Real Talk: Please give me examples and numbers

[FAMUDva]

Good morning LHCF

I'm reading the old threads that have been dug up about women of different backgrounds that grow hair faster, whether or not mixed girls grow hair easier, and on and on and on....

I'm sitting at my desk a lil perplexed and thinking, I may be in the minority in thinking I AM NOT INFERIOR because my hair DOES grow slower and to date my hair has never in my life been past a certain point... EVER... not as a child, not as a grown woman, and not in the 3+ years I've been on LHCF. Now, some times I get irratated about it, but life goes on and it is just hair, but I'm about to ask something that I want REAL answers to and REAL numbers.

How many of black women do you ladies see on a day-to-day with BSL or LONGER hair. And yeah, I'm going by the 1-drop American rule . If the chick considers herself black (regardless of what she's mixed with or where she's from), then I'm asking how many of y'all see them with BSL or longer hair? Now, I'm sure some will speak of their momma, sister, and aunties etc, but real talk, come with numbers and let me know if you for real see just as many (or close to as many) black women with LONG hair as you do women of other racial backgrounds.

It's a simple question and it's not as deep as "how our hair coils" vs. this that and the other. I'm just asking because I'm sitting over here thinking I must live in a shell where the most long haired black women I know live on the internet.

My personal answer: I know 1 black girl at work with BSL hair, and in my personal life I know about 3-4.


Feel free to give your comparative answer of women of other backgrounds that you see or know with BSL or longer hair. Thanks for being real with me ladies. Oh yeah, feel free to tell me I'm completely wrong too.

TIA!

 

[Serenity_Peace]

I feel you. I often think about this as well. It's hard not to believe that black women simply don't grow long hair, as I don't know many in my personal life except for maybe a few aunts of mine. On the street, I may see 1 out of every 30 or 40, and that's not including those that may be wearing weaves that I cannot tell. As for me, it took me nearly two years (with a couple of setbacks) to get from a little beyond shoulder to APL. I often wonder if the lovely ladies here on the forum are an aberration and not representative of the larger pool of black women. Don't flame me, just sharing my experiences.

 

[Evolving78]

i haven't seen anyone with that length of hair in awhile, but i do know quite a few people that can grow their hair to that length if they stop it with the hair cuts. none of these women have mixed ethnicities (both parents are black) i know that i am able to achieve that because before long hair care forum, my hair was getting longer and healthy than ever in my life. i have had my hair cut several times since being on this board. i just needed to learn what worked for my hair and how to retain it. I will say about 30+. all of these people had hair down there backs some time throughout their lives.

 

[JayAnn0513]

There are 2-3 at work, my BFF from high school, my cousin, another friends sister...and thats about it. So 6 people off the top of my head.
There are the people I current know w/ BSL hair. All 5 of my grandmothers children had BSL relaxed hair at somepoint in their lives - usually until highschool when they cut it and rocked an afro.

In my day to day life I do not see many women other than mexican americans with hair that long. I can't think of any white women at work with hair past BSL. Most of then have their hair cut in bob or layered styles. I even know 1 who wears a horrible looking weave ponytail

 

[supermodelsonya]

I feel you as well. Lets see..with my friends only about two people come to mind. Two friends.
Friend 1-BSL (she recently cut to APL but it will grow back)
Friend 2-MBL (she also chops on her hair)

I drive for the Chicago Transit Authority in some of the roughest neighborhoods too. It's rare that I see a girl about SL and if she is, almost EVERYONE is looking at her hair on the bus, trying to see if she is wearing a weave.

I've seen fights on the bus because of this subject. I've had girls look me upside my head as well. (I wear some FIERCE weaves!) LOL

I may get stoned for saying this but, when I drive through the bad neighborhoods, I don't see SL or longer hair often, but when I take my bus through Hyde Park (affluent diverse neighborhood, where Barack Obama lives) those girls have APL or longer and I see a lot of beautiful naturals.

I wonder why THAT is?

 

[Neith]

I would say about 10% to 15% of black women I see on the street have BSL hair.

Our "problem" with our hair is not that we collectively have slow growing hair. There is no black-slowgrowth gene Our hair growth rates are JUST as varied as theirs. (HOW IN THE WORLD CAN A MEMBER HERE NOT REALIZE THAT WITH ALL THE LONG HAIR FLOWING AROUND HERE?!)

What we do have a problem with is working with our fragile texture. Even naturals have a difficult time retaining length. It's easier for people with less coarse, less curly and kinky hair to retain length.

 

[FAMUDva]

Thanks for the honest responses ladies.
Please understand that I'm not saying black women can't or don't grow long hair; I'm just saying I don't see as many with long hair as I see white, latina and Asian women in my neck of the woods (Atlanta, GA). I do see quite a few black women with long healthy hair here, just not, on average, as many as I see of women from other backgrounds.

The other thing I noticed on other long hair sites that cater to women of various ethnic and racial backgrounds, what's considered long hair to them is a different standard than it is on LHCF. Maybe it's just psychology, but it makes me wonder often.

 

[MA2010]

I gots nothing.....BSL is hard to come by IMO where I am from.

APL.....yes! BSL not so much.

 

[Neith]

I feel you as well. Lets see..with my friends only about two people come to mind. Two friends.
Friend 1-BSL (she recently cut to APL but it will grow back)
Friend 2-MBL (she also chops on her hair)

I drive for the Chicago Transit Authority in some of the roughest neighborhoods too. It's rare that I see a girl about SL and if she is, almost EVERYONE is looking at her hair on the bus, trying to see if she is wearing a weave.

I've seen fights on the bus because of this subject. I've had girls look me upside my head as well. (I wear some FIERCE weaves!) LOL

I may get stoned for saying this but, when I drive through the bad neighborhoods, I don't see SL or longer hair often, but when I take my bus through Hyde Park (affluent diverse neighborhood, where Barack Obama lives) those girls have APL or longer and I see a lot of beautiful naturals.

I wonder why THAT is?

Educated people will seek out the info more often. Sad, but true. That's what I think it is.

I mean... even here at lhcf there are A LOT of successful women. Haven't you ever noticed it? How many times have you walked into a room full with hundreds of college educated/professional black women? For me I'd have to honestly have to say, doesn't happen much to me IRL.

 

[FAMUDva]

I would say about 10% to 15% of black women I see on the street have BSL hair.

Our "problem" with our hair is not that we collectively have slow growing hair. There is no black-slowgrowth gene Our hair growth rates are JUST as varied as theirs. (HOW IN THE WORLD CAN A MEMBER HERE NOT REALIZE THAT WITH ALL THE LONG HAIR FLOWING AROUND HERE?!)

What we do have a problem with is working with our fragile texture. Even naturals have a difficult time retaining length. It's easier for people with less coarse, less curly and kinky hair to retain length.

There may be no "slow growing" gene, but there is nothing wrong with admitting our differences. Asian hair IS different from black hair, which IS different than Nordic hair. And yes, genetics cause those differences. As a person who has retained most of my length over the last 6 months, I STILL am not 1/2 way to where this chick is...

Again, growth rate has nothing to do with whether or not we can all get to the same lengths. It's like a marathon, most of us will get to the finish line, but certainly not at the same rate... and there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that. I'm not apologetic for admitting that MY afro-textured hair does grow slower. Again, I said MY... not hers, yours, or theirs.

 

[FAMUDva]

Educated people will seek out the info more often. Sad, but true. That's what I think it is.

I mean... even here at lhcf there are A LOT of successful women. Haven't you ever noticed it? How many times have you walked into a room full with hundreds of college educated/professional black women? For me I'd have to honestly have to say, doesn't happen much to me IRL.

I agree with you Neith, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second...

How many non-black women who are "uneducated" about hair do you see with long hair? I mean those who don't spend hours on the internet, they use curling irons, blow dryers, flat-irons, everyday and still have long hair (lengths that most of LHCF aspires for- APL, BSL, MBL)?

And I really can tell the same difference in white women who live in the "country" with greasy/ bad hair vs. the white girls with money and who get their hair "done".

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

Ok then, I've only seen 2 black people with bsl hair in my entire life.

 

[Neith]

There may be no "slow growing" gene, but there is nothing wrong with admitting our differences. Asian hair IS different from black hair, which IS different than Nordic hair. And yes, genetics cause those differences. As a person who has retained most of my length over the last 6 months, I STILL am not 1/2 way to where this chick is...

Again, growth rate has nothing to do with whether or not we can all get to the same lengths. It's like a marathon, most of us will get to the finish line, but certainly not at the same rate... and there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that. I'm not apologetic for admitting that MY afro-textured hair does grow slower. Again, I said MY... not hers, yours, or theirs.

Yes, there are differences.

but when it comes to average growth rate, there are none.

That's why I'm puzzled. There IS no African slow growing hair gene. If you take a group of 5000 blacks, 5000 Asians, 5000 Whites and measured their monthly growth rates and took an average... they would all come out to around .5 of an inch per month.

It is the average rate for a human being, regardless of ethnicity.

Yes, there may be some that have really fast growing hair.

I'm sure you know that there are black women who have fast growing hair. Why is it that THEY aren't representative of all of US? Why is it that when we see SOME women of other races with fast growing hair, we assume that all or most non-black women have faster growing hair. As if these white/Asian women with fast growing hair are representing the whole race. - That's the main thing that is getting to me. I don't understand it.

I'm not attacking anyone... no hard feelings on my part.

 

[glamazon386]

There's a lot on my mom's side of the family (but they are type 2s and 3s). Just in the day to day walking down the street it's rare to see black women with long hair. Most black women have weave or neck length or shorter hair. I honestly believe it's because of hair care practices and retention. Most black women are relaxed and most women of other races are not so that's another factor thrown into the mix coupled with the fact that super curly hair is more fragile and can be dry because sebum can't get through all the kinks and coils. I don't think we grow at a slower rate.

ETA: I guess I can include my mom. Her hair has grown from APL to BSL since she stopped going to her stylist and taking care of it at home (IE Me). She's a 4b. Her hair has hovered between SL and APL for probably the last 10 years though. Never longer than that. She gets layers cut but she didn't really take care of it like that. She didn't have a regimen or a schedule for it.

 

[Christina Dior]

yea its not the norm to see "long haired" black girls walking around but i think the problem is that we dont know how to take care of our hair point blank a lot of black woman including myself want straight hair the problem is we damage it in the process those who have an easier time getting it straight (type 3"s black, mixed etc) i guess "seem" to have an easier time growing it

 

[glamazon386]

Educated people will seek out the info more often. Sad, but true. That's what I think it is.

I mean... even here at lhcf there are A LOT of successful women. Haven't you ever noticed it? How many times have you walked into a room full with hundreds of college educated/professional black women? For me I'd have to honestly have to say, doesn't happen much to me IRL.

Because education opens you up to new information.

 

[KPH]

I have about 20 cousins that I see on a regular (when i'm home) with BSL or longer hair. I have a girlfriend with BSL hair and she does everything under the sun to it and it grows back like weeds. my youngest has BSL and my oldest has SL and she does everything under the sun to her hair. some of my cousins have 3b and my baby girl has 4z.

 

[soulie]

Another part of it is fashion. Younger black women may be able to grow it to their toes, but will hack it off because "RhiRhi" wears a short cut. Let Bey start wearing a Halle cut and see how fast some folk drop their weaves and lacefronts!

A number of older women keep their hair short for convenience, and because the perception used to be that long hair (especially worn down) was for younger women (read: unmarried). Married women were taking care of the children and the house and didn't have a lot of "spare" time to tend to long tresses.

Neither of the above examples addresses the ABILITY to have long hair; just the preference to have it. I think you will agree that 4a/b hair isn't wash and go hair; we don't generally get up in the morning wash our hair in the shower, comb it out and go to work while it airdries hanging down our back like many non-black women I have seen during my morning commute. I know my mother's hair was natural MBL my entire life, but when I was a child I had to beg her to wear it down -- the French roll was her standard style because it took too much time to deal with if she wore it down. Think of Sunday morning - trying to get me dressed for church, herself, and bonus time for her hair. We'd have been up before dawn!

Back to the original question though: do you all realize how lucky you are to be somewhere where you SEE black women on a regular basis? I live out in a cornfield and there are NO blacks for me to see -- so for all I know this year they are wearing multicolored mohawks.

 

[FAMUDva]

It's not a question of race with me but hair type. The mixed race girls i have seen with type 4 hair have short hair and those with type 3 have long hair. Just as with black people, those with type 4 hair have short hair and those with type 3 (such as east africans)have long hair. I have only seen 4 type 4s with long hair in my whole life:2 black and 2 mixed.

THat's why I said, if they consider themselves black...

I'm not asking the mixed vs. whateva hair type....

I'm asking how many black women (whateva their hair type) do you see on a regular vs. white/asian or caucasian latina women?

For the record, I don't get into hair typing because it's too complicated just to say something really simple... curly hair vs. wavy hair vs. straight hair. I'm not inquiring about hair type though.

 

[Neith]

I agree with you Neith, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second...

How many non-black women who are "uneducated" about hair do you see with long hair? I mean those who don't spend hours on the internet, they use curling irons, blow dryers, flat-irons, everyday and still have long hair (lengths that most of LHCF aspires for- APL, BSL, MBL)?

And I really can tell the same difference in white women who live in the "country" with greasy/ bad hair vs. the white girls with money and who get their hair "done".

Money dooes help with taking care of your hair I think. One of those things that's sad... but I'll admit it. (I'm broke as hell myself ) But most of us know how it is in "The Hood"

C'mon now, be real. Are (most) people living in the hood really thinking about what they are going to DC with next? That's not the typical mindset.

And lawd, before I start something I'm not saying that everyone from the hood is low class or stupid. I'm from the same place. I'm just saying... there are general trends of behavior when it comes to these neighborhoods. Poorer people generally don't take care of themselves in certain ways as well as richer people, regardless of race.

Anyways, to answer the question...

Nape - A LOT.

Shoulder - A fair amount.

APL - Quite a few. In my personal experience, I've run into too many women to count with APL hair.

If someone can get to APL, they most likely can get to BSL with proper care. I don't think it's because of a slow growth rate. It's our hair texture, which we all know is fragile.

BSL and longer, not so much. A few, but it's rare.

I'm not saying that it's very common to see a black woman with long hair, but sometimes people act like it just doesn't exist. Like they have never seen ANYONE with long hair.

It's not very common to see a non black woman with ultra long hair either imo. It's not like 90% of white people are running around with waist length hair. Past BSL is rare for anyone imo. Yes, it's more rare for black women because of our tricky texture imo.

Now lookie there... I wrote an essay

Um... yeah... I'm going to have to pry myself off of this computer.

 

[FAMUDva]

Yes, there are differences.

but when it comes to average growth rate, there are none.

That's why I'm puzzled. There IS no African slow growing hair gene. If you take a group of 5000 blacks, 5000 Asians, 5000 Whites and measured their monthly growth rates and took an average... they would all come out to around .5 of an inch per month.

It is the average rate for a human being, regardless of ethnicity.

Yes, there may be some that have really fast growing hair.

I'm sure you know that there are black women who have fast growing hair. Why is it that THEY aren't representative of all of US? Why is it that when we see SOME women of other races with fast growing hair, we assume that all or most non-black women have faster growing hair. As if these white/Asian women with fast growing hair are representing the whole race. - That's the main thing that is getting to me. I don't understand it.

I'm not attacking anyone... no hard feelings on my part.

Average infers there IS a difference... the mathmatical average means you have a bell curve with a very low end and a very high end... so just using the word "average" does not solve the issue... The way you come up with an average is taking the "Mean of the entire sample population".

Again, I'm not discounting that there are black, white, brown, whateva women that grow hair fast... BUT if you are taking an AVERAGE of the human race, there are some that fall in the low end of the sample popluation, the middle, and the very extreme high end. That much is agreed.

There are certainly no hard feelings here, but I'm certainly not discounting the fact that an average is just that. And no, I haven't personally done the research to find out which race (or hair type) falls in the low end of that sample population, or even it really breaks down by race. I'm just saying... my hair grows on average slower than women of other races I've met... and so does most of MY black friends/ family. And within my black friends and family some of their hair grows faster or slower than mine, while growing slower than some of my other friends.

 

[FAMUDva]

I'm not saying that it's very common to see a black woman with long hair, but sometimes people act like it just doesn't exist. Like they have never seen ANYONE with long hair.

I know what you mean... I'm not saying I don't see any black women with long hair, but REAL TALK (since this is the theme of my serious of questions ), I do a double take when I see em. Y'all can act like I'm the only one if you wanna! Shoot, let me see a sista with BSL, MBL, or longer hair in real life and I'm breaking my neck looking then I typically walk over and tell her she has beautiful hair. I know the girl at my local Super Target is tired of me telling her that when I see her at work! She has somewhere b/w MBL-WL hair.

 

[FAMUDva]

Back to the original question though: do you all realize how lucky you are to be somewhere where you SEE black women on a regular basis? I live out in a cornfield and there are NO blacks for me to see -- so for all I know this year they are wearing multicolored mohawks.

Yeah, I realize how lucky I am to live in a Chocolate city . When I used to travel for work, I hated going any place where I was the only black person for miles and miles.

 

[ladytee2]

My sister is full APL. A lady at my church and her 2 daughters are BSL. So that is3 BSL I can think of off the top of my head.

I also want to add that saying we have more delicate hair doesn't make our hair inferior. We just have to give our crown and glory the respect and care it deserves.

 

[Slave4Hair]

Before college i had never seen a black woman with hair longer than APL (that wasn't of mixed race). When i got to school, i have seen like 2 women at bra strap and 1 waist length, which absolutely shocked me. In fact, when i saw her hair, i asked her who did her weave, she looked at me like erplexed. My hair has always been BSL until i cut it off...now i'm trying to grow it back, and is taking FOREVER!!!! I agree with the money thing, because when my hair WAS bsl, my mom was taking me to the salon every week to have it washed and styled. Now that i'm in college and BROKE, i do it myself...this may have something to do with it. Sadly i never learned to do my hair because my mom always sent me to the salon to have it cared for, now that i'm on my own, i'm one confused girl...lol.

 

[LunadeMiel]

Why is so hard for people to accept that when it comes to hair we are genetically different from other "races". Just like because of the makeup of our skin we are less likely to get skin cancer, we also age better. I mean Cot Damn...
About 90% of the women in my life have had hair BSL or longer.

When it comes to other women it's rare for me to see anyone with BSL hair or longer.

 

[Neith]

Average infers there IS a difference... the mathmatical average means you have a bell curve with a very low end and a very high end... so just using the word "average" does not solve the issue... The way you come up with an average is taking the "Mean of the entire sample population".

Again, I'm not discounting that there are black, white, brown, whateva women that grow hair fast... BUT if you are taking an AVERAGE of the human race, there are some that fall in the low end of the sample popluation, the middle, and the very extreme high end. That much is agreed.

There are certainly no hard feelings here, but I'm certainly not discounting the fact that an average is just that. And no, I haven't personally done the research to find out which race (or hair type) falls in the low end of that sample population, or even it really breaks down by race. I'm just saying... my hair grows on average slower than women of other races I've met... and so does most of MY black friends/ family. And within my black friends and family some of their hair grows faster or slower than mine, while growing slower than some of my other friends.

You know the bell curve. The majority of us grow very close to half an inch. There are a few people who grow significantly slower and a few that grow significantly faster. Since we are talking about A LOT of people, there will be A LOT of individuals at both ends, however most of us are near the middle.

That was my point. The majority of us, regardless of race have similar growth rates.

I dunno... I just don't use my personal experience to make a judgment on some things. For every thing you have seen, there may be something totally different that you missed right around the corner.

While personal experience does count for something - I still believe that when you think of things that involve literally billions of people, what you see in your personal life does not always apply. It's only a tiny part of the whole picture.

 

[Country gal]

A couple of my cousins have BSL. A good friend had BSL hair too.

 

[Son26]

Only 1. The building where I work, most of the ladies are neck length or shoulder length. My boss is the only woman I know with long hair. Her hair is now BSL and thick, it also grows very fast (she cuts it whenever it gets to WL).

 

[Neith]

Why is so hard for people to accept that when it comes to hair we are genetically different from other "races". Just like because of the makeup of our skin we are less likely to get skin cancer, we also age better. I mean Cot Damn...
About 90% of the women in my life have had hair BSL or longer.

When it comes to other women it's rare for me to see anyone with BSL hair or longer.

See the thing is... I DO accept differences. No, we are all not exactly the same, but we ALSO are much more alike than we are different.

I've read a lot about hair from a lot of different sources. They all say that the average rate is about 6 inches per year. This is not a black or white thing. It's a human thing.

What if I said that white people's grow nails faster than black people's? Makes as much sense to me as saying that their hair grows faster.