Should Women be Pastors?

metamorfhosis

New Member
Hello-

I am trying to understand this issue in the church. I attended a church where there was a female pastor but her husband was the Elder. I was a little torn because the Bible says that a woman should be "silent" in the church.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (New International Version)

34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.


So what do you all think about women being pastors?
 

PassionFruit

New Member
Women should NOT be pastors... they do NOT belong in the pulpit or as leaders over men in the church
They can evangelize & minister without violating any of that
 

PaperClip

New Member
I. AM. SUPPOSED. TO. BE. ON. HIATUS!!!!:wallbash::look:


Women can be pastors.

The Bible does not seem to support women being bishops.

The 1 Corinthians 14 reference has to be considered in CULTURAL context. The women were talking out loud, asking questions, ergo "If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home"....

I'm convinced that if the Lord would choose to use a WILLING woman before He uses a ROCK (Luke 19:40).

I'm convinced that if the Lord chose to use a DONKEY to speak His word, surely He would use a woman. (Numbers 22:21-41)
"28 Then God gave speech to the donkey. She said to Balaam: "What have I ever done to you that you have beat me these three times?"

What? According to this scripture, it was a FEMALE DONKEY!!!! WOW!!!!

I'm convinced that a woman can "carry" and "deliver" the Word of God. Mary did so (St. John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD!")

How many women do you know teach Sunday School? How about children's Sunday School? Is every child in the church female? Are there male children in Sunday School? Being taught by FEMALE TEACHERS?

Ironic.
Hypocritical.
Schizophrenic.

Ironic.
 

klb120475

New Member
I. AM. SUPPOSED. TO. BE. ON. HIATUS!!!!:wallbash::look:


Women can be pastors.

The Bible does not seem to support women being bishops.

The 1 Corinthians 14 reference has to be considered in CULTURAL context. The women were talking out loud, asking questions, ergo "If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home"....

I'm convinced that if the Lord would choose to use a WILLING woman before He uses a ROCK (Luke 19:40).

I'm convinced that if the Lord chose to use a DONKEY to speak His word, surely He would use a woman. (Numbers 22:21-41)
"28 Then God gave speech to the donkey. She said to Balaam: "What have I ever done to you that you have beat me these three times?"

What? According to this scripture, it was a FEMALE DONKEY!!!! WOW!!!!

I'm convinced that a woman can "carry" and "deliver" the Word of God. Mary did so (St. John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD!")

How many women do you know teach Sunday School? How about children's Sunday School? Is every child in the church female? Are there male children in Sunday School? Being taught by FEMALE TEACHERS?

Ironic.
Hypocritical.
Schizophrenic.

Ironic.
:lachen::lachen::lachen:
 

Nice & Wavy

Well-Known Member
I. AM. SUPPOSED. TO. BE. ON. HIATUS!!!!:wallbash::look:


Women can be pastors.

The Bible does not seem to support women being bishops.

The 1 Corinthians 14 reference has to be considered in CULTURAL context. The women were talking out loud, asking questions, ergo "If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home"....

I'm convinced that if the Lord would choose to use a WILLING woman before He uses a ROCK (Luke 19:40).

I'm convinced that if the Lord chose to use a DONKEY to speak His word, surely He would use a woman. (Numbers 22:21-41)
"28 Then God gave speech to the donkey. She said to Balaam: "What have I ever done to you that you have beat me these three times?"

What? According to this scripture, it was a FEMALE DONKEY!!!! WOW!!!!

I'm convinced that a woman can "carry" and "deliver" the Word of God. Mary did so (St. John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD!")

How many women do you know teach Sunday School? How about children's Sunday School? Is every child in the church female? Are there male children in Sunday School? Being taught by FEMALE TEACHERS?

Ironic.
Hypocritical.
Schizophrenic.

Ironic.

Thank you sister for answering this for me, a woman PASTOR!!!

luv ya!
 

PaperClip

New Member

You stop laughing at me, lachen!

:lachen:

Clarification: I WAS NOT calling the OP or her question ironic, hypocritical, or schizophrenic. I was directing that toward the old traditional establishment that continues to MISUSE the word to justify such oppressive mentalities.
 

Opalsunset

New Member
I. AM. SUPPOSED. TO. BE. ON. HIATUS!!!!:wallbash::look:


Women can be pastors.

The Bible does not seem to support women being bishops.

The 1 Corinthians 14 reference has to be considered in CULTURAL context. The women were talking out loud, asking questions, ergo "If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home"....

I'm convinced that if the Lord would choose to use a WILLING woman before He uses a ROCK (Luke 19:40).

I'm convinced that if the Lord chose to use a DONKEY to speak His word, surely He would use a woman. (Numbers 22:21-41)
"28 Then God gave speech to the donkey. She said to Balaam: "What have I ever done to you that you have beat me these three times?"

What? According to this scripture, it was a FEMALE DONKEY!!!! WOW!!!!

I'm convinced that a woman can "carry" and "deliver" the Word of God. Mary did so (St. John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD!")

How many women do you know teach Sunday School? How about children's Sunday School? Is every child in the church female? Are there male children in Sunday School? Being taught by FEMALE TEACHERS?

Ironic.
Hypocritical.
Schizophrenic.

Ironic.


Amen! I agree completely. My grandmother is a Minister. God called her over 50 years ago and she followed his voice.Im glad she and so many other women have in the name of the Lord.
 

Ms.Honey

New Member
The Lord never put any restrictions on women holding any position in the church neither did the Apostles or the early church. That's mess that crept in later. I think He does have them do it under the authority of their husbands though or another of their male authority. Paul referred to sisters as CO-laborers of the Gospel, equals. And in the O.T. Judges 4:4 the Lord made a woman ruler over Israel. "And DEBORAH, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, SHE judged Israel at that time." So doesn't it make since that if He would have a women be ruler over His people, the apple of His eye, a whole nation, that He wouldn't have a problem with one being a Pastor or Bishop or in any leadership position for that matter over a few folks in comparison?
As far as being silent in the church Paul clearly identifies what he's talking about. Stop talking during the service. If you have a question, if you've missed something that the preacher said don't ask during the message, wait and ask your husband when you get home. I don't know about at y'alls churches but I know at mine and some others I've attended the sisters are always trying to preach the service along with the Pastor:grin: and some have NO problem at all hollering from the pew to the pulpit asking the Pastor to repeat himself:lachen:I agree with Paul, it IS a shame, a cryin' shame:lachen:
 

kbragg

Well-Known Member
I'm very angry right now that I made a long reply to this and I timed out!!!:wallbash:

Reader's digest version, I don't know. Although the Corinthian scripture can be argued i.e. cultural context, 1 Timothy 2 is pretty plain. HOWEVER Paul addresses women leaders in the church in Colossians, Philipians, 2 Timothy, and travels with Pricilla & Aquilla (IMO co-pastors, I believe she was more than a preachers wife and perhaps even help a high position than him seeing as her name is always listed before his, but this is not factually provable).

So for now I think that the Bible DOES support women preaching the Word, but running the church i.e. in a Pastoral authoritive position, I dunno:ohwell:
 

PassionFruit

New Member
I'm very angry right now that I made a long reply to this and I timed out!!!:wallbash:

Reader's digest version, I don't know. Although the Corinthian scripture can be argued i.e. cultural context, 1 Timothy 2 is pretty plain. HOWEVER Paul addresses women leaders in the church in Colossians, Philipians, 2 Timothy, and travels with Pricilla & Aquilla (IMO co-pastors, I believe she was more than a preachers wife and perhaps even help a high position than him seeing as her name is always listed before his, but this is not factually provable).

So for now I think that the Bible DOES support women preaching the Word, but running the church i.e. in a Pastoral authoritive position, I dunno:ohwell:


pretty much sums up my feelings on the issue
 

2buttonsnow3

Well-Known Member
I'm very angry right now that I made a long reply to this and I timed out!!!:wallbash:

Reader's digest version, I don't know. Although the Corinthian scripture can be argued i.e. cultural context, 1 Timothy 2 is pretty plain. HOWEVER Paul addresses women leaders in the church in Colossians, Philipians, 2 Timothy, and travels with Pricilla & Aquilla (IMO co-pastors, I believe she was more than a preachers wife and perhaps even help a high position than him seeing as her name is always listed before his, but this is not factually provable).

So for now I think that the Bible DOES support women preaching the Word, but running the church i.e. in a Pastoral authoritive position, I dunno:ohwell:




I agree completely with the bolded.
 

Ms.Honey

New Member
The Greek word for woman in 1Tim 2:11 and 1Cor 14:34-35 is gune which specifically means a wife. The scriptures are the same. Paul is saying that a wife should not continuously ask her husband what's going on or try to explain it to him but to be quiet during the service. If she wants to know what she missed let her ask him when they get home. We have to keep the verse in context. He is obviously addressing a situation where a wife is talking to her husband during service and interupting it. He is not giving an example of a wife who is preaching a sermon. He is addressing a wife trying to LEARN something DURING the service.
 

Nice & Wavy

Well-Known Member
The Greek word for woman in 1Tim 2:11 and 1Cor 14:34-35 is gune which specifically means a wife. The scriptures are the same. Paul is saying that a wife should not continuously ask her husband what's going on or try to explain it to him but to be quiet during the service. If she wants to know what she missed let her ask him when they get home. We have to keep the verse in context. He is obviously addressing a situation where a wife is talking to her husband during service and interupting it. He is not giving an example of a wife who is preaching a sermon. He is addressing a wife trying to LEARN something DURING the service.

Thank you, MsHoney!

Sometimes, I wonder:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

klb120475

New Member
The Lord never put any restrictions on women holding any position in the church neither did the Apostles or the early church. That's mess that crept in later. I think He does have them do it under the authority of their husbands though or another of their male authority. Paul referred to sisters as CO-laborers of the Gospel, equals. And in the O.T. Judges 4:4 the Lord made a woman ruler over Israel. "And DEBORAH, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, SHE judged Israel at that time." So doesn't it make since that if He would have a women be ruler over His people, the apple of His eye, a whole nation, that He wouldn't have a problem with one being a Pastor or Bishop or in any leadership position for that matter over a few folks in comparison?
As far as being silent in the church Paul clearly identifies what he's talking about. Stop talking during the service. If you have a question, if you've missed something that the preacher said don't ask during the message, wait and ask your husband when you get home. I don't know about at y'alls churches but I know at mine and some others I've attended the sisters are always trying to preach the service along with the Pastor:grin: and some have NO problem at all hollering from the pew to the pulpit asking the Pastor to repeat himself:lachen:I agree with Paul, it IS a shame, a cryin' shame:lachen:

:lachen::lachen::lachen:
 

PassionFruit

New Member
I don't know about at y'alls churches but I know at mine and some others I've attended the sisters are always trying to preach the service along with the Pastor:grin: and some have NO problem at all hollering from the pew to the pulpit asking the Pastor to repeat himself:lachen:I agree with Paul, it IS a shame, a cryin' shame:lachen:

we have a woman who literally repeats every word the pastor says, LOUDLY no matter if he is preaching, teaching or praying

Pastor: And Paul Said...

Lady: AND PAUL SAID..

Pastor: Let us Bow our heads...

Lady: LET US BOW OUR HEADS...


she isnt slow, senile or anything of the sort... just LOUD and IMO, disrespectful to the others she is distracting....
 

PaperClip

New Member
The Greek word for woman in 1Tim 2:11 and 1Cor 14:34-35 is gune which specifically means a wife. The scriptures are the same. Paul is saying that a wife should not continuously ask her husband what's going on or try to explain it to him but to be quiet during the service. If she wants to know what she missed let her ask him when they get home. We have to keep the verse in context. He is obviously addressing a situation where a wife is talking to her husband during service and interupting it. He is not giving an example of a wife who is preaching a sermon. He is addressing a wife trying to LEARN something DURING the service.

Yes. I agree and concur with this.... ergo my question:

who am I supposed to ask my questions to at home? As a single woman? I have LOTS and LOTS and LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of questions....

Sigh....:look::crybaby::look:

I'm ok....:look:
 

klb120475

New Member
we have a woman who literally repeats every word the pastor says, LOUDLY no matter if he is preaching, teaching or praying

Pastor: And Paul Said...

Lady: AND PAUL SAID..

Pastor: Let us Bow our heads...

Lady: LET US BOW OUR HEADS...


she isnt slow, senile or anything of the sort... just LOUD and IMO, disrespectful to the others she is distracting....
:lachen::lachen::lachen:
 

PaperClip

New Member
1 Tim 2:12-15
Based on God's word, the answer to the op's question is, no.

RR speaking here: As I believe that the Lord allows women to pastor, I also believe that they are to have a MALE COVERING, be it their husband or spiritual authority that they come under, most likely a bishop.

From browsing this commentary, it appears that such restriction was put on the SOME of the women in this particular church because they were being DISORDERLY. OUT OF ORDER... WRONGFULLY USURPING AUTHORITY. A woman can pastor in PROPER ORDER, as she willfully comes under the authority of her covering, e.g., her husband or other appropriate spiritual authority.

Entire commentary at this link: http://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...etCommentaryText&cid=10&source=1&seq=i.61.2.3


The woman-man relationship in the worship service (2:11-15). Today, among those who take the Bible seriously, two main positions have emerged in the discussion of this passage and its implications. As the following brief outline of each position will show, the passage needs to be considered as a whole, for the instructions of verses 11-12 (and also vv. 9-10) are grounded in some way by verses 13-15.
One position (here called position 1) generally maintains that verses 11-12 prohibit women from teaching and holding authority over men. Within the worship setting their appropriate role is that of the learner. Women will be quiet during the teaching portion of the service--that is, they will not teach or question. And they will be fully submissive to men's authority. Furthermore, on the basis of the Genesis material in verses 13-14, the arrangement sanctioned by Paul is held to be permanent. Verse 13 grounds the subordinate position of the woman in the order of creation, the man having been created first. The allusion to Eve's deception in verse 14 presents an illustration of the negative consequences that result when the divinely willed structure is disturbed. In one way or another verse 15 then refers positively to the acceptable role of women.

The second position (which I shall call position 2) insists that the passage contains a temporary restraining order issued to curb the activities of a group of women who (most argue) were teaching the heresy in Ephesus. Thus the relegation of women to the role of learners, who must be quiet and submissive to the imposed (male) authority structure, represents a local rather than a universal rule. Similarly, the prohibition from teaching in verse 12 was a stopgap measure, and the reference to holding authority over a man is better understood as "wrongfully usurping" his authority. As far as Paul's use of Genesis goes, verse 14 provides an example or explanation, showing how just as the deception of Eve had drastic results, so also did the deception of some women in Ephesus. Verse 13 is somewhat problematic for this position.



Teach and have authority over a man (v. 12) may be references to separate activities that Paul restricted to men. Or the first term might represent a specific example of activity that falls under the general rule that follows: women's teaching in the public assembly would violate the given authority structure. In either case, we should notice that Paul did not employ his usual term for "the normal exercise of authority" (exousia). He chose an unusual word (authenteo) that could carry negative connotations such as "to usurp or misappropriate authority" or "to domineer." The unusual term probably signifies an unusual situation. In the Ephesian context at least, women had misappropriated authority by taking upon themselves the role of teacher.
Thus verses 11-12 aim to restore peace in the worship service by placing certain limits on the role of women. Probably as a result of the influence of the false teaching, some women had assumed the role of teacher. This step led Paul to invoke a subordination rule; it seems to have precluded women from teaching men, since to do so constituted authenteo--that is, the wrongful appropriation of authority over men.
 

kbragg

Well-Known Member
RR speaking here: As I believe that the Lord allows women to pastor, I also believe that they are to have a MALE COVERING, be it their husband or spiritual authority that they come under, most likely a bishop.

From browsing this commentary, it appears that such restriction was put on the SOME of the women in this particular church because they were being DISORDERLY. OUT OF ORDER... WRONGFULLY USURPING AUTHORITY. A woman can pastor in PROPER ORDER, as she willfully comes under the authority of her covering, e.g., her husband or other appropriate spiritual authority.

Entire commentary at this link: http://www.biblegateway.com/resourc...etCommentaryText&cid=10&source=1&seq=i.61.2.3


The woman-man relationship in the worship service (2:11-15). Today, among those who take the Bible seriously, two main positions have emerged in the discussion of this passage and its implications. As the following brief outline of each position will show, the passage needs to be considered as a whole, for the instructions of verses 11-12 (and also vv. 9-10) are grounded in some way by verses 13-15.
One position (here called position 1) generally maintains that verses 11-12 prohibit women from teaching and holding authority over men. Within the worship setting their appropriate role is that of the learner. Women will be quiet during the teaching portion of the service--that is, they will not teach or question. And they will be fully submissive to men's authority. Furthermore, on the basis of the Genesis material in verses 13-14, the arrangement sanctioned by Paul is held to be permanent. Verse 13 grounds the subordinate position of the woman in the order of creation, the man having been created first. The allusion to Eve's deception in verse 14 presents an illustration of the negative consequences that result when the divinely willed structure is disturbed. In one way or another verse 15 then refers positively to the acceptable role of women.

The second position (which I shall call position 2) insists that the passage contains a temporary restraining order issued to curb the activities of a group of women who (most argue) were teaching the heresy in Ephesus. Thus the relegation of women to the role of learners, who must be quiet and submissive to the imposed (male) authority structure, represents a local rather than a universal rule. Similarly, the prohibition from teaching in verse 12 was a stopgap measure, and the reference to holding authority over a man is better understood as "wrongfully usurping" his authority. As far as Paul's use of Genesis goes, verse 14 provides an example or explanation, showing how just as the deception of Eve had drastic results, so also did the deception of some women in Ephesus. Verse 13 is somewhat problematic for this position.



Teach and have authority over a man (v. 12) may be references to separate activities that Paul restricted to men. Or the first term might represent a specific example of activity that falls under the general rule that follows: women's teaching in the public assembly would violate the given authority structure. In either case, we should notice that Paul did not employ his usual term for "the normal exercise of authority" (exousia). He chose an unusual word (authenteo) that could carry negative connotations such as "to usurp or misappropriate authority" or "to domineer." The unusual term probably signifies an unusual situation. In the Ephesian context at least, women had misappropriated authority by taking upon themselves the role of teacher.
Thus verses 11-12 aim to restore peace in the worship service by placing certain limits on the role of women. Probably as a result of the influence of the false teaching, some women had assumed the role of teacher. This step led Paul to invoke a subordination rule; it seems to have precluded women from teaching men, since to do so constituted authenteo--that is, the wrongful appropriation of authority over men.

I'm glad you came out of your hiatus to post this:grin: This is a very balanced viewpoint:yep: You have one side saying that women can't do anything, and then the other side where domineering women run everything with not a male leader anywhere in sight. It's enough to make you crazy!:spinning:

I love your balanced viewpoint as this is a sensative topic that we (women) tend to get very emotional about i.e. if anyone were to say anything about a woman not teaching, having ultimate authority etc. the opposite side tends to take it as them saying "a women can't do anything for God because she doesn't have a penis.":lol: You have one side that totally ignores and disregards the scriptures that speak against a woman having ultimate authority, and then the other side that blows off all the women mentioned by Paul, John, Luke, & Peter in the Apostolic letters...where's the love people!
 

PaperClip

New Member
I'm glad you came out of your hiatus to post this:grin: This is a very balanced viewpoint:yep: You have one side saying that women can't do anything, and then the other side where domineering women run everything with not a male leader anywhere in sight. It's enough to make you crazy!:spinning:

I love your balanced viewpoint as this is a sensative topic that we (women) tend to get very emotional about i.e. if anyone were to say anything about a woman not teaching, having ultimate authority etc. the opposite side tends to take it as them saying "a women can't do anything for God because she doesn't have a penis.":lol: You have one side that totally ignores and disregards the scriptures that speak against a woman having ultimate authority, and then the other side that blows off all the women mentioned by Paul, John, Luke, & Peter in the Apostolic letters...where's the love people!

Hey, Kbragg: I think my hiatus is a JOKE!!!!:lachen:

For me, this issue pretty well settled. I know too much to believe otherwise. I've seen too much to believe otherwise. I know the call and chosen assignment upon MY OWN LIFE that I CANNOT DENY.

Can't NOBODY tell me that the Lord would choose a ROCK over me as a human being, the creation made in HIS OWN IMAGE! I already got the vocal chords, for example, whereas the rock does not. Sure, the Lord can use ANYTHING, ANYBODY, at ANYTIME to declare His Word. And that ALSO INCLUDES ME in this FEMALE TEMPLE.

It's TOO LATE to convince me otherwise. TOOOOOO LATE!
 

Ms.Honey

New Member
we have a woman who literally repeats every word the pastor says, LOUDLY no matter if he is preaching, teaching or praying

Pastor: And Paul Said...

Lady: AND PAUL SAID..

Pastor: Let us Bow our heads...

Lady: LET US BOW OUR HEADS...


she isnt slow, senile or anything of the sort... just LOUD and IMO, disrespectful to the others she is distracting....
And WHY are they always up front. They'd be at the pulpit standing beside him if they could:lachen:And WHY do they always get to church three hours early and attend both services:lachen::lachen:They're sweethearts though, just a little off:grin:
 

Ms.Honey

New Member
Yes. I agree and concur with this.... ergo my question:

who am I supposed to ask my questions to at home? As a single woman? I have LOTS and LOTS and LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of questions....

Sigh....:look::crybaby::look:

I'm ok....:look:
You can ask whoever God set over you as your authority. It doesn't have to be someone who lives in the same house as you. Don't fret. God would never leave you without help:yep:
 

divya

Well-Known Member
This will be an interesting topic.

The Greek word for woman in 1Tim 2:11 and 1Cor 14:34-35 is gune which specifically means a wife. The scriptures are the same. Paul is saying that a wife should not continuously ask her husband what's going on or try to explain it to him but to be quiet during the service. If she wants to know what she missed let her ask him when they get home. We have to keep the verse in context. He is obviously addressing a situation where a wife is talking to her husband during service and interupting it. He is not giving an example of a wife who is preaching a sermon. He is addressing a wife trying to LEARN something DURING the service.

Very true. From my understanding, in the old days of the church (even now in some cultures), men and women also did not sit together. Imagine how chaotic it might become if you have people carrying on conversation when they have substantial distance from each other. So it was an issue of order during the service.

That being said. I do not believe women should be pastors. Like our role in the home, we have a specific role in the church. We are to be active in the ministry - teaching and preaching the gospel. However, the role of a pastor extends beyond these things, and the Bible seems to lend support to the man alone for this role.
 
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