"Cursed be Caanan" -- The Castration of Noah

[Shimmie]

My daughter shared this article with me tonight... "Interesting"

By Rabbi Daniel Lapin

July 13, 2011
NewsWithViews.com

Ham - I - Am

Here are two rules of reality that are helpful to know.

1) Regardless of how much we possess, we are created with a drive to want even more.
2) Our actions can unintentionally harm our children’s lives.

We learn these two timeless truths by solving a pair of perplexing puzzles in the Biblical account of Noah.

First:

The sons of Noah who emerged from the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japhet, and Ham was the father of Canaan.
(Genesis 9:18)

Four verses later-

Ham, the father of Canaan saw his father’s nakedness…
(Genesis 9:22)

Who cares that Ham was the father of Canaan? Why not also tell me who Shem and Japhet’s sons were? Furthermore, did we need a reminder of the relationship after only four verses?

Second:

Ham did something that the text (Genesis 9:22) refers to as “seeing his father’s nakedness.” Then, Noah awakens and utters a dreadful curse against Canaan.

And he said, “Cursed is Canaan...”
(Genesis 9:25)

Why would Noah punish Ham’s fourth son rather than the miscreant himself? How did a sleeping Noah even know what Ham did?

Ancient Jewish wisdom teaches that the Torah uses euphemistic language.

Ham’s terrible crime was castrating his father.[/B
]
Why?

After the Flood, God instructed Noah to be fruitful and multiply. (Genesis 9:1)

By making sure there would be no more sons, Ham wanted to guarantee that he would inherit 1/3 of the world rather than only 1/4.

So, Ham prevented the birth of Noah’s fourth son and Noah harmed Ham’s fourth son.

But that’s not fair!

The Torah is teaching us two lessons we need to know.

1) Even someone who owns as much as 1/4 of the entire world desires more.
2) Everything we do either helps or harms our children.

Scripture is far more than a history book; it is a guidebook to the world. It may not seem fair that parents’ misdeeds damage their children. But it is how the world works.

As the Ten Commandments state, when we do something really bad , it impacts our children, our grandchildren and perhaps even our great-grandchildren. (Exodus 20:5 and Deuteronomy 5:9) Bernie Madoff’s children and grandchildren had their lives forever changed by the actions of the notorious swindler.

Knowing these rules truly benefits us. We can channel our own drive for desiring more into positive enterprise, thus using it constructively. We can also understand human nature better, thereby interacting more effectively with others.

We can behave in ways that give our children advantages rather than disadvantages. We can also structure our society more wisely. Instead of recognizing that children thrive in stable, two parent families, we normalize alternative arrangements. Instead of helping individual children overcome tough challenges we pretend that all situations are equivalent. In doing so, we encourage damaging conduct.

People can and do often overcome the effects of their parents’ mistakes, but one of the strongest human impulses is to protect our children. God created the world with this parent/child connection to encourage us to behave properly, ever aware of our present and potential children.

As much as we like to believe that our actions are our own business, this simply isn’t true. Our behavior yesterday will even impact the lives of children we may bring into the world tomorrow.

Teaching reality as it is, rather than as how we would like it to be, is one major gift the Bible offers. There are many more reality lessons from Noah which I present in my 2 audio CD set, The Gathering Storm.

It is this week’s highlighted (and discounted, online only) teaching. I’d like you to have it.

© 2011 Rabbi Daniel Lapin - All Rights Reserved

http://newswithviews.com/Lapin/daniel128.htm

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Rabbi Daniel Lapin, known world-wide as America's Rabbi, is a noted rabbinic scholar, best-selling author and host of the Rabbi Daniel Lapin Show on San Francisco’s KSFO.

He is one of America’s most eloquent speakers and his ability to extract life principles from the Bible and transmit them in an entertaining manner has brought countless numbers of Jews and Christians closer to their respective faiths.

In 2007 Newsweek magazine included him in its list of America’s fifty most influential rabbis.

You can contact Rabbi Daniel Lapin through his website.

Web Site: www.rabbidaniellapin.com

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Praise God Precious Ones... I 'had' to share this.

@ the bolded and in red text...this man is making too much sense....

Ladies... how can 'you' apply this 'castration' to today's current events?

I'm gonna let you get it started... cause you 'all' know how I do ...

Share your views ...

 

[Almaz]

Great post

 

[PinkPebbles]

I enjoyed reading the article!

I believe that children pick up habits from their parents (good and bad); therefore, the parents actions and behavior are extremely important because it can have an effect on their child's mental and social being.

On the other hand, there is a scripture in the bible that says a person is not punished (cursed) for their parents' sins, they are punished (curse) if they continue to walk in the ways of their sinful parents.

I cannot find that particular scripture but I've found other scriptures that are similar in text.

Furthermore, I'm glad that God did not curse me for the sins of my forefathers because I would not be in this Christian forum!

Deut 24:16
16 “Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin.



Ezekiel 18:18-21
18 “ As for his father,
Because he cruelly oppressed,
Robbed his brother by violence,
And did what is not good among his people,
Behold, he shall die for his iniquity.

19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.

20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

21 “But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

 

[Laela]

^^ The book of Kings provides good examples of the same sins passing on from generation to generation.

When Amaziah became king of Judah, he'd spared the sons of those who killed his father:

2 Kings 14;6But he didn't execute their children. He obeyed the LORD's command written in the Book of Moses' Teachings: "Parents must never be put to death for the crimes of their children, and children must never be put to death for the crimes of their parents. Each person must be put to death for his own crime."

ITA Pebbles, thank God for his Mercy and Grace. Those days weren't no joke, when at times everyone was killed and died for the sins of one. Jesus fulfilled this, so that He alone suffered and died, for the sins of everyone.

 

[Shimmie]

Almaz , PinkPebbles, Laela

Thank you -- each of you -- so much for reading this article. I'll be sharing more as lately I have become the 'student' of my daughter.

Her Bible studies are very intense and part of the reason falls in line with the message from this article. She's doing what she grew up seeing me do. Thank God she picked up on the 'right' things and not my errors which were and are plenty.

Thank God for His grace and mercies upon me and my babies. Thank God, for I would not be here either.

I thank God for each of you...

 

[Transformer]

So this is really..."sins of the father." I found this very interesting.

 

[Shimmie]

So this is really..."sins of the father." I found this very interesting.

Very interesting

Thanks Transformer for stopping in and posting.

Each day is a new experience in God's love for us.

 

[Elnahna]

The article was really interesting. I have read that passage before but not with that understanding. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Shimmie]

The article was really interesting. I have read that passage before but not with that understanding. Thank you for sharing.

Thank you for reading this message and commenting. I find it VERRRRY interesting.

 

[Almaz]

Wow they must be intense is she studying biblical Hebrew, Gematria Man that takes me back to my days in Yeshiva. And I am a FLUENT Hebrew speaker and it was intense also

 

[Shimmie]

Wow they must be intense is she studying biblical Hebrew, Gematria Man that takes me back to my days in Yeshiva. And I am a FLUENT Hebrew speaker and it was intense also

Almaz ...

She doesn't 'see' it as intense She's always had an interest in Biblical Hebrew (history); she has a list of books that I can't seem to keep up with. She almost 'lives' in the library reading books I've never heard of.

Studying the 'numbers' (Genatria) is not intriguing for her; she feels that too many people add to it, rather than keep it in the right perspective. She doesn't want to waste time filtering the truth from someone's number fantasies. (hope this makes sense).

She'd love 'listening' to you with your vast knowledge of Herbrew history, etc. I can't get her on this forum, though. She thinks it too much drama....

I wonder why....

Almaz, thanks for asking about my baby girl. :Rose:

 

[Nice & Wavy]

What a powerful and on time word. This is a great study....

Tell your daughter, THANK YOU for sharing with us such a great word!

 

[Shimmie]

What a powerful and on time word. This is a great study....

Tell your daughter, THANK YOU for sharing with us such a great word!

Nice & Wavy ...

Hi Sis Thanks so much for the kind mention of my daughter. She's loves the Lord with all of her heart. Now, she's 'older' than me. Her growth in the Lord is amaziing. She's up early each morning dedicated to her praise and worship and her Bible studies.

After the family is settled, she calls me to share the Word she receives each day. She'll always be 'Mommie's' babygirl.

There's more to this 'study' about Noah. The Rabbi takes it to the 'curse' upon Caanan and how it connects to African Americans being separated from their 'Fathers'. It's something, else.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

@Nice & Wavy ...

Hi Sis Thanks so much for the kind mention of my daughter. She's loves the Lord with all of her heart. Now, she's 'older' than me. Her growth in the Lord is amaziing. She's up early each morning dedicated to her praise and worship and her Bible studies.

After the family is settled, she calls me to share the Word she receives each day. She'll always be 'Mommie's' babygirl.

There's more to this 'study' about Noah. The Rabbi takes it to the 'curse' upon Caanan and how it connects to African Americans being separated from their 'Fathers'. It's something, else.

At the bolded....this has my wheels spinning..........

Your daughter sounds like a gem among women! You are truly blessed and I'm sure she gets so much from her momma

 

[Shimmie]

At the bolded....this has my wheels spinning..........

Your daughter sounds like a gem among women! You are truly blessed and I'm sure she gets so much from her momma

Nice & Wavy

From the Rabbi's message via CD... (I'm looking for the 'written' text -- so far it's only on CD from his website).

Check this out:

Ishmael was separated from his father (Abraham), never to be in his presence again. They never had a true relationship as father and son, as he was 'sent away', and not known as the "Promised One" Isaac.

In the message he spoke of Keturah, Abraham's second wife (after Sarah's death). Keturah is a decendant of Sheba and she is/was a Nigerian (Black).

Watch this...

Abraham did the same with his sons by Keturah that he did with Ishmael; he gave them 'gifts' yet he sent them away .... from the presence/inheritance of his son Isaac; never to see these sons again nor to have a father/son relationship with them.

Here:

A wife of Abraham and the mother of six of his sons, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah, ancestors of various N Arabian peoples dwelling to the S and E of Palestine.—Ge 25:1-4.

Keturah is specifically referred to as “Abraham’s concubine” at 1 Chronicles 1:32, and quite apparently she and Hagar are meant at Genesis 25:6, where reference is made to the sons of Abraham’s “concubines.”

Keturah was therefore a secondary wife who never attained the same position as Sarah the mother of Isaac, through whom the promised Seed came. (Ge 17:19-21; 21:2, 3, 12; Heb 11:17, 18)

While “Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac,” the patriarch gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and then “sent them away from Isaac his son, while he was still alive, eastward, to the land of the East.”—Ge 25:5, 6.

Note: I found this link with 'written' information about Keturah )

http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2008/06/keturah-wife-or-concubine.html


Here's the theory...

The Rabbi connects this as what has 'followed' throughout the Black generations....'Black males separated from their fathers, not having a strong bond and relationship -- abandoned and estranged from one another.'

Now when you really look at this and think about it, it cannot be denied. Look at our Black community, it's all there with the numerous Baby Daddy and Baby Mama syndrome which has followed throughout the generations.

Precious Wavy, it's the sins of the 'father' (Abraham's sin) which has followed throughout the generations of the children he had by a Black Nigerian Woman, named Keturah.

According to the Rabbi, 'we' need to pray for Keturah's sons to return 'home', return to their families and allow God's healing to take place and restore them.

Isn't it something how things can 'trickle' down through the generations? The sins of the 'fathers'....

However, we have Jesus who has redeemed us from the curse of the law.

And Precious Wavy.... God reminded me of Galatians 3:29

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God did not leave 'us' out of the Promise. God knew that Abraham did some messin' up and yet God redeemed 'us' all through the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Whuuuuu ! It's a lot more to this 'study'. But it's an 'eye opener' -- the connection is from Noah and Ham and then to Abraham sending his Black sons away. And now God has given us the way back home to Him and to receive the Promise which belongs no longer to Isaac... alone. But to us 'all'.

 

[PinkPebbles]

@Nice & Wavy

From the Rabbi's message via CD... (I'm looking for the 'written' text -- so far it's only on CD from his website).

Check this out:

Ishmael was separated from his father (Abraham), never to be in his presence again. They never had a true relationship as father and son, as he was 'sent away', and not known as the "Promised One" Isaac.

In the message he spoke of Keturah, Abraham's second wife (after Sarah's death). Keturah is a decendant of Sheba and she is/was a Nigerian (Black).

Watch this...

Abraham did the same with his sons by Keturah that he did with Ishmael; he gave them 'gifts' yet he sent them away .... from the presence/inheritance of his son Isaac; never to see these sons again nor to have a father/son relationship with them.

Here:

A wife of Abraham and the mother of six of his sons, Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah, ancestors of various N Arabian peoples dwelling to the S and E of Palestine.—Ge 25:1-4.

Keturah is specifically referred to as “Abraham’s concubine” at 1 Chronicles 1:32, and quite apparently she and Hagar are meant at Genesis 25:6, where reference is made to the sons of Abraham’s “concubines.”

Keturah was therefore a secondary wife who never attained the same position as Sarah the mother of Isaac, through whom the promised Seed came. (Ge 17:19-21; 21:2, 3, 12; Heb 11:17, 18)

While “Abraham gave everything he had to Isaac,” the patriarch gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and then “sent them away from Isaac his son, while he was still alive, eastward, to the land of the East.”—Ge 25:5, 6.

Note: I found this link with 'written' information about Keturah )

http://jandyongenesis.blogspot.com/2008/06/keturah-wife-or-concubine.html


Here's the theory...

The Rabbi connects this as what has 'followed' throughout the Black generations....'Black males separated from their fathers, not having a strong bond and relationship -- abandoned and estranged from one another.'

Now when you really look at this and think about it, it cannot be denied. Look at our Black community, it's all there with the numerous Baby Daddy and Baby Mama syndrome which has followed throughout the generations.

Precious Wavy, it's the sins of the 'father' (Abraham's sin) which has followed throughout the generations of the children he had by a Black Nigerian Woman, named Keturah.

According to the Rabbi, 'we' need to pray for Keturah's sons to return 'home', return to their families and allow God's healing to take place and restore them.

Isn't it something how things can 'trickle' down through the generations? The sins of the 'fathers'....

However, we have Jesus who has redeemed us from the curse of the law.

And Precious Wavy.... God reminded me of Galatians 3:29

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God did not leave 'us' out of the Promise. God knew that Abraham did some messin' up and yet God redeemed 'us' all through the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Whuuuuu ! It's a lot more to this 'study'. But it's an 'eye opener' -- the connection is from Noah and Ham and then to Abraham sending his Black sons away. And now God has given us the way back home to Him and to receive the Promise which belongs no longer to Isaac... alone. But to us 'all'.

Hi Shimmie -

I'm not familiar with the Arabic culture but do you know if Ishmael's blood line has the same issues as the African American culture?

According to the above theory, they should since Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away. Ishmael was rejected and abandoned just like Keturah's sons.

In my humble opinion, there are a lot of loopholes on this theory. In one breathe the message says 'we' need to pray for Keturah's sons to return 'home', return to their families and allow God's healing to take place and restore them. And next it says we have Jesus who has redeemed us from the curse of the law.

This message is very confusing because how can you be cursed if you belong to Christ, who has redeemed us from the curse of the law?

 

[Shimmie]

Hi Shimmie -

I'm not familiar with the Arabic culture but do you know if Ishmael's blood line has the same issues as the African American culture?

According to the above theory, they should since Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away. Ishmael was rejected and abandoned just like Keturah's sons.

In my humble opinion, there are a lot of loopholes on this theory. In one breathe the message says 'we' need to pray for Keturah's sons to return 'home', return to their families and allow God's healing to take place and restore them. And next it says we have Jesus who has redeemed us from the curse of the law.
This message is very confusing because how can you be cursed if you belong to Christ, who has redeemed us from the curse of the law?

Hi PinkPebbles.... I am so sorry for the 'confusion'.

The Comment regarding praying for Keturah's sons was from the Rabbi's message.

The comments regarding Jesus are mine. I began by saying this...

Isn't it something how things can 'trickle' down through the generations? The sins of the 'fathers'....

However, we have Jesus who has redeemed us from the curse of the law.

And Precious Wavy.... God reminded me of Galatians 3:29

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God did not leave 'us' out of the Promise. God knew that Abraham did some messin' up and yet God redeemed 'us' all through the Blood of Jesus Christ.

PinkPebbles.... ^^^^ That was 'me' commenting my thoughts regarding the Rabbi's theory. I didn't mean to confuse anyone. I'm very sorry about that.

As for Hagar, she is/was an Egyptian. Whenever she is mentioned in the Bible it is

ALMOST​

always stated as she being an Egyptian.

Note: I had to emphazise 'Almost Always'

I believe it begins in Genesis chapter 16 and it continues in Genesis 21 and ummmmmm, I believe Genesis chapter 24 or 25.

I'll be right back... I'll pull up these chapters and post them.

Okay... here we are, I needed to pull these scriptures:

Genesis 16 vs 1-16 (shortened - note the blue text)

GENESIS 16

1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was HAGAR.
3 And Sarai Abram's wife took HAGAR her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
4 And he went in unto HAGAR, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
8 And he said, HAGAR, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
15 And HAGAR bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which HAGAR bare, Ishmael.
16 And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when HAGAR bare Ishmael to Abram.

Okay, here's Genesis chapter 21 -

GENESIS 21

9 And Sarah saw the son of HAGAR the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto HAGAR, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called to HAGAR out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, HAGAR? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.

One more... Here's Genesis Chapter 25 (not 24 as I said earlier).

GENESIS 25

12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom HAGAR the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham:

Okay... those ^^^^^^ are the scripture references.

Frrom my Biblical history teachings, I've heard several theories regarding Egyptians being considered Black (or 'African' if you will). Their skin was Black and there are several theories from different teachers who will say, the Eyptians were Black others say no they were not.

Personally, I believe there is a mix. As for Hagar, I am 'leaning' (key word: leaning) that she may (key word 'May') have been Black. I am simply not 'that' sure. This is where I 'waver'...

Regarding your question, that if we belong to Christ Jesus how can 'we' be cursed. Key words: in Christ Jesus?

PinkPebbles... I can take this in so many directions.

However, the key words of your heartfelt question are:

"Belong to Jesus" and the word "IF"

Not everyone belongs.

The scripture is clear... "IF you BELONG to Christ Jesus".... "IF" ...... "BELONG" ... "IF"

If we belong to Christ Jesus, then we have every promise which God made unto Abraham. But 'we' have to belong to Jesus for this redemption.

As for the Rabbi's theory regarding Ham... I believe it. I never thought about much until my daughter shared this with me.

I truly believe that Ham castrated his father, Noah. No other reason seems logical for Noah to respond with such anger... "Cursed be Cannan". The man was in extreme pain, horror, humiliation, now impotent, perhaps a eunuch?

Ummm, yeah... With a quickness, Noah shouted, "Cursed be Canaan".

Again, PinkPebbles...I apologize for the confusing post above. Now I betta check for typos in this one; I know I made them.



Disclaimer: I don't know everything. I'm still learning everyday.

 

[Laela]

Hosea 11:1

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

 

[Shimmie]

Hosea 11:1

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Yes... Yes... Yes.

 

[PinkPebbles]

Shimmie - you've said a lot and I appreciate you taking the time to explain and post!

I'm still a little confused about the purpose of the article and the message you wanted to convey in the Christian forum.

I guess I'm looking at things from a different perspective which is why I'm having a hard time following the underlying message....

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie - you've said a lot and I appreciate you taking the time to explain and post!

I'm still a little confused about the purpose of the article and the message you wanted to convey in the Christian forum.

I guess I'm looking at things from a different perspective which is why I'm having a hard time following the underlying message....

Please share what confuses you, as you wil be helping others who may have your very same questions.

I posted this article because it's Biblical and it has the value of knowledge regarding why Noah cursed Canaan. There are so many 'miss' theories 'out there' among Christians regarding this. This theory clears it up. Even though it came from a Rabbinical source, it clears up the 'mystery' and the 'errors of thought' of what happen back there.

Some of the other theories which revolve around this in many Christian churches do not measure up, they are only 'guesses'. I won't say I've heard them 'all', but I will say that I've heard more than enough about Noah and Ham. This is why I shared this in our Christian forum. Following the bloodline, it all leads to Jesus.

I hope this helps to answer why I posted this in the Christian forum and that the article does not offend anyone. It wasn't intended to; only to share and food for thought.

 

[Crown]

Please share what confuses you, as you wil be helping others who may have your very same questions.

I posted this article because it's Biblical and it has the value of knowledge regarding why Noah cursed Canaan. There are so many 'miss' theories 'out there' among Christians regarding this. This theory clears it up. Even though it came from a Rabbinical source, it clears up the 'mystery' and the 'errors of thought' of what happen back there.

Some of the other theories which revolve around this in many Christian churches do not measure up, they are only 'guesses'. I won't say I've heard them 'all', but I will say that I've heard more than enough about Noah and Ham. This is why I shared this in our Christian forum. Following the bloodline, it all leads to Jesus.

I hope this helps to answer why I posted this in the Christian forum and that the article does not offend anyone. It wasn't intended to; only to share and food for thought.

Sorry, but I am not so sure that this theory clears it up.
Castration has never been associated in the Bible at nakedness.

The Bible clearly states that uncovering the nakedness is performing a sexual act :
Lev. 20.11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness...

18.6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

18.19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness. 18.20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.
[SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE]

 

[Crown]

Shimmie, allow me please to post these two views of this specific event.


View 1
http://www.bibleinsight.com/crn1xs.html
Salah (Shelah) - His Father?
Arphaxad or Cainan or Canaan
…
This area of Genesis chapter 9 has never been clearly understood. How many
times have biblical commentaries condemned Ham, assuming he was the guilty
party in this account. They never explain why Canaan, and not Ham, was
cursed! (It should be noted Canaan was only one of several sons of Ham.
Gen 10:6. Canaan was not even the eldest son of Ham!)

In the Genesis 9:20-25 events Canaan, and not Ham, was guilty! In verse
24 the notion 'youngest son' would on the surface appear to identify the
offender as Ham, but the Hebrew meaning of the word 'son' is not as
specific as it is in English. In Hebrew the word 'son' is 'builder of
family name', an expression which may equally be used to refer to a
grandson or even a further removed descendant!

Prior to the incident recorded in Genesis 9:20-24 there is the mention of
only one grandson of Noah, his grandson Canaan. Refer verse 9:18. No other
grandson is mentioned until after the incident. Canaan also appears to have
been the youngest son of Ham (refer Gen 10:6 and 1Chr 1:8) and of course
Ham was the youngest son of Noah. So it is likely that at the time of the
incident the youngest male descendant of Noah was Canaan. Since the curse
was actually placed on Canaan, it is quite clear that by the description
'youngest son(descendant)' Canaan was being identified.
…


View 2

http://www.rmsbibleengineering.com/Page3/Page3_6.html
WHAT ABOUT NOAH? - DRUNK and NAKED!
…
Leviticus 18
6 "None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the LORD.
7 "The NAKEDNESS of your FATHER or the nakedness of your MOTHER you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 The NAKEDNESS of your FATHER's WIFE you shall not uncover; it is your FATHER's NAKEDNESS.
…

http://www.totustuus.com/noah.htm
The Drunkenness of Noah
…
Canaan is the illegitimate child of that immoral act. The other brothers, Shem and Japheth, on hearing Ham's boast respectfully support their father's rightful position (Genesis 9:23) and do not participate in his coup d'etat by assaulting the queen mother.
This interpretation makes understandable Noah's curse of Caanan (9:24) rather than his father, Ham. Caanan was the illegitimate son of this incestuous act. The meaning of the curse also becomes clearer. Ham attempted to supplant his father by sinfully substituting his potency, his generative powers, in place of his aged father who could no longer produce children. However, the father's curse thwarts Ham's evil plan. Thus, Ham is cursed where he is most vulnerable in the very son who was conceived in this disordering of the family order. This balances the scale. Ham attacks Noah's fatherhood. Noah curses Ham's illicit son.
…

 

[PinkPebbles]

Please share what confuses you, as you wil be helping others who may have your very same questions.

I posted this article because it's Biblical and it has the value of knowledge regarding why Noah cursed Canaan. There are so many 'miss' theories 'out there' among Christians regarding this. This theory clears it up. Even though it came from a Rabbinical source, it clears up the 'mystery' and the 'errors of thought' of what happen back there.

Some of the other theories which revolve around this in many Christian churches do not measure up, they are only 'guesses'. I won't say I've heard them 'all', but I will say that I've heard more than enough about Noah and Ham. This is why I shared this in our Christian forum. Following the bloodline, it all leads to Jesus.

I hope this helps to answer why I posted this in the Christian forum and that the article does not offend anyone. It wasn't intended to; only to share and food for thought.

Shimmie -

My confusion took place in Post #15 with the interpretation on how Abraham's sins have a direct effect on the African American community. I interpreted your post to infer that African Americans are cursed due to Abraham's decision to send his sons away rather than establish a father - son relationship.

I do not believe that a race of people can be cursed by their father or forefather's sins based on the scriptures I previously posted.

Many spiritual and religious leaders are quick to call a race of people cursed, but in actuality it's bad habits that have been passed down from one generation to the next due to lack of knowledge and exposure to a better quality of life.

The word cursed is synonymous to death, hopelessness, and punished throughout eternity; therefore, I refuse to believe that African Americans are cursed. Our race is not helpless or hopeless and it has been proven that we are well able to succeed in every aspect of life when we educate ourselves, and end unproductive habits.

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie -

My confusion took place in Post #15 with the interpretation on how Abraham's sins have a direct effect on the African American community. I interpreted your post to infer that African Americans are cursed due to Abraham's decision to send his sons away rather than establish a father - son relationship.

I do not believe that a race of people can be cursed by their father or forefather's sins based on the scriptures I previously posted.

Many spiritual and religious leaders are quick to call a race of people cursed, but in actuality it's bad habits that have been passed down from one generation to the next due to lack of knowledge and exposure to a better quality of life.

The word cursed is synonymous to death, hopelessness, and punished throughout eternity; therefore, I refuse to believe that African Americans are cursed. Our race is not helpless or hopeless and it has been proven that we are well able to succeed in every aspect of life when we educate ourselves, and end unproductive habits.

Pebbles, look at the Black Communiity...

Of all of the races in this earth this is a reality...

Africa has the highest instance of HIV / Aids, hunger, opression and poverty.

Here in America.. .

What race outnumbers the jail population?

Who leads in out of wedlock pregnancies and welfare?

Who leads in poorer education and iliteracy? And these are children of THIS generation and yet they cannot read.

There was a post in OT about the cheating scale in a Georga school system where Black children's grades were falsified; students were being passed and sent out into the 'world' under - educated.

What race is 'still' last in business? Even gays who are in the deepest of sin... unrepented sin at that.... are above the "Black community" in prosperity.

Face it! It you don't it will never go away. We can teach, preach, TD Jakes, Creflo Dollar, and whoever else all day long.... quote scripture all day long, yet there is STILL a curse among the Black community and if you do not see this for what it is, you are in sin for allowing it to continue.

There are sins of 'omission' and comission'. The sin of not doing what we should and the sin of doing what we should not.

There is indeed a 'curse' among Blacks. 'The light of the evidence cannot get any brighter.'

Dear one, I KNOW what the word curse means. When it comes to death, how many more BLACK communities need a funeral home established full and centered in the heart of their community and making more money than drug dealers.

Did you hear me?????

The funeral homes which have made their home and habitat in the heart of the Black communities are making more money than drug dealers?

Why is that? Because 'death' which is indeed a 'curse' as you well stated is the spirit which has 'hovered' over the Black community for generations in one form or another and it has YET to be cast out. YET!

I have had it up to my rear end with the pretenses and the denials, and the just plain selfishness that 'we' as a race have allowed to continue.

STOP quoting 'echos' of other preachers. Look at how they are living and giving in contrast to what you see in reality wih our community.

YES, we are the blessed of God. I know that I am indeed. I have riches and material gain that I have been totally blessed with. I have a physical being that exceeeds the majority of women in all races. I am healthy, healed, beautiful and all of that, which 'we' as Christians confess and confess and confess and confess out of FEAR, and yet there is still a curse upon those in our race who don't come anywhere near the blessings of God.

WHY? Until we get to the root of it and understand why and how it came about, we'll never be free. And that is just plain unnecessary.

Face the reality that there is a curse upon the Black race; it's there and we can confess scripture all day long and it is not going anywhere for if it was, it would have a long time ago. We have to acknowledge that there is a curse and find out why and then kill it at the root.

Why have 'we' not prospered? Why are our children fatherless? Why are our men sissies and punks for drugs and homosexuality? Why are our men in jail more than any others? Why are so many Black women unmarried? Why is there such a shortage of qualified Black men to become one with a Black woman?

It's a curse. Face it! It is a 'Curse'. Face it! Because it's there laughing in the face of the Black Human Race.

How dare an Asian rule over a Black woman's hair? Yet they do? Asians have their own country, yet they come here and sell their hair and products to us?

What is keeping a Black person from ruling the hair care business? Why do Blacks not have their own? Why are Blacks taking their meoney and making others rich and keeping themselves poor. That's what a curse does. It steals, KILLS and destroys.

Blacks are shooting, stabbing, killing, fighting each other every single day in multitudes. Self-hatred is highest among Blacks....

Please tell me what is 'blessed' about any of this?

It's a curse. Blessings do not fall as such. The word of God is so clear and as you read God's word regarding blessings and cursings, you cannot deny that there is a cursed spirit which has followed throughout the generations of the Black race.

Why is there so much 'mess' in the Black church?

The sins of the Father........ have followed... plain as day.

PinkPebbles, please don't be offended by this. Rather help our race to be blessed. "We" as Black Christians are the only hope to save who we are.

 

[PinkPebbles]

Pebbles, look at the Black Communiity...

Of all of the races in this earth this is a reality...

Africa has the highest instance of HIV / Aids, hunger, opression and poverty.

Here in America.. .

What race outnumbers the jail population?

Who leads in out of wedlock pregnancies and welfare?

Who leads in poorer education and iliteracy? And these are children of THIS generation and yet they cannot read.

There was a post in OT about the cheating scale in a Georga school system where Black children's grades were falsified; students were being passed and sent out into the 'world' under - educated.

What race is 'still' last in business? Even gays who are in the deepest of sin... unrepented sin at that.... are above the "Black community" in prosperity.

Face it! It you don't it will never go away. We can teach, preach, TD Jakes, Creflo Dollar, and whoever else all day long.... quote scripture all day long, yet there is STILL a curse among the Black community and if you do not see this for what it is, you are in sin for allowing it to continue.

There are sins of 'omission' and comission'. The sin of not doing what we should and the sin of doing what we should not.

There is indeed a 'curse' among Blacks. 'The light of the evidence cannot get any brighter.'

Dear one, I KNOW what the word curse means. When it comes to death, how many more BLACK communities need a funeral home established full and centered in the heart of their community and making more money than drug dealers.

Did you hear me?????

The funeral homes which have made their home and habitat in the heart of the Black communities are making more money than drug dealers?

Why is that? Because 'death' which is indeed a 'curse' as you well stated is the spirit which has 'hovered' over the Black community for generations in one form or another and it has YET to be cast out. YET!

I have had it up to my rear end with the pretenses and the denials, and the just plain selfishness that 'we' as a race have allowed to continue.

STOP quoting 'echos' of other preachers. Look at how they are living and giving in contrast to what you see in reality wih our community.

YES, we are the blessed of God. I know that I am indeed. I have riches and material gain that I have been totally blessed with. I have a physical being that exceeeds the majority of women in all races. I am healthy, healed, beautiful and all of that, which 'we' as Christians confess and confess and confess and confess out of FEAR, and yet there is still a curse upon those in our race who don't come anywhere near the blessings of God.

WHY? Until we get to the root of it and understand why and how it came about, we'll never be free. And that is just plain unnecessary.

Face the reality that there is a curse upon the Black race; it's there and we can confess scripture all day long and it is not going anywhere for if it was, it would have a long time ago. We have to acknowledge that there is a curse and find out why and then kill it at the root.

Why have 'we' not prospered? Why are our children fatherless? Why are our men sissies and punks for drugs and homosexuality? Why are our men in jail more than any others? Why are so many Black women unmarried? Why is there such a shortage of qualified Black men to become one with a Black woman?

It's a curse. Face it! It is a 'Curse'. Face it! Because it's there laughing in the face of the Black Human Race.

How dare an Asian rule over a Black woman's hair? Yet they do? Asians have their own country, yet they come here and sell their hair and products to us?

What is keeping a Black person from ruling the hair care business? Why do Blacks not have their own? Why are Blacks taking their meoney and making others rich and keeping themselves poor. That's what a curse does. It steals, KILLS and destroys.

Blacks are shooting, stabbing, killing, fighting each other every single day in multitudes. Self-hatred is highest among Blacks....

Please tell me what is 'blessed' about any of this?

It's a curse. Blessings do not fall as such. The word of God is so clear and as you read God's word regarding blessings and cursings, you cannot deny that there is a cursed spirit which has followed throughout the generations of the Black race.

Why is there so much 'mess' in the Black church?

The sins of the Father........ have followed... plain as day.

PinkPebbles, please don't be offended by this. Rather help our race to be blessed. "We" as Black Christians are the only hope to save who we are.

Wow at the tone of your post and your judgmental comments toward me because I do not agree with your interpretation....

enough said....carry on.....

 

[Crown]

If there is a curse -

Black people under the curse of Noah or Deuteronomy 28 ?
........

Anyway, the Messiah, The Word of God, made himself The curse to redeem us.

 

[Crown]

http://www.scripturessay.com/article.php?cat&id=257
Is Ham the father of the Black race?

I, too, have sadly heard this teaching espoused more than once. The world is full of bigots looking for some way to twist the scriptures in a way to put others down. It's sickening. It's despicable. The Mormons have actually had the gall to pervert this section of Genesis to teach exactly what you have indicated in order to justify their position on Blacks. They will now allow a black man to serve as an "Aaronic" priest.
The first thing we need to do is take a careful look at the text.
…
Before patriarchs died they uttered inspired predictions concerning their sons. Negative predictions are couched in the form of a curse; positive predictions take the form of blessings. Why Noah omits Ham from these prophetic utterances is not clear. Perhaps it was because he had already died. The patriarchal utterances of Noah may not have followed immediately upon the drunkenness incident. Noah lived 350 years after the Flood (verse 28). The mention of his death immediately following the predictions suggests that these utterances may have been made just before Noah's death. Ham may have died during those 350 years between the Flood and the final days of Noah. In any case, in his prophetic pronouncement Noah spoke three times concerning Canaan, twice concerning Shem and once concerning Japheth.

The question is, what is this curse? Canaan the son of Ham was cursed. A curse in the Bible is simply a negative prophecy pertaining to temporal life. Canaan was to be "A servant of servants He shall be to his brothers" (verse 25). This means that he was to be the lowliest of servants. The descendants of Canaan (Canaanites) would be servants first to their own brethren, the Hamites (verse 25), then to the Shemites (verse 26), and finally to the Japhethites (verse 27). We know from Bible history that the Egyptians were Hamites, the "brethren" of Canaan. They subjugated Canaan in the 15 century B.C.. When we read Genesis chapter ten we learn that the Assyrians and babylonians were Hamitic peoples. They dominated Canaan from the 8th to the 6th centuries B.C.. When the Shemitic Israelites invaded Canaan in the 14th century the second part of the prediction was fulfilled. During the conquests of Alexander the Great Canaan fell under the domination of the Japhethites. What we must understand is that the prophecies of Noah are a capsule of ancient history.

The curse on Canaan had nothing to do with the origin of the black race as some have contended. Ham had three sons besides Canaan. Cush was the father of the Ethiopians, Mizraim of the Egyptians, Phut of the Libyans and the peoples of Africa (see Genesis chapter 10). The curse placed on Canaan has to do only with Canaanites, a people who manifested none of the racial characteristics of the black race. The skin texture of Israelites and Canaanites at the time of Joshua's invasion was probably very similar. The problem concerning the Canaanites was not in the color of their skin but rather in the condition of their hearts.

[FONT=&quot]…[/FONT]
Remember that Canaan was not the progenitor of the Black race. Therefore the curse had nothing to do with skin color. This completely destroys the argument proffered by the bigots of this world.

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie, allow me please to post these two views of this specific event.


View 1
http://www.bibleinsight.com/crn1xs.html
Salah (Shelah) - His Father?
Arphaxad or Cainan or Canaan
…
This area of Genesis chapter 9 has never been clearly understood. How many
times have biblical commentaries condemned Ham, assuming he was the guilty
party in this account. They never explain why Canaan, and not Ham, was
cursed! (It should be noted Canaan was only one of several sons of Ham.
Gen 10:6. Canaan was not even the eldest son of Ham!)

In the Genesis 9:20-25 events Canaan, and not Ham, was guilty! In verse
24 the notion 'youngest son' would on the surface appear to identify the
offender as Ham, but the Hebrew meaning of the word 'son' is not as
specific as it is in English. In Hebrew the word 'son' is 'builder of
family name', an expression which may equally be used to refer to a
grandson or even a further removed descendant!

Prior to the incident recorded in Genesis 9:20-24 there is the mention of
only one grandson of Noah, his grandson Canaan. Refer verse 9:18. No other
grandson is mentioned until after the incident. Canaan also appears to have
been the youngest son of Ham (refer Gen 10:6 and 1Chr 1:8) and of course
Ham was the youngest son of Noah. So it is likely that at the time of the
incident the youngest male descendant of Noah was Canaan. Since the curse
was actually placed on Canaan, it is quite clear that by the description
'youngest son(descendant)' Canaan was being identified.
…


View 2

http://www.rmsbibleengineering.com/Page3/Page3_6.html
WHAT ABOUT NOAH? - DRUNK and NAKED!
…
Leviticus 18
6 "None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the LORD.
7 "The NAKEDNESS of your FATHER or the nakedness of your MOTHER you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 The NAKEDNESS of your FATHER's WIFE you shall not uncover; it is your FATHER's NAKEDNESS.
…

http://www.totustuus.com/noah.htm
The Drunkenness of Noah
…
Canaan is the illegitimate child of that immoral act. The other brothers, Shem and Japheth, on hearing Ham's boast respectfully support their father's rightful position (Genesis 9:23) and do not participate in his coup d'etat by assaulting the queen mother.
This interpretation makes understandable Noah's curse of Caanan (9:24) rather than his father, Ham. Caanan was the illegitimate son of this incestuous act. The meaning of the curse also becomes clearer. Ham attempted to supplant his father by sinfully substituting his potency, his generative powers, in place of his aged father who could no longer produce children. However, the father's curse thwarts Ham's evil plan. Thus, Ham is cursed where he is most vulnerable in the very son who was conceived in this disordering of the family order. This balances the scale. Ham attacks Noah's fatherhood. Noah curses Ham's illicit son.
…

In the 27 plus years of my Salvation, I've heard more versions (theories) of Noah, Ham and Canaan then i can count on one hand.

A few:

* Ham saw Noah having sex with his wife (Ham's mom)

Which seemed 'right'... when applied to the scripture from Leviticus 20 ...

* Ham accidentally saw his father drunk and naked. Noah woke up embarrassed and cursed him.

* Another theory is that Ham had a homosexual incounter with his father, Noah...

I never bought that one...

The best source is the Hebrew context ...

Ham did something that the text (Genesis 9:22) refers to as “seeing his father’s nakedness.” Then, Noah awakens and utters a dreadful curse against Canaan.

And he said, “Cursed is Canaan...”
(Genesis 9:25)

Why would Noah punish Ham’s fourth son rather than the miscreant himself? How did a sleeping Noah even know what Ham did?

Ancient Jewish wisdom teaches that the Torah uses euphemistic language.

As I read the words ... "Then Noah awakens...."

If Ham had witnessed Noah having sex with his wife, what would Noah be asleep? How indeed would he know that Ham had witnessed the act of sex? Does it say that Noah's wife told Noah that Ham saw them?

How could Noah have sex while he was asleep?

Ham uncovered his father's nakedness...

"To Uncover" also means just that... to see one naked. It's not solely seeing one in the act of sex.

Ham did something more than see his father Noah naked... he did something more to hurt him. He took away his ability to be fruitful and multiply.

----

I have to produce the entire message. If I'm not mistaken I may be able to download it.

Am I out to convince others to believe what I believe?

Nooooooooooo .... No, not at all. That's not right.

I just know that all of these years of hearing one theory after another about Ham and Noah... something finally makes a whole lot of sense.

I'm just sharing. No disputes on what others believe. I'm just sharing.

Blessings and I truly mean this.

 

[Shimmie]

If there is a curse -

Black people under the curse of Noah or Deuteronomy 28 ?
........

Anyway, the Messiah, The Word of God, made himself The curse to redeem us.

Indeed the Messiah... Our Jesus has redeemd us, but how many are walking in and living in His Blood shed redemption?

Look at the evdence around us? Something is amiss? Blessed people do not live like this.... they just don't.