forgiven.

I know this is a Christianity forum, but if I'm not overstepping my bounds by asking, what exactly do Jews believe in terms of Christ? Are Jews still awaiting a messiah?