Are We To Blame? Online Vendors

[Bette Davis Eyes]

I think we as a whole do not realize the power we have in stopping a lot of the foolishness that goes on with these online vendors.

If you go to a store and don't like the item, you have the chance to either return it or get store credit. Why is it when we spend so much money ordering online, due to the nature of natural handmade products, we cant at least get store credit on an item?

Why are we accepting 6 months shelf life for products? Why? You paid good money for that item. If you buy something out of the store, does it come with a warning that its going to expire in 6 months so its on you?
Why are we accepting that if a product separates after it arrives, we arent reaching out to the vendors to get the situation corrected?

What do you think WE need to do as a whole to get what we are paying for? Most haircare products are over $10 now and that's not including shipping.

Thoughts?

 

[IDareT'sHair]

I think for the most part, if you have a complaint, most vendors will work with you to amicably resolve the issue. (Most).

This is where it comes to separating the Real Players from the Wannnabe's. The Real Players know what is at stake and will either refund your money, send you a replacement with no charge etc....

What I personally don't like is, if I have a complaint, you ask for pictures or you want me to send it back (at my own expense).

That I don't like and will more than likely file a PayPal Dispute. (Item Not As Described)

The shelf life, is worrisome, but I find if stored properly, you can get a few extra months/years out of a particular product.

However, a six (6) month Shelf life is unacceptable and the vendor needs to look at another preservative. I agree. The costs of Handmade/Naturals and Shipping is a bit much.

I cautiously approach 'new' vendors for these reasons.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

I also think your hair can become 'dependent' on these types of products and it's hard to go back to OTG or Commercial products.

What are your thoughts on that? @shawnyblazes

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

I just dont understand becoming dependent on anyone for my haircare needs. So many companies have come and gone. Yes, its a pain in the butt to find a new replacement but online shopping is going out for me.


I'm glad that many vendors are coming locally and just because I CAN take the product BACK to the store. Im paying $18 for a deep conditioner and then have to pay to send it back, wait for a replacement and then hope its fixed??

 

[IDareT'sHair]

I just dont understand becoming dependent on anyone for my haircare needs. So many companies have come and gone. Yes, its a pain in the butt to find a new replacement but online shopping is going out for me.
I'm glad that many vendors are coming locally and just because I CAN take the product BACK to the store. Im paying $18 for a deep conditioner and then have to pay to send it back, wait for a replacement and then hope its fixed??

@shawnyblazes
Yes, a lot of great lines have come & gone.

You are absolutely right. And it is good there are some of the Handmade/Naturals in stores now. That helps - a lot.

Re: When products are in the $18.00 - $20.00 range, stuff better be on point. I cannot see them asking you to send it back and then trying to "fix it" Not no $18.00 - $20.00 product.

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

I don't purchase/repurchase from vendors with bad customer service. I also don't purchase from vendors that I have to wait a month to receive my products. I also don't purchase from vendors with short shelf lives and inconsistent formulas. I don't have the patience for foolishness. It's 2016, this boutique product industry is old enough to have established vendors with great products and customer service. I refuse to give money to subpar business owners.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

@MilkChocolateOne
what's the rest????

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

@MilkChocolateOne
what's the rest????

I edited it.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

@shawnyblazes
I'm interested to hear with other Handmade/Natural Aficionado's have to say about this subject.

Good Thread.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

I don't purchase/repurchase from vendors with bad customer service. I also don't purchase from vendors that I have to wait a month to receive my products. I also don't purchase from vendors with short shelf lives and inconsistent formulas. I don't have the patience for foolishness. It's 2016, this boutique product industry is old enough to have established vendors with great products and customer service. I refuse to give money to subpar business owners.

@MilkChocolateOne
Agreed.

However, in my quest to find new & exciting things.....I run into the subpar crowd every now and again.

But I fully support that statement. I do not expect mediocracy from folks that are established.

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

I used to wait 7 - 10 days for my Qhemet products and I didn't mind because the owner was transparent. She was upfront about her shipping times, her products were always delivered before the deadline, her products were great quality and the formulas were consistent.

I stopped ordering from hairveda because I didn't appreciate receiving my products 4 - 6 weeks after placing an order.

I haven't ordered from soultanicals or hq because of the reviews about poor customer service and inconsistent product formulas.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

@MilkChocolateOne
Hairveda finally got their ship time worked out. ST'icals is still a mess both in wait time & consistency (IMO).

 

[Kurlee]

If you want natural products with good ingredients, 6 months is reasonable. Many store brands use much harsher chemicals and preservatives that allow them to keep much longer. The short expiry times should be understood.

In regards to the return policies, we must remember that these businesses are often Black owned and comprise of homemade stuff. Small business owners simply don't have the capital to be giving refunds to everyone that doesn't "like" a product. Even in bricks and mortar stores, aside from huge $$$ stores, you usually can't bring back cosmetic products due to the nature of the product (not resalable and bacteria/cross-contamination). These small business are also usually making stuff by hand, so you can't expect a factory-level product where it's the exact same every time. Shea butter, oils, essential oils vary in colour, smell and texture in each batch you buy if it's the good stuff (not refined and has all its nutrients in tact), so you have to expect slight colour, texture and smell changes with natural products. If you want the identical type product, then they would have to use artificial colors, fragrance and refined ingredients (nutrients and good stuff stripped out) and use a factory for production. I'm thinking of an ingredient right now that makes everything look and feel creamy and white, but is hella comedogenic. Many products have it in it, but it will break out your skin like a mug. Can you imagine how expensive the products would be if this home maker were to pay for factory production and then on top of it water down their products with more expensive, refined ingredients? Maybe the company hasn't grown to that level yet and maybe they don't want to create exactly what has been on the market all this time. Natural hair products are niche.

I think if we want alternatives to mass production to flourish, our expectations need to adjust. We've been spoiled. You wouldn't expect all the perks (and risks) of a grocery store at a local farmer would you?

 

[IDareT'sHair]

I also think companies like (in no particular order):
Hattache
Pampered & Twisted
Curlmart
AveYou
Monique's Natural Hair Boutique

Have aided in alleviating long(er) wait times.

 

[Anaisin]

6 months? Lmao mess. My Curl Junkie products have lasted my entire hair journey which is 3 years now. When I go to reach for a product it shouldn't be spoiled or pulled out of a refrigerator in fear of it spoiling.

Blue Roze beauty products say 12 months but expired before the summer came and before I could even try half of them.


I can't be bothered. This is why my bf list has completely changed. Doing a Curl Junkie haul, repurchasing Oyin hair dew and CRN Ajani balm. Don't have time for other vendors. The only new to me company I'm willing to try is Qhemet. Camille Rose & Oyin are at Target & Mielle is at Sally's. I'm good, great actually, don't mind paying full price for great products I can get down the street. A sale used to get me quickly but now I don't care as much unless it's from my favorite brand. Randoms having good sales are no longer tempting

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

if you want natural products with good ingredients, 6 months is reasonable. Many store brands use much harsher chemicals and preservatives that allow them to keep much longer. The short expiry times should be understood.

In regards to the return policies, we must remember that these businesses are often Black owned and homemade stuff. Small business owners simply don't have the capital to be giving refunds to everyone that doesn't "like" a product. Even in bricks and mortar stores, aside from huge $$$ stores, you usually can't bring back cosmetic products due to the nature of the product (not resalable and bacteria/cross-contamination).

I think if we want alternatives to mass production to flourish, our expectations need to adjust. We've been spoiled. You wouldn't expect all the perks of a grocery store at a local farmer would you?

Why do you think 6 months is reasonable? The natural aspect of what youre getting?

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

@MilkChocolateOne
Agreed.

However, in my quest to find new & exciting things.....I run into the subpar crowd every now and again.

But I fully support that statement. I do not expect mediocracy from folks that are established.

upstarts should follow the examples of the companies that came before them. The successful brands like Qhemet would close for a period of time to process orders or to prepare for an upcoming sale. It's take a lot of nerve to remain open and continue to have numerous sales when all the orders from last month's sale haven't been processed and shipped out.

communication is another big issue. promptly answer emails in a professional manner. a customer should have to email you 3 -4 times in a single week before receiving and answer.

I know mistakes happen but missing labels, hair in products, shipping out spoiled items should never occur.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

@MilkChocolateOne

Yes, the Sale right after a Sale is another problem/mistake a lot of start ups seem to make. And out-pricing themselves.

Ain't nobody ever even heard of you and you asking $25.00 for a 4oz Jar of something with no proven track record or reviews.

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

Do you throw a product away if its spoiled, mixed incorrectly, or try and salvage it??

Do you express that problem with the product online or to the vendor?

 

[IDareT'sHair]

Yes, I will contact the vendor about inconsistencies (and other things). #noshame

I don't really have too much experienced with a spoiled or molded product, but I would definitely pitch it for health reasons.

IMO: Some badly formulated/inconsistent items cannot be salvaged.

 

[MilkChocolateOne]

If you want natural products with good ingredients, 6 months is reasonable. Many store brands use much harsher chemicals and preservatives that allow them to keep much longer. The short expiry times should be understood.

In regards to the return policies, we must remember that these businesses are often Black owned and comprise of homemade stuff. Small business owners simply don't have the capital to be giving refunds to everyone that doesn't "like" a product. Even in bricks and mortar stores, aside from huge $$$ stores, you usually can't bring back cosmetic products due to the nature of the product (not resalable and bacteria/cross-contamination). These small business are also usually making stuff by hand, so you can't expect a factory-level product where it's the exact same every time. Can you imagine how expensive the products would be if this home maker were to pay for factory production? Maybe the company hasn't grown to that level yet.

I think if we want alternatives to mass production to flourish, our expectations need to adjust. We've been spoiled. You wouldn't expect all the perks of a grocery store at a local farmer would you?

I understand reasonable variations in consistency. What I'm talking about is when a product changes drastically each time it's ordered. If I order a semi wet cream in May I don't want to receive a whipped butter consistency when I decide to reorder in August unless you notify me with a formulation change. If I ordered a product that had a light scent I don't expect the scent of the repurchased item to be strong. Quality control applies to handmade items too especially since some of the companies are working with bases.

 

[Kurlee]

Why do you think 6 months is reasonable? The natural aspect of what youre getting?

The preservatives that are used in natural products can't really hold up much longer than that and if vendors don't warn you and something happens (rash, illness, hair loss) they can get sued. The parabens and other very strong preservatives like it can last forever and a day, but many consumers don't want to use them because of their perceived relationship to formaldehyde and potential health risks. Many studies say they are safe in small doses, others link them to cancer and a host of physiological problems.

With our natural products there's also lots of aloe, marshmallow root, irish moss, etc. and those products will lower a products shelf-life drastically if they are genuinely in a product in natural form. I think because people don't understand the chemistry behind these things and how the industry works, they have unrealistic expectations. We've been trained to think the corporate model is the only way, but how often does the corporate model gives the things that people are complaining about here at the cost of our health through unsafe ingredients or not even disclosing the full ingredient list? They do it because they can afford to clean up the mess, if and when it happens.

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

The preservatives that are used in natural products can't really hold up much longer than that and if vendors don't warn you and something happens (rash, illness, hair loss) they can get sued. The parabens and other very strong preservatives like it can last forever and a day, but many consumers don't want to use them because of their perceived relationship to formaldehyde and potential health risks. Many studies say they are safe in small doses, others link them to cancer and a host of physiological problems.

With our natural products there's also lots of aloe, marshmallow root, irish moss, etc. and those products will lower a products shelf-life drastically if they are genuinely in a product in natural form. I think because people don't understand the chemistry behind these things and how the industry works, they have unrealistic expectations. We've been trained to think the corporate model is the only way, but how often does the corporate model gives the things that people are complaining about here at the cost of our health through unsafe ingredients or not even disclosing the full ingredient list?

How do you take in account for natural hair care lines that have their products preserved for years without parabens?


and please dont think Im coming for you. I'm getting a good dialogue here

 

[Anaisin]

@MilkChocolateOne

Yes, the Sale right after a Sale is another problem/mistake a lot of start ups seem to make. And out-pricing themselves.

Ain't nobody ever even heard of you and you asking $25.00 for a 4oz Jar of something with no proven track record or reviews.

Lmao

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

Do you throw a product away if its spoiled, mixed incorrectly, or try and salvage it??

Do you express that problem with the product online or to the vendor?

Also, please ladies, Answer these questions.

its not only about preserving. Its about improper mixing, products sweating... shoddy labels... thrown together packages FOR upscale prices.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

Currently, I have no problem purchasing from them and will continue to do so, as long as it's financially feasible for me to do so. I'll support our Sisters & Brothers.

I do realize there are some things I have to tolerate (USPS issues) and other factors when dealing with these folks and have the temperament for that.

I just had spillage from Piping Rock. So, stuff happens. Even Brick & Mortars have issues.

 

[Anaisin]

Do you throw a product away if its spoiled, mixed incorrectly, or try and salvage it??

Do you express that problem with the product online or to the vendor?

I throw it away. I contact them one time for any problem. If I have to keep contacting you with issues I'm no longer buying from that company

 

[Anaisin]

Also, please ladies, Answer these questions.

its not only about preserving. Its about improper mixing, products sweating... shoddy labels... thrown together packages FOR upscale prices.

Labels that melt off, wrong ingredients/different from online, wrong ounce, no directions etc. I can't deal

 

[IDareT'sHair]

I hate grittiness. Especially if it was smooth last time I bought it.

Shoddy labels that run. Poor/Cheap packaging are more than likely from start ups.

I don't like partial ingredient list either.

If you are just starting out, I guess I try to be some-what more tolerable.

But if you are still doing that 12 months later, there's a problem.

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

DO you go back to the vendor though OR do we post it here and hope said vendor is watching??

Do you google reviews before you buy?