Keeping the Old Testament laws?
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Galadriel
Well-Known Member
I don't follow the dietary or ritual laws that have been dispensed with since Christ instituted the New Covenant, however I do follow the eternal moral law God set forth in the Decalogue (Ten Commandments). I refrain from unnecessary work on Sunday (the Lord's Day) and go to Church, and read Scripture and devotional books.
CoilyFields
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the ten commandments...not the dietary or ritual laws. Though I think its important to understand if there was a principle behind that law that we should still uphold today in those ritual/dietary laws.
Most of those laws were set up for the preservation of Gods chosen people and to set them apart from the heathen nations around them.
Most of those laws were set up for the preservation of Gods chosen people and to set them apart from the heathen nations around them.
The Ten Commandments.
The Dietary Laws, we follow for fasting or for doing a cleanse, outside of that , my family and I eat vegetarian because we enjoy fruits and vegetables and the health benefits (not because of OT laws). Fish and poultry are added at random.
The Dietary Laws, we follow for fasting or for doing a cleanse, outside of that , my family and I eat vegetarian because we enjoy fruits and vegetables and the health benefits (not because of OT laws). Fish and poultry are added at random.
blazingthru
Well-Known Member
Yes all of the Laws of the Old Testament that were put inside of the ark, I still follow.
But I had to seriously sit down and study it, not only did I study it from the bible I studied it on the outside, for instance, I researched what each animal that we are forbidden to eat, eats. After doing that research it was easy as pie to walk away. However, I learned about the dietary Laws in 2009. I had given up Pork and all Seafood 6 years before. But I dranked wine and I had coffee and other things that are dangerous to my health. I have walked away from all of it in 2009.
We keep the Sabbath, its not easy keeping the Sabbath around my family but for us we keep it. My family does not. Will not even listen or discuss it. Most of my friends and other family members will not even consider keeping it. Well what can they say when God ask. its the fourth commandment it is holy. We can't just make up any day and say its holy. Because that is the day that God said is holy that is the day that represents him. It is his sign.
I use to get mad about it but I don't anymore. It was not easy for me to accept at first but I kept searching it out there was a burning in my heart. It kept me searching and searching and asking the hard questions and I received every single answer to every single question ever said about the Sabbath or the fourth commandment. I accept it, what I get mad about is people not searching it out for themselves, with a sincere heart.
But the fact of the matter is God commands us to obey him. Making excuses to not obey him well, there is a reward and a punishment.
The churches are teaching that we are not under the Law but under Grace, which means we are not under an obligation to obey God's Law. Really?
Matthew 5:17
Christ Fulfills the Law
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. (make full)
Matthew 3:13-17
John Baptizes Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21
New King James Version (NKJV)
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Psalm 40:8
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”
If your not willing to do the will of God, you can't come to the kingdom. Why? you bring rebellion, and God has said sin will never rise again.
But I had to seriously sit down and study it, not only did I study it from the bible I studied it on the outside, for instance, I researched what each animal that we are forbidden to eat, eats. After doing that research it was easy as pie to walk away. However, I learned about the dietary Laws in 2009. I had given up Pork and all Seafood 6 years before. But I dranked wine and I had coffee and other things that are dangerous to my health. I have walked away from all of it in 2009.
We keep the Sabbath, its not easy keeping the Sabbath around my family but for us we keep it. My family does not. Will not even listen or discuss it. Most of my friends and other family members will not even consider keeping it. Well what can they say when God ask. its the fourth commandment it is holy. We can't just make up any day and say its holy. Because that is the day that God said is holy that is the day that represents him. It is his sign.
I use to get mad about it but I don't anymore. It was not easy for me to accept at first but I kept searching it out there was a burning in my heart. It kept me searching and searching and asking the hard questions and I received every single answer to every single question ever said about the Sabbath or the fourth commandment. I accept it, what I get mad about is people not searching it out for themselves, with a sincere heart.
But the fact of the matter is God commands us to obey him. Making excuses to not obey him well, there is a reward and a punishment.
The churches are teaching that we are not under the Law but under Grace, which means we are not under an obligation to obey God's Law. Really?
Matthew 5:17
Christ Fulfills the Law
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. (make full)
Matthew 3:13-17
John Baptizes Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21
New King James Version (NKJV)
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Psalm 40:8
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”
If your not willing to do the will of God, you can't come to the kingdom. Why? you bring rebellion, and God has said sin will never rise again.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
so when you say Sabbath, is it Saturday or Sunday?
Blackpearl1993
Well-Known Member
I must confess that I have to constantly ask God to help me observe the Sabbath. We do attend church as a family, and I try to remember to prepare as much as I can the night before (food, clothes, items for the children/hubby for the following week). Often I feel like I fall short/forget something and then I end up having to do certain things around the house for basic functioning during the day. I am a work in progress! We do choose not to attend other types of events on Sundays that we do not consider to be restful.
JaneBond007
New Member
I saw something recently from a catholic reverend who had written about the Sunday Sabbath from a few years ago and in it he admonished people who work on Sunday. What I most remember about the article was that Jesus still wants the Sabbath observed and that it is the catholic's obligation and that to fail to observe it was playing with one's salvation. Eye-opening...but in another way for me.
I'm 'there' as well.
One thing is certain, God knows you as a faithful Wife, Mother and His Daughter whose heart is drawn towards Him no matter what.
southerncharm
New Member
well it's simple, just stand there & really look at your calendar, if you have to just stare at it for a few minutes(lol).
start counting at the first day, that's sunday, okay why do we jump from sunday to Monday as the first day of the week, it's like we skip over sunday & then jump to Monday & start counting, & then jump back to sunday.
there, you have your answer count straight from sun-sat don't skip over sunday & start at monday, you'll get your Sabbath - on Saturday.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
well it's simple, just stand there & really look at your calendar, if you have to just stare at it for a few minutes(lol).
start counting at the first day, that's sunday, okay why do we jump from sunday to Monday as the first day of the week, it's like we skip over sunday & then jump to Monday & start counting, & then jump back to sunday.
there, you have your answer count straight from sun-sat don't skip over sunday & start at monday, you'll get your Sabbath - on Saturday.
I was asking because there seems to be some conflict in Christianity, where some keep Sunday and others keep Saturday.
blazingthru
Well-Known Member
So, so, so sorry, I should have been very clear. The Sabbath is Saturday, it can never ever be on Sunday. Because then it would not be God's holy day.
Sure people get angry and upset about it but Sunday is not a holy day and no matter how much folks want it to be it will never be. If you study out the Sabbath you will see why its very important that you worship on that day (Saturday) you can worship any day, but the Holy day is Sabbath, actually Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.
The Sabbath is blessed by God it is his seal. Period whether folks want to accept it or not. It is his seal. Sunday just won't do. Now my suggestion is those who really believe Sunday is a holy day need to sit and study hard the Sabbath. God has a blessing for you just from searching out the scriptures which he desires of you. Which is why the bible is not an easy read. its design for research and digging. You want the treasure you have to dig hard for it.
www.sabbathtruth.com
Yes I am a Seventh Day Adventist, but I searched the scriptures and I studied this out way before I decided to become an Adventist. That study lead me to them, not the other way around. What I learned from the SDA was that it enhanced my own studies, I ended up with more questions but each and every single question I had, the bible had an answer for it. But you know I joined this board in 2005, I did not convert until 2009
One very important thing. Satan counterfeits everything that God has said which makes sense, he rebelled against God did he not. Well I know that if I did not want to completely obey my parents I looked for a loophole in what they say. Well Satan changes the Law to make it easier for folks to sin. point blank period.
In Exodus 20:8 We see that not only did God himself write the Laws, he spoke them. He blessed the Seventh Day and Hallowed it. He also said remember because folks forgot.
Exodus 20 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
18 Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. 19 Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.”
We worship on the Sabbath because it points to the one and true and only God. He says he made heaven and earth, no other God can make claim to it yet we have so many other "Gods" that people worship. When we worship on the true Sabbath we are saying that we believe that you are the one and true God. So we become eligible to receive the seal of God.
MrsHaseeb
Well-Known Member
Somehow I knew this would turn into something about the Sabbath day and when is the correct Sabbath. That's why I refrained from coming back to comment at first... People, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law. Get in Christ and be Spirit led. Keeping a Sabbath and 10 commandments will not take you to heaven. You must be born again. Law keeping doesn't make one born again. Sabbath worship doctrine is something to simply take the focus off Jesus Christ and put it back on law. This is what Paul was fighting against in the entire new testament. What born again believer needs 10 commandments to tell them not to lie, steal, or commit adultery? Not one! Because when you receive the Holy Spirit God's law is in your heart and you will obey him because you're led if his Spirit. God's seal is NOT the Sabbath. God's seal the Holy Spirit, spirit filled believers, living righteous in Christ Jesus. Anyone who desires to keep laws needs one thing... To be born again of the Spirit of God and become the righteousness of God IN Christ Jesus. That will alleviate the need for a law. The law is made for people who are not born again because they don't have the nature of God, not for righteous people.
1 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; [9] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, [10] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; [9] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, [10] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
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Kurlee
Well-Known Member
This is a very interesting perspective. You should not be reluctant to discuss this conflict, because it is very real and it may help others (contributors and lurkers). To be honest, all of the other commandments are pretty cut and dry. That one seems to be a point of contention for people. So i'm assuming that you do not adhere to old testament laws?
MrsHaseeb
Well-Known Member
blazingthru, I’m sorry but your entire post incorrect according to scripture. First off, the true Sabbath absolutely is Saturday, not Sunday. But that’s totally irrelevant. New Testament believers are never commanded to keep a Sabbath though there is absolutely nothing wrong with observing the Sabbath if a person chooses to do so. Christ didn’t even keep the Sabbath correctly according the Pharisees. New Testament believers worship in Spirit and truth. That's why the idea of a holy day for new testament believers makes no sense. The Sabbath is not God’s seal. You can’t find that anywhere in the New Testament at all.
Colossians 2 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
The Sabbath was not even the Old Testament seal, circumcision was.
Romans 4 9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
According to the above verses, circumcision was the seal of the Old Testament which becomes a circumcision of the heart of the believer in the New Testament and God’s law is written in the heart by the Spirit.
Romans 2 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
Rejection of a Christian being under law saying they need to keep a Sabbath has nothing to do with rejecting truth because Christ Jesus is truth. Anybody trying to keep the 10 commandments is under a curse because you are trying to keep the law rather than becoming the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Galatians outlines this perfectly. Quote all the old testament you want about the Sabbath, Paul makes it plain in Colossians that the Sabbath and the entire law was just a shadow of what was to come, which was Christ. It’s outright denial of Christ to try and go back to keeping 10 commandments rather than abiding by the law of the Spirit which is in the heart of real believers. Thinking that keeping a Sabbath is God’s seal is deception, plain and simple. It’s denial of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 1 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Sabbath worship does not point to the true and living God, righteousness by the Holy Spirit does.
2 Timothy 2 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[c] depart from iniquity.”
The Sabbath was made for man, to rest and reflect on God. Rest is now spiritual and in Jesus Christ. Turning Sabbath worship into a denomination (I like to call them” Demon”inations) is heresy. Let’s get a real picture of what should be told to New Testament believers.
Acts 15 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. [g] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
When the Jews tried to place laws on the Gentile believers this is what they were told by Peter. The main thing that was said here is to stay away from idolatry. It’s amazing how little is said. Peter also says trying to force Gentile believers to keep the law is putting a yoke on them... Law puts you in bondage. If that same situation occurred today, you’d get a myriad of answers that have nothing to do with a person’s salvation such as church sacraments, Sabbaths, church tradition and a bunch of stuff that doesn’t matter. Law takes us away from the simplicity in Christ. Anybody under the law… get to Jesus and be led of the Spirit.
Galatians 3 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
Galatians 4 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the[d] two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Galatians 5 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
I can assure everyone, when the fiery wrath of God starts falling in this place for all the abominations going on, Christ will not be looking for Sabbath keepers. He will be looking for those sealed with His Spirit.
In conclusion, the old testament law is holy. But it must be understood that being Spirit led, the standards are much higher than the law. This is already long but I may come back and comment.
Colossians 2 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
The Sabbath was not even the Old Testament seal, circumcision was.
Romans 4 9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
According to the above verses, circumcision was the seal of the Old Testament which becomes a circumcision of the heart of the believer in the New Testament and God’s law is written in the heart by the Spirit.
Romans 2 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.
Rejection of a Christian being under law saying they need to keep a Sabbath has nothing to do with rejecting truth because Christ Jesus is truth. Anybody trying to keep the 10 commandments is under a curse because you are trying to keep the law rather than becoming the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus by the Holy Spirit. Galatians outlines this perfectly. Quote all the old testament you want about the Sabbath, Paul makes it plain in Colossians that the Sabbath and the entire law was just a shadow of what was to come, which was Christ. It’s outright denial of Christ to try and go back to keeping 10 commandments rather than abiding by the law of the Spirit which is in the heart of real believers. Thinking that keeping a Sabbath is God’s seal is deception, plain and simple. It’s denial of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 1 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Sabbath worship does not point to the true and living God, righteousness by the Holy Spirit does.
2 Timothy 2 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ[c] depart from iniquity.”
The Sabbath was made for man, to rest and reflect on God. Rest is now spiritual and in Jesus Christ. Turning Sabbath worship into a denomination (I like to call them” Demon”inations) is heresy. Let’s get a real picture of what should be told to New Testament believers.
Acts 15 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. [g] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
When the Jews tried to place laws on the Gentile believers this is what they were told by Peter. The main thing that was said here is to stay away from idolatry. It’s amazing how little is said. Peter also says trying to force Gentile believers to keep the law is putting a yoke on them... Law puts you in bondage. If that same situation occurred today, you’d get a myriad of answers that have nothing to do with a person’s salvation such as church sacraments, Sabbaths, church tradition and a bunch of stuff that doesn’t matter. Law takes us away from the simplicity in Christ. Anybody under the law… get to Jesus and be led of the Spirit.
Galatians 3 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
Galatians 4 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the[d] two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Galatians 5 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
I can assure everyone, when the fiery wrath of God starts falling in this place for all the abominations going on, Christ will not be looking for Sabbath keepers. He will be looking for those sealed with His Spirit.
In conclusion, the old testament law is holy. But it must be understood that being Spirit led, the standards are much higher than the law. This is already long but I may come back and comment.
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MrsHaseeb
Well-Known Member
No. I do not follow old testament law. I follow the law if the Spirit. I am born again and I do not need to be told not to lie, steal, bear false witness or worship false gods. The Holy Spirit changes a persons character and nature and when we submit to Him, he transforms us. Keeping the law is for people trying to establish their own righteousness.
Romans 10:1-5 KJV
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. [2] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. [3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. [5] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
I may come back later with more info.
MrsHaseeb and blazingthru ...
The two of you give me 'life'. Here's why.
You do not take God's Grace for granted. You are both no-nonsense. You speak your heart and make NO excuses for it.
As I said above, you give me life. And I love both of you. Thank you for just 'standing' for the God we serve. I am so tired of the compromisers, the middle ground, the 'evolved' or the evolving or as Elijah said, those who 'halt' between two opinions.
Here' the thing. You don't play. Neither of you. You don't play. You seriously take God serious and you do not hold back on your faith.
The two of you have one stand and that's God. I love it and again, I love both of you.
Continue with your discussion. I'm listening and again, I thank you, both.
Love,
Shimmie
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Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
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MrsHaseeb
Well-Known Member
Girl, you are going to be beating a dead horse.
When people have a train of thinking such as this, its unhealthy to continue on with trying to teach them. If the Holy Spirit hasn't been able to do it, none of us can. When people reject the Word of God in its entirety, its like arguing with someone who is in solitary confinement.
I thank you for your posts today....it reminded me of my Old Testament law classes....those classes were really good.
God bless you!
N&W
Lol. I agree. I post for the babes in Christ who may be mislead by that stuff. I have presented the truth, that's all I can do.
Iwanthealthyhair67
Well-Known Member
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Hi sweetie
How are you doing?
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
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Kurlee
Well-Known Member
thanks
Iwanthealthyhair67
Well-Known Member
Hi sweetie
Hi Dear Sis,
All is well, I pray the same for you and your family...happy that you popped in to say hi, missed you much
in these parts.
Nice & Wavy
Well-Known Member
Wonderful! I am well...very busy this Summer teaching a wonderful class to some great people!Hi Dear Sis,
All is well, I pray the same for you and your family...happy that you popped in to say hi, missed you much
I missed you too
JaneBond007
New Member
I can comprehend you, very much. To Jews, Saturday is the eternal Sabbath. However, to reflect the resurrection of Jesus, christians came to the conclusion through earlier church council (and to somewhat alienate themselves from traditional Jews (something I don't quite agree with in its entirety) that it is to be Sunday. I know why they did it. The aftermath of that decision has produced some harshness against Jews throughout the centuries, and against christians as well. But looking at Jesus, the pure decision for it is to honor the day He resurrected. That, for christians, is the most honorable thing. SDA follow the Noachide laws to some extent, so I can see how they would only have the Shabbos Saturday.
I think there needs to be gentleness in looking at this and much understanding for why and how it came about. If you conclude that Sunday cannot ever be holy, then one would also have to conclude, according to rabbinic Jewish law that Jesus isn't the Messiah and that non-Jews should not observe Shabbos period. In fairness, that argument could stand. But being that SDA believe He is the Messiah and share with other believers across all denominations, there should be gentleness and understanding.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Scriptures such as Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, and Revelation 1:10 indicate that, even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lord’s day, Sunday, instead.
The early Church Fathers compared the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of the rite of circumcision, and from that they demonstrated that if the apostles abolished circumcision (Gal. 5:1-6), so also the observance of the Sabbath must have been abolished. The following quotations show that the first Christians understood this principle and gathered for worship on Sunday.
The Didache
"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).
The Letter of Barnabas
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).
Ignatius of Antioch
"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).
"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).
Tertullian
"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).
The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).
Origen
"Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).
Victorinus
"The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished" (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).
The early Church Fathers compared the observance of the Sabbath to the observance of the rite of circumcision, and from that they demonstrated that if the apostles abolished circumcision (Gal. 5:1-6), so also the observance of the Sabbath must have been abolished. The following quotations show that the first Christians understood this principle and gathered for worship on Sunday.
The Didache
"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).
The Letter of Barnabas
"We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).
Ignatius of Antioch
"[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
"[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . ." (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).
"But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).
Tertullian
"[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God" (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).
The Didascalia
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).
Origen
"Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection" (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).
Victorinus
"The sixth day [Friday] is called parasceve, that is to say, the preparation of the kingdom. . . . On this day also, on account of the passion of the Lord Jesus Christ, we make either a station to God or a fast. On the seventh day he rested from all his works, and blessed it, and sanctified it. On the former day we are accustomed to fast rigorously, that on the Lord’s day we may go forth to our bread with giving of thanks. And let the parasceve become a rigorous fast, lest we should appear to observe any Sabbath with the Jews . . . which Sabbath he [Christ] in his body abolished" (The Creation of the World [A.D. 300]).
MrsHaseeb
Well-Known Member
Some of what you posted only applies to Catholics and everyone on here is not Catholic. Please remember that before posting those things. Also, the apostles did not abolish circumcision, Jesus did when he came to fulfil the law. The Old Testament circumcision became a circumcision of the heart which had nothing to do with the apostles and everything to do with Jesus Christ. They simply understood it because they were spiritually minded. The apostles had no authority to change the Sabbath and quite frankly, it was pointless to do so. The early believers met everyday many times and due to persecution and many of them moving frequently I don't believe anybody got together among them and came up with some official worship day. Worship is in Spirit and in truth. These writings came much later and there was already apostasy by that time.
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