How I Learned That Being West Indian Didn't Make Me Better Than African Americans

[CaraWalker]

No lies were told. Not everyone thinks like this but let's be truthful. We all know a good number who do.

if this is true then how do africans mentally reconcile the fact that they are basing their self worth on getting white people to like them? yall dont feel some kind of way about that? i can see how you would arrive at the "special negro syndrome" but its less clear to me how you can be ok with basically playing a stepin fetchit role to white people in order to maintain your sense of self.

 

[Honey Bee]

if this is true then how do africans mentally reconcile the fact that they are basing their self worth on getting white people to like them? yall dont feel some kind of way about that? i can see how you would arrive at the "special negro syndrome" but its less clear to me how you can be ok with basically playing a stepin fetchit role to white people in order to maintain your sense of self.

I don't think they concern themselves with any of that. Their goal here is money, not respect.

 

[beingofserenity]

Whatever. This stuff goes both ways. Tons of AAs who feel infinitely superior to WI/Africans.

 

[FelaShrine]

Another thing is, we don't see whites as enemies but friends and associates with resources that can help us move up the economic ladder.

Yall do? despite the history with the French? interesting.

 

[1QTPie]

Good for her.

 

[LaBelleLL]

Being Haitian myself, this article is a bit strange to me. My family came from Haiti to the U.S. in the late 70s after the Duvalier regime and emphasized the importance of keeping God first, hard work, and education to make something of yourself. And that's what we did and nearly all the second and third generation of our families graduated from college with bachelor's or master's, has a professional career, their own homes, etc. Our story is no different than other immigrants like Nigerians and Jamaicans.

I don't think any of us think we're better than African-Americans. We are all a part of the African diaspora. I think it's sometimes the excuses that are made in the AA community for why one cannot succeed that is foreign to the traditional mentality of an immigrant. Another thing is, we don't see whites as enemies but friends and associates with resources that can help us move up the economic ladder.

see this is a different grade of haitian that i am not very familiar with. i hear they exist and i guess it's true. i feel like you are trolling but i have bit the bait.

attention lhcf - this is a broad sweeping statement that is not true. Haitians - people of the first black republic in the western hemisphere - on a whole, do not see whites as friends and associates. ESPECIALLY the EDUCATED ones. when many Haitians arrive to the US, they may not concern themselves or even understand the US racial system. this is largely bc Haiti's inequality and oppression largely functions along the lines of class, not race. it takes time to recognize this difference to even begin to understand U.S. race politics.

 

[sj10460]

Thank you for providing an example of the behavior in the op. I was wondering when the 'Yeah, but...' would start.

don't feed them...don't take the bait

 

[CaraWalker]

see this is a different grade of haitian that i am not very familiar with. i hear they exist and i guess it's true. i feel like you are trolling but i have bit the bait.

attention lhcf - this is a broad sweeping statement that is not true. Haitians - people of the first black republic in the western hemisphere - on a whole, do not see whites as friends and associates. ESPECIALLY the EDUCATED ones. when many Haitians arrive to the US, they may not concern themselves or even understand the US racial system. this is largely bc Haiti's inequality and oppression largely functions along the lines of class, not race. it takes time to recognize this difference to even begin to understand U.S. race politics.

is this true? i have to admit i was really not aware of the dynamics between blacks and africans until very recently. i remember once spotting two black girls chatting together at an alumni mixer and being relieved and trying to talk to them. they were not having it. i realize now its because they were african and i am not...

i dont think much about it because at this time it's not something very impactful in my life... i dont come across africans or first generation immigrants very often. i went to school with a family of nigerians, and became friendly with the girl around my age as adults. we were fb friends and both found each other hilarious. (turns out we both had a relationship with the same guy at one time and never even knew, how crazy is that ) she is a year younger than me but she was already killing it in her career path. i was like, YAS, *****, YAS!!!! and proud that people like her were walking around in black skin. it would make me sad to think for the most part africans dont feel any kind of kinship with someone like me.

on the other hand, i think i might understand it... i think generally africans do work harder than african americans and for all i know i might really have a part of a victim mentality regarding discrimination against bp preventing mobility... because i do think less in the line of "work yourself to the bone and forget the self righteousness" and more "we are a broken people and it needs to be recognized that these circumstances were not caused solely by us." it doesnt seem like africans believe that, or spend time addressing that. but at the same time i don't think it's right to ignore the reality of the consequences of racism on black americans... i would hope that people would want to help fix things rather than adopt an "i dont care get over it" attitude... idk, man. we have no solidarity as a people.

 

[LaBelleLL]

is this true? i have to admit i was really not aware of the dynamics between blacks and africans until very recently. i remember once spotting two black girls chatting together at an alumni mixer and being relieved and trying to talk to them. they were not having it. i realize now its because they were african and i am not...

i dont think much about it because at this time it's not something very impactful in my life... i dont come across africans or first generation immigrants very often. i went to school with a family of nigerians, and became friendly with the girl around my age as adults. we were fb friends and both found each other hilarious. (turns out we both had a relationship with the same guy at one time and never even knew, how crazy is that ) she is a year younger than me but she was already killing it in her career path. i was like, YAS, *****, YAS!!!! and proud that people like her were walking around in black skin. it would make me sad to think for the most part africans dont feel any kind of kinship with someone like me.

on the other hand, i think i might understand it... i think generally africans do work harder than african americans and for all i know i might really have a part of a victim mentality regarding discrimination against bp preventing mobility... because i do think less in the line of "work yourself to the bone and forget the self righteousness" and more "we are a broken people and it needs to be recognized that these circumstances were not caused solely by us." it doesnt seem like africans believe that, or spend time addressing that. but at the same time i don't think it's right to ignore the reality of the consequences of racism on black americans... i would hope that people would want to help fix things rather than adopt an "i dont care get over it" attitude... idk, man. we have no solidarity as a people.

i'm not african and can't speak for africans. but in the bolded statement, you can remove the word african and put haitian and that is true for so many. and it's not forget the self rightenousness. it's more or less like - just work. you came here for a purpose and do what you came here to do. one would have to know the US racial politics to even begin to know to forget the self righteousness - that this is even a part of the landscape here. but then there are the more educated ones who are aware of the Haiti and US dynamic and trust - they don't run around loving white people.

 

[kanozas]

I think the most damaging part of all of this is how people keep searching for commonalities. People are different - all races, all cultures. Stop trying to find one bag to jump into because of anti-black prejudice and experiences. It's ok to be different. It should be more ok to educate oneself on the differences between people and not to consider another less-than.

What's funny to most is people arriving at the most marginalized areas of a country ("hoods") and proclaiming how better behaved and educated they are. Would any AA traveler/middle-class and above/educated/poor-but-upwardly-mobile land in a slum in Africa or the Caribbean and gloat at how much "different" they are? If I landed in a favela in northwestern Rio, should I gloat at how much "better" I am in comparison? People find the worst neighborhoods to live in (money issues) and feel special. Why not land among doctors and lawyers in a rich area of town with plenty AA professionals....or arrive in a modest hood area with plenty of working/university-attending AA people and then compare self? Why not acknowledge those they work UNDER who are AA's who run circles around them?

No, people want to find the worst examples and pin that as the typical "those people" culture and them get clarity when someone white is hateful. That's not putting someone into their place, by the way, it's prejudice, pure and simple. There is not "place" anybody should be and the realization about prejudice is just part of life. This is beating a dead horse and discussed ad nauseum on here, often resulting in fights. I'm not saying you don't have the right to post it....but it's nothing new. By the way, AA privilege does exist abroad. I've seen it in motion and it operates the same, exact way. Do people live so isolated that the only AA's they are in contact with are g-dless, uneducated, drug-addicted cretons? Incredible. That's false blindness.

 

[Ogoma]

This must be an American thing. The only AAs I ever knew about were the celebrities when I was younger and the listing of influential black people they used to have on the first few pages of Ebony as I grew older (do they still do this?). I didn't even know about ghettos until Juice/Poetic Justice/rest of the genre, and I watched years after they came out.

Back to the story: I laughed for a good minute that she thought her straight (relaxed) hair would protect her from racism. Is she for real?

 

[JudithO]

Let me step back and say that I know a lot of Nigerians that think this way. Reason being that the only images they see of AA's are those in the hood, drugs, shootings and prison. However, those people are just as closed minded and unlearned as Americans who think that all Africans run around naked and live in mud houses. People that think like this are not worth having such complex conversations with because (IMO) they do not (yet) have the intellectual capacity to process that line of thinking.

 

[Ogoma]

is this true? i have to admit i was really not aware of the dynamics between blacks and africans until very recently. i remember once spotting two black girls chatting together at an alumni mixer and being relieved and trying to talk to them. they were not having it. i realize now its because they were african and i am not...

i dont think much about it because at this time it's not something very impactful in my life... i dont come across africans or first generation immigrants very often. i went to school with a family of nigerians, and became friendly with the girl around my age as adults. we were fb friends and both found each other hilarious. (turns out we both had a relationship with the same guy at one time and never even knew, how crazy is that ) she is a year younger than me but she was already killing it in her career path. i was like, YAS, *****, YAS!!!! and proud that people like her were walking around in black skin. it would make me sad to think for the most part africans dont feel any kind of kinship with someone like me.

on the other hand, i think i might understand it... i think generally africans do work harder than african americans and for all i know i might really have a part of a victim mentality regarding discrimination against bp preventing mobility... because i do think less in the line of "work yourself to the bone and forget the self righteousness" and more "we are a broken people and it needs to be recognized that these circumstances were not caused solely by us." it doesnt seem like africans believe that, or spend time addressing that. but at the same time i don't think it's right to ignore the reality of the consequences of racism on black americans... i would hope that people would want to help fix things rather than adopt an "i dont care get over it" attitude... idk, man. we have no solidarity as a people.

Isn't the author Haitian? Haiti is not in Africa.

 

[kanozas]

This must be an American thing. The only AAs I ever knew about were the celebrities when I was younger and the listing of influential black people they used to have on the first few pages of Ebony as I grew older (do they still do this?). I didn't even know about ghettos until Juice/Poetic Justice/rest of the genre, and I watched years after they came out.

Back to the story: I laughed for a good minute that she thought her straight (relaxed) hair would protect her from racism. Is she for real?

Have you ever lived in the Caribbean or S. America? It's a real issue.

 

[Ogoma]

Have you ever lived in the Caribbean or S. America? It's a real issue.

Interesting. I had no clue people thought that.

 

[LeftRightRepeat]

Interesting. I had no clue people thought that.

I've never heard of that though.

 

[kanozas]

Interesting. I had no clue people thought that.

Let me tell ya....you can get whisteled at (not in the sexy kinda way) for having natural hair. You can and will get passed over for jobs for looking a certain way. Incidentally, in PR, I was applying for a position while in school with a govt. dept. and a Haitian woman was HORRIBLY evil to me in the interview. I actually broke down and cried later. That's when someone told me how Haitians live hell in PR and turn on others they view as competition . Then I remembered after-the-fact that this interviewer and head of a certain dept. (very influential woman) made mention of it. She was very dark-skinned, had 1 inch short tight afro....said that people openly called her a "monkey" on the job. !! SMH. And then I began to notice how girls with loose curls or straight hair faired better than those who didn't look that way - mostly Black folks from other Islands like British V.I. It's real as a muva. And I could be wrong, but in Haiti, having relaxed hair is a show of status considering the extreme poverty there.

 

[Honey Bee]

don't feed them...don't take the bait

Hey! I coulda jumped in her ass.

 

[sj10460]

This must be an American thing. The only AAs I ever knew about were the celebrities when I was younger and the listing of influential black people they used to have on the first few pages of Ebony as I grew older (do they still do this?). I didn't even know about ghettos until Juice/Poetic Justice/rest of the genre, and I watched years after they came out.

Back to the story: I laughed for a good minute that she thought her straight (relaxed) hair would protect her from racism. Is she for real?

aren't you from Canada? You learned about ghettos/poverty from an American movie that debuted in the 90s?

 

[LaBelleLL]

hello. she's white. this is why the dots aren't connecting.

 

[lux10023]

i read the title and thought this must be a joke...the author didnt know that..she foolish

Haitians aren't even West Indian though.

 

[bajandoc86]

if this is true then how do africans mentally reconcile the fact that they are basing their self worth on getting white people to like them? yall dont feel some kind of way about that? i can see how you would arrive at the "special negro syndrome" but its less clear to me how you can be ok with basically playing a stepin fetchit role to white people in order to maintain your sense of self.

I can't speak for those from the African Continent.

I grew up going to public school in Barbados with Bajan whites, so I have no fairytales about them (white people as a group).

I was really referring to the phenomena where some of us (Caribbean people) go over to the USA and do well, and compare themselves to AAs and come to the conclusion that we are just better. Without truly understanding the impact of their history. Look down on them, their culture, but yet refuse to leave. LOL!

Yes we have similarites i.e. Plantocracy and slavery etc, but how do you compare the American construct to your own when you grew up in a nation that is 95% black, where everyone in politics or most people in business/education etc are black. For many of us in the Caribbean socioeconomic class trumps race with a dash of colourism.

 

[FlowerHair]

I think the most damaging part of all of this is how people keep searching for commonalities. People are different - all races, all cultures. Stop trying to find one bag to jump into because of anti-black prejudice and experiences. It's ok to be different. It should be more ok to educate oneself on the differences between people and not to consider another less-than.

What's funny to most is people arriving at the most marginalized areas of a country ("hoods") and proclaiming how better behaved and educated they are. Would any AA traveler/middle-class and above/educated/poor-but-upwardly-mobile land in a slum in Africa or the Caribbean and gloat at how much "different" they are? If I landed in a favela in northwestern Rio, should I gloat at how much "better" I am in comparison? People find the worst neighborhoods to live in (money issues) and feel special. Why not land among doctors and lawyers in a rich area of town with plenty AA professionals....or arrive in a modest hood area with plenty of working/university-attending AA people and then compare self? Why not acknowledge those they work UNDER who are AA's who run circles around them?

No, people want to find the worst examples and pin that as the typical "those people" culture and them get clarity when someone white is hateful. That's not putting someone into their place, by the way, it's prejudice, pure and simple. There is not "place" anybody should be and the realization about prejudice is just part of life. This is beating a dead horse and discussed ad nauseum on here, often resulting in fights. I'm not saying you don't have the right to post it....but it's nothing new. By the way, AA privilege does exist abroad. I've seen it in motion and it operates the same, exact way. Do people live so isolated that the only AA's they are in contact with are g-dless, uneducated, drug-addicted cretons? Incredible. That's false blindness.

So true.

People from the same class recognize each other all over the world and have lots of things in common...

 

[Ogoma]

aren't you from Canada? You learned about ghettos/poverty from an American movie that debuted in the 90s?

Yes. Where else was I supposed to learn about it? It wasn't in my city and I wasn't driving past it. It is a bit narcissistic for you to expect me to know all about you. What do you know about black Canadians?

 

[kanozas]

I

I was really referring to the phenomena where some of us (Caribbean people) go over to the USA and do well, and compare themselves to AAs and come to the conclusion that we are just better. Without truly understanding the impact of their history. Look down on them, their culture, but yet refuse to leave. LOL!

.

What I don't comprehend is why people are comparing themselves to the lowest common denominator in a certain, limited ethnic area rather than someone from their similar "class" or those similar values and determination. It's useless to compare oneself to a homeless bum and say that is the majority of AA's but not compare oneself to the AA doctor, dentist, banker, lawyer, Ph.D., politician etc. they can't afford to live next to or have to defer to at work. I'm not charging you personally at all...I'm trying to figure out how this thing happens as there appears to be a huge disconnect. It's like the majority of AA's (certainly above poverty level and are educated like anyone else and even with higher education) are inconspicuous. It's not unlike AA Blacks in Europe as the pet and exemplary Black people compared to Africans and Caribbeans. Same sh*t, different meal consumed

Something I became aware of a few years ago had to do with New Jersey and the Camden area. Someone assumed Caribbean Blacks fared better, esp. with higher education. What was not mentioned was that Caribbeans are the majority Black population there and the surrounding universities and even Ivy Leagues were recruiting per ethnicity - Caribbean, not traditional AA's - with scholarships and the like. I guess that if the majority population is one type and they see themselves in the majority and moving up, they would probably think they were better off if the other population in that limited type of environment were down and out. AndI think that means that they lived in the worst areas with those not being the typical experiences of AA's. Statistically, it's not, but perception, esp. that pushed by the media, is another thing.

 

[sj10460]

All about me? I'm not from the ghetto nor did I grow up in one.

I'm going to be tactful and say that I misunderstood your previous post.

Yes. Where else was I supposed to learn about it? It was in my city and I wasn't driving past it. It is a bit narcissistic for you to expect me to know all about you. What do you know about black Canadians?

 

[Honey Bee]

Look down on them, their culture, but yet refuse to leave. LOL!

.

 

[Ogoma]

All about me? I'm not from the ghetto nor did I grow up in one.

I'm going to be tactful and say that I misunderstood your previous post.

Okay. My previous post was basically stating we didn't talk about AAs in my house because we didn't have any contact with them as a group. Outside of individual celebrities we wouldn't have known what to talk about. In short, there needs to be familiarity to be contempt.

 

[Ogoma]

I am never going to understand the consternation these posts bring. On average AA are wealthier and more privileged than the average black person in any country in Africa, the Caribbean, and South America. There is nothing you gain from them pairing with you and they gain from you pairing with them. Why would the more privileged group be so concerned about how the less privileged group sees them. They are quite frankly unimportant to anything you hope to achieve. Now the write came to this realization, what happened? Which AAs life was vastly improved by her 'coming over to the other side'? Whatever she was going before had no bearing and what she is doing now has no bearing on anyone's life but hers.

 

[Ganjababy]

Not all Black Africans who feel a sense of superiority over AA get it from white peoples validation of them.

Some have never lived in the US and so have no interaction with these U.S. divide to conquer whites. Some of this superiority complex stems from the fact that AA's (and other black slave descendants in the diaspora) are descended from slaves and they lost their African culture. Some Africans see us as culture-less slave descendants who are confused about our identities. They see us as black but not of them. Almost alien, second class cousins.

Not everyone's views are nuanced through the white/black gaze...

if this is true then how do africans mentally reconcile the fact that they are basing their self worth on getting white people to like them? yall dont feel some kind of way about that? i can see how you would arrive at the "special negro syndrome" but its less clear to me how you can be ok with basically playing a stepin fetchit role to white people in order to maintain your sense of self.