sex before marriage

butterfly7

Active Member
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The scripture I listed in my post said that the sexual immoral will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Isn't fornication sexually immoral? What's the point of Jesus saving one from their sins if they continue to do them?


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Yes. In I Corinthians it says fornicators will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Revelation paints a vivid picture of hell and talks about who will go there. What is your interpretation of these scriptures if you don't believe it means going to hell? What about God separating the wheat from the tares and what about the passage that says the wages of sin is death? Death, being the opposite of eternal life. I know that if you repent, your sins will be forgiven, but what if you are living a lifestyle of sin?
 

Sweet C

Well-Known Member
To answer Yung's question: No person can tell u if you are going to hell or not, b/c that decision is not given to us, but to God. We can only speak and condemn the sin and tell u what the word says. I think the women on this board have raised excellent points supported biblically that fornication is wrong period. Whether you believe that u are going to marry this person or not. The definition of repent is to not only feel sorry and ask God for forgiveness for your sins, but to ALSO change your ways (most people tend to forget this part of the definition). Hebrews 13:4 says Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled; but whoremongers and adulters God will judge. This means that whether u are saved or not, if u choose to marry, God honors marriage between a man and woman as a joining of two people to one, but sexual relations outside of the holy bond of marriage is wrong and God will judge in the end for it. Remember no matter how society can or may change, God holds us to the same standard of excellence.
 

JenJen2721

New Member
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Remember no matter how society can or may change, God holds us to the same standard of excellence.



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--EXCELLENTE!!!!---
 

Supergirl

With Love & Silk
Chyna,

I am not leading anyone astray--I am just telling them what the Bible says
You say that I'm making a bad judgement call to tell YuNg that he will not go to hell for pre-marital sex. I didn't say it. The Bible did so you must be calling the Word of God a bad judgement.

Chyna you said that if ALL WE NEED TO DO WAS ACCEPT CHRIST AS YOUR SAVIOUR as your saviour and then we could continue to fornicate, kill, lie, steal,,,and all other things that we did before everyone would be saved because no one would have to give up anything.

The capitalized part is all we need! That's what the Bible says. I know it seems too good to be true that we can believe on this man and his death and resurrection and confess it with our mouths then wallah, we're saved! But that's the good news of the gospel.


You say if this was all it took (as if it's something small) then everyone would be saved. It is God's will that everyone be saved. It's not some exclusive program that is only meant for some people.

I agree that once someone is saved that they are continually being changed from the inside out. But I know many a saved-person that has back-slidden. That doesn't make them un-saved all of a sudden. If you cannot sin after you are saved then that would mean that being saved would come with the condition that you have to be perfect. The Bible doesn't add that condition in to John 3:16 or Romans 10:9. No flesh and blood (except the Saviour) is or ever will be perfect until we inherit our eternal bodies
 

Chyna Red

New Member
You are twisting the word and mine...As I said before I know that no one is perfect but Jesus..and I said before that as Christians we do make mistakes and sometimes sin...but it should not be a continuous intentional thing... No where in the bible does it say that you can become saved and then continue on living a life of sin and evil ....And no where in the bible does it say fornicators will inherit the kingdom of God. That's like saying one can become saved and then decide they want to become a devil worshipper..and that's okay because they are saved..Like the Bible said if you do this then you never knew the lord in the first place.

"You say if this was all it took (as if it's something small) then everyone would be saved. It is God's will that everyone be saved. It's not some exclusive program that is only meant for some people. "

It is something small if all one does is confess Jesus as Lord and then continue on in a life of sin..not only is it small but also meaningless. Also I know that salvation is meant for everyone <never said otherwise> but I am also aware that not everyone will accept the free gift and become saved...so if by exclusive u mean saved and unsaved then I guess that would be correct. I will be praying for Godly wisdom and understanding for us because some of us sure do need it!...done!
 

JenJen2721

New Member
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The Bible doesn't add that condition in to John 3:16 or Romans 10:9. No flesh and blood (except the Saviour) is or ever will be perfect until we inherit our eternal bodies


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But Supergirl, you're kind of ignoring all the other scriptures that people have listed here.

What about the ones that say the sexually immoral and fornicators will not enter the kingdom of God. These were words of knowledge sent to the church (meaning people who are saved.) What about when the bible says the wages of sin are death. I urge you to study the Word thoroughly. Jesus says those who don't repent will perish. Repentance comes after you get saved.

What about these scriptures?:
Matthew 5
29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Matthew 18
8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

[In these scriptures he is saying make whatever sacrifices you have to make to stop sinning]


Romans 6:15
Slaves to Righteousness

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Romans 8

12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

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No flesh and blood (except the Saviour) is or ever will be perfect until we inherit our eternal bodies

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No but God understands that are not perfect and have weaknesses....He is there to help us through them...

Romans 8

26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.

Like the parable I posted earlier, he will only tolerate non-repentance for so long before he cuts us off.
Some backslide, but they can't backslide forever you know?


Additionally, telling someone if they will go to hell or won't go to hell for something is judging which we are not to do. God is the only one who determines who will inherit the kingdom of God.

When I commit sin knowingly, the guilt eats me up inside and I just want to do everything in my power to fight it and stop doing it. God knows this and He helps us through.

It seems like you're just listening to the two scriptures you listed and not listening to the dozens of other ones posted here that are in the same bible. We're all still learning though.
 

butterfly7

Active Member
The Bible says it is better to marry than to burn. That means that burning IS an option. Also:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Clearly, this says we must do His will in order to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Also:

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The word "iniquity" here means "lawlessness." Thus false prophets reject God's law--His Word--in favor of their own philosophy or experiences and thus cannot do His will (Matthew 7:21,26).

I truly believe in God's forgiveness and His grace, yet we must strive to do God's will. We must KNOW this. I urge everyone that believes in Jesus Christ to ask the Holy Spirit to guide them. We have to truly honor God and to continue to live in sin is not His will for us. That is why He died on the cross for us.
 

Chyna Red

New Member
Thanks Jen and Butterfly that was my point...although as Christians we may still sin.. we are immediately convicted..and want to do everything in our power to stop or stay away from whatever it is we had no business doing. Not continue to do it over and over because once saved always saved so it doesn't matter how we live.
 

butterfly7

Active Member
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Chyna Red said:
Thanks Jen and Butterfly that was my point...although as Christians we may still sin.. we are immediately convicted..and want to do everything in our power to stop or stay away from whatever it is we had no business doing. Not continue to do it over and over because once saved always saved so it doesn't matter how we live.

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Also, someone made a very great point previously by saying no one or nothing can separate us from God. However, WE can certainly separate OURSELVES from God. God made it clear in I John that NO ONE can pluck us from God. That's true and God NEVER turns away from us, but WE turn away from God.
 

Supergirl

With Love & Silk
Jen Jen,

I appreciate the respectful tone and non-judgemental approach that you are using to discuss this with me
I appreciate you also not launching a personal attack against me even though we're not agreeing at this moment on this particular matter.


I do not mean to ignore the other scriptures but if looked at closely then John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 must contradict some of the other ones if the other ones are saying that you are not saved if you commit sin. (?)

Butterfly,

It is my understanding that the scripture about marrying being better than burning means burning with passion. (loosely translated--it's better to go ahead and get married than to sit up and be horny and frustrated
--sorry so raunchy sounding)

Back to you Jen Jen,

Serious question though: What is the fine line between how many sins you can commit after you have asked Jesus into your heart to be your savious? I have sinned many times since becoming a Christian for the simple fact that I am flawed. I don't think that means that I'm not saved anymore, or wasn't ever saved, or am going to hell. Jen Jen, please tell me what you make of this.

Thanks
 

Chyna Red

New Member
If you took what I said as a personal attack against you or me being judgemental...then you were mistaken..Everything that I said can be found in the bible and if you consider stating the word as judging then I can't change that. I wasn't rude or attacking you. Was just trying to find out <biblically speaking> how you came to the conclusions that you did about sin and salvation.... I also was concerned about the fact that you could tell someone seeking spiritual advice with certainty that they will not go to hell for committing a sin. I just suggested that we be cautious of what we tell people< we as in everyone responding to his/her question>> and make sure that it is understood that what we say is only our opinions as we have no idea of who will end up in hell and for what. If my words offended you then they were taken out of context because nothing that I have said written or implied can be seen as mean, or as a personal attack. None of us here know everything that we need to know about God or the bible... there is always room to grow and learn < which in part is the reason for the bible study>and part of that is understanding the views and beliefs of others. We may not always agree but we shouldn't become offended or attacked because we don't agree on things... That was not the intent of my posts.
 

JenJen2721

New Member
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Serious question though: What is the fine line between how many sins you can commit after you have asked Jesus into your heart to be your savious? I have sinned many times since becoming a Christian for the simple fact that I am flawed. I don't think that means that I'm not saved anymore, or wasn't ever saved, or am going to hell. Jen Jen, please tell me what you make of this.

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Honestly, I don't believe there is a fine line between how many sins you can commit after you have asked Jesus into your heart. If that was the case, people would be sitting up going, "Hmmmm,
.....lemme see, well.....I have 8 more sins that I can commit before God gets fed up. Let me use them wisely...
" No, seriously, I just don't think it works like that. God judges us each individually and the bible says that Jesus will come like a thief in the night:
***Matthew 24
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.***


I don't see any contradictions in the Word at all. Firstly when it says that Jesus saves us from our sins...that means the innate sin that every man is born with (what we inherited from Adam), and the penalty of that sin is death. So basically Jesus saves us from the death penalty. Now when the bible says that he who continues to sin never knew God, it's saying that if you claim that your sinful self died, and you are saved through Jesus, why would you continue embracing the thing that He saved us from? If someone saves your life, would you repay him by doing something that makes him unhappy? Wouldn't you be trying to please that person? It's the same way with God. So I think that's what Paul was saying is that you aren't acknowledging that Jesus even saved you if you continue on with sinning.

Being a Christian does not mean that we have diplomatic immunity...meaning we can continue to commit crimes and have no punishment for those crimes.

My fiance were struggling with fornication for a while, we decided to pray together and repent of our sin. When it became really difficult to abstain, we decided to fast one day a week, so that we were sacrificing our bodies to God and not lusting with each other. That first week after fasting, it's like we didn't really have the desire to have sex anymore. It seemed like things got so much easier to wait until the wedding day. And to me, it will make that day all the more special. God is good!! And a just God, if we would just follow His word.

Check out this article I got from a Christian newsletter that I subscribe to:

Have you died? We will all die one day physically. But, have you died before then? If you are a Christian, then you have already died. "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live ks as a contribution to your salvation, but you rely completely and totally on Christ's sacrifice, then you have died to sin. You have died through the identification with Christ on the Cross because as a Christian, you are "in Christ." "Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus," (Rom. 6:11). Also, see Rom. 8:1-2, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."
Death in the Bible is not the cessation of existence. It is separation. Physical death does not mean we stop existing; we continue on in the next life. Spiritual death means separation from God, eternally. Therefore, your death to sin is your separation from it. It is the separation from the power it has to damn you and to rule over you. It also means that because you are in Christ and Christ is in you, you have the power to resist sin where before you did not.
Yes, we still sin. Yes, we still struggle. But our struggle against sin proves that we are not dead in our sins. Instead we are alive in Christ. Only those who are alive struggle for life and we Christians certainly struggle for our life in Christ apart from sin. So, take courage and consolation by knowing that your struggle for holiness is pleasing to God and is also a sign of your salvation, something bought for by Jesus did on the cross.
Therefore, you are not to live in sin. You are not to live in fornication. You are not to live in compromise. You are not to live as though the grace of God will take care of your sins in such a way as to say that it is okay to sin just a little, or just a little more. No. You are dead to sin and are not to live after the ways of the flesh. You are not to compromise our Christian walk. You are to stand for righteousness. If you are a Christian and you claim the name of Christ, then walk in righteousness. Walk in the manner that Jesus walked. Stand for truth and stand against sin. "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, 'You shall be holy, for I am holy,'” (1 Pet. 1:14-16).
 

ChocoKitty

Well-Known Member
I've always been taught that God created sex for marriage. SEX IS NOT A SIN! Sex "outside" of marriage is a SIN.
 

EbonyEyes

Well-Known Member
Anybody can say the words "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" but the true point is whether you mean it or not.

I believe that when you truly accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you not only believe that he was the son of God and died for your sins but you also desire to live by his teachings. Like someone mentioned above, you haven't truly accepted Jesus if you go back to your sinful ways as if you never spoke words of accepting Jesus.

As I grow in my relationship with God, I notice that my desire to be more like Him grows meaning that I desire to turn away from sin.

Will I continue to sin? Yes, because I'm human. But I will not use that as an excuse to sin. Because I have accepted J.C. as my savior, I need to continue to strive to turn away from sin. I will fall, but if I get back up and go back to stiving to live a sinless life and do what God wants me to do then God will be pleased with me.

A relationship with God is a process. God wants to see us grow. He's not expecting us to be perfect (aka sinless) but he does expect us to strive each day to become better than what we were yesterday.

And let's remember that a sin is a sin. Therefore, if we want to grow closer with God, you must turn away from all sin to the best of your ability including lying, stealing, and fornication.

-Ebony
 
B

ballet_bun

Guest
I have a weird question ... please know this is not to stir up trouble either. Just wanted to say that first!

I have always wanted to ask a Christian this question: What about those who make the decision to not marry, but are in a committed relationship with someone, and choose to make love with their mate/lifePartner ... will they too go to hell in the eyes of other Christians and God? Marriage is not for everyone. So for those who are not interested in marriage, should they abstain ... in the eyes of God and The Bible. There's Oprah ... she's not married, but I would imagine she and Stedman must make love.

Ballet Bun ...
 

Premierepearl08

New Member
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JenJen2721 said:
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Supergirl said:
I see what you're saying Jen Jen,

but none of these scriptures says that God will strip you of your salvation if you sin. But the main point was to answer YuNg's question and no he won't be going to hell for pre-marital sex (and neither will anyone else)

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The scripture I listed in my post said that the sexual immoral will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Isn't fornication sexually immoral? What's the point of Jesus saving one from their sins if they continue to do them?


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@ JenJen: You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of the Word!
The posts that you put up in response to questions on the Word show equally divided Truth and I truly admire that!!
 

Premierepearl08

New Member
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ballet_bun said:
I have a weird question ... please know this is not to stir up trouble either. Just wanted to say that first!

I have always wanted to ask a Christian this question: What about those who make the decision to not marry, but are in a committed relationship with someone, and choose to make love with their mate/lifePartner ... will they too go to hell in the eyes of other Christians and God? Marriage is not for everyone. So for those who are not interested in marriage, should they abstain ... in the eyes of God and The Bible. There's Oprah ... she's not married, but I would imagine she and Stedman must make love.

Ballet Bun ...


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@ Ballet Bun - Girl, you are not stirring up trouble! You don't have to worry about that.
To answer your question very honestly, someone may make the decision not to marry and that's okay. It's your life to live as you please. That being said, to have sex, in *any* form, outside of the bonds of marriage is still a sin no matter how you slice it. The scriptures presented by Chyna Red and JenJen were very clear about God's view on that.If the Word of the living God, who created us all, said that people who commit fornication (sex outside of marriage) will *not* inherit the kingdom of God then they will not. That would include Oprah along with everyone else...no one is exempt.

Oprah has done some WONDERFUL things for people but that is not what guarantees someone eternal life. Someone said it earlier when they said no matter how society changes, God stays the same. God says that fornicators will not inherit the Kingdom. As one who chose to marry, sex is good but it ain't THAT good.
 

pebbles

New Member
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Premierepearl08 said:
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ballet_bun said:
I have a weird question ... please know this is not to stir up trouble either. Just wanted to say that first!

I have always wanted to ask a Christian this question: What about those who make the decision to not marry, but are in a committed relationship with someone, and choose to make love with their mate/lifePartner ... will they too go to hell in the eyes of other Christians and God? Marriage is not for everyone. So for those who are not interested in marriage, should they abstain ... in the eyes of God and The Bible. There's Oprah ... she's not married, but I would imagine she and Stedman must make love.

Ballet Bun ...


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@ Ballet Bun - Girl, you are not stirring up trouble! You don't have to worry about that.
To answer your question very honestly, someone may make the decision not to marry and that's okay. It's your life to live as you please. That being said, to have sex, in *any* form, outside of the bonds of marriage is still a sin no matter how you slice it. The scriptures presented by Chyna Red and JenJen were very clear about God's view on that.If the Word of the living God, who created us all, said that people who commit fornication (sex outside of marriage) will *not* inherit the kingdom of God then they will not. That would include Oprah along with everyone else...no one is exempt.

Oprah has done some WONDERFUL things for people but that is not what guarantees someone eternal life. Someone said it earlier when they said no matter how society changes, God stays the same. God says that fornicators will not inherit the Kingdom. As one who chose to marry, sex is good but it ain't THAT good.


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Well said, and I agree with you. Sex certainly isn't good enough to sin doing it and lose the Kingdom of God in the process!
 
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butterfly7

Active Member
I believe the key is surrendering yourself to Christ. The Bible says accepting Christ as your saviour is your salvation and that includes salvation from sin. Once you accept Christ as your saviour, and yes, that's all you have to do to become saved, you must surrender yourself to Him. That means giving yourself totally and completely, starting with your heart. Once you commit yourself as belonging to Him, your desires will change. I am not saying you will never sin again, but your desire will be to please God. Once your heart is lined up with the will of God, it will be difficult to sin. It will become more difficult to commit fornication than it is to NOT commit fornication. It is not the will of your own that prevents sin, it is the change that God makes in your life.
 

Premierepearl08

New Member
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butterfly7 said:
I believe the key is surrendering yourself to Christ. The Bible says accepting Christ as your saviour is your salvation and that includes salvation from sin. Once you accept Christ as your saviour, and yes, that's all you have to do to become saved, you must surrender yourself to Him. That means giving yourself totally and completely, starting with your heart. Once you commit yourself as belonging to Him, your desires will change. I am not saying you will never sin again, but your desire will be to please God. Once your heart is lined up with the will of God, it will be difficult to sin. It will become more difficult to commit fornication than it is to NOT commit fornication. It is not the will of your own that prevents sin, it is the change that God makes in your life.

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I couldn't have said it more beautifully than that! Simple and beautiful!!! I'm too long-winded to have summed it up like that! (Stopping before I go on a tangent)
 

Amour

Well-Known Member
wOw this was one of the best discussions I've read on LHCF... if anyone else has anything to add, I'd love to hear it :yep:
 

NinasLongAmbition

Well-Known Member
I think fornication is a sin...but we can be forgiven..Now constantly intentionally fornicating <thinking it's okay because I'll just ask for forgiveness afterwards> is a different story.....

"However, if we break up with that person, we are devastated because we have given him a part of ourselves that we can never get back. Once it occurs, for many women"
they go around trying to regain that void they now feel, and end up losing even more of themselves on what I call "false love."

We feel like that because of soul ties... we lose apart of our soul< our souls are tied> to everyone that we have intercourse with..and that it why it is sometimes so hard for us to "let go" afterwards... <I even had a prayer of deliverance to break soul ties>... which is probably why fornication is a sin because our souls should only be tied to our spouses because we are supposed to be as one.
Preach ! I completely agree..thats why I'm trying my best to keep my virginity , I am 20.
 

NinasLongAmbition

Well-Known Member
I think fornication is a sin...but we can be forgiven..Now constantly intentionally fornicating <thinking it's okay because I'll just ask for forgiveness afterwards> is a different story.....

"However, if we break up with that person, we are devastated because we have given him a part of ourselves that we can never get back. Once it occurs, for many women"
they go around trying to regain that void they now feel, and end up losing even more of themselves on what I call "false love."

We feel like that because of soul ties... we lose apart of our soul< our souls are tied> to everyone that we have intercourse with..and that it why it is sometimes so hard for us to "let go" afterwards... <I even had a prayer of deliverance to break soul ties>... which is probably why fornication is a sin because our souls should only be tied to our spouses because we are supposed to be as one.
Preach ! I completely agree..thats why I'm trying my best to keep my virginity , I am 20.
 
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