Galadriel
Well-Known Member
I think part of the problem is that homosexuality is one of the few sins where we don't seperate the person from the sin. For most people, we do not consider the sins that we commit to be intrinsic to our being. It is something we did...engaged in...and then put back down, not a part of our make up. Even heterosexual fornicators are considered to be engaging in a sin rather than "being" that sin.
So for many, when they see a homosexual they see someone who has "absorbed" a sin...it's them and they're it...no seperating the two. The only other things that I can think of to compare this to is pedophilia or beastiatlity.
I understand the Catholic doctrine concerning this. A disorder. But when that "disorder" can ONLY lead to sin...? I'm thinking as I type so it might be hard to follow. I have definately spoken to folks and acknowledged that God heals/delivers us as he sees fit. Meaning, I do think there are some sins that we will no longer struggle with and others we will have to battle all of our lives. I believe Paul was talking about this when he described the thorn in his flesh that he asked God to remove but God DID NOT, but instead said, My Grace is sufficient. Basically, Ima let you struggle with this so that you will rely more on my grace than your own efforts...this will keep you close to me as I perform in your life.
So that leads me to believe that a person who has same-sex attraction can be completely delivered with no more desire, AND that there can be a person who will have to be vigilant in casting down those desires.
I cannot agree that the desire/attraction is not a sin, simply a disorder (and by disorder I have assumed that you meant not a sin). The same way I would say the desire to have sex with children or animals is a sin. The fact that it is a disorder (and I think of this as some characteristic that a person has through no design of their own) doesn't make it less of a sin. But this doesn't mean that a person cannot be saved. Im not sure if I was clear or not lol but I'm trying to wade through some thoughts.
Overall I really dislike that what the Pope said will be used by pro-gay folks to encourage gay lifestyles.
CoilyFields, I think you stated your point well and brought up some interesting insights.
A heterosexual's opposite sex attraction inclines her to be attracted to men. And this is rightly ordered. Now, keep in mind that an inclination is not the same thing as lust or lustful thoughts. While her inclination is rightly ordered, if she were to fornicate, lust after someone, commit adultery, etc. she would sin. A homosexual's SSA is not rightly ordered, but it is the person's choice whether to engage in lust, sexual acts, or a "gay lifestyle," which would be sin. I think that's the distinction I'm trying to make.
I think it was interesting that you brought up how homosexuals as persons and homosexual attraction have been intertwined and not separated, do you think it's because many who advocate homosexual lifestyles have made it this way? They have created their sexual preference/attraction as a complete identity (even to the point of getting it recognized as equivalent to race or gender).
But for those who experience SSA and do not advocate homosexual lifestyles and actually agree with Biblical morality, while they suffer an internal distortion of true and proper sexuality, I agree with you that through Christ's grace they can overcome it and be saved.