Hydrolyzed Silk Protein = SAA?

[CocoGlow]

Question:

Is Hydrolyzed Silk Protein the same thing as SAA?

It may sound like a silly question but I'm not sure....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

**Here is the description of Hydrolyzed Silk Protein from www.the-soap-dish.com

Lipid/Protein conditioner for use in both hair and skin care. Wonderful in lotions, shampoos, and conditioners. Not recommended for CP soapmaking. Viscous, gold colored liquid which should be added to finished product. Use in Deep Hair Conditioner , or Luxury Lotion formula.
Recommended usage 2 - 5%.
INCI: Quaternium-79 Hydrolyzed Silk Protein

**Here is the description of Silk Amino Acids from www.lotioncrafter.com

Hydrolyzed from pure silk fibers, silk amino acids have a lower molecular weight than silk protein powders and are penetrating and moisturizing to skin and hair. Our Silk Amino Acids have been decolorized and deodorized -- making them an exceptional addition to even the most delicate of formulations. Recommended for formulating shampoos, conditioner, hair treatments, bodywash, body lotions, cleansers, toners and facial moisturizers, mascara, lipstick and color cosmetics.
Recommended Usage Level: 1-2.5%
Specific Gravity: 1.06
Appearance: Clear to Light Yellow Liquid with little odor
INCI: Silk Amino Acids

~~~~~~~~~
They sound similar but there are some differences in the descriptions (for example the INCI for the 1st one says "Quaternium-79 Hydrolyzed Silk Protein", while the 2nd one says "Silk Amino Acids") so I am a little confused....

 

[Carolina18]

Yep, as far as I know, they're the same thing.

 

[Fine 4s]

Great question!

I noticed the word "Quaternium." So, does this mean if added to a condish concoction or even a cheapie, we can instantly turn it into a deep condish? Also, is this a mild protein?

However this sentence suggests that both products might be slightly diffferent: "Hydrolyzed from pure silk fibers, silk amino acids have a lower molecular weight than silk protein powders and are penetrating and moisturizing to skin and hair."

 

[CocoGlow]

Thanks for your responses ladies!!

This is bothering me b/c it seems as if lotioncrafters.com is one of the few places selling "Silk Amino Acids" while many other sites are selling "Hydrolyzed Silk Protein" ... they MUST be the same thing...and guess what?...I am finding the Hydrolyzed Silk Protein at cheaper prices!

I really need some Silk experts to chime in...I really think they are the same but I want to be sure...I already ordered the SAA but I will order the HSP when I run out if someone confirms that they are the same b/c it's cheaper...

 

[Social.Buttahfly]

great question

 

[JustKiya]

Technically, proteins are built from Amino Acids - if you think of protein as a house, amino acids would be the bricks.

With that said, I would suspect that the silk protein is a bigger molecule than the silk amino acids - thus, it would take less processing to manufacture the protein making it cheaper, and the amino acids should penetrate the hair easier.

Without the actual molecular details, though - who knows what they are selling under the guise of 'marketing'.

The easiest way to be certain would be to email two companies - one selling SP, the other selling SAA, and ask then what the difference is between the two.

 

[CocoGlow]

Technically, proteins are built from Amino Acids - if you think of protein as a house, amino acids would be the bricks.

With that said, I would suspect that the silk protein is a bigger molecule than the silk amino acids - thus, it would take less processing to manufacture the protein making it cheaper, and the amino acids should penetrate the hair easier.

Without the actual molecular details, though - who knows what they are selling under the guise of 'marketing'.

The easiest way to be certain would be to email two companies - one selling SP, the other selling SAA, and ask then what the difference is between the two.

JustKiya...I just got off the phone w/ a woman from this site that sells Hydrolyzed Silk Protein .. she said that it is the same as SAA, just another name for it (I'm guessing Hydrolyzed Silk Protein is the more technical name)....I just ordered it..I also ordered the SAA yesterday so hopefully I will get both around the same time and compare them....

From what I have been reading, it is the hydrolyzation of the silk proteins (amino acids) that makes them penetrate the hair easier, and since both SAA & HSP claim to be hydrolyzed, they must be the same thing!

When comparing the prices, lotioncrafters.com is definitely not the cheapest route -- if I find that they are the same thing I will continue to order from this other site:

http://www.missashtynssupplies.net/catalog/item/5368870/5438210.htm
"Hydrolyzed Silk Protein"
$13 - 8oz
$18 per lb (16oz)


http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Silk-Amino-Acids-pr-16295.html
"Silk Amino Acids"
$16.95 - 8oz
$31.95 per lb (16oz)

 

[JustKiya]

http://www.missashtynssupplies.net/catalog/item/5368870/5438210.htm
"Hydrolyzed Silk Protein"
$13 - 8oz
$18 per lb (16oz)


http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Silk-Amino-Acids-pr-16295.html
"Silk Amino Acids"
$16.95 - 8oz
$31.95 per lb (16oz)

Interesting. Her pricing scale is - odd. Only another 5 dollars for double the amount? Interesting. Lemme look around some - that would rock!

ETA:

Okay.

One thing I noticed right away - the INCI (International Nomenclature of Cosmetic Ingredients) for the SP says: Quarternium-79, which is Hydrolized Silk Protiens - also sold here - even cheaper for the 8oz size.
The INCI for the Lotioncrafters SAA says - Silk Amino Acids - which are also sold here for about the same price as lotioncrafters.

I know you can use more than one INCI name for the same ingredient - all of the different ways of saying 'mineral oil' is a prime example. I'm downloading a list of INCI names from the EU now - hopefully it will have something useful on it....

 

[JustKiya]

OooWEEE! I'm going to share this link for all my fellow ingredient hunters - this is FABULOUS - http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/cosmetics/html/cosm_inci_list.htm - it's a PDF file (over 600 pages!) containing the chemical names for cosmetic items.

Anyhow!

Hydrolized Silk Protiens: 2-Hydroxy-1-propanaminium, N, N-dimethyl-N-(coco-alkyl)-, 3-
hydrolyzed silk, chlorides

Silk Amino Acids: 2-Hydroxy-1-propanaminium, N, N-dimethyl-N-(coco-alkyl)-, 3-
silk-amino-acids, chlorides

So. According to the EU, there's something different about them. Whether that chemical difference will translate into something different in our hair - hopefully your experiment will tell. The uses also say that SAA is a skin conditioner, while the SP isn't.

Interesting.

 

[CocoGlow]

OooWEEE! I'm going to share this link for all my fellow ingredient hunters - this is FABULOUS - http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/cosmetics/html/cosm_inci_list.htm - it's a PDF file (over 600 pages!) containing the chemical names for cosmetic items.

Anyhow!

Hydrolized Silk Protiens: 2-Hydroxy-1-propanaminium, N, N-dimethyl-N-(coco-alkyl)-, 3-
hydrolyzed silk, chlorides

Silk Amino Acids: 2-Hydroxy-1-propanaminium, N, N-dimethyl-N-(coco-alkyl)-, 3-
silk-amino-acids, chlorides

So. According to the EU, there's something different about them. Whether that chemical difference will translate into something different in our hair - hopefully your experiment will tell. The uses also say that SAA is a skin conditioner, while the SP isn't.

Interesting.

JustKiya....Thanks for the link!..so it appears that the two are almost exactly alike..interestingly enough, they have the same chemical name.....

The only difference I can see is the Hydrolyzed Silk has anti-static properties and the Silk Amino Acid does not...both have humectant & hair & skin conditioning properties.....

HYDROLYZED SILK
Chemical Name: Protein hydrolyzates, silk.
Function: antistatic / humectant / hair conditioning / skin conditioning

SILK AMINO ACIDS
Chemical Name: Protein hydrolyzates, silk.
Function: humectant / hair conditioning / skin conditioning

************************
I also noticed other slight differences between the 2 in the descriptions for them on the sites that sell them:

Hydrolyzed Silk Protein
www.theherbarie.com

Physical Form: Moderately viscous liquid, gold colored.
Recommended usage: 2-5%.

Silk Amino Acid
www.theherbarie.com

Physical Form: Odorless, slightly yellow liquid
Recommended use levels: 1.0 - 10.0%.

 

[CocoGlow]

whew I feel like a MAD scientist..I better be tripping over my napps this time next year..all this hard work!

 

[JustKiya]

They seem SO close, that I wonder if we could really tell a difference in our hair - I look forward to your comparison!!!

How are you going to do it?

 

[SparklingFlame]

Go 'head you mad scientists you!!

Great thread!

 

[CocoGlow]

I don't know..I guess the easiest way would be to use one on each side of my hair to see if I feel a difference

I WANT to add it to everything but I NEED to start slow so that I can track it better and not overdo it

I'll start small and make 2 versions of the same moisture spritz and add the Hydrolyzed Silk to one and the Silk Amino Acids to the other and see what happens....can't wait!!!

you know I'll post updates immediately LOL

JustKiya....Do you REALLY notice a difference using SAA? I mean, is it truly noticeable and uniquely amazing---like no other product or ingredient can come close to making your hair feel that way?

It's hard for me to believe that a few drops of this could have everyone in an uproar but I guess it's THAT good...yall had me jumping on this bandwagon real quick w/ all those testimonials!

~StillALady~ ... LOL.... As soon as my package arrives, I'm putting on my white coat and going to work!!!

 

[JustKiya]

I don't know..I guess the easiest way would be to use one on each side of my hair to see if I feel a difference

I WANT to add it to everything but I NEED to start slow so that I can track it better and not overdo it

I'll start small and make 2 versions of the same moisture spritz and add the Hydrolyzed Silk to one and the Silk Amino Acids to the other and see what happens....can't wait!!!

you know I'll post updates immediately LOL

JustKiya....Do you REALLY notice a difference using SAA? I mean, is it truly noticeable and uniquely amazing---like no other product or ingredient can come close to making your hair feel that way?

It's hard for me to believe that a few drops of this could have everyone in an uproar but I guess it's THAT good...yall had me jumping on this bandwagon real quick w/ all those testimonials!

~StillALady~ ... LOL.... As soon as my package arrives, I'm putting on my white coat and going to work!!!

*thinks*

I can definitely say that when I started adding SAA to my spritz, my hair felt silkier and softer OVERNIGHT. I orginally got on the SAA thing, because my precious, my love, Elasta QP Intense has it in there, and no conditioner has ever made my hair feel like THAT. But! I started using the SAA AND honeyquat at the same time - so I can't say for CERTAIN that it wasn't just the honeyquat upping the moisture in my head.

My hair has been overwhelming FABULOUS lately, but I don't know if that's the SAA in everything, the honeyquat, or the Mega-Tek, or the ayurvedics. Whatever it is though, my hair is sanging....

I CAN say (and I'll have pictures the week after next or so) that using SAA on my eyelashes has almost doubled their length - and I started using in Mar 22nd, and I'd say I use it 4-5 out of 7 days a week in clear mascara - and the difference is obvious.

I look at my mad scientist tendencies this way - big business has done little to NO research on the science of products that WORK and allow naturally tightly curled/kinky hair to achieve it's maximum - so us armchair scientists have to step in and make some small attempt to fill in the gap.

 

[CocoGlow]

*thinks*

I can definitely say that when I started adding SAA to my spritz, my hair felt silkier and softer OVERNIGHT. I orginally got on the SAA thing, because my precious, my love, Elasta QP Intense has it in there, and no conditioner has ever made my hair feel like THAT. But! I started using the SAA AND honeyquat at the same time - so I can't say for CERTAIN that it wasn't just the honeyquat upping the moisture in my head.

My hair has been overwhelming FABULOUS lately, but I don't know if that's the SAA in everything, the honeyquat, or the Mega-Tek, or the ayurvedics. Whatever it is though, my hair is sanging....

I CAN say (and I'll have pictures the week after next or so) that using SAA on my eyelashes has almost doubled their length - and I started using in Mar 22nd, and I'd say I use it 4-5 out of 7 days a week in clear mascara - and the difference is obvious.

I look at my mad scientist tendencies this way - big business has done little to NO research on the science of products that WORK and allow naturally tightly curled/kinky hair to achieve it's maximum - so us armchair scientists have to step in and make some small attempt to fill in the gap.

I totally agree...it actually makes me feel good ...I feel so much wiser now that I buy products based on ingredients and not the bold print on the label promising "Ultra, Mega, Super, Growth, Moisture, Recovery, blah blah blah" .. I don't have to depend on some company to get it right!

I am actually proud to be an Ingredient Junkie ....I am always learning and becoming more & more enlightened with the help of wonderful forums like this one were brilliant ideas are born.....

And all this experimenting actually makes me feel empowered and no longer a slave to this brand or that brand...my goal is to figure out what blend of ingredients benefit my hair/scalp and to eventually create my own economically sound (aka cheap) semi-homemade-high quality products & routine!!!

I'm so happy for you! That mix of Ayurvedic, Mega-Tek, Honeyquat, SAA, etc and your routine must be the perfect blend your hair needs!!!

Now back to the SILK.....I know I just ordered them ...but where are my packages?

All this talk about silkiness & softness & "overwhelmingly fabulous" hair got my eye twitchin' & everything.....I'm sayin'...a junkie needs her fix NOW....

 

[JustKiya]

I think that my fellow armchair scientists would appreciate a link to The Beauty Brain - it's a fabulous website all about the science of beauty.

Here's a link to a question about hydrolyzed proteins... still doesn't REALLY answer the SAA/HSP question, but it's interesting!

 

[Oceanfox]

For a while growing up I wanted to be a pharmacist because I am fascinated by chemicals and formulas. It's so great that we can share this knowledge and like you say not be slaves to the beauty industry.

I soaked my hair with SAA on Saturday before my relaxer. This week the midlengths and ends of my hair have never been so soft (although my new growth is severely underprocessed). I'm considering dousing my hair like this again on a non relaxer day if I can tolerate the fishy smell for another hour!

Karen

 

[JustKiya]

Okay - I got a response from Angie at the Herbarie (the place that sold both SAA and HSP), and this is what she says about the difference.

Solu-Silk SF is silk amino acid and has a lower molecular weight. LiproSilk (their HSP - kiya) has some lipophilic characteristics and has a higher molecular weight. Both of these are film formers and are good for hair care. LiproSilk has some incompatibility issues and that may be an issue in some formulations.
Solu-Silk SF is completely water soluble and seems to be compatible with
most other ingredients. Both are good products.

So, it sounds like another benefit of SAA is that it will mix smoothly with everything, while the HSP might not. I'm going tp email her back to ask details about the incompatibility issues with HSP.

 

[Fine 4s]

Okay - I got a response from Angie at the Herbarie (the place that sold both SAA and HSP), and this is what she says about the difference.



So, it sounds like another benefit of SAA is that it will mix smoothly with everything, while the HSP might not. I'm going tp email her back to ask details about the incompatibility issues with HSP.

Good stuff, good stuff

 

[Carolina18]

*thinks*

I can definitely say that when I started adding SAA to my spritz, my hair felt silkier and softer OVERNIGHT. I orginally got on the SAA thing, because my precious, my love, Elasta QP Intense has it in there, and no conditioner has ever made my hair feel like THAT. But! I started using the SAA AND honeyquat at the same time - so I can't say for CERTAIN that it wasn't just the honeyquat upping the moisture in my head.

Is your hair protein sensitive at all? I've ordered some SAA too and was wondering whether I can use it liberally or whether I have to be careful of protein overload. My hair doesn't really handle proteins very well, and seems to better tolerate proteins from natural foods like yoghurt.

 

[JustKiya]

Is your hair protein sensitive at all? I've ordered some SAA too and was wondering whether I can use it liberally or whether I have to be careful of protein overload. My hair doesn't really handle proteins very well, and seems to better tolerate proteins from natural foods like yoghurt.

My hair is very protein sensitive, actually. The ONLY protein I use in my hair now is all natural (yogurt/coconut milk/buttermilk), and I'm kinda nervous about trying egg, as I think that would be too MUCH protein. I asked about the SAA, and most folks agreed it was a mild protein and a powerful moisturizer, so I figured my hair would dig it.
And it has, and I'm pretty liberal with it - though, everything I use SAA in, I also put Honeyquat in - so that might be mitigating any protein overload issues I might be bringing on myself....

 

[JustKiya]

So, it sounds like another benefit of SAA is that it will mix smoothly with everything, while the HSP might not. I'm going tp email her back to ask details about the incompatibility issues with HSP.

I've just noticed over the years of using both products that LiproSilk can
disrupt some formulations. You may want to purchase a small amount of both
to see which you like best and which works best in your formula.

*shrug* No more detail than that.

 

[Carolina18]

My hair is very protein sensitive, actually. The ONLY protein I use in my hair now is all natural (yogurt/coconut milk/buttermilk), and I'm kinda nervous about trying egg, as I think that would be too MUCH protein. I asked about the SAA, and most folks agreed it was a mild protein and a powerful moisturizer, so I figured my hair would dig it.
And it has, and I'm pretty liberal with it - though, everything I use SAA in, I also put Honeyquat in - so that might be mitigating any protein overload issues I might be bringing on myself....

Ah ok, that makes sense. Thanks

 

[AKA-Tude]

BUMPING-

I was wondering if I could use SAA for DCing,

but it doesn't matter-

I LUV SAA!!!

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

whew I feel like a MAD scientist..I better be tripping over my napps this time next year..all this hard work!

 

[Mleah]

Deserves a bump

 

[mamaore]

anyone stil using SAA in their DC?

 

[Nix08]

mamaore I do...I mix it in with my aloe vera gel.

 

[Supergirl]

just want to add:

Quaternium 79 Hydrolyzed Silk Protein is different than Hydrolyzed Silk Proten