Controversy surrounding Aubrey Organics?

[natieya]

Hello LHCF family...

I was doing a random search online about hair products I use and I found some info about a certain controversy about Aubrey Organics products.

This site [FONT=&quot]http://www.bubbleandbee.com/Organiclabelinglies.html basically says that even though they [/FONT][FONT=&quot] (AO) [/FONT][FONT=&quot]tout themselves as being all natural, their "coconut fatty acid base" isn't natural and neither are their preservatives. But, after doing a bit more research I found out there is a pretty big dissension among people about preservatives and how there aren't any such things as "natural preservatives". Ok, I think I'm making this too confusing. If you read the link I pasted above, it explains it better than I do.

FYI, this information has not made me want to stop using Aubrey Organics. Even though their products aren't all natural. My hair is thriving using the honeysuckle rose, white camellia, and Egyptian henna conditioners. I just wanted to be informed about what exactly gets put on my hair. I don't like it when companies get secretive with their ingredients (especially when they are claiming to be all natural).

I hope this information is useful to someone...
[/FONT]

 

[Crackers Phinn]

^bumping before it gets lost in the shuffle.

Good looking out.

 

[pinkchocolatedaisy]

I had read something about this in a book I have. I remember about how supposedly the creators/founders of AO weren't heeding to "FDA warnings" and that they weren't being completely honest about their ingredients. I have to find the book and the exact passage, but I remember reading something about that. But I still like their products too (or just one so far, GBP cond ). I think there is always going to be controversy about "organic" and "natural" products.

 

[eshille]

The controversy over Aubrey's products and ingredients is an old issue..one which has been attacked from all sides.

To lessen stress regarding what's in products I always check every ingredient listed against The Environmental Working Group's database...

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/index.php?nothanks=1

 

[natieya]

JCoily, thanks for bumping this.

Mshottienelsom, I look forward to you posting that info from that book. I'm glad you guys found this useful. I debated over whether I should bring this up or not. But, I figured, I'd rather inform you guys and let you all decide what you want to do with the info.


[/quote]

^bumping before it gets lost in the shuffle.

Good looking out.

I had read something about this in a book I have. I remember about how supposedly the creators/founders of AO weren't heeding to "FDA warnings" and that they weren't being completely honest about their ingredients. I have to find the book and the exact passage, but I remember reading something about that. But I still like their products too (or just one so far, GBP cond ). I think there is always going to be controversy about "organic" and "natural" products.

 

[natieya]

The controversy over Aubrey's products and ingredients is an old issue..one which has been attacked from all sides.

To lessen stress regarding what's in products I always check every ingredient listed against The Environmental Working Group's database...

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/index.php?nothanks=1

Ok, cool thanks for this. **Off to see what it says about the "coconut fatty acid base" that AO uses...**

 

[loulou82]

Not my HSR! It's my staple moisturizing conditioner. I'll have to dig into this issue.

 

[LovelyLionessa]

I remember this in Paula Begoun's book, Don't Go Shopping for Haircare Products without me. Maybe I can type out the exact passage when I get a chance. She maintained they weren't forth coming concerning their ingriedients and the fragrance was so strong in the products that she had serious doubts they were all natural.

 

[eshille]

Ok, cool thanks for this. **Off to see what it says about the "coconut fatty acid base" that AO uses...**

They list the "coconut fatty acid base" w/a rating of 0 and a 100% data base gap.

HSR gets an overall rating of 2 which is low hazard.

Everyone must remember that the FDA does not require manufacturers to test their own products for safety. We're on our own out here and research is imperative.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

They list the "coconut fatty acid base" w/a rating of 0 and a 100% data base gap.

HSR gets an overall rating of 2 which is low hazard.

Everyone must remember that the FDA does not require manufacturers to test their own products for safety. We're on our own out here and research is imperative.

Very Good point...... We just have to be as wise and shrewd as possible.

I will look in to this as well......

Thank you for the posting!

 

[natieya]

So that 100% data base gap means we don't know anything?

They list the "coconut fatty acid base" w/a rating of 0 and a 100% data base gap.

HSR gets an overall rating of 2 which is low hazard.

Everyone must remember that the FDA does not require manufacturers to test their own products for safety. We're on our own out here and research is imperative.

 

[eshille]

So that 100% data base gap means we don't know anything?

natieya...this is their explanation about data base gaps:


You'll see a new dual rating system that includes both a hazard rating and a data gap rating.


>The hazard score represents a synthesis of known and suspected hazards from more than 50 definitive databases. The hazard rating of a product can be higher than for its individual ingredients — it adds up the hazards of all ingredients, and is scaled higher if the product has penetration enhancers or other ingredients that increase skin absorption. This score is similar to the rating previously shown in Skin Deep, but now accounts for more safety references and we show it on a 0-10 scale (with no decimals, 10 corresponding to highest concern).

• The "data gap" rating is a measure of how much is unknown about an ingredient. Not all ingredients have the same amount of safety data. For example, some ingredients may appear to have low hazards, but this may be due to the fact that they have not have been studied or assessed completely. Other ingredients may appear to have low hazards and have been thoroughly studied or assessed. This score helps differentiate between ingredients and products that have been studied to different degrees.

The hazard score calculation does not account for data gaps. The two scores are separately calculated. So now you can see both what is known about the safety of an ingredient, and how complete the available science is behind that safety score.

Product rankings may have shifted with these updates. As always, scores are subject to change pending new science that we are able to integrate into Skin Deep.

For more details on the scoring and construction of Skin Deep, please see the Methodology section.

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/faq.php#1

 

[Lucky's Mom]

natieya...this is their explanation about data base gaps:


You'll see a new dual rating system that includes both a hazard rating and a data gap rating.


>The hazard score represents a synthesis of known and suspected hazards from more than 50 definitive databases. The hazard rating of a product can be higher than for its individual ingredients — it adds up the hazards of all ingredients, and is scaled higher if the product has penetration enhancers or other ingredients that increase skin absorption. This score is similar to the rating previously shown in Skin Deep, but now accounts for more safety references and we show it on a 0-10 scale (with no decimals, 10 corresponding to highest concern).

• The "data gap" rating is a measure of how much is unknown about an ingredient. Not all ingredients have the same amount of safety data. For example, some ingredients may appear to have low hazards, but this may be due to the fact that they have not have been studied or assessed completely. Other ingredients may appear to have low hazards and have been thoroughly studied or assessed. This score helps differentiate between ingredients and products that have been studied to different degrees.

The hazard score calculation does not account for data gaps. The two scores are separately calculated. So now you can see both what is known about the safety of an ingredient, and how complete the available science is behind that safety score.

Product rankings may have shifted with these updates. As always, scores are subject to change pending new science that we are able to integrate into Skin Deep.

For more details on the scoring and construction of Skin Deep, please see the Methodology section.

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/faq.php#1

Eshille, you are Awesome.
thanks!!!

 

[msa]

Thanks for all the info everyone...off to do some research.

 

[Enchantmt]

I remember an issue regarding the grapefruit seed extract used as a preservative. If I recall correctly, the companies that make it mix it with parabens, so it was said though they didnt add in parabens,the extract used already contained them. I could be wrong though, its been years.

 

[eshille]

I remember an issue regarding the grapefruit seed extract used as a preservative. If I recall correctly, the companies that make it mix it with parabens, so it was said though they didnt add in parabens,the extract used already contained them. I could be wrong though, its been years.

That's the difficulty we face...the extraction process. I've read some suppliers use solvents and other chems in this process whereas others
may use a water extraction or alcohol method. This is not only true for grapefruit seed extract but also for any of these ingredients used in consumer care products...hydrolyzed wheat, silk amino acids...soy protein...etc. you get the pic.

From my window it's simply a matter of being informed and being able to make a decision relative to what one desires to incorporate into their lifestyle. I will admit that our range of information is deliberately limited by these manufacturers but working with the information we have available gives us the power needed to direct our lives.

By the way, I bless all my products and infuse them w/The Light simply by using my intent to do so. That's the last control I have available before using anything.

 

[eshille]

samanthajones...you're welcome. I attribute my efforts to the ladies of lhcf who have rung the bell about the parabens, tetrasodium edta, diazolidinyl urea, propelyne glycol and other ingredients...none of which I even thought about before lurking on this board.

Their message prompted me to look much deeper into all products and has helped me tremendously...So ladies....THANK YOU...

 

[BKVincy]

I dont think any product that is sold is completely 100% grade A natural. Its impossible to do IMO. There is always something to it.

 

[gymfreak336]

I dont think any product that is sold is completely 100% grade A natural. Its impossible to do IMO. There is always something to it.

I agree with you. Especially for mass manufactured products.

I love aubrey organics and I will still continue to use them.

 

[gymfreak336]

That's the difficulty we face...the extraction process. I've read some suppliers use solvents and other chems in this process whereas others
may use a water extraction or alcohol method. This is not only true for grapefruit seed extract but also for any of these ingredients used in consumer care products...hydrolyzed wheat, silk amino acids...soy protein...etc. you get the pic.

From my window it's simply a matter of being informed and being able to make a decision relative to what one desires to incorporate into their lifestyle. I will admit that our range of information is deliberately limited by these manufacturers but working with the information we have available gives us the power needed to direct our lives.

By the way, I bless all my products and infuse them w/The Light simply by using my intent to do so. That's the last control I have available before using anything.

We talk about that all of the time in my Mass Manufacturing chem class. What they also don't tell you is how certain ingredients like soy protein retain all of the chemicals that are use to process them. They use hexane with soy, even the kind you eat, and the final result, the hydrolyzed soy protein, holds on to most of the hexane used.

 

[lollyoo]

yes, they are not completely honest, but majority of there ingredients is still natural or naturally derived. The Aubrey organics sold within EU have longer ingredients than that sold in U.S. This is because under EU law you have to include every single ingredients in your products, you cant use something like organic base as an ingredient list.
Below is the exact ingredients on honeysuckle rose conditioner-

UK/EU - aqua, butyrospernum parkii, cetyl alcohol, aloe barbadensis, glyceryl linoleate, glyceryl linolenate, glycerin, triticum vulgare oil, hamamelis virginiana, simmondsia chinesis*, rosa moschata oil*, foeniculum vulgare, humulus lupulus extract, melissa officinalis extract, viscum album extract, anthemis nobilis extract, achillea millefollium extract, chrysanthenium extract, forsythia suspensa fruit extract, magnolia biondii extract, lonicera japonica oil, tocopherol acetate, retinyl palmitate, daucus carota oil, citrus grandis, retinyl acetate, ascorbic acid.

*- organically grown and processed in accordance with US National Organic Programme administered by US Dept of Agriculture.

US- coconut fatty acid base cream, organic aloe vera, organic shea butter, wheat germ oil, organic jojoba oil, organic rosa mosqueta rose hip seed oil, extracts of fennel, hops, balm mint, mistletoe, camomile, yarrow, chrysanthenum,angelica,forysythia and magnolia, honeysuckle oil, carrot oil, aubrey's preservative (citrus extract, vitamin A,C and E).

My main issue is why hide some of the ingredients particularly the ones that are not 100% natural (i.e plant derived like cety alcohol etc). Also it seems that they have more organic ingredient labels on the US than UK, so my believe is that some of the ingredients written as organic on US labels are not certified organic but may be wildharvested (i.e not grown with preservative etc).

I make cosmetic products and issue with natural preservative is that, it is widely accepted that there is no such thing as natural preservative. Most "natural preservative" such as GSE, CSE contain contanminants during the manufacturing process these contaminats in some cases parabens actually offers preservative properties. I know under EU laws, this product are not regarded as preservatives, although you are allowed to include in your product, since all cosmetics sold within the the EU will be tested for safety and shelf life anyway.

 

[gymfreak336]

yes, they are not completely honest, but majority of there ingredients is still natural or naturally derived. The Aubrey organics sold within EU have longer ingredients than that sold in U.S. This is because under EU law you have to include every single ingredients in your products, you cant use something like organic base as an ingredient list.
Below is the exact ingredients on honeysuckle rose conditioner-

UK/EU - aqua, butyrospernum parkii, cetyl alcohol, aloe barbadensis, glyceryl linoleate, glyceryl linolenate, glycerin, triticum vulgare oil, hamamelis virginiana, simmondsia chinesis*, rosa moschata oil*, foeniculum vulgare, humulus lupulus extract, melissa officinalis extract, viscum album extract, anthemis nobilis extract, achillea millefollium extract, chrysanthenium extract, forsythia suspensa fruit extract, magnolia biondii extract, lonicera japonica oil, tocopherol acetate, retinyl palmitate, daucus carota oil, citrus grandis, retinyl acetate, ascorbic acid.

*- organically grown and processed in accordance with US National Organic Programme administered by US Dept of Agriculture.

US- coconut fatty acid base cream, organic aloe vera, organic shea butter, wheat germ oil, organic jojoba oil, organic rosa mosqueta rose hip seed oil, extracts of fennel, hops, balm mint, mistletoe, camomile, yarrow, chrysanthenum,angelica,forysythia and magnolia, honeysuckle oil, carrot oil, aubrey's preservative (citrus extract, vitamin A,C and E).

My main issue is why hide some of the ingredients particularly the ones that are not 100% natural (i.e plant derived like cety alcohol etc). Also it seems that they have more organic ingredient labels on the US than UK, so my believe is that some of the ingredients written as organic on US labels are not certified organic but may be wildharvested (i.e not grown with preservative etc).

I make cosmetic products and issue with natural preservative is that, it is widely accepted that there is no such thing as natural preservative. Most "natural preservative" such as GSE, CSE contain contanminants during the manufacturing process these contaminats in some cases parabens actually offers preservative properties. I know under EU laws, this product are not regarded as preservatives, although you are allowed to include in your product, since all cosmetics sold within the the EU will be tested for safety and shelf life anyway.

Thanks for providing that ingredient list. When I see coconut fatty acids, I always think fatty alcohols which is exactly what is really is. Thanks again.

 

[LovelyLionessa]

An excerpt from Paula Begoun's Don't Go Shopping For Haircare Products Without Me regarding the the founder Aubrey Hampton's Aubrey Organics line:

"The ingriedient lists and the company's nocompliance with regulations regarding claims made for over-the-counter products (including those for haircare) have led the FDA to issue warnings to Aubrey Hamilton. Clearly, Hampton did little to heed the warnings, particularly in regard to full disclosure of product ingriedients. For example, his Jojoba & Aloe Hair Rejeuvonator & Conditioner lists its ingriedients as organic jojoba oil, organic aloe vera, and " a natural coconut fatty acid base." Not only is the last part of the ingriedient statement non compliant with the FDA and Cosmetics, Toiletries & Fragrance Association labeling regualtions, but this product also has a potent floral musky fragrance that does not match how any of these ingriedients should smell. In other words, something's missing here, and for all Hampton's "natural=safe" for consumers posturing, this is an inexcusable omission that keeps consumers in the dark about what is really in these products. The icing on the dishonest cake is reading on Hampton's Web site that the company prides itself (and has for years) on "Full Label Disclosure."

ETA: Please excuse typos, I typed this out.

 

[gymfreak336]

An excerpt from Paula Begoun's Don't Go Shopping For Haircare Products Without Me regarding the the founder Aubrey Hampton's Aubrey Organics line:

"The ingriedient lists and the company's nocompliance with regulations regarding claims made for over-the-counter products (including those for haircare) have led the FDA to issue warnings to Aubrey Hamilton. Clearly, Hampton did little to heed the warnings, particularly in regard to full disclosure of product ingriedients. For example, his Jojoba & Aloe Hair Rejeuvonator & Conditioner lists its ingriedients as organic jojoba oil, organic aloe vera, and " a natural coconut fatty acid base." Not only is the last part of the ingriedient statement non compliant with the FDA and Cosmetics, Toiletries & Fragrance Association labeling regualtions, but this product also has a potent floral musky fragrance that does not match how any of these ingriedients should smell. In other words, something's missing here, and for all Hampton's "natural=safe" for consumers posturing, this is an inexcusable omission that keeps consumers in the dark about what is really in these products. The icing on the dishonest cake is reading on Hampton's Web site that the company prides itself (and has for years) on "Full Label Disclosure."

ETA: Please excuse typos, I typed this out.

@ the red...You know what, I love aubrey organics products it their policy in labeling bothers me. It doesn't sit right with me.

 

[anon123]

I remember an issue regarding the grapefruit seed extract used as a preservative. If I recall correctly, the companies that make it mix it with parabens, so it was said though they didnt add in parabens,the extract used already contained them. I could be wrong though, its been years.

That's the difficulty we face...the extraction process. . . .

From my window it's simply a matter of being informed and being able to make a decision relative to what one desires to incorporate into their lifestyle.

Thanks for posting. I know someone who avoids another conditioner she likes and which is much cheaper precisely because it's listed as containing parabens while AOHSR is not. I should at least clue her in on this so she can do some research. it's like the only way to know for sure is to go the NaturalGirl route.

 

[natieya]

Lollyoo,

Thank you so much for listing this!

yes, they are not completely honest, but majority of there ingredients is still natural or naturally derived. The Aubrey organics sold within EU have longer ingredients than that sold in U.S. This is because under EU law you have to include every single ingredients in your products, you cant use something like organic base as an ingredient list.
Below is the exact ingredients on honeysuckle rose conditioner-

UK/EU - aqua, butyrospernum parkii, cetyl alcohol, aloe barbadensis, glyceryl linoleate, glyceryl linolenate, glycerin, triticum vulgare oil, hamamelis virginiana, simmondsia chinesis*, rosa moschata oil*, foeniculum vulgare, humulus lupulus extract, melissa officinalis extract, viscum album extract, anthemis nobilis extract, achillea millefollium extract, chrysanthenium extract, forsythia suspensa fruit extract, magnolia biondii extract, lonicera japonica oil, tocopherol acetate, retinyl palmitate, daucus carota oil, citrus grandis, retinyl acetate, ascorbic acid.

*- organically grown and processed in accordance with US National Organic Programme administered by US Dept of Agriculture.

US- coconut fatty acid base cream, organic aloe vera, organic shea butter, wheat germ oil, organic jojoba oil, organic rosa mosqueta rose hip seed oil, extracts of fennel, hops, balm mint, mistletoe, camomile, yarrow, chrysanthenum,angelica,forysythia and magnolia, honeysuckle oil, carrot oil, aubrey's preservative (citrus extract, vitamin A,C and E).

My main issue is why hide some of the ingredients particularly the ones that are not 100% natural (i.e plant derived like cety alcohol etc). Also it seems that they have more organic ingredient labels on the US than UK, so my believe is that some of the ingredients written as organic on US labels are not certified organic but may be wildharvested (i.e not grown with preservative etc).

I make cosmetic products and issue with natural preservative is that, it is widely accepted that there is no such thing as natural preservative. Most "natural preservative" such as GSE, CSE contain contanminants during the manufacturing process these contaminats in some cases parabens actually offers preservative properties. I know under EU laws, this product are not regarded as preservatives, although you are allowed to include in your product, since all cosmetics sold within the the EU will be tested for safety and shelf life anyway.

 

[SUZIEq]

I've heard a long time ago that the company was misrepresenting their products as being 100% natural. I heard that when old man Aubrey was alive the products were relatively natural and up to compliance. But after he died and his kids took the business over that's when things became not so kosher.

I don't really use the Aubrey line any whole way...and deceiving consumers is not nice. As other posters stated we just have to be informed consumers.

An excerpt from Paula Begoun's Don't Go Shopping For Haircare Products Without Me regarding the the founder Aubrey Hampton's Aubrey Organics line:

"The ingriedient lists and the company's nocompliance with regulations regarding claims made for over-the-counter products (including those for haircare) have led the FDA to issue warnings to Aubrey Hamilton. Clearly, Hampton did little to heed the warnings, particularly in regard to full disclosure of product ingriedients. For example, his Jojoba & Aloe Hair Rejeuvonator & Conditioner lists its ingriedients as organic jojoba oil, organic aloe vera, and " a natural coconut fatty acid base." Not only is the last part of the ingriedient statement non compliant with the FDA and Cosmetics, Toiletries & Fragrance Association labeling regualtions, but this product also has a potent floral musky fragrance that does not match how any of these ingriedients should smell. In other words, something's missing here, and for all Hampton's "natural=safe" for consumers posturing, this is an inexcusable omission that keeps consumers in the dark about what is really in these products. The icing on the dishonest cake is reading on Hampton's Web site that the company prides itself (and has for years) on "Full Label Disclosure."

ETA: Please excuse typos, I typed this out.

 

[eshille]

I've heard a long time ago that the company was misrepresenting their products as being 100% natural. I heard that when old man Aubrey was alive the products were relatively natural and up to compliance. But after he died and his kids took the business over that's when things became not so kosher.

I don't really use the Aubrey line any whole way...and deceiving consumers is not nice. As other posters stated we just have to be informed consumers.

I could not find any information regarding Aubrey Hampton's death on the internet nor on the web site. It appears he is very much alive...however, Dr. Bonner has transitioned from this reality and his kids are now running the business.

 

[eshille]

Natural Consumer Products Found Contaminated with Cancer-Causing 1,4-Dioxane in Groundbreaking Analysis Released by OCA

• By Mike Adams
  NaturalNews.com, March 15, 2008
  Straight to the Source
  
  

A cancer-causing compound called 1,4-dioxane has been found in some of the most commonly used petroleum-based cosmetics by a study commissioned by the Organic Consumers Association, including products from Kiss My Face, Nutribiotic, Jason, Ecover, Citrus Magic, 365, Alba, Lifetree, Giovanni, Seventh Generation, Method, Earth Friendly Products, Sea-Chi Organics and many other brands . 1,4-dioxane (often just called dioxane) is a clear, colorless, organic compound that's a liquid at room temperature and is a known human carcinogen.

The study was conducted by the Organic Consumers Association (www.OrganicConsumers.org) in conjunction with Dr. Bronner's (www.DrBronner.com) and David Steinman, author of The Safe Shopper's Bible. It sought to determine the levels of 1,4-Dioxane in one hundred different consumer products, ranging from dish soaps to shower gels. Around fifty of the products tested were found to be contaminated with 1,4-Dioxane, while another fifty (or so) were found to be free of the cancer-causing chemical.

Companies whose products were found to be free of 1,4-Dioxane include Dr. Bronner's, Aubrey Organics, Burt's Bees, Desert Essence, Dr. Hauschka, EO, TerrEssential, Zia Fresh, Avalon Organics and other companies.

Some companies had products in both categories, meaning some of their products were found to be contaminated with 1,4-Dioxane while other products from the same company were found to be free of 1,4-Dioxane. These companies included Alba, Jason, Kiss my Face, Method, Nature's Gate, Origins, Shikai and others.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_10918.cfm

 

[eshille]

We talk about that all of the time in my Mass Manufacturing chem class. What they also don't tell you is how certain ingredients like soy protein retain all of the chemicals that are use to process them. They use hexane with soy, even the kind you eat, and the final result, the hydrolyzed soy protein, holds on to most of the hexane used.

gymfreak..thx...couldn't think of that chem...hexane...I've seen it pop up a lot in my readings.