Pastors And Monetary Wealth ...

[qtgirl]

My father and I both believe that pastors/preachers should live humbly (sp?) and that includes the amount of money they have, the cars they drive, etc. My mother believes that there is nothing wrong with a Pastor driving a Bentley and having a mansion. My father makes the point that most of the greatest religious leaders to have ever lived (Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, & Ghandi) were men of humble means and any extraneous resources they would use to better the community and their followers.

My question is why as a Man or Woman of God would you want to be in excess of wealth and buy/have frivolous things when you could be using that money to further the message & mission of Christ?

Matthew 19:16-24
16 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18 "Which ones?" the man inquired. Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"
20 "All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

[beverly]

Well I believe that Christ came so that we all may have life more abundantly, as it says in the scriptures. So I don't believe there is anything wrong with pastors driving bentley's or living in a masion. Some people in my church have problems with how much our pastor earns, but he does his job and does it well, and missions to those in need get accomplished. Our pastor has a Ph.D, we have a beautiful church, and all the bills get paid. If he were working in the commercial work environment then he would be earning alot and has the right to enjoy it and spend it as he pleases.

 

[Honeyhips]

My question is why as a Man or Woman of God would you want to be in excess of wealth and buy/have frivolous things when you could be using that money to further the message & mission of Christ?

Why do you assume that they are not? HOw do you know that stuff was not given to them, or they did not get a great deal. Living humbly does not mean you are a better servant for the Lord. I'm convinced if they did live humbly, or a were poor, many people would look at them and say, why should I follow God and you only have a Geo, and I have a Lexus without him. They shouldn't be focused on that, but if they get it, good for them. We have no idea what the favor of God has gotten them. The more you give out, the more you are going to receive.

I don't care how much stuff they have. As long as they aren't robbing God, and the church. I just don't like it when services are always, only about being blessed and getting money and things from God. It is more to the Christian walk than that.

The scripture you provided sounds like it is dealing with someone who had everything, but God, and couldn't understand why he was still unhappy.

 

[qtgirl]

My interpretation of that verse is of a more abundant life by being free from sin, when he refers to "it" he is talking about life and IMO abundancy as in peacefullness not necessarily as material wealth, although I know some use that verse as justification for their wealth.

John 10:9-11 (King James Version)
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Well I believe that Christ came so that we all may have life more abundantly, as it says in the scriptures. So I don't believe there is anything wrong with pastors driving bentley's or living in a masion. Some people in my church have problems with how much our pastor earns, but he does his job and does it well, and missions to those in need get accomplished. Our pastor has a Ph.D, we have a beautiful church, and all the bills get paid. If he were working in the commercial work environment then he would be earning alot and has the right to enjoy it and spend it as he pleases.

 

[qtgirl]

Why do you assume that they are not? HOw do you know that stuff was not given to them, or they did not get a great deal. Living humbly does not mean you are a better servant for the Lord. I'm convinced if they did live humbly, or a were poor, many people would look at them and say, why should I follow God and you only have a Geo, and I have a Lexus without him. They shouldn't be focused on that, but if they get it, good for them. We have no idea what the favor of God has gotten them. The more you give out, the more you are going to receive.

But by living humbly, they would be living more like Christ. Christ was not a rich man, he traveled on foot or donkey most of the time, not in chariots, or on horses. And the jews did not believe he was the Christ because of this, they expected the Christ to be someone like a King or a very wealthy man, which is why they are still waiting on Christ's return. No one could believe that this son of a carpenter was the King.

I don't care how much stuff they have. As long as they aren't robbing God, and the church. I just don't like it when services are always, only about being blessed and getting money and things from God. It is more to the Christian walk than that.

I don't like that as well, I think they do it to get more people to come to church. Too many Christians think that because they are a "faithful" Christian that they will be blessed with wealth. When God says that your reward is in heaven not on Earth, but people forget that.

The scripture you provided sounds like it is dealing with someone who had everything, but God, and couldn't understand why he was still unhappy.

Actually the scripture was about a young man who was doing everything else right, here is the whole scripture.

MATT 19:16-30
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

 

[Poohbear]

A pastor or preacher should be a humble servant who had suffered for the same message of salvation in Jesus Christ.

Micah 3:11 says...
11Her leaders pronounce (V)judgment for a bribe,
Her (W)priests instruct for a price
And her prophets divine for money
Yet they lean on the LORD saying,
"(X)Is not the LORD in our midst?
Calamity will not come upon us."

Micah severly condemned religious leaders who ministered only if they got paid for it. Jesus came to serve, not to promote a big-business gospel. When people "minister" for personal gain, servanthood is lost. Preaching and teaching should never be motivated by the promise of personal gain. When God calls you to do something, obey him, even if there is no monetary reward.

How to see if pastors are genuine:

John 7:16-18 says...
16So Jesus answered them and said, "(T)My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.


17"(U)If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. 18"He who speaks from himself (V)seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Those who attempt to know God's will and do it will know intuitively that Jesus was telling the truth about himself. Have you ever listened to religious speakers and wondered if they were telling the truth? Test them: (1) ask if their words agree with or contradict the Bible, and (2) ask if their words point to God and doing his will or to themselves.

 

[sugaplum]

The Pastor and all the deacons, the deaconess, the Reverends, etc. of my church are well off. Where the money comes from for all the things they have, it's really not any of my business. I just know that they are prosperous and blessed. Yes, they do go all over the world preaching the gospel.

IMO, I can't judge them or go by all the "things" that they have. Sometimes the Devil will put these things in our heads to make us lose focus. I'm just blessed and happy that they are in my church and have been with us for soooo many years. God knows where the tithes/offerings are going and we can do is pray and leave it in his hands.

 

[Sweet C]

My father and I both believe that pastors/preachers should live humbly (sp?) and that includes the amount of money they have, the cars they drive, etc. My mother believes that there is nothing wrong with a Pastor driving a Bentley and having a mansion. My father makes the point that most of the greatest religious leaders to have ever lived (Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, & Ghandi) were men of humble means and any extraneous resources they would use to better the community and their followers.

My question is why as a Man or Woman of God would you want to be in excess of wealth and buy/have frivolous things when you could be using that money to further the message & mission of Christ?

I guess then my question to you is that why is this limited to being a pastor? We are all called to preach the gospel, so since we are all ministers, why should only one who is called to the office of a pastor expect to live meagerly?

I slighly disagree with the leaders being of humble means (physically) besides Ghandi. MLK wasn't poor as a pastor, and neither was Malcom really after he left the Nation.

The scripture in reference to the rich man, he did lack one thing. The commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart. The fact that he wasn't willing to give up riches reflected that. Jesus then follow by saying it wasn't easy for a rich man to enter into heaven. This confused his disciples b/c if you examine the OT, the most devoted servants of God (ie. Abraham, David, Job, etc.) did acquire great wealth as they served the Lord, and it was a common Jewish teaching that wealth was a measure of your rlp with God. He then ended by saying all things are possible with God.

Overall, I agree with HoneyHips. In John, when it talkes about Jesus came to have life and have it more abundantly, I takes it to mean every area of my life including financially. I don't beleive there is anything wrong about enjoying the fruit of your labor. After all, the labourer is worhty of his hire (Lk 10:7). The early church was patroned highly by rich members who often took care of visiting apostles or ministers when they came to town.

 

[JenJen2721]

I'm mostly in agreeance with qtgirl...perhaps there's nothing wrong with a pastor being wealthy, but why drive a Bentley and live in a mansion when there's so many struggling and hungry in the world? How can you AFFORD to be so wealthy in a world like this? (Just my humble opinion). I stopped arguing about this very subject and just don't contribute any money to "rich" pastors. My pastors are very humble and do more for the community than most rich churches. That says a lot. I have no problem giving my money to my church, because I KNOW it's going to be used for a good cause and not to make them rich.

I love listening to Joyce Meyers, but will probably never send her any money. I also won't be attending her conferences, unless it's free. I just stick to listening to her on the radio. I do like, however, the way she posts on her website all of the money she gives to charity and which charities she donates to. She has also freely stated how much she earns...I believe over 150,000 a year.

 

[qtgirl]

Don't forget that she also will be receiving that money back when she pays her taxes. I forgot the percentage of it and to receive any money back from the IRS based on your charitable giving it has to be higher than a certain other number. So, if she counts the money she gives to charity as income given away she will receive a good amount back to her. I just went to her website and read her financial information, even with the expenses of running the ministry (salaries, etc.), and her outreach efforts, they are in excess of 1 million dollars, which she doesn't have to pay money on in taxes because her ministry is tax exempt.

I don't want anyone to think that I am suggesting that pastors live in total poverty, but instead have a modest exisistance.

I'm mostly in agreeance with qtgirl...perhaps there's nothing wrong with a pastor being wealthy, but why drive a Bentley and live in a mansion when there's so many struggling and hungry in the world? How can you AFFORD to be so wealthy in a world like this? (Just my humble opinion). I stopped arguing about this very subject and just don't contribute any money to "rich" pastors. My pastors are very humble and do more for the community than most rich churches. That says a lot. I have no problem giving my money to my church, because I KNOW it's going to be used for a good cause and not to make them rich.

I love listening to Joyce Meyers, but will probably never send her any money. I also won't be attending her conferences, unless it's free. I just stick to listening to her on the radio. I do like, however, the way she posts on her website all of the money she gives to charity and which charities she donates to. She has also freely stated how much she earns...I believe over 150,000 a year.

 

[Vintagecoilylocks]

The way my church is one of two ways. Pastor's either have to work for a living like Paul. We loveling call them tent maker priests. They have to like any other man support their family and life. So he earns what any person i his particular profession earns. I know some who are mechanics. Then the a congregation can decide whether to support the pastor and pay a salary. That is decided by the elders and congregation. So that is to the satisfaction of all involved. It can sometimes be a package where housing is provided free with a living allowance in cash plus medical and such. There is a small retirement fund from donations only for elderly priests who did not work out side the parish. So a man earns according to his labors or the in agreeance with the parish. Some times like now we have a felow priest from a small parish who is disabled an supportted by his parish. He was a victim of persecution in Romania under communism. Well many parishes have gotten together to pay some recent hefty medical bills for him because his parish was strained beyond their ability. I have never heard any complaints based on this system of how much the pastors earn or have in my church.

 

[angaliquew]

I guess then my question to you is that why is this limited to being a pastor? We are all called to preach the gospel, so since we are all ministers, why should only one who is called to the office of a pastor expect to live meagerly?QUOTE]



I totally agree. I don't understand why people think pastors are supposed to be humble and suffer. Why would God want anyone to live poor when by wealth they could bless people in need? How can you help others if you’re in need? Why can't pastors enjoy the fruits of their labor just like anyone else (doctor, lawyer, entertainer)? All Christians are servants of God, so does that mean we're all suppose to live humbly...

 

[Browndilocks]

A pastor's material possessions should reflect that of the church. Meaning, if he/she drives a bentley and lives lavishly, then the church building should be gorgeous and all church programs should be well maintained and fully staffed & accommodated.

A pastor should obtain nice things with the help of his congregation because he leads them, simply put.

The only problem I have is when the pastor is livin' large but has his congregation in a store-front church and everything in the church is broke down & ugly...on top of the fact that the congregation is very low on the economic scale. Then and only then do I see a problem.

 

[beverly]

I agree with the last comment. Our pastor does a good job, we have a new 27 million dollar mega church, with plenty of parking, and we do ALOT of mission work. Our church does great things for many people in need, and so I think God wants us who do his work to enjoy life and rewards us for our work. God isn't broke, so I don't believe he wants me or our pastor to be broke either. I drive a BMW, those are the only types of cars I will buy, I have a single family home, with a two car garage, I tithe over 10% and I volunteer my time and constantly give money to those in need. I am under 30 years, single old with no kids, and there would be many people to say that I don't need what I have.

But whenever people give me props for my accomplishments, I give God the Glory for it, so that is being humble. I realize it is he who provides me with all that I have not the company I work for..

I do like nice things which sometimes can be expensive.. And I am expecting God to give me a bigger house and a nicer car within the next 5 years too

There will always be those who have alot, just have enough, and thos who have not, that is just the way God allows it to be. If everything was perfect here, why would we want to go heaven..

 

[webby]

God isn't broke, so I don't believe he wants me or our pastor to be broke either.

Amen to that!

 

[qtgirl]

This is one thing that I've always liked about the Catholic Religion, the vow of poverty.

Q. Does the Holy Bible support the vow of poverty?

A. Yes, there are two Bible passages that refer to embracing a life of poverty. The first is found in the Gospel of Luke where Jesus teaches that those who wish to follow Him should dispose of their personal property. The second is found in the Acts of the Apostles where it is revealed that the early Christians did not claim private ownership of any possessions, but rather, shared everything in common.


"A certain ruler asked him, 'Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?' Jesus said to him, 'Why doyou call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'You shall not commit adultery; You shall not murder; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother.' He replied, 'I have kept all these since my youth.' When Jesus heard this, he said to him, 'There is still one thing lacking. Sell all that you own and distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me. Jesus looked at him and said, 'How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!'" [Lk. 18:18-23]

"Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need." [Acts 4:32-5]

 

[JenJen2721]

Great scriptures, QT.

I just wanted to add that I believe it's more important for a church to give to the community and help the poor than to have a big beautiful church with "state of the art" everything.

My church started out as a prison ministry...not in a physical building, then my pastors opened up a home for abused women...and then the building was then turned into a church. I love the fact that my church began as a ministry set up to help less fortunate...and that helping the less fortunate has continued to be at the forefront of my church....stressing the fact that faith without works is dead.

 

[GodsPromises]

JenJen,

It's funny that you said how your church stating, because that is what my DH is working on now. We have gotten the mininisty registered as a non-profit organization for those who are coming out of prison and their families.

Great scriptures, QT.

I just wanted to add that I believe it's more important for a church to give to the community and help the poor than to have a big beautiful church with "state of the art" everything.

My church started out as a prison ministry...not in a physical building, then my pastors opened up a home for abused women...and then the building was then turned into a church. I love the fact that my church began as a ministry set up to help less fortunate...and that helping the less fortunate has continued to be at the forefront of my church....stressing the fact that faith without works is dead.

 

[beverly]

Oh and one last thing, this is the scripture that I can be a witness too:


Luke 6: 38 Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will they pour into the pouch formed by the bosom of your robe and used as a bag. For with the measure you deal out with the measure you use when you confer benefits on others, it will be measured back to you.


I don't think Jesus would give us pressed down, shaken together, runnig over blessings if he didn't want us to enjoy it. Money isn't evil or even spending it isn't, but when you have a love for it is where the problem is.. Abudance is a good thing!

 

[qtgirl]

Yes, but in that same chapter Jesus says(Luke 6:24)
24 But woe to (alas for) you who are rich ([n]abounding in material resources), for you already are receiving your consolation (the solace and sense of strengthening and cheer that come from prosperity) and have taken and enjoyed your comfort in full [having nothing left to be awarded you].

I say all that to say, I do believe that good things (incl. money) can come to people who deserve it, however my sticking point is men and women of the cloth. Maybe that's my own cross to bear.

Oh and one last thing, this is the scripture that I can be a witness too:


Luke 6: 38 Give, and it will be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will they pour into the pouch formed by the bosom of your robe and used as a bag. For with the measure you deal out with the measure you use when you confer benefits on others, it will be measured back to you.


I don't think Jesus would give us pressed down, shaken together, runnig over blessings if he didn't want us to enjoy it. Money isn't evil or even spending it isn't, but when you have a love for it is where the problem is.. Abudance is a good thing!

 

[JenJen2721]

JenJen,

It's funny that you said how your church stating, because that is what my DH is working on now. We have gotten the mininisty registered as a non-profit organization for those who are coming out of prison and their families.

That's so awesome, Raquel! I will be praying for you guys!

 

[Honeyhips]

, however my sticking point is men and women of the cloth. Maybe that's my own cross to bear.

yup, and you can't put it off on anyone else.

I personally don't want my Pastor and his family to be broke and living in Poverty.

He was able to give away $600 in service this past Sunday and has given away $200 each week, Sunday and Wednesday since the beginning of March.

I don't understand why God's laws on blessing and giving, living abundantly can't fall onto Pastors.

 

[Honeyhips]

I think God had Jesus live that way to test the heart of the jews. He wanted people to be focused on what he was saying, and not what he was doing. They had the wrong idea of what Christ would be, so God had to give them opposite.


I think that young man placed to much value on his things which is why God told him to sell them. That is why he was sorrowful, when he had to do it.


I just want to make it a point that you CANNOT assume that b/c of what a pastor has, or that because you may consider it frivolous (who are you to determine what is frivolous to someone or not), that they are not giving out exceedinly and abundantly above what they have, or that they paid for it themselves. I was listening to TD Jakes and he mentioned how when he got his Escalade people were pissed off and tried to say he was extorting money. BUT no one knew the circumstances of how he got the car.

Akeys mom had a piano in her Hells Kitchen living room, that took up most of the space. Many people would call that frivolous and ridicolous. Look at where she is now. You can't determine how someone else should live and spend their money.


As far as the Catholics saying Poverty is good. The second verse has to do with everyone sharing everything and no one going with out. The last verse 37, says that they sold the land, but it doesn't mention that they HAD to do it to serve God. I don't think God wants us to be obsessed with things which is why you have many examples of people losing it all. God wants to show us that HE provides our needs.

I can't find it, but it may ring a bell for someone. Doesn't it say in the bible that God has cattle on a thousand hill, and something about what the Rich lay up he'll give to his children? Doesn't it also say that Jesus wore Preistly robes and garments?

Also you does not mean the specific you, I was speaking generally.

But by living humbly, they would be living more like Christ. Christ was not a rich man, he traveled on foot or donkey most of the time, not in chariots, or on horses. And the jews did not believe he was the Christ because of this, they expected the Christ to be someone like a King or a very wealthy man, which is why they are still waiting on Christ's return. No one could believe that this son of a carpenter was the King.



I don't like that as well, I think they do it to get more people to come to church. Too many Christians think that because they are a "faithful" Christian that they will be blessed with wealth. When God says that your reward is in heaven not on Earth, but people forget that.



Actually the scripture was about a young man who was doing everything else right, here is the whole scripture.

MATT 19:16-30
16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

27Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?

28And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

but instead have a modest exisistance

Maybe there defintion or expecatation of modesty is different than yours.

How can you help others if you’re in need? Why can't pastors enjoy the fruits of their labor just like anyone else (doctor, lawyer, entertainer)? All Christians are servants of God, so does that mean we're all suppose to live humbly...

Exactly....

Don't forget that she also will be receiving that money back when she pays her taxes. I forgot the percentage of it and to receive any money back from the IRS based on your charitable giving it has to be higher than a certain other number. So, if she counts the money she gives to charity as income given away

Anyone who gives to charity or a tithe and offering can report it on their taxes. My church gives people a statement of their giving at the end of the year.

The scripture in reference to the rich man, he did lack one thing. The commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart. The fact that he wasn't willing to give up riches reflected that. Jesus then follow by saying it wasn't easy for a rich man to enter into heaven. This confused his disciples b/c if you examine the OT, the most devoted servants of God (ie. Abraham, David, Job, etc.) did acquire great wealth as they served the Lord, and it was a common Jewish teaching that wealth was a measure of your rlp with God. He then ended by saying all things are possible with God.

That's what I was trying to say. LOL thanks.

A pastor or preacher should be a humble servant who had suffered for the same message of salvation in Jesus Christ

Living humbly can mean many things. The first could be don't boast about your valuables or your gifts b/c they come from God. Also ALL christians are going to suffer like Christ did, not just those who Preach and Pastor.

Micah severly condemned religious leaders who ministered only if they got paid for it. Jesus came to serve, not to promote a big-business gospel. When people "minister" for personal gain, servanthood is lost. Preaching and teaching should never be motivated by the promise of personal gain. When God calls you to do something, obey him, even if there is no monetary reward.

True. This is totally different than the Man of God being paid a salary in his own house. HOw else is he going to eat and provide for his family? This is basically saying money should not be the motivation to Preach. B/c unfortunately there are Preachers out there who do only want your money. OR what about the person who has a false sense of humility. They think they are doing everything right (they know the bible back and forth, they live in poverty, and etc), but there heart is full of pride, and they bear no fruit.

 

[beverly]

Go Honeyhips! I agree with everything you just said..

Also, when people have been quoting scriptures, referring to living humbly, etc, and how others should live, you have to remember when quoting scriptures, not to take things out of the context that it was originallly given in, when you do it can be interpreted into something else than what it was meant to be..

 

[Enchantmt]

Most of the time when the bible deals with the word humble it is dealing with a humble spirit vs a haughty spirit. You can be poor and haughty, rich and humble.

As far as selling all the land, it was done to support the church in the beginning, by mutual agreement, but it was not a requirement.

Acts 5, 1-10
But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

Basically their possessions were theirs to do with as they pleased, but they lied to God, and were punished.

As far as Joyce Meyers, most of her conferences are free, unless is is a special one like the womens conference where they do a registration and have guest speakers. I have been to see her 2 or 3 times and really enjoyed myself. They do take up an offering but you are not required to give, but I dont mind giving to a place that has edified me with the word. As far as the money she and others make, you have to realize that they are also authors, have videos and everything that can generate income for them seperately. It cost money to produce and distribute these things.Prision ministries and things. It costs money to travel. Millions to be on tv. Many ministers do it full time. I remember a stink about her income once, some group investigating ministries had a problem with the salary she and her husband were paid, as it was a rather large sum. They didnt look at the fact that she was donating all or almost all of her book sales back to the ministry which excceded her salary. So they just changed it and she keeps the book or at least part of the revenue.

As far as I see it, the bible tells us the poor will be with us always and to give to the poor. I cant give to the poor if I'm poor too. (I'm broke now but thats another story... I dont begrudge anyone the wealth they have) The bible stresses to remember who blessed us, that God gives us the power to get wealth. The apostles came from businesses of their own, doctors, fishermen, etc. They were so shocked at the rich man statement because they were not poor. Who then can enter? Why be shocked if they expected to be poor? All of his servants of old had gold, cattle, abundance. If He did it for them, He'll do it for me, and you too.

Good topic btw...