I Think I Might Be High Porosity...you Tell Me

[ThursdayGirl]

Hi Ladies,

Not completely frustrated, but getting there. I’m in the market for some new products. I want my hair to feel soft again. I want a touchable twist-out. Does this sound like high porosity hair?

My hair is fine, with high density and small curls (pencil eraser to pin spring, most are somewhere in the middle).

1. When it is rainy outside my hair frizzes up, unless I have a lot of oil/some kind of butter on it.

2. Tangles reasonably easily when loose and curly. Especially on wash day.

3. Feels dry most of the time - unless I air dry. This is even the day after I have washed it. If I air dry, it feels good for 2 days then feels dry again.

4. Conditioners tend to sit on my hair - even if I sit under the dryer.

5. When I spritz my hair to pre-poo, it feels wet with half a minute to a minute. Especially after working in Aussie moist.

————————
Typical wash: wet hair with water and finger detangle with Aussie 3 min miracle; braid and wash in braids.

Shampoo with a light clarifying shampoo followed by moisturizing shampoo (getting ready to drop this and try clay)

Conditioner varies, but I sit under dryer for 30-40 mins (tried Mielle mint and babassu, apb ultramoisturizing conditioner; Shea moisture deep conditioner many types Manuka honey, deep treatment, etc; influance; mane choice heavenly halo mask [this one penetrated some-Yay]

Apply : Cantu leave-in + cocoa butter. Blow dry until damp, not wet and apply obia curling custard. Twist. Go to bed. Finish drying in am for a twist out.

Minimal manipulation for 2-3 weeks and wash again.

—————————-
Is it high porosity? If so can you recommend some youtube people to watch? Products? Help a sister out.

If it doesn’t sound like high porosity... ugh, I’m lost.

 

[Nightingale]

My opinion is in blue. I’m low porosity, but can’t speak for every low po person since even with the same porosity every head is different.



My hair is fine, with high density and small curls (pencil eraser to pin spring, most are somewhere in the middle).

1. When it is rainy outside my hair frizzes up, unless I have a lot of oil/some kind of butter on it. This could be a sign of high porosity, humectants in your products causing frizz (Cantu and Obia contain glycerin), or not using a strong hold styler (Obia isnt strong hold. Also, using a butter before application could weaken or completely eliminate the hold it does have).

2. Tangles reasonably easily when loose and curly. Especially on wash day. Could be your curl pattern or being high po. Tightly curled hair is prone to tangling when worn loose and curly. But I’ve read that raised cuticles on high po hair can cause excessive tangling too.

3. Feels dry most of the time - unless I air dry. This is even the day after I have washed it. If I air dry, it feels good for 2 days then feels dry again. This could be because you’re high porosity or because your current products don’t suit your hair. As a low po, my hair can retain moisture for a couple weeks if I’ve used a penetrating DC with heat. If I use the wrong conditioner and/or don’t use heat, my hair doesn’t actually get conditioned and feels dry within a couple days. I also don’t blow dry. My hair always feels dry after blow drying.

4. Conditioners tend to sit on my hair - even if I sit under the dryer. cThis is a low po trait assuming you’re conditioning clean, shampooed hair and using a penetrating conditioner.

5. When I spritz my hair to pre-poo, it feels wet with half a minute to a minute. Especially after working in Aussie moist. I read this as: your hair feels wet within half a minute to a minute when spritzing with water, after you’ve already applied Aussie. If I got that right, I’m not sure it is helpful enough to guess porosity. 30-60 seconds could be considered a long time when trying to wet a small section of hair. But the Aussie 3 minute has silicone and that could be slowing the absorption of water, not your porosity. So could product build up since this is your prepoo step. If it takes only that amount of time to wet your whole head, I’d lean more toward you being high po.

————————
Typical wash: wet hair with water and finger detangle with Aussie 3 min miracle; braid and wash in braids.

Shampoo with a light clarifying shampoo followed by moisturizing shampoo (getting ready to drop this and try clay)

Conditioner varies, but I sit under dryer for 30-40 mins (tried Mielle mint and babassu, apb ultramoisturizing conditioner; Shea moisture deep conditioner many types Manuka honey, deep treatment, etc; influance; mane choice heavenly halo mask [this one penetrated some-Yay]

Apply : Cantu leave-in + cocoa butter. Blow dry until damp, not wet and apply obia curling custard. Twist. Go to bed. Finish drying in am for a twist out.

Minimal manipulation for 2-3 weeks and wash again.


I don’t have a definite answer for what your porosity is. As I mentioned above, others factors than porosity could be contributing to your hair’s behavior. One factor I didn’t mention is hard water. If you have hard water and don’t chelate regularly, mineral build up from the water could be blocking the absorption of your conditioner and making your hair dry.

To start, if you have hard water, I’d suggest using a chelating shampoo then trying Heavenly Halo again to see if it absorbs better. I’d also suggest switching to glycerin free leave ins and stylers to avoid frizz when it rains or humidity is high. Strong hold gel is an option too, but I prefer to skip gel when wearing twists. My last suggestion would be to cut out blow drying altogether. It dehydrates your hair.

I hope this helps.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

My opinion is in blue. I’m low porosity, but can’t speak for every low po person since even with the same porosity every head is different.



My hair is fine, with high density and small curls (pencil eraser to pin spring, most are somewhere in the middle).

1. When it is rainy outside my hair frizzes up, unless I have a lot of oil/some kind of butter on it. This could be a sign of high porosity, humectants in your products causing frizz (Cantu and Obia contain glycerin), or not using a strong hold styler (Obia isnt strong hold. Also, using a butter before application could weaken or completely eliminate the hold it does have).

2. Tangles reasonably easily when loose and curly. Especially on wash day. Could be your curl pattern or being high po. Tightly curled hair is prone to tangling when worn loose and curly. But I’ve read that raised cuticles on high po hair can cause excessive tangling too.

3. Feels dry most of the time - unless I air dry. This is even the day after I have washed it. If I air dry, it feels good for 2 days then feels dry again. This could be because you’re high porosity or because your current products don’t suit your hair. As a low po, my hair can retain moisture for a couple weeks if I’ve used a penetrating DC with heat. If I use the wrong conditioner and/or don’t use heat, my hair doesn’t actually get conditioned and feels dry within a couple days. I also don’t blow dry. My hair always feels dry after blow drying.

4. Conditioners tend to sit on my hair - even if I sit under the dryer. cThis is a low po trait assuming you’re conditioning clean, shampooed hair and using a penetrating conditioner.

5. When I spritz my hair to pre-poo, it feels wet with half a minute to a minute. Especially after working in Aussie moist. I read this as: your hair feels wet within half a minute to a minute when spritzing with water, after you’ve already applied Aussie. If I got that right, I’m not sure it is helpful enough to guess porosity. 30-60 seconds could be considered a long time when trying to wet a small section of hair. But the Aussie 3 minute has silicone and that could be slowing the absorption of water, not your porosity. So could product build up since this is your prepoo step. If it takes only that amount of time to wet your whole head, I’d lean more toward you being high po.

————————
Typical wash: wet hair with water and finger detangle with Aussie 3 min miracle; braid and wash in braids.

Shampoo with a light clarifying shampoo followed by moisturizing shampoo (getting ready to drop this and try clay)

Conditioner varies, but I sit under dryer for 30-40 mins (tried Mielle mint and babassu, apb ultramoisturizing conditioner; Shea moisture deep conditioner many types Manuka honey, deep treatment, etc; influance; mane choice heavenly halo mask [this one penetrated some-Yay]

Apply : Cantu leave-in + cocoa butter. Blow dry until damp, not wet and apply obia curling custard. Twist. Go to bed. Finish drying in am for a twist out.

Minimal manipulation for 2-3 weeks and wash again.


I don’t have a definite answer for what your porosity is. As I mentioned above, others factors than porosity could be contributing to your hair’s behavior. One factor I didn’t mention is hard water. If you have hard water and don’t chelate regularly, mineral build up from the water could be blocking the absorption of your conditioner and making your hair dry.

To start, if you have hard water, I’d suggest using a chelating shampoo then trying Heavenly Halo again to see if it absorbs better. I’d also suggest switching to glycerin free leave ins and stylers to avoid frizz when it rains or humidity is high. Strong hold gel is an option too, but I prefer to skip gel when wearing twists. My last suggestion would be to cut out blow drying altogether. It dehydrates your hair.

I hope this helps.

Thank you!

Hmmmm these are really great thoughts. I will do some post stalking to see if I can get a clue as to what conditioners and stylers to try.

What products does your hair like?

I will look into a chelating shampoo. I have had really bad experiences with shampoo tangling my hair over the last months, so much so that I am “afraid” to try new ones, but I will look for recommendations. The shampoo that I am using now came from my stylist and is one of the few that didn’t dry me out immediately, but my hair feels coated when wet and slightly dry after washing, so it’s not my HG by a long shot. Does clay chelate?

 

[PlanetCybertron]

Hmm...

I’d agree with the above person as well.

Knock the blow dryer all together.

For your shampooing, are you putting it throughout your hair all the way to the ends? Do you dilute it?

It helps to dilute your shampoo and only focus on the scalp, from the ears up.

Shampooing after the condition detangling seems okay, but focus on the scalp only, since it can lift up the conditioner, and go straight to uplifting your sebum and any oils that have been helping to seal your hair.

I have porous hair too, and surprisingly some products will only sit on top of my hair too. I think it comes down to the quality of the conditioner or deep treatment. It helps also, to figure out how your products react with each other.

Referencing what I said a moment ago...Most conditioners with behentrimonium methosulfate provide instant slip, and change the surface (your hair), into a positively charged area in a matter of 20 seconds or less. Conditioners whose main ingredients are cocamide based (more on the surfactant side), glycerin based, stearyl based, cetyl based, etc, or chloride based feel funny on my hair as well. It seems as though the ion distribution isn’t happening quick enough or barely at all, so things formulated with those feel like they’re just sitting there. The challenge is finding derivatives with bases that lend either heavily charge positive ions to the hair, or deliver a fatty acid chain small enough to help repair the hair shaft.

If you’ve ever noticed why your hair feels more dry or uplifted after a shampoo it’s due to the negative charge distruibuted by the shampoo, which is why very positively charged conditioners feel amazing when applied after the shampoo. If you’re wanting to go the clay route, just match it the best you can with something that can balance out or overcompensate the negative charge that clay has.


I’m not sure where you live, but concerning frizz, and humectants, if the moisture content in your hair is higher than the moisture content around you, the moisture will disperse towards the surrounding environment leaving your hair feeling dry. When I say moisture content I mean humidity percentage. It can be raining where you live, but your humidity percentage can still be low. I live directly near the Gulf, and the humidity percentage can be well into 80+%, so anything concerning glycerine or humectants is fine because moisture is just transferring back and forth from my head to the surrounding environment. If that makes any sense.

High porosity isn’t that big of a deal in my mind. I think your hair is perfectly fine, you just have to probably spend more time product searching and figuring out which product to use first, second, last, etc. and how they react with one another.

Whether high or low porosity, you’re mostly just finding products or ingredients that fit whatever surface charge your hair currently has, or bring it up to, or around a certain Ph level, and Ph is just Percent Hydrogen, which is also measuring, to an extent, the hygrogen or hydroxide charge, or lacktherof.

Edit: I noticed you’re shampooing your hair twice. I know shampoos can moisturizing, but again that’s dependent on what it’s formulated with. I’d suggest a shampoo that has cocamides in it (plant derivative of coconut oil), or has that as one of the main ingredients, and dilute it even further. It’s about the most gentle surfactant I’ve read up on. And take one of your shampoos out, and only do the roots and shampoo once.

So again, I think you might just have to change some products around. Sorry for the chemistry lesson lol.

Hope some of this helps. I’m not a scientist or anything I just read a lot.

 

[faithVA]

Hi Ladies,

Not completely frustrated, but getting there. I’m in the market for some new products. I want my hair to feel soft again. I want a touchable twist-out. Does this sound like high porosity hair?

My hair is fine, with high density and small curls (pencil eraser to pin spring, most are somewhere in the middle).

1. When it is rainy outside my hair frizzes up, unless I have a lot of oil/some kind of butter on it.

2. Tangles reasonably easily when loose and curly. Especially on wash day.

3. Feels dry most of the time - unless I air dry. This is even the day after I have washed it. If I air dry, it feels good for 2 days then feels dry again.

4. Conditioners tend to sit on my hair - even if I sit under the dryer.

5. When I spritz my hair to pre-poo, it feels wet with half a minute to a minute. Especially after working in Aussie moist.

————————
Typical wash: wet hair with water and finger detangle with Aussie 3 min miracle; braid and wash in braids.

Shampoo with a light clarifying shampoo followed by moisturizing shampoo (getting ready to drop this and try clay)

Conditioner varies, but I sit under dryer for 30-40 mins (tried Mielle mint and babassu, apb ultramoisturizing conditioner; Shea moisture deep conditioner many types Manuka honey, deep treatment, etc; influance; mane choice heavenly halo mask [this one penetrated some-Yay]

Apply : Cantu leave-in + cocoa butter. Blow dry until damp, not wet and apply obia curling custard. Twist. Go to bed. Finish drying in am for a twist out.

Minimal manipulation for 2-3 weeks and wash again.

—————————-
Is it high porosity? If so can you recommend some youtube people to watch? Products? Help a sister out.

If it doesn’t sound like high porosity... ugh, I’m lost.

I think you should eliminate all products with silicone first, clarify and then do your regimen over and see what your results are.

That Aussie moist could be throwing everything off. You could be high p.o. or lo p.o. but I think using silicone makes it hard to tell.

 

[Nightingale]

Thank you!

Hmmmm these are really great thoughts. I will do some post stalking to see if I can get a clue as to what conditioners and stylers to try.

What products does your hair like?

I will look into a chelating shampoo. I have had really bad experiences with shampoo tangling my hair over the last months, so much so that I am “afraid” to try new ones, but I will look for recommendations. The shampoo that I am using now came from my stylist and is one of the few that didn’t dry me out immediately, but my hair feels coated when wet and slightly dry after washing, so it’s not my HG by a long shot. Does clay chelate?

• Check your city's website for their water test. If the city water tested hard, then purchase a chelating shampoo. I use Ion Hard Water from Sally's. Redken Cleansing Cream is a favorite for some ladies here too. Clay doesnt chelate.
• If your wet, shampooed hair feels coated after using that light clarifying shampoo, then it isn't doing its job and you may still have product buildup. Cocoa butter, silicone, your leave in and styler, and whatever moisturizer you use is a lot to cut through.
• Also, clarifying/chelating shampoos will dry your hair out some. Its the nature of the product, IMO. I dilute my chelating shampoo in an applicator bottle to reduce the harshness (half an ounce to 1 ounce of shampoo with 7 ounces of water) and use it every wash day. My hair always feels a little dry after use, but I have a great DC to bring back the moisture.
• Your products may not be washing out fully because you wash in braids. To make sure everything rinses clean: unbraid the section, massage the lather down your strands with one hand while holding the length taut with the other, to avoid tangling. Rinse, then braid back up.
• @PlanetCybertron is right about using one shampoo. I think using both exacerbates your dryness.

 

[Nightingale]

I think you should eliminate all products with silicone first, clarify and then do your regimen over and see what your results are.

That Aussie moist could be throwing everything off. You could be high p.o. or lo p.o. but I think using silicone makes it hard to tell.

I agree with this. I'd also say to take out the cocoa butter since it is a heavy butter that could affect your results. You can bring it back in once you determine the results of your shampoo, DC, leave ins, and styler.

Also, don't go crazy buying all new products yet. Try what you have again after using a better clarifier or chelator, then go from there.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

• Check your city's website for their water test. If the city water tested hard, then purchase a chelating shampoo. I use Ion Hard Water from Sally's. Redken Cleansing Cream is a favorite for some ladies here too.
• If your wet, shampooed hair feels coated after using that light clarifying shampoo, then it isn't doing its job and you may still have product buildup. Cocoa butter, silicone, your leave in and styler, and whatever moisturizer you use is a lot to cut through.
• Also, clarifying/chelating shampoos will dry your hair out some. Its the nature of the product, IMO. I dilute my chelating shampoo in an applicator bottle to reduce the harshness (half an ounce to 1 ounce of shampoo with 7 ounces of water) and use it every wash day. My hair always feels a little dry, but I use a great DC bring back the moisture.
• Your products may not be washing out fully because you wash in braids. To make sure everything rinses clean: unbraid the section, massage the lather down your strands with one hand while holding the length taut with the other, to avoid tangling. Rinse, then braid back up.

Thank you for this. This is what I do. I wash my scalp with my shampoo, then unbraid and squeeze shampoo through the length of my hair 1-2 times and rinse thoroughly. I think our water is slightly hard, but I have definitely had worse. I will check into the shampoo and our city water test.

I did an experiment yesterday (wash day). Where I tried adding care free curl to my mix (this was before reading these posts). I also just sat under the dryer instead of elongating my hair with the blow dryer before twisting. Hair feels very good today - a lot less dry than usual. We shall see how it feels in a couple of days, that is the test.

What conditioner do you like? I always DC, but until the Mane choice, never felt like it penetrated.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

Hmm...

I’d agree with the above person as well.

Knock the blow dryer all together.

For your shampooing, are you putting it throughout your hair all the way to the ends? Do you dilute it?

It helps to dilute your shampoo and only focus on the scalp, from the ears up.

Shampooing after the condition detangling seems okay, but focus on the scalp only, since it can lift up the conditioner, and go straight to uplifting your sebum and any oils that have been helping to seal your hair.

I have porous hair too, and surprisingly some products will only sit on top of my hair too. I think it comes down to the quality of the conditioner or deep treatment. It helps also, to figure out how your products react with each other.

Referencing what I said a moment ago...Most conditioners with behentrimonium methosulfate provide instant slip, and change the surface (your hair), into a positively charged area in a matter of 20 seconds or less. Conditioners whose main ingredients are cocamide based (more on the surfactant side), glycerin based, stearyl based, cetyl based, etc, or chloride based feel funny on my hair as well. It seems as though the ion distribution isn’t happening quick enough or barely at all, so things formulated with those feel like they’re just sitting there. The challenge is finding derivatives with bases that lend either heavily charge positive ions to the hair, or deliver a fatty acid chain small enough to help repair the hair shaft.

If you’ve ever noticed why your hair feels more dry or uplifted after a shampoo it’s due to the negative charge distruibuted by the shampoo, which is why very positively charged conditioners feel amazing when applied after the shampoo. If you’re wanting to go the clay route, just match it the best you can with something that can balance out or overcompensate the negative charge that clay has.


I’m not sure where you live, but concerning frizz, and humectants, if the moisture content in your hair is higher than the moisture content around you, the moisture will disperse towards the surrounding environment leaving your hair feeling dry. When I say moisture content I mean humidity percentage. It can be raining where you live, but your humidity percentage can still be low. I live directly near the Gulf, and the humidity percentage can be well into 80+%, so anything concerning glycerine or humectants is fine because moisture is just transferring back and forth from my head to the surrounding environment. If that makes any sense.

High porosity isn’t that big of a deal in my mind. I think your hair is perfectly fine, you just have to probably spend more time product searching and figuring out which product to use first, second, last, etc. and how they react with one another.

Whether high or low porosity, you’re mostly just finding products or ingredients that fit whatever surface charge your hair currently has, or bring it up to, or around a certain Ph level, and Ph is just Percent Hydrogen, which is also measuring, to an extent, the hygrogen or hydroxide charge, or lacktherof.

Edit: I noticed you’re shampooing your hair twice. I know shampoos can moisturizing, but again that’s dependent on what it’s formulated with. I’d suggest a shampoo that has cocamides in it (plant derivative of coconut oil), or has that as one of the main ingredients, and dilute it even further. It’s about the most gentle surfactant I’ve read up on. And take one of your shampoos out, and only do the roots and shampoo once.

So again, I think you might just have to change some products around. Sorry for the chemistry lesson lol.

Hope some of this helps. I’m not a scientist or anything I just read a lot.

I am a scientist, lol. You are speaking my language . I will sit down with this info when I have my conditioners with me. Thanks!

 

[ThursdayGirl]

I agree with this. I'd also say to take out the cocoa butter since it is a heavy butter that could affect your results. You can bring it back in once you determine the results of your shampoo, DC, leave ins, and styler.

Also, don't go crazy buying all new products yet. Try what you have again after using a better clarifier or chelator, then go from there.

Ok. Also, I what do you think of Cantu as a leave-in?

 

[PlanetCybertron]

I am a scientist, lol. You are speaking my language . I will sit down with this info when I have my conditioners with me. Thanks!

That’s even better!

 

[Nightingale]

Ok. Also, I what do you think of Cantu as a leave-in?

My hair is sensitive to glycerin, so I don't use Cantu or any other leave ins, moisturizers, or stylers with glycerin.

As far as DCs, I have not found a ready made, holy grail product. My hair is so low porosity that most "deep" conditioners don't penetrate because of their heavier,non penetrating ingredients (some butters, certain oils, higher amounts of emulsifiers, etc). Instead of purchasing a deep conditioner, I buy a silicone free rinse out conditioner/cowash with cetrimonium chloride and/or low amounts of BTMS. Something that is designed to rinse clean. I mix in a blend of penetrating oils (frac. coconut, avocado, and olive oil work for me) and a little slippery tea to aid in detangling. My tea is made from boiling marshmallow root, slippery elm, and flaxseeds. It doesn't take long to mix up and the results are fabulous for me. My current favorite conditioner to modify is Eden BodyWorks Cleansing Cowash.

 

[NaturalEnigma]

Also maybe you can invest in a shower filter head. My apartment has hard water. When I first moved in my hair was so dry and my acne seemed very resistant to all the treatment, masks, and cremes I was using. I was also breaking out on my chest and back. I brought a shower filter head by Culligan on Amazon for around $30 and my hair literally went from night to day. My hair was shinier, softer and more moisturized. My acne on my chest cleared up and my face cleared up too. My pores got smaller. Using chelating shampoos all the time can be drying I would recommend a shower filter to treat the source.

 

[Nightingale]

@ThursdayGirl Check out the blogs below. They discuss the science of hair care. They are not updated regularly, but the information is still really good.

http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/

 

[ThursdayGirl]

@ThursdayGirl Check out the blogs below. They discuss the science of hair care. They are not updated regularly, but the information is still really good.

http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com

http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/

Oooh these are good. I have enjoyed Naturalhaven‘s microscope experiments in the past, could be time to revisit. Really like science-yhairblog. Thanks!

 

[ThursdayGirl]

Also maybe you can invest in a shower filter head. My apartment has hard water. When I first moved in my hair was so dry and my acne seemed very resistant to all the treatment, masks, and cremes I was using. I was also breaking out on my chest and back. I brought a shower filter head by Culligan on Amazon for around $30 and my hair literally went from night to day. My hair was shinier, softer and more moisturized. My acne on my chest cleared up and my face cleared up too. My pores got smaller. Using chelating shampoos all the time can be drying I would recommend a shower filter to treat the source.

I will look into this.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

My hair is sensitive to glycerin, so I don't use Cantu or any other leave ins, moisturizers, or stylers with glycerin.

As far as DCs, I have not found a ready made, holy grail product. My hair is so low porosity that most "deep" conditioners don't penetrate because of their heavier,non penetrating ingredients (some butters, certain oils, higher amounts of emulsifiers, etc). Instead of purchasing a deep conditioner, I buy a silicone free rinse out conditioner/cowash with cetrimonium chloride and/or low amounts of BTMS. Something that is designed to rinse clean. I mix in a blend of penetrating oils (frac. coconut, avocado, and olive oil work for me) and a little slippery tea to aid in detangling. My tea is made from boiling marshmallow root, slippery elm, and flaxseeds. It doesn't take long to mix up and the results are fabulous for me. My current favorite conditioner to modify is Eden BodyWorks Cleansing Cowash.

This is interesting. I tried TJ Tee tree tingle shampoo, back when I was thinking about cowashing more frequently and did not feel my hair soften. Maybe I should revisit with some additives. Thank you for the idea!

 

[Saludable84]

I would definitely ditch silicones and the Aussie moist. The two days of moisture lead me to believe you could be normal to low, since LoPo can get 3+ days of moisture, but that varies. Some of the things you said are just characteristics of natural hair

I would definitely take the advice previously given to make a better assessment.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

I would definitely ditch silicones and the Aussie moist. The two days of moisture lead me to believe you could be normal to low, since LoPo can get 3+ days of moisture, but that varies. Some of the things you said are just characteristics of natural hair

I would definitely take the advice previously given to make a better assessment.

I will try it. I’m a little nervous about it because Aussie gives me slip and keeps the shampoo from drying my hair out toooooo much. When my hair is dry, it comes out in clumps on wash day. Handfuls of long hair (despite being gentle) . With Aussie I get much less of that. I will try the suggestions though.


————////———-
Years ago, I was a close to APL natural, but I had a stylist I trusted. I left maintenance to her. I was using mostly Mizani shampoo and conditioner and kept a press. If I had the patience and right products, maybe I could’ve been BSL, who knows.

The lady that I have now, while she is nice - most of what she says is contrary to the stuff I have learned here on the board. Since being in her chair for the last couple of years (maybe a little less) I went up to NL and my hair has grown back to SL in the back. Sides are shorter. I feel like it could be longer, if I had not listened to her. I lost thickness trying different shampoos that she recommended. Only recently did she help me find a better shampoo, than the one that was knotting my hair so badly and she wants me to wash my hair loose. I know that is a recipe for tangles. She means well, but nobody in her shop has longer than SL natural hair.

I am trying to take back my hair care - simplify my routine and get my hair retaining length again and thickness.

I know, more than you asked. Sorry, just needed to get that off of my chest.

 

[newgrowth15]

@ThursdayGirl, everyone above has given you great advice, but you have got to find what works for your hair. For me, less is more. I suffered a setback about 18 months ago as a result of stress and other issues. My hair was falling out (not breakage -- but at the root) by the handful. Once I was able to get my life situation under control, I then began to go to work on my hair. I revisited the commercial products I was using and started checking ingredients. I noticed that several of the conditioners I was using changed their formulations and started adding sodium hydroxide (same stuff in relaxers), so I switched to using natural products. I still use some commercial products, but only a few as I am learning which ones are okay for my hair.

Needless to say, my hair is on the mend and growing back and thickening up again.

• I use 1 ounce of apple cider vinegar (the clear kind without the "mother" so I don't wind up with bits of that stuff in my hair) to 3 ounces of water to clean my scalp once a month.
  
• I use fermented rice water rinses once a month to restore the lost vitamins and minerals that my hair needs (I should do this more frequently, since it does make my hair feel soft and strong at the same time).
• I use CVS brand Therapeutic Dandruff Shampoo on an as needed basis (not very often) to cleanse my scalp.
• I use V05 Clarifying Shampoo (diluted about 1/2 tsp of shampoo in 6 ounces of water in a nozzle bottle so that I can direct it straight to my scalp) on an as needed basis (about once every 2 or 3 months). This is also good for removing product build-up.
  
• I use V05 Clarifying Vanilla Mint Tea Conditioner or Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Conditioner. I put a plastic shower cap on and complete my shower, then I rinse the conditioner out immediately. (I no longer do deep conditioning treatments with commercial products. I only use natural products for deep treatments and that is on an as needed basis)
  
• I use olive oil on my wet hair to lock in moisture.
• I use my own special shea butter creme whip to keep my hair moisturized for up to a week at a time.
• I let my hair air dry in braids, twists or buns. (I avoid the blow dryer as much as possible, but on the rare occasions I need to use it, I use the cool setting and the tension method where I hold my ends and only semi-dry the length of my hair and scalp. I do not blow dry the ends of my hair.
• I have found that my hair grows faster and I lose less of it when I wear it straightened. I was waist length, but I trimmed about an inch off, just last week.
• I also use Jamaican Black Castor Oil, Olive Oil and Argan Oil mixed together as a massage oil when I do the Inversion Method.

Sorry to be so long winded, but when I was going through my setback, the people who were the most detailed, helped me to get back on track. I hope this helps you on your journey.

ETA: The rice water stopped the hair fall the same day I used it. Black tea does the same thing for my hair as well.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

@ThursdayGirl, everyone above has given you great advice, but you have got to find what works for your hair. For me, less is more. I suffered a setback about 18 months ago as a result of stress and other issues. My hair was falling out (not breakage -- but at the root) by the handful. Once I was able to get my life situation under control, I then began to go to work on my hair. I revisited the commercial products I was using and started checking ingredients. I noticed that several of the conditioners I was using changed their formulations and started adding sodium hydroxide (same stuff in relaxers), so I switched to using natural products. I still use some commercial products, but only a few as I am learning which ones are okay for my hair.

Needless to say, my hair is on the mend and growing back and thickening up again.

• I use 1 ounce of apple cider vinegar (the clear kind without the "mother" so I don't wind up with bits of that stuff in my hair) to 3 ounces of water to clean my scalp once a month.
  
• I use fermented rice water rinses once a month to restore the lost vitamins and minerals that my hair needs (I should do this more frequently, since it does make my hair feel soft and strong at the same time).
• I use CVS brand Therapeutic Dandruff Shampoo on an as needed basis (not very often) to cleanse my scalp.
• I use V05 Clarifying Shampoo (diluted about 1/2 tsp of shampoo in 6 ounces of water in a nozzle bottle so that I can direct it straight to my scalp) on an as needed basis (about once every 2 or 3 months). This is also good for removing product build-up.
  
• I use V05 Clarifying Vanilla Mint Tea Conditioner or Aussie 3 Minute Miracle Conditioner. I put a plastic shower cap on and complete my shower, then I rinse the conditioner out immediately. (I no longer do deep conditioning treatments with commercial products. I only use natural products for deep treatments and that is on an as needed basis)
  
• I use olive oil on my wet hair to lock in moisture.
• I use my own special shea butter creme whip to keep my hair moisturized for up to a week at a time.
• I let my hair air dry in braids, twists or buns. (I avoid the blow dryer as much as possible, but on the rare occasions I need to use it, I use the cool setting and the tension method where I hold my ends and only semi-dry the length of my hair and scalp. I do not blow dry the ends of my hair.
• I have found that my hair grows faster and I lose less of it when I wear it straightened. I was waist length, but I trimmed about an inch off, just last week.
• I also use Jamaican Black Castor Oil, Olive Oil and Argan Oil mixed together as a massage oil when I do the Inversion Method.

Sorry to be so long winded, but when I was going through my setback, the people who were the most detailed, helped me to get back on track. I hope this helps you on your journey.

ETA: The rice water stopped the hair fall the same day I used it. Black tea does the same thing for my hair as well.

Thank you for taking the time to do this! I’m glad to hear that things are turning around for you. What is fermented rice water? Do you make it yourself?

 

[newgrowth15]

Thank you for taking the time to do this! I’m glad to hear that things are turning around for you. What is fermented rice water? Do you make it yourself?

There are several Youtubers who have videos about fermented rice water. The women of the Yao tribe in China are known to have hair that is 6 feet or longer in length and much of their growth is attributed to rice water.

While I don't want 6 feet of hair, I do like the benefits of rice water. The method I use to make it is as follows:

1-2 Tablespoons of white rice. You may see that most Youtubers say to rinse the rice before making the treatment. (I live in the USA, so that rice has already been cleaned and processed. I don't rinse mine so that I can keep the added vitamins and minerals for my hair and scalp.)

1-2 cups of distilled water. I use room temperature water, but some people boil the water or boil the water with the rice in it. The choice is yours. If you boil it, you won't have to wait. You can use it as soon as the water cools down enough to pour it over your scalp and hair.

Mix and let this sit out for 12 to 24 hours. As the water sits, the rice will begin to ferment. The longer it sits, the more fermented it becomes. Strain and pour or spray this water over your hair as many times as you want and let it sit on your hair for approximately 30 minutes under a plastic cap. I put my conditioner directly on top of the rice water and rinse them out together.

I make one batch at a time on an as needed basis.

WARNING: This stuff stinks. I add several drops of lavender essential oil to mine right before using it. I like the two bowl method as shown in this video.

 

[Saludable84]

————————
Typical wash: wet hair with water and finger detangle with Aussie 3 min miracle; braid and wash in braids.

Shampoo with a light clarifying shampoo followed by moisturizing shampoo (getting ready to drop this and try clay)

Conditioner varies, but I sit under dryer for 30-40 mins (tried Mielle mint and babassu, apb ultramoisturizing conditioner; Shea moisture deep conditioner many types Manuka honey, deep treatment, etc; influance; mane choice heavenly halo mask [this one penetrated some-Yay]

Apply : Cantu leave-in + cocoa butter. Blow dry until damp, not wet and apply obia curling custard. Twist. Go to bed. Finish drying in am for a twist out.

Minimal manipulation for 2-3 weeks and wash again.

I will try it. I’m a little nervous about it because Aussie gives me slip and keeps the shampoo from drying my hair out toooooo much. When my hair is dry, it comes out in clumps on wash day. Handfuls of long hair (despite being gentle) . With Aussie I get much less of that. I will try the suggestions though.


————////———-
Years ago, I was a close to APL natural, but I had a stylist I trusted. I left maintenance to her. I was using mostly Mizani shampoo and conditioner and kept a press. If I had the patience and right products, maybe I could’ve been BSL, who knows.

The lady that I have now, while she is nice - most of what she says is contrary to the stuff I have learned here on the board. Since being in her chair for the last couple of years (maybe a little less) I went up to NL and my hair has grown back to SL in the back. Sides are shorter. I feel like it could be longer, if I had not listened to her. I lost thickness trying different shampoos that she recommended. Only recently did she help me find a better shampoo, than the one that was knotting my hair so badly and she wants me to wash my hair loose. I know that is a recipe for tangles. She means well, but nobody in her shop has longer than SL natural hair.

I am trying to take back my hair care - simplify my routine and get my hair retaining length again and thickness.

I know, more than you asked. Sorry, just needed to get that off of my chest.

Bolded for emphasis.

First things first: the less you wash and manipulate, the more that will come out on wash day. The amount that is coming out is likely normal based on your habits. Unless your hair is thinning or breaking to the touch, I would not put much thought into it.

You need a conditioner with slip if your shampoo is drying. A drying shampoo will cause tangles. I shampoo with my hair loose, but in sections and as soon as I finish washing, I apply conditioner to that section immediately. I only clarify when needed and when I shampoo (weekly), I only wash once. twice is a recipe for disaster. I make my shampoo now, but it does not cause tangles. Clay gave me tangle-free hair as well.

I always feel like a martyr when I tell people to wash more, because you have to do what works for you, but the longer you take to wash, the more build-up, the more you need to do on wash day, the harder to assess. you may really need to just try a gentler shampoo.

I really dont think you have HiPo hair, but you should give it about 4-6 weeks of a consistent routine to figure it out.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

Bolded for emphasis.

First things first: the less you wash and manipulate, the more that will come out on wash day. The amount that is coming out is likely normal based on your habits. Unless your hair is thinning or breaking to the touch, I would not put much thought into it.

You need a conditioner with slip if your shampoo is drying. A drying shampoo will cause tangles. I shampoo with my hair loose, but in sections and as soon as I finish washing, I apply conditioner to that section immediately. I only clarify when needed and when I shampoo (weekly), I only wash once. twice is a recipe for disaster. I make my shampoo now, but it does not cause tangles. Clay gave me tangle-free hair as well.

I always feel like a martyr when I tell people to wash more, because you have to do what works for you, but the longer you take to wash, the more build-up, the more you need to do on wash day, the harder to assess. you may really need to just try a gentler shampoo.

I really dont think you have HiPo hair, but you should give it about 4-6 weeks of a consistent routine to figure it out.

Could you tell me more about your shampoo, here or PM. You’re right, I do need a lot of slip. Do you have any ideas for a conditioner? I was just telling my sister this morning that if I can get a routine down to where it isn’t such a struggle to wash, I will wash more frequently. I’m not against it and deep down inside, I think in the long run it is probably better for my hair. I just don’t look forward to the struggle of wash day.

For this weekend, I was thinking about washing with a diluted clarifying shampoo in sections to get rid of any buildup as suggested upthread. If I can’t come up with a conditioner, I have the mane choice stuff and some keracare humecto (they probably have cones though).

Next week clay wash?

 

[Saludable84]

Could you tell me more about your shampoo, here or PM. You’re right, I do need a lot of slip. Do you have any ideas for a conditioner? I was just telling my sister this morning that if I can get a routine down to where it isn’t such a struggle to wash, I will wash more frequently. I’m not against it and deep down inside, I think in the long run it is probably better for my hair. I just don’t look forward to the struggle of wash day.

For this weekend, I was thinking about washing with a diluted clarifying shampoo in sections to get rid of any buildup as suggested upthread. If I can’t come up with a conditioner, I have the mane choice stuff and some keracare humecto (they probably have cones though).

Next week clay wash?

Ill PM you before the day is out.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

So it is now Friday and I have learned quite a bit. I'm summarizing here so I won't forget what I have learned and I will check back in periodically in case this thread may help another natural at some point. Before I do, let me say THANK YOU to @Nightingale, @Saludable84, @faithVA, @PlanetCybertron, @newgrowth15, and @NaturalEnigma for chiming in and giving me some things to think about and try. I had no idea where to start and I appreciate you all for your help.

So, my hair is actually softer than usual after a week. Things that I changed at the last wash:

1. I did not blowdry to stretch my hair before doing a twistout. I sat with microfiber towel for a couple of hours to watch a movie instead. Then my hair was damp enough to twist. By the time I was done with the back, some parts of the front were dry.
2. Applied Cantu leave-in, Carefree Curl, and Qhemet's Cocoa butter detangler to hair, topped with OBIA's styler (curl custard) to twist. This was WAY too much product. My hair looked coated wet, but dried beautifully.
3. I used Sweet Almond Oil to take down twists instead of Shea moisture's oil product. I like the Sweet Amond oil because it was a little thicker. It may have contributed to increased moisture. I will keep it.

I learned this week:
1. My water appears to be on the softer side
2. Aussie Moist has a lot of cones in it. Ingredient #3 and #5 are cones. I will use dilute clarifyer to remove any build up when I wash this weekend.
3. My hair responded better to Keracare Humecto than some other conditioners that I have used recently. Cones are low on its ingredients list. I need to check on the other ingredients though.
4. I need to pay more attention to my regimen and get it to the point where I can wash every 1-2 weeks instead of 3-4. More frequent washing may make hair dry out less and be more managable.

Plan for this week's wash:
1. Clarify carefully with dilute Suave clarifying shampoo. (May or may not follow up with Camille Rose Sweet Ginger Shampoo)
2. Condition under dryer. Probably Mane Choice Heavenly Halo Herbal Hair Tonic and Soy Milk Deep Hydrating Mask (gosh this was expensive, but it seemed to penetrate).
3. Add leave-in (not sure what I will use here - still looking for recommendations), Moisturizing creme (with glycerin), and Obia curl custard. Twist.
4. Let twists dry overnight and finish drying under hood drying in the morning. Apply Sweet Amond oil for take down.