This issue is REALLY BOTHERING ME! Spiritually mature contributors only...

[PaperClip]

Issue: equal yoking in marriage, specifically both people being baptized and Holy Spirit filled (speaking in tongues).

Situation: I know of a couple (I've known the female for decades). She's been going together with this guy for a couple of years (honorably, meaning, no sex before marriage; both attend the same church). Both have been married before so understandable they took it slow. They get engaged. A serious situation pops up of a financial nature where trust is questioned. This causes a major issue.

I'm in the conversation with the female and we're talking and whatever she says (I don't fully recall but something about issues from his past relationship) prompts me to ask: Does he have the Holy Spirit? Has he been baptized?

This situation is bothersome on a couple of levels:

1) why would my sisterfriend even consider marrying this man even though he does not speak in tongues/been baptized? (Note: I have not gotten the courage to ask her this question yet. Also, he's a really nice guy and he is already better than her exes.)

2) How to know if it will work out if I choose to marry a man who has not been water and spirit baptized? (Note: my parents have been married going on 42 years on January 24. My mom grew up in church and saved but not my dad...in fact, he JUST got water baptized a couple of years ago.)

3). (Sorta rhetorical): WHY do I have to WAIT?!?!?!?!? What's stopping me from just going ahead and avoid considering the equal yoking piece in terms of the infilling of the Holy Spirit? Other people are doing it and it's working out for them.... Sigh.... esp. as I am in an age bracket where marriage is... well... sigh....

What's the wisdom here?

 

[aribell]

Hmm...I would say that while being equally yoked is a biblical command that we must not violate, speaking in tongues should not be the litmus test of whether a believer has been filled with the Holy Spirit. I understand that oneness Pentecostal, as well as some other traditions, hold tongues as the sign of the infilling of the Spirit; but in Corinthians the Apostle Paul speaks of tongues as a spiritual gift given to some, but not all. Some prophesy, some speak in tongues, some interpret, etc. Your question isn't about denominational quarrels, so I'll leave it there. But that key difference in interpretation might be a reason that you aren't seeing where your friend is coming from and why she may or may not understand your concern--since most Christian denominations don't hold that view.

We know a person by their fruits. If they have confessed Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead, then Romans tells us that they are saved (10:9). And then we look for the fruits of the Spirit shown in Galatians (ch. 6) to be manifested in their life, as well as a growing relationship with God and a desire and willingness to submit their life to His commands.

As far as water baptism is concerned, if this man has not been baptized, if I were the woman I would find out why. It's odd that a serious Christian who regularly attends church would choose not to be baptized and does raise questions about their level of dedication. I do know of serious Christians who for one reason or another were not actually baptized until later in life. But the biblical picture shows us that baptism should follow a confession of faith.

As far as why you and the rest of us should hold out for the Lord's standard, I know of agnostics and atheists who have happy marriages and relationships, and sometimes it really can seem, well, perhaps unfair...since we spend all these years holding out for that which is of the Lord. But know that the Lord knows your obedience and He will reward you for it. And ultimately, anyone who does not follow the Lord in obedience will suffer for it. As Psalm 37 says:

Psalm 37
Of David.
1 [a] Do not fret because of evil men
or be envious of those who do wrong;
2 for like the grass they will soon wither,
like green plants they will soon die away.

3 Trust in the LORD and do good;
dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.

4 Delight yourself in the LORD
and he will give you the desires of your heart.

5 Commit your way to the LORD;
trust in him and he will do this:

6 He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn,
the justice of your cause like the noonday sun.

7 Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when men succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.

8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret—it leads only to evil.

9 For evil men will be cut off,
but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.


So, the Lord has not forgotten you or your patience, your obedience, your labor of love towards Him. He knows you, loves you, and has a plan for you that cannot be revoked. And even if less obedient individuals are happy in their relationships, there are some blessings that only come through obedience and faith. You know and seek the Lord on a level that reaps fruit in your spirit that others do not know or experience. Keep drawing near to the Lord and He will draw even nearer to you.

 

[Irresistible]

Sounds like your Apostolic

I mean a question like this for anyone that isnt is like walking onto treacherous ground

 

[PaperClip]

Sounds like your Apostolic

I mean a question like this for anyone that isnt is like walking onto treacherous ground

You think so? I certainly was not looking for a doctrinal argument 'cause I know where I stand and live concerning the infilling of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 1 and 2. And this wouldn't be an issue if my friend was of a different doctrinal persuasion. I know for sure that her church believes the same re. the Holy Spirit's infilling...no disagreement re. interpretation on the matter.

As Nicole eventually concluded, this isn't a doctrinal/denominational issue.

I am considering whether or not to probe more deeply about it, although my initial question to her about it has signaled to her (I hope) gave her food for thought about it. We're close but I don't get into her business concerning her relationships. She's smart and headstrong and she will do what she wants to do and I'll support her regardless.

I suppose that I was surprised to hear that he had not been baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit....

(fingersnap!) I just remembered what I first asked her that prompted me to ask about the baptisms: I said: "Do you all pray together?" Then I asked about the Holy Spirit....

I say again: this thread was not about the doctrinal aspects of speaking in tongues. There's an extensive thread on it that occurred recently.

This thread is more about the process in which Bible-believing/honoring Christian women make choices about marriage partners.

 

[TrustMeLove]

1) Eventhough your friends church may believe the same thing doesn't mean she necessarily believes it as well. I have belonged to a church that believe this same way, but after seeking God's face about it I didn't.

I know of two couples were the husbands were believers, but once they were married the husbands stepped up to a whole new level of Priest, Provider, Prophet, and Protector.

For them the men were already in some space what they were looking for and after prayer God's seal made it official. Then once they were married things just went to an unexpected level.

I know women in the church, on praise team, evangelizing etc...who were fornicating (during the engagement) with the men they eventually married. When it all came out in our conversations of course it came to mind...WHy would a woman who knows better be involved in something like this?

2) You will know whether or not you are suppose to make the same move when the time comes. We all have different expectations and qualifications for a reason. I think it is to make sure we zone in on the man for us and only us. I know folks who could date non believers ...I always said I couldn't. And I had been tempted by the situation on multiple occassions and my resounding response was a HECK NO! I was in the situation and made the decision.

3) And Nicola answered this one to a T. Well she answered all of them to a T. But, I have nothing to add here. Well for now.

 

[PaperClip]

1) Eventhough your friends church may believe the same thing doesn't mean she necessarily believes it as well. I have belonged to a church that believe this same way, but after seeking God's face about it I didn't.

I know of two couples were the husbands were believers, but once they were married the husbands stepped up to a whole new level of Priest, Provider, Prophet, and Protector.

For them the men were already in some space what they were looking for and after prayer God's seal made it official. Then once they were married things just went to an unexpected level.

I know women in the church, on praise team, evangelizing etc...who were fornicating (during the engagement) with the men they eventually married. When it all came out in our conversations of course it came to mind...WHy would a woman who knows better be involved in something like this?

2) You will know whether or not you are suppose to make the same move when the time comes. We all have different expectations and qualifications for a reason. I think it is to make sure we zone in on the man for us and only us. I know folks who could date non believers ...I always said I couldn't. And I had been tempted by the situation on multiple occassions and my resounding response was a HECK NO! I was in the situation and made the decision.

3) And Nicola answered this one to a T. Well she answered all of them to a T. But, I have nothing to add here. Well for now.

First bolded: I sincerely believe that, based on time, conversations, visiting her church more than once, that we (my sisfriend and I) have the same viewpoint on the matter of tongues. If she were to tell me something else right now, I would be surprised. I suppose her viewpoint could have changed on the matter, but as for now I'm concluding that we share the same viewpoint.

Second bolded: captures my question efficiently and it could be about any issue, e.g., WHy would a woman who knows better (about ***insert issue here***) be involved in something like this?

 

[HWAY]

You answered your own questions in the first post. Your friend is older, sees what she wants and does not wish to be alone.

I married an unbeliever at age 35. He is a good man and is baptized now, but during the first 2 years, it was difficult. When I met him, I had been a member of a controlling religion for over 10 years, and was tired of being celibate and unwilling to be alone any longer.

I am not advocating you follow my example. Being unevenly yoked causes heartache. I believe our marriage survived because we are friends first and lovers second.

 

[Irresistible]

You think so? I certainly was not looking for a doctrinal argument 'cause I know where I stand and live concerning the infilling of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 1 and 2. And this wouldn't be an issue if my friend was of a different doctrinal persuasion. I know for sure that her church believes the same re. the Holy Spirit's infilling...no disagreement re. interpretation on the matter.

As Nicole eventually concluded, this isn't a doctrinal/denominational issue.

I am considering whether or not to probe more deeply about it, although my initial question to her about it has signaled to her (I hope) gave her food for thought about it. We're close but I don't get into her business concerning her relationships. She's smart and headstrong and she will do what she wants to do and I'll support her regardless.

I suppose that I was surprised to hear that he had not been baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit....

(fingersnap!) I just remembered what I first asked her that prompted me to ask about the baptisms: I said: "Do you all pray together?" Then I asked about the Holy Spirit....

I say again: this thread was not about the doctrinal aspects of speaking in tongues. There's an extensive thread on it that occurred recently.

This thread is more about the process in which Bible-believing/honoring Christian women make choices about marriage partners.

Sorry I more just meant that if you already have your beliefs on the subject of speaking in tongues as the only evidence of the holy spirit, then from my experience, it would be hard to answer your question as to why she would marry him, when you already believe what you believe

but your right, someone had the wisdom for the answer

when I first posted, I just didnt feel I personally could find a way to answer it when your already coming from your beliefs

tis all

love ya

 

[PaperClip]

Sorry I more just meant that if you already have your beliefs on the subject of speaking in tongues as the only evidence of the holy spirit, then from my experience, it would be hard to answer your question as to why she would marry him, when you already believe what you believe

but your right, someone had the wisdom for the answer

when I first posted, I just didnt feel I personally could find a way to answer it when your already coming from your beliefs

tis all

love ya

No harm, no foul.

What TML said here captures the heart of my inquiry so as you're so inclined, please share!

WHy would a woman who knows better be involved in something like this?

And the follow up question for me/to myself is this: What's stopping me or what would prevent me from making a similar choice?

HWAY's post begins to fill in the gap on my follow up question already.

 

[Irresistible]

No harm, no foul.

What TML said here captures the heart of my inquiry so as you're so inclined, please share!

WHy would a woman who knows better be involved in something like this?

And the follow up question for me/to myself is this: What's stopping me or what would prevent me from making a similar choice?

HWAY's post begins to fill in the gap on my follow up question already.

Because we can walk the path long and strong and we can all fall, because we are human and we all want, desire and crave love, because we all can justify and get God on 'our' page, because we believe he is in it becaue it seems/feels right, because its all in his plan and purpose anyway , and its hard to figure everything out and get it all right

but mostly because we all want to love and be loved

and that ends up overiding things it shouldnt , or at times 'seems' like it shouldnt but ends up just as it should, because God is still and always able to work out all things for our Good

and if a man comes a long that LOVES you and LOVES GOD and you feel lead and he dont speak a lick of tongues, you better open your heart to LOVE, AND thats an order! if your doubtful and agonizing in your spirit over missing God or taking the wrong turn, just remember he is with you wherever you go and just 1 prayer away and we all know there is no delay in him hearing you

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Issue: equal yoking in marriage, specifically both people being baptized and Holy Spirit filled (speaking in tongues).

Situation: I know of a couple (I've known the female for decades). She's been going together with this guy for a couple of years (honorably, meaning, no sex before marriage; both attend the same church). Both have been married before so understandable they took it slow. They get engaged. A serious situation pops up of a financial nature where trust is questioned. This causes a major issue.

I'm in the conversation with the female and we're talking and whatever she says (I don't fully recall but something about issues from his past relationship) prompts me to ask: Does he have the Holy Spirit? Has he been baptized?

BTW, I hope and pray you find the one who possesses the qualities you desire in a man. I think people sacrifice due to will and perhaps fear but we don't have to. May he come speedily!

This situation is bothersome on a couple of levels:

1) why would my sisterfriend even consider marrying this man even though he does not speak in tongues/been baptized? (Note: I have not gotten the courage to ask her this question yet. Also, he's a really nice guy and he is already better than her exes.)

2) How to know if it will work out if I choose to marry a man who has not been water and spirit baptized? (Note: my parents have been married going on 42 years on January 24. My mom grew up in church and saved but not my dad...in fact, he JUST got water baptized a couple of years ago.)

3). (Sorta rhetorical): WHY do I have to WAIT?!?!?!?!? What's stopping me from just going ahead and avoid considering the equal yoking piece in terms of the infilling of the Holy Spirit? Other people are doing it and it's working out for them.... Sigh.... esp. as I am in an age bracket where marriage is... well... sigh....

What's the wisdom here?

In this day and age, you and they are wise to consider all the factors in a coming marriage. Maybe being equally yoked refers to their allegiance, as it were, to G-d and not all the extras that not everyone has acquired (yet)? I won't get into the issue of glossolalia and my personal beliefs about it (L-rd knows that discussion was something else) but I'd think that having a personal relationship with G-d would be enough to start with...of course, that he's actually a good guy evidenced by his qualities.

Does she have a problem with his not speaking in tongues? Does their current church promote it or perhaps the one in her upbringing? I'd probably weigh it more on whether they are mature and possess good qualities for marriage over the speaking in tongues. I know many good christian people who do not do it. Shrugs.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

WHy would a woman who knows better be involved in something like this?

She no longer believes it's necessary? Or she's willing to sacrifice some of her beliefs to be with the man she loves?

 

[PaperClip]

In this day and age, you and they are wise to consider all the factors in a coming marriage. Maybe being equally yoked refers to their allegiance, as it were, to G-d and not all the extras that not everyone has acquired (yet)? I won't get into the issue of glossolalia and my personal beliefs about it (L-rd knows that discussion was something else) but I'd think that having a personal relationship with G-d would be enough to start with...of course, that he's actually a good guy evidenced by his qualities.

Does she have a problem with his not speaking in tongues? Does their current church promote it or perhaps the one in her upbringing? I'd probably weigh it more on whether they are mature and possess good qualities for marriage over the speaking in tongues. I know many good christian people who do not do it. Shrugs.

Yes, he's a good brother. The reason I asked about the prayer/tongues was because of some things that were said that prompted me to ask about his relationship with the Lord... some struggles he had been dealing with and I was making the point that maybe the struggles could be better overcome with the pursuit of a deeper relationship....

Kinda OT/Possible spinoff: even though we all go through stuff as spiritual people/in relationship with the Lord, I'm sure we all know people who seem to be at peace/have a better grip on life, reflecting their discipline to maintain an intimate relationship with the Lord, yes?

She no longer believes it's necessary? Or she's willing to sacrifice some of her beliefs to be with the man she loves?

Honestly, I don't know if she has a problem with him not speaking in tongues. Well, now that I think about it, one of her spiritual mentors (who also knows her fiance) advised her to be patient with him concerning the things he has been dealing with.... And then on another level, I don't think she shares as much with me, maybe because I'm not married (yet) and she's been married before and maybe she's a bit embarrassed about some things and she didn't want to share...and I can honestly say that I'm not intrusive with her. She's a strong personality to the point that she has NO PROBLEM saying "enough" just like I have no problem asking about it. But when I asked and based on the answer I got, I left it alone.

I think the issue had bothered me because 1) I want her to be happy and I don't want her to get into a situation that's not spiritually or naturally healthy for her; and 2) I did wonder about myself re. the question that you noted above:

WHy would a woman who knows better be involved in something like this?

E.g.: Why/How would FoxyScholar, who knows better, be involved in ______________ like this?

 

[Irresistible]

With situations like this you never know God might be working out something greater than the eyes can see

its hard to know what two people share to call it

Even some ministers in the church, or people that love God and are walking in their calling and even have many fruits of the spirit can still have something so ugly in them that it puts someone totally off

meanwhile, somewhat slightly less zealous about the LORD might have a wonderful heart and shower you with LOVE and be very loving


It happens

pls believe

God sees the end from the beginning with all of us, things we can never see or know