Who believes that NO ONE IS SAVED yet?

[Poohbear]

I was reading this article on Going to Jesus.com and it makes a lot of sense regarding the whole notion of salvation. This sentence stuck out to me the most:

...salvation is the future reward for faithful saints and that God's children should strive to be found worthy to receive it (Lk. 13:24)...

Here is the rest of the article:

Salvation & Conversion
Are you saved? Is it the same thing as conversion? Many are asked that question as if the two things are the same! No one in the Bible ever spoke of the day that they "got saved" as so many people do in this time. What does the Bible say about the subjects of salvation and being saved?

Jesus said that he who endures to the end will be saved. Paul wrote of the "hope of salvation" and Peter spoke of salvation being the end of our faith to be revealed in the latter time. What is the truth? Are you already saved, or not?

Study this page to learn the truth about Salvation. There are also audio clips taken from the What Must I Do to be Saved CD teaching series. Click on an article title in the box in the right column to read from a range of articles covering different aspects of the truth about salvation.

Gospel Tract
What is Salvation?
by John David Clark, Sr.

"And when he was gone forth in the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do, that I may inherit eternal life?

And he said to him, If you would enter into life, keep the commandments." (Mk. 10:17; Mt. 19:17)

Our language is a "living language", and as such, it is constantly changing. Some words are becoming obsolete, while new words are continually being added. This is a normal process, but there are some unfortunate victims. For example, "gay" once meant "light-hearted and joyous"; now, however, gay is most often used as a synonym for "homosexual". This is a tragic loss to our language, for there is no single word which can adequately replace "gay" as it once was used.

A biblical word whose meaning has been recently changed is "saved". In the 20th century, Christians altered its meaning so that "saved" is most often used now to mean "converted". But it is not so used in the Scriptures.

When Jesus said, "He who endures to the end shall be saved", was he saying that he who endures to the end shall be converted? Of course not. Or when Paul wrote, "Now is our salvation nearer than when we believed", was he saying that our conversion is nearer than when we believed? Of course not. The clear meaning of both these statements is that salvation is the future reward for faithful saints and that God's children should strive to be found worthy to receive it (Lk. 13:24).

Who, then, first altered the definition of salvation to mean "conversion"? I do not know. But I do know that it is a definition foreign to the Scriptures and that it is non-biblical to claim that we are "saved" merely because we are converted to Christ.

So often, we tend to accept life as it is handed to us, and sometimes we are not harmed by doing so. But to receive without question religious doctrines handed to us is extremely dangerous to our spiritual health. Isn't it revealing, concerning our priorities, that none of us would tolerate a dirty dish in a restaurant, yet so few have diligently searched the Scriptures to ascertain the cleanliness of the doctrines they are taught?

Eating from a dirty spiritual dish is what happened in the early 20th century when believers blindly received Christianity's new definition for salvation. It is astonishing that so few seem to have noticed that this modern usage of the word "saved" differs significantly from its biblical usage. Biblically speaking, conversion is available now in Christ for all who repent of their sins; salvation, however, is the final reward promised to converts if they are faithful to Christ after their conversion (Heb. 5:8-9). Conversion and salvation are not the same experience! Conversion begins our earthly walk with Christ, and salvation ends it.

Most frequently, salvation is referred to in the New Testament as a future hope, not as a past or present experience. Sometimes, "saved" is used in the present tense with the meaning of "healed" or "rescued", but the notion among many modern Christians that a believer already has salvation simply because he believes in Jesus is foreign to the Bible. Salvation is glorification with Christ, and none of us has received that yet.

When the rich young ruler asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus responded, "If you would enter into life, keep the commandments" (Mt. 19:17). Please notice that according to the Lord Jesus, the way to salvation is the way of obedience to the commandments of God! Why else would Jesus point the wealthy young man to the commandments of God as the answer to his question? My dear friends, as much as our carnal nature would love to have it so, there is no formula, no ceremony, no single event or confession that can save anyone.

Jesus warned us not to believe that a mere confession of faith in him will save us. He said, "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." Nor will merely knowing what is right save us, for "not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law will be justified" (Rom. 2:13). Nor should we think that the presence of spiritual gifts will save us, for the Lord said, "Many will say in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?' And then I will profess to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'"

There is no way around it - we must do the will of God if we hope to be saved in the end. Without a life of holiness, "no man will see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14). The truth is never more complicated than that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is there anyone here that believes this? If so, please share your thoughts.

If you don't believe that salvation is a future reward, why not? Do you believe you are saved at the first time you believe in Christ?

 

[Guitarhero]

MEEEEEE! I so agree with this. You ain't saved until you are saved and crossed to the other side. That's where perseverance comes in. I truly comprehend the faith now...all that humility of believers, particularly older folks who are traditionally raised. Just that it's always via mercy and I realize that my hand never directs that.

 

[Poohbear]

MEEEEEE! I so agree with this. You ain't saved until you are saved and crossed to the other side. That's where perseverance comes in. I truly comprehend the faith now...all that humility of believers, particularly older folks who are traditionally raised. Just that it's always via mercy and I realize that my hand never directs that.

Thanks Volver Alma Gitana! I'm starting to believe this too. This has helped with some of the confusion I have been going through. I've been taught this "once saved always saved" doctrine and you are saved once you go up in front of the "church" and answer those three questions (Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? Died on the cross for your sins? Rose on the 3rd day with all power in His hands?) from the Baptist preacher and get baptized in water. Then you are considered a sinner saved by grace and that you can confess your sins to God and he'll just forgive you over and over. But after awhile, it started to not make any sense because of the whole notion of sin. You can't claim salvation while sinning like hell all day long. After reading this article, it was like a big light switch went on in my head.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I dont believe this concept.

 

[Aviah]

I'm not sure what I think about this, but it actually doesn't matter in a sense. We will all see in the end, and so long as we are living as right as possible in God, it doesn't make a difference (not to be rude, but obviously this is IMO).

 

[DDTexlaxed]

The Bible says you have to endure to the end to be saved. So, it means either the end of your life or the end of the end times. JMHO.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

You are saved at the time you accept Christ. As long as we are in Christ, we are saved. When a person decides to walk away and not endure till the return, they are are in danger of losing salvation.

The key is to remain in Christ. Christ will bring us physically to perfection on the day of the Lord, but we are saved at conversion. If we dont take hold of the gift of salvation through Christ by faith, we miss out on the life that Christ wants us to live now.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8

"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36

Keep walking in the way.

 

[makeupgirl]

This is from BBN How to get to Heaven

Which shares how can a non-believer can get to heaven...which is only through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior according to John 14:6

First the bad news.

Because we have sinned we are born separated from God. Without intervention, we are ineligible for Heaven. This applies to the entire human race. You are not alone.

Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Romans 3:10 says, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Romans 6:23a "For the wages of sin is death;"

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:"

There is no amount of good works we can do to save ourselves from being eternally separated from God.

Ephesians 2:8-9 say, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

To be separated from God forever, simply do nothing. To ignore or reject God's son is the only sin that can keep a person out of Heaven and the only alternative to Heaven is eternal torment in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:15, 2 Thes. 1:7-9).

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

But there is good news!

There is a simple and free way to be reconciled with God made possible by God's only son Jesus. A blood sacrifice was needed to pay for your sins and Jesus was sent to become that sacrifice. He was nailed to a Roman cross to shed His blood in payment for your sin. Then three days after His death, He rose from the dead, validating once and for all His qualification to be our only Savior.

Placing your complete trust in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is God's one and only means of reaching Heaven.

Jesus said (John 14:6), "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life:, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

John 3:16 & 17 are clear. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

The Bible clearly tells us how to be saved:

Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

This is a free gift from God because He loves you.

Romans 6:23b "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Romans 10:13 "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Are you ready to believe right now? If so, simply tell God what he asked you to confess. You might use a prayer similar to this one:

"God, I admit to you that I am a sinner and I know I cannot do anything to earn my way to Heaven. I truly believe that Jesus died on the cross, was buried and rose from the grave. I put my faith in His sacrifice to pay for my sin in full."

 

[makeupgirl]

Poohbear and anyone else that believe what this commentary from gotojesus.com, John David Clark Sr, or any other sites that has their words written so eloquently that you start to believe the lie that Satan wants you to believe.

Check out what I wrote in this Beware of the unholy trinity

There are false prophets, false teachers, and anything out there that will get you to doubt your salvation, God's word, and Christ himself. Do you not know that this is the work of Satan? Each time we fall for his tricks, we give place to the devil and he is up there in Heaven mocking you to our Heavenly Father. I can picture it, "ha ha ha, your humble servant is doubting your word and their salvation. Much like my children in the world. I guess your sacriface was for nothing" Picture that if you will.

The bible is clear on how to receive Christ, how to receive eternal life. Why go to believe something else? If you are doubting, then know that Satan is at the helm of this demonic spirit of doubt. Get it out of you by confess and repenting to God now. Then talk to him about what you're feeling. He already knows, but would like for you to tell him yourself.


2 Thessalonians 2 - Pay attention to the bold
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.


I come to you with love as my sisters in Christ because I don't want to see anyone condemned for eternal life in the lake of fire for not trusting, believing, and receiving Christ as there Lord and Savior. And I'm sorry but this commentary from gotojesus.com is contrary to what is in the bible. I"ve checked this dude out. HOW can he question whether or not the bible is God's word? HOW can he question that no one is saved yet based off his perceptions even though it is clear that it's by grace through faith we are saved (ephesians 2:8-9)

Matt 7:13-20
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

These very false prophets will go before the Lord and claim that they have worked solely for his name sake. Not only them, but them religious folk who have song on the choir, tithe, preached, usher, gave to the poor, scream and shout, did cartwheels and passed out, etc...etc...etc.. They know of Christ, the know everything about him, even how to get to Heaven through him but they don't have a relationship, they don't truly know him, know him. Check this out:

Matt 7: 21-23

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Google it. It received a lot of hits and believe me they will tell you that religion is a sin and against God's word and it is.

The gospel is only the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Not anything else.

Anyone that tells you something differently, pay attention because they are of the anti-christ, because they are against Christ.

Ladies, study the bible for yourself. Ask the Holy Spirit for the understanding as the word is brought forth. Again, I come in love to tell you this. Satan is at work and he's always at work because he is buying time. He knows he's destined for hell and the lake of fire. This dude is not stupid, so lets never underestimate him.

Lets continue to pray for our spiritual growth as well continue to do the work of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The God of our salvation, the alpha and omega, beginning and the end.

 

[Guitarhero]

My belief in enduring until the end is based upon my church teachings...not any other ministry. We all have diff. "spiritual" language...but we're basically saying the same thing. I just wouldn't want to rob a bank then die immediately hehehe.

 

[Honi]

Ask yourself this question.

Can a sinner just renounce the enemy just by doing good and have him leave them alone?
The answer is No!

Well....why do we think that once we are saved that we will be renounced by Jesus just by doing something bad?

 

[Guitarhero]

A priest gave a homily the other day talking about confession and how this one in Italy started out his confession. You normally go in, kneel, cross yourself, ask for a blessing, state when your last confession was...etc., priest listens...gives you advice, absolution and penance...dismisses you in prayer and you leave. Well, that Italian priest? He greeted his congregants with, "how long will you serve your dark l-rd?" Talk about being taken aback! Makes you truly think about it. And these are words to those who are following Christ. You don't repent if you are not His.

 

[makeupgirl]

My belief in enduring until the end is based upon my church teachings...not any other ministry. We all have diff. "spiritual" language...but we're basically saying the same thing. I just wouldn't want to rob a bank then die immediately hehehe.

I don't understand. What exactly are we enduring until the end? Do you mean that we are to continue to trust, believe, and have faith in God and his plan for our lives as he strengthen us until we die physically or raptured? or that we should endure based on temptations, trials, sufferings, and our works to prove that we are for Christ, then receive the reward of eternal life based on those works?

Lets' use something like this as an example:

Example # 1

I accepted Christ as my savior, became a new creature based on his word, as well as receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Then I say, ok I'm in Christ, I have eternal life. I'm done and then go about my business acting like I was when I didn't have Christ in me. So, I live 30 years, never went to church to fellowship and worship, never went to bible study or parttake in any form of bible studying, never prayed, never witnessed, etc. But, I was good according to the worldly point of view because I didn't kill anyone, I didn't steal, never took the Lord's name in vain, never cursed, never got a speeding ticket, etc. Well, then I die, stand before the Lord and still receive eternal life because I did receive Christ in my life but my works don't show it.

Well I received Christ, was saved by him, accepted him by grace through faith - I have eternal life and will live forever with Christ in heaven.

Example # 2

I've heard all about Christ and I know that he died on the cross for my sins. But I go to church, I read my bible, I tithe, I help the elderly, I start a Christian blog. I'm also a pastor. But, I was good according to the worldly point of view because I didn't kill anyone, I didn't steal, never took the Lord's name in vain, never cursed, never got a speeding ticket, etc. Well, then I die, stand before the Lord and I am sentenced to hell because I didn't do what the bible said to do to receive eternal life. I don't have a relationship with Christ. I never receive him into my life. I don't have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Eternal damnation is my punishment because even though I did everything that a "Christian" is suppose to do as far as tithing, reading the bible, helping out the poor and elderly, preach in the church; I never receive Christ into my life because I never confessed and repented that I was a sinner. I didn't become a new creature in Christ because I didn't believe in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ. I never believe that Jesus is God, well I knew that he died on the cross for my sins but I just didn't believe it nor did I believe that he took on human flesh and became sin for us who knew no sin. Lastly, I didn't believe that Jesus wasn't enough to save me because I chose to work to get into heaven, instead of trusting and believing in what the bible said that I must be born again only through Jesus Christ.

Isn't it funny how example 1 got into heaven because all she did was trusted and believe in Christ and believed in her heart and confessed with her mouth that Jesus is Lord and that he was rised from the dead.

No not every ministry, church teachings, etc have the same "spiritual" language that is saying the same thing, because some teach according to the word of God and recognize that it's infallable and then the other, teach according to their own methods. As believers in Christ, our belief should be in Christ and his teachings, which is from Genesis to Revelation. That's why we should study the word for ourselves.

 

[Guitarhero]

^^^Enduring holding up the walk with Christ...being just, abiding by His rules, being like Him, repenting and turning away continually when you mess up. People can "believe" all day long about G-d but until they pick up that walk, * think it's not worth much, imho. Faith without works is dead.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

I would not. However, being a saved Christian man doesnt mean much to me either. I need you to hold 3 values:

1. A praying man. Prayer is the lifeline and blood supply of your walk with God. If you not praying, you not growing in God.
2. Open to correction. Its impossible to grow in Christ if you are not humble and willing to regularly repent of sin. Not my correction but correction from godly counsel or the Word.
3. Go to church. I prefer we have the same pastor, listen to the same Word, so our lives can more and more merge together.

Ask yourself this question.

Can a sinner just renounce the enemy just by doing good and have him leave them alone?
The answer is No!

Well....why do we think that once we are saved that we will be renounced by Jesus just by doing something bad?

You wont renounce Jesus at all but you add a level on influence in your life that overtime will more than likely lead you far away from Christ. The two become one so if you not pulling your spouse to God with you then you're getting pulled away. And for a wife that wants to please, she gonna go with her husband and mirror/complement his lifestyle. It happens ALL the time. Bey and Jay for example.

 

[makeupgirl]

A priest gave a homily the other day talking about confession and how this one in Italy started out his confession. You normally go in, kneel, cross yourself, ask for a blessing, state when your last confession was...etc., priest listens...gives you advice, absolution and penance...dismisses you in prayer and you leave. Well, that Italian priest? He greeted his congregants with, "how long will you serve your dark l-rd?" Talk about being taken aback! Makes you truly think about it. And these are words to those who are following Christ. You don't repent if you are not His.

Well, Christ is the mediator between God and man.

2 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (This verse is for Christians who have already trusted and believed in Christ)

Jesus is the high priest, the head of the church. Why? because he is the only way to God the Father. The gospel of Christ is the power of salvation to anyone that believeth and receiveth, then they shall have eternal life.

 

[Guitarhero]

Well, Christ is the mediator between God and man.

2 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (This verse is for Christians who have already trusted and believed in Christ)

Jesus is the high priest, the head of the church. Why? because he is the only way to God the Father. The gospel of Christ is the power of salvation to anyone that believeth and receiveth, then they shall have eternal life.

Just belief in G-d isn't going to cut it. You could believe that He is the Messiah then go out and rob a bank and shack up with a harem 25/7, embezzle, do all manner of evil things...but until that walk comes in line with the teachings of Christ (we're not talking a perfect walk...there is forgiveness) and the person actively repents, seeking to get back on that road, it's all in vain, imho.

 

[makeupgirl]

^^^Enduring holding up the walk with Christ...being just, abiding by His rules, being like Him, repenting and turning away continually when you mess up. People can "believe" all day long about G-d but until they pick up that walk, * think it's not worth much, imho. Faith without works is dead.

Romans 8


1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Guitarhero]

This is not talking about coming into the family of G-d. We do that as infants raised by a family who promises to teach you about Him (baptism, the removal of original sin). You can be in the Church, you can say you believe HIm whatnot...but again, if you were a Bernie Made-off-With-Errbody's-Money...I just wouldn't wanna face G-d like that until I sincerely repented. There is no grandfathering clause into heaven...it's by living righteously. We hope, we believe the promises...but then we are given the rules to live by. Faith + works...and you hope until the end because my hand will not turn G-d's hand since He controls it all. Confidence in final salvation comes through living righteously.

 

[Crown]

(Sorry, I can't read the other posts now)

No Salvation, No Holy Spirit
No Holy Spirit, No Root
No Root, No Real Fruits
No Real Fruits, No Seal
No Seal, No Salvation

Eph. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Mat 13: 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying:

“A farmer went out to sow his seed.

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Act. 2 : 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Salvation is a GIFT.
How do you honor this gift is another thing.

 

[Renovating]

...................................................................

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Since salvation is a gift, does that mean that God creates some people knowing HE will not give them the gift of salvation?

Can you please explain the 23rd verse that you have bolded? We don't choose what we understand or don't understand in this life, so I am a little confused about why our understanding makes us "good ground or rocky ground"? Thanks.

I know this was not directed at me but I will attempt to help.

To answer the first question. The gift of salvation is available to all but He already knows who will receive it and who wont because He is God.

The second question: If you receive the word and allow it to take root in your life by your relationship with Christ and spending time in the Word. Once you begin to live the word and allow the word of God to take root in your life, you will be good soil and bring increase. Your increase will be your life being a blessing to others, you becoming Christlike, and bringing Glory to God.

Hope that helps.

 

[Renovating]

I know this was not directed at me but I will attempt to help.

To answer the first question. The gift of salvation is available to all but He already knows who will receive it and who wont because He is God.

The second question: If you receive the word and allow it to take root in your life by your relationship with Christ and spending time in the Word. Once you begin to live the word and allow the word of God to take root in your life, you will be good soil and bring increase. Your increase will be your life being a blessing to others, you becoming Christlike, and bringing Glory to God.

Hope that helps.

Thank you. Your answer to the first question was very clear and I appreciate that.

 

[Guitarhero]

Just a thought...it's evident that there are diff. ways to come to Christ. Ours is through the family as infants or just entering the Church at a later date in life via baptism and confirmation. While you're there, you might as well live a righteous life. Some fall away from the teachings but they are still in the family of G-d. Others abide by Him daily. In the end, those who walked closely beside Him have a more secure feeling than those who didn't. We don't do altar calls and whatnot...G-d is taught through your parents and godparents. Those make a promise to renounce Satan and evil works. Of course, folks fail at times, but it's if you get back up on the road.

So, if I talk differently than you, this is why...perspective on how you enter His family. It's diff. but essentially the same...

 

[makeupgirl]

This is not talking about coming into the family of G-d. We do that as infants raised by a family who promises to teach you about Him (baptism, the removal of original sin). You can be in the Church, you can say you believe HIm whatnot...but again, if you were a Bernie Made-off-With-Errbody's-Money...I just wouldn't wanna face G-d like that until I sincerely repented. There is no grandfathering clause into heaven...it's by living righteously. We hope, we believe the promises...but then we are given the rules to live by. Faith + works...and you hope until the end because my hand will not turn G-d's hand since He controls it all. Confidence in final salvation comes through living righteously.

Upon receiving Christ you are coming into the family of God. Joint heirs with Christ, sons of God, the body of Christ, the bride of Christ.

I grew up in the church, doesn't mean I was the church. I didn't know Christ. I thought I knew him but I didn't. Didn't know about salvation being a free gift. Didn't even know that Jesus was God or why he had to die.

Salvation is a free gift. Jesus already paid the debt for us on the cross 2000 years ago. He's the only way to Heaven. Once you have receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you receive everlasting life, your name is written in the lambs book of life, you are saved from the great tribulation aka the wrath of God, you are saved from eternal damnation/condemnation. Becoming apart of the body of Christ was the best thing that ever happen to me. I entered adulthood as a born again believer. I have unspeakable joy, even in the midst of trials, storms, and persecutions.

Crown and Health&hair28, also explained it beautifully about the gift of salvation and happens after receiving Christ.

We must grow. There is going to be a change when you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Pray for your spiritual growth. How do we do that? We pray, we study the bible, we worship the Lord, we share the gospel with others, we fellowship. Romans 10:17 says "Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God" 1 Thes 5:17 tells us to "pray without ceasing" We are also not to quench and grieve the Holy Spirit but this doesn't mean that we lose him or our salvation because we have sinned as a Christian.

We still have the sinful nature from birth because of Adam's sin. The only difference is that our sins upon confession has been nailed to the cross and we're clean again as white as snow. So if we confessed that we are a sinner and repent of our sins upon receiving salvation through Christ, God remembers those sins no more and he remembers our current sins no more after we have sinned as believers. The body is neutral, the flesh is weak, but the spirit is always willing. As we continue to feed the spirit, the more that root will grow.

 

[Poohbear]

This is from BBN How to get to Heaven

Which shares how can a non-believer can get to heaven...which is only through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior according to John 14:6

First the bad news.

Because we have sinned we are born separated from God. Without intervention, we are ineligible for Heaven. This applies to the entire human race. You are not alone.

Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

Romans 3:10 says, "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Romans 6:23a "For the wages of sin is death;"

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:"

There is no amount of good works we can do to save ourselves from being eternally separated from God.

Ephesians 2:8-9 say, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

To be separated from God forever, simply do nothing. To ignore or reject God's son is the only sin that can keep a person out of Heaven and the only alternative to Heaven is eternal torment in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:15, 2 Thes. 1:7-9).

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

What you posted was Romans Road of Salvation that a man also put together.

The statements I bolded in your quote above are simply not true based on the scriptures.

You posted Revelations 21:8 which mentions more than just the unbelieving who will have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone. The verse mentions whoremongers, murderers, liars, and more!

"Good works" does not necessarily mean "Not Sinning". Good works are things like going to church, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, evangelizing, tithing/giving, etc. These are the things that will not save us from being eternally separated from God.

Believing in Christ and living a holy life by not sinning is what shows our faith. The scriptures clearly state these things and speaks strongly against willful sin. How are you exercising your faith by saying "I believe in Jesus but I'm a liar"? or "I believe in Jesus but I'm a whoremonger"? That simply cannot show you are saved or even a faithful believer. I would think the person would have to repent from those sins if he or she wants salvation in the end when Christ returns for those who are without spot nor blemish (Ephesians 5:27).

God's grace and forgiveness comes into play when we commit a sin unknowingly and if we repent (that means stop completely) of a willful sin (knowingly) that we committed. We can't continue to do the same sins that we know are wrong and expect God to forgive us over and over (Romans 6:1-4).

 

[makeupgirl]

Just a thought...it's evident that there are diff. ways to come to Christ. Ours is through the family as infants or just entering the Church at a later date in life via baptism and confirmation. While you're there, you might as well live a righteous life. Some fall away from the teachings but they are still in the family of G-d. Others abide by Him daily. In the end, those who walked closely beside Him have a more secure feeling than those who didn't. We don't do altar calls and whatnot...G-d is taught through your parents and godparents. Those make a promise to renounce Satan and evil works. Of course, folks fail at times, but it's if you get back up on the road.

So, if I talk differently than you, this is why...perspective on how you enter His family. It's diff. but essentially the same...

Ok this explains a lot now. Thanks for explaining. We still sisters in Christ.

 

[Poohbear]

makeupgirl

It's not about believing something else, it's about believing what is right and what aligns with the Holy Bible.

Yes the grace of God saves us through faith, but faith requires action. We live in a sinful world that we all must overcome. We cannot continue to sin like hell and expect to be saved in heaven when Jesus returns for his glorious bride.

Do you believe you can get into heaven with willful known sin in your life?

If God forgives believers for sins over and over no matter how many times they can do it, doesn't that mean everyone is going to heaven?

I would think that is false teaching, false doctrine, and heresy.

Why do we ignore the scriptures on holiness and being blameless in His sight?

Why do we ignore the scriptures that speak against sin and disobedience?

Doesn't faith require believing AND obeying?

You pointed out Mark 7:13-23, a scripture that so many people ignore. Look what Jesus says in verse 23 "depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

"Ye that work iniquity" are people who willfully sin. Willful sin is sin that we KNOW is wrong and decide to commit it anyway.

No matter how often you go to church, read your bible, preach and teach the word, or how much you profess to believe in your heart.... if you are sinning whether is lying, stealing, cheating, etc., Jesus is going to say "depart from me" in the end.

The unholy trinity is Satan, Antichrist, and the False Prophet.

Poohbear and anyone else that believe what this commentary from gotojesus.com, John David Clark Sr, or any other sites that has their words written so eloquently that you start to believe the lie that Satan wants you to believe.

Check out what I wrote in this Beware of the unholy trinity

There are false prophets, false teachers, and anything out there that will get you to doubt your salvation, God's word, and Christ himself. Do you not know that this is the work of Satan? Each time we fall for his tricks, we give place to the devil and he is up there in Heaven mocking you to our Heavenly Father. I can picture it, "ha ha ha, your humble servant is doubting your word and their salvation. Much like my children in the world. I guess your sacriface was for nothing" Picture that if you will.

The bible is clear on how to receive Christ, how to receive eternal life. Why go to believe something else? If you are doubting, then know that Satan is at the helm of this demonic spirit of doubt. Get it out of you by confess and repenting to God now. Then talk to him about what you're feeling. He already knows, but would like for you to tell him yourself.


2 Thessalonians 2 - Pay attention to the bold
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.


I come to you with love as my sisters in Christ because I don't want to see anyone condemned for eternal life in the lake of fire for not trusting, believing, and receiving Christ as there Lord and Savior. And I'm sorry but this commentary from gotojesus.com is contrary to what is in the bible. I"ve checked this dude out. HOW can he question whether or not the bible is God's word? HOW can he question that no one is saved yet based off his perceptions even though it is clear that it's by grace through faith we are saved (ephesians 2:8-9)

Matt 7:13-20
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

These very false prophets will go before the Lord and claim that they have worked solely for his name sake. Not only them, but them religious folk who have song on the choir, tithe, preached, usher, gave to the poor, scream and shout, did cartwheels and passed out, etc...etc...etc.. They know of Christ, the know everything about him, even how to get to Heaven through him but they don't have a relationship, they don't truly know him, know him. Check this out:

Matt 7: 21-23

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Religion is man's attempt to reach God. Google it. It received a lot of hits and believe me they will tell you that religion is a sin and against God's word and it is.

The gospel is only the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Not anything else.

Anyone that tells you something differently, pay attention because they are of the anti-christ, because they are against Christ.

Ladies, study the bible for yourself. Ask the Holy Spirit for the understanding as the word is brought forth. Again, I come in love to tell you this. Satan is at work and he's always at work because he is buying time. He knows he's destined for hell and the lake of fire. This dude is not stupid, so lets never underestimate him.

Lets continue to pray for our spiritual growth as well continue to do the work of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The God of our salvation, the alpha and omega, beginning and the end.

 

[lovely008]

I'm not sure what I think about this, but it actually doesn't matter in a sense. We will all see in the end, and so long as we are living as right as possible in God, it doesn't make a difference (not to be rude, but obviously this is IMO).

At the end of the day, I'd rather be focused on The Lord, continually seeking His face and asking for His wisdom regarding these matters. If we use our minds and intellect to figure this out, we'll get nowhere.

 

[Guitarhero]

G-d imbued man with intellect. It's part of a spark of life that comes from G-d. All those from Noah and onward to the apostles sought deeper meaning and understanding. It's part of His plan. (well, even those prior to Noah)