Christian Unity, Cultural Differences and Freedom to Integrate

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Pastor Richard Twiss on Christian Unity

This is a video of pastor and speaker, Richard Twiss, of the Wiconi.org. It is an organization that seeks to support First Nations People who worship the Jesus Way, thus fostering an Indigenous cultural expression in their style of worship and understanding of the gospel. I transcribed some of what he had to say and I wanted your opinions. How has this philosphy on faith and culture influenced the African American church?

Twiss at Anderson University and the Mennonite Church of Canada, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClY7RoHsTKY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycTvKpKO0M0&NR=1

""...but there were approx. 20 million Native people here in th U.S.. But 400 years later, in the 1800's, there were only 230,000 Native people left. So from 20 million to 200,000 in 400 years is one of the greatest examples of ethnic cleansing or cultural genocide in the history of the world. So right here in the United States, all of that took place. So for our people, christianity has not been good news. So the way the gospel came to our people is you're sinners, you're involved in paganism and witchcraft and you worship demons and your drums are of the devil. Your dances are of the devil, so when you become a christian, you should cut your hair, learn the piano, learn the guitar, stop your dancing so you could be good christians And along with that, learn our language and etc., etc. So christianity has never been good news. So, it's sort of out of that context that I came to faith. And so for me, it's been a journey of what does it mean to be fully cultural and fully christian. Or in my instance, what does it mean to be fully Lakota and fully christian..."

"...and our cultures are like sunglasses, they are lenses that we put on and we view the world. We have white lenses, black lenses, chinese lenses,...all kinds of lenses. Now the beauty of, say, a telescope, is that it enables you to see. The problem is it prevents you from seeing
everything. So then, the only way to see more than what we can is by borrowing other peoples'
telescopes and looking at the world the way they perceive the world. NOw what if we did that
theologically.. What if we did it missiologically? That maybe the bible isn't everything that we
thought it would be because we are so bound by a certain cultural bias, even the fact that we
speak the English language. That binds us to a limited possibility about how fully we can
understand G-d..."

"...so because of their narrowmindedness culturally, they couldn't recognize the fact that G-d was doing an amazing new ....the problem was that their way of thinking about culture and
diversity was still bound up in their Jewish ethnocentrism which blinded them to the fact that G-d
was doing a new thing among the gentiles. So for all intensive purporses, they were Jesus-
loving, spiritually empowered, mature, absolutely dedicated born-again bigots, for Jesus.
Because their world view was too small. And I think many of us have had too small of a world
view..."

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Bump Bump

 

[Almaz]

well I guess you get no responses here.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

well I guess you get no responses here.

I know. I was really hoping for responses because he had very interesting concepts on the spread of the faith. He truly left no none out of the picture. I found it intriguing.

 

[Almaz]

Well I guess they could care less about the Native American and that is okay too. well most people are like others if it does not conform EXACTLY to what you believe then fuggidaboutit

 

[divya]

Culture tends to always be expressed within Christianity. To me, there is no issue with that at all, as long as it is not in contradiction with the Word of God.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Unfortunately, it is true that Christianity or a certain branch of Christianity did not come many Native peoples and many other groups in the proper manner. It was forced so many instances, which was against God's intent. The expression of non-Western European culture was often looked down upon. Of course, such sentiments are restricted to those times and peoples. As the pastor noted, even the Scriptures discuss ethnocentrism, which plagued the world even then. It's a human sickness that we can overcome only with God.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Culture tends to always be expressed within Christianity. To me, there is no issue with that at all, as long as it is not in contradiction with the Word of God.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Unfortunately, it is true that Christianity or a certain branch of Christianity did not come many Native peoples and many other groups in the proper manner. It was forced so many instances, which was against God's intent. The expression of non-Western European culture was often looked down upon. Of course, such sentiments are restricted to those times and peoples. As the pastor noted, even the Scriptures discuss ethnocentrism, which plagued the world even then. It's a human sickness that we can overcome only with God.

Do you think it's still a significant problem today? How has this issue affected the African American church?

 

[divya]

Do you think it's still a significant problem today? How has this issue affected the African American church?

Yes, of course. Ethnic issues definitely exist in the world today and unfortunately people have difficulty dropping those issues within Christianity.

Honestly, I cannot really tell you how the issue has affected the African-American church. My family is not AA, nor do we attend an AA church. But I will say that within Christianity, there are still those who have difficulty putting faith over culture. For example, if a girl from Nicaragua would like to marry someone from Ireland, or someone from India would like so marry someone from Ghana etc. Instead of basing the decision on spiritual matters, some families would reject the union simply because the person is of a different culture. Within Christianity, I believe we have to let go of that. Preference is one thing but to reject someone on that basis when they have a clear love for God is wrong. How do we expect to reach heaven where all people will be represented and we cannot learn to love and accept each other here?

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Yes, of course. Ethnic issues definitely exist in the world today and unfortunately people have difficulty dropping those issues within Christianity.

Honestly, I cannot really tell you how the issue has affected the African-American church. My family is not AA, nor do we attend an AA church. But I will say that within Christianity, there are still those who have difficulty putting faith over culture. For example, if a girl from Nicaragua would like to marry someone from Ireland, or someone from India would like so marry someone from Ghana etc. Instead of basing the decision on spiritual matters, some families would reject the union simply because the person is of a different culture. ?

Then how has this issue affected your own particular non-white culture within the body of christianity, assuming your culture is non-European? Are there elements within the traditional worship of, say, your grandparents' culture, that are accepted and openly expressed in your worship service? Twiss is talking about incorporating Native beliefs into the expression of christianity because it is not contrary to belief in the One True G-d nor in the worship of Him. He's not nec. talking about prejudice regarding multicultural unions.

 

[divya]

Then how has this issue affected your own particular non-white culture within the body of christianity, assuming your culture is non-European? Are there elements within the traditional worship of, say, your grandparents' culture, that are accepted and openly expressed in your worship service? Twiss is talking about incorporating Native beliefs into the expression of christianity because it is not contrary to belief in the One True G-d nor in the worship of Him. He's not nec. talking about prejudice regarding multicultural unions.

Yes and no.

God has blessed our faith with Christian cultural expression that is acceptable in His sight. That being said, the elements within worship are those which are in accordance with the Word, yet characteristic of our culture/s. My church has over 50 nationalities/cultures represented. The majority of us are of Caribbean/West Indian heritage (but also Latino, African, African-American, South Asian etc). I know that we sing certain Christian songs that are from our specific countries and such, in addition to others here in the U.S. Our cultures are often reflected in our instrumentals. It is reflected in foods during potlucks or in our dress, especially on International Day. All of our cultures have beautiful ways in which we can reflect God in our lives.

Here is one of the area SDA churches playing "Holy Holy" on the steel pan, the national instrument of my parent's country (Trinidad & Tobago). The song is put to a soca beat, which is our indigenous musical genre and now basically the same for many other Caribbean/West Indian countries. Wish the sound was better but... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1BqAT9kwjA


However, the elements of traditional worship in my grandparents’ religious culture generally would not be acceptable, because it is not in accordance with the Scriptures. On my father’s side, my grandfather was Hindu and therefore those practices do not mesh with those of Christianity, particular that of Seventh-Day Adventism. On my mother’s side, the same goes for my grandmother, who used to practice a mix of Catholicism/Shango beliefs. Shango is Yoruba-based (indigenous African) religion. Those beliefs are not in accordance with SDA Christianity for a number of reasons. Like Hinduism, there is acknowledgement of other deities/gods etc. That is only one example of a practice that God does not approve of. We could go on and on. My mother’s father did not believe in God or any god. He was a black Carib and because of the experiences of his peoples among other things, he generally did not acknowledge God. (My father’s mother is Catholic, so there are some similarities there). So overall, I would say no as far as religious culture/practice. However, as stated earlier, there is culture in general expressed within Christianity.

(True, he wasn’t talking about prejudice in multicultural unions but I do believe that the narrow-mindedness that the pastor spoke about and ethnocentrism can be found within Christianity is such situations).

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Yes and no.

God has blessed our faith with Christian cultural expression that is acceptable in His sight. That being said, the elements within worship are those which are in accordance with the Word, yet characteristic of our culture/s. My church has over 50 nationalities/cultures represented. The majority of us are of Caribbean/West Indian heritage (but also Latino, African, African-American, South Asian etc). I know that we sing certain Christian songs that are from our specific countries and such, in addition to others here in the U.S. Our cultures are often reflected in our instrumentals. It is reflected in foods during potlucks or in our dress, especially on International Day. All of our cultures have beautiful ways in which we can reflect God in our lives.

Here is one of the area SDA churches playing "Holy Holy" on the steel pan, the national instrument of my parent's country (Trinidad & Tobago). The song is put to a soca beat, which is our indigenous musical genre and now basically the same for many other Caribbean/West Indian countries. Wish the sound was better but... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1BqAT9kwjA


However, the elements of traditional worship in my grandparents’ religious culture generally would not be acceptable, because it is not in accordance with the Scriptures. On my father’s side, my grandfather was Hindu and therefore those practices do not mesh with those of Christianity, particular that of Seventh-Day Adventism. On my mother’s side, the same goes for my grandmother, who used to practice a mix of Catholicism/Shango beliefs. Shango is Yoruba-based (indigenous African) religion. Those beliefs are not in accordance with SDA Christianity for a number of reasons. Like Hinduism, there is acknowledgement of other deities/gods etc. That is only one example of a practice that God does not approve of. We could go on and on. My mother’s father did not believe in God or any god. He was a black Carib and because of the experiences of his peoples among other things, he generally did not acknowledge God. (My father’s mother is Catholic, so there are some similarities there). So overall, I would say no as far as religious culture/practice. However, as stated earlier, there is culture in general expressed within Christianity.

(True, he wasn’t talking about prejudice in multicultural unions but I do believe that the narrow-mindedness that the pastor spoke about and ethnocentrism can be found within Christianity is such situations).

Trini!!! I used to live in P.R. Friends from Trini and Venezuela...all over, actually. How I miss it. I get your point. My family is 2-nation but we're basically the same peoples lol. Thanks for your responses.

 

[Irresistible]

I dont know if I am on point with what your asking here

But I wanted to say this, do not concern yourself with the intolerance of others, God himself knows from whence you came and all beliefs instilled in you and what has influenced you, keep seeking him, not the approval OR tolerance of others , nor meshing of the faiths, You just keep YOUR faith and YOUR walk, HE DOES KNOW YOU, and keep seeking him and I gaurantee you will be lead to the truth , all truth, if you seek and ask ,it will be opened to you

also do not be dismayed, by the lack of acceptance of your walk by Christians, many of us, should be reminded, we were once lost and are not so far removed from coming to the LORD ourselves having our own ,or our families having roots in the occult, the LORD knew how to guide us and he can and will do no less for you. NO LESS

do not seek acceptance from flesh but only from God, this is your spiritual journey to know him and know him more and love him more and know more truth and seek it for you, and yours alone

eta dont catch a spirit of offense that then keeps you from seeking the truth or closing yourself off to it altogether

all said in love

I hope I was on point with something LOL

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I dont know if I am on point with what your asking here

But I wanted to say this, do not concern yourself with the intolerance of others, God himself knows from whence you came and all beliefs instilled in you and what has influenced you, keep seeking him, not the approval OR tolerance of others , nor meshing of the faiths, You just keep YOUR faith and YOUR walk, HE DOES KNOW YOU, and keep seeking him and I gaurantee you will be lead to the truth , all truth, if you seek and ask ,it will be opened to you

I get your point. Twiss is part of an organization that seeks to unify the body of Christ but retain it's own cultural expression. In order to do that, one has to come to grips with the knowledge that wrongs were committed alongside gross misunderstandings about the culture they sought to evangelize. His vision is 1 true body, where everyone is free to express his faith through his own culture without the imposition of the white model that has been passed down to oppress. His is an organization sought to heal all these wounds.

 

[Irresistible]

I get your point. Twiss is part of an organization that seeks to unify the body of Christ but retain it's own cultural expression. In order to do that, one has to come to grips with the knowledge that wrongs were committed alongside gross misunderstandings about the culture they sought to evangelize. His vision is 1 true body, where everyone is free to express his faith through his own culture without the imposition of the white model that has been passed down to oppress. His is an organization sought to heal all these wounds.

I'm not sure that kind of unity will ever happen, there are different fundamental beliefs standing in the way

I dont know

Sometimes Rejection is God's protection

if any would reject you, trust that it is his protection, if they cant just love you and respect you , whether you are 'lost' or not, what you know to be true to you is between you and God to work out as it has been for all of us, he lead us all, unity isnt needed, only your unity with God is the need always

I know it hurts, but we sometimes have to stand alone, and realize only some (few) might have the capacity to embrace another on that level. His vision will probably never happen.....I cant say if thats a bad thing or not, I can only say let God's will be done

 

[Ms.Honey]

To consistently imply that all white/European people are and were racist and were out to destroy everyone who were not like them is in itself racist. In this country there have ALWAYS been whites who have stood up and fought against bigotry and racism including CHRISTIAN WHITES!!!!. Jesus is the God of white people too not just people of color. That would be like Christians constantly talking about how the Jews killed Jesus and persecuted the early church, murdering the saints of God. We KNOW that it happened but here we fellowship and on focus on issues relevant to our daily lives, what the church does now and the goodness of God.

It seems as if you would like to have the whites wiped out of Christianity completely, your attitude towards them is so bigoted. Yes we have alot of European influence in Christianity BECAUSE they are the majority here. There is a lot of European culture in almost everything in America because of that very fact.

There are more with us than against us. To constantly focus on past sins does not solve any problems. Why not focus on the whites and others who fought against the destruction of the Native people instead of the ones who destroyed. Why not post articles on them? Why not focus on how Jesus was able to move on the hearts of people to end the bigotry and racism in this country?

You bring alot of negativity into the Christian forum with your threads and posts.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I'm not sure that kind of unity will ever happen, there are different fundamental beliefs standing in the way

I dont know

Sometimes Rejection is God's protection

if any would reject you, trust that it is his protection, if they cant just love you and respect you , whether you are 'lost' or not, what you know to be true to you is between you and God to work out as it has been for all of us, he lead us all, unity isnt needed, only your unity with God is the need always

I know it hurts, but we sometimes have to stand alone, and realize only some (few) might have the capacity to embrace another on that level. His vision will probably never happen.....I cant say if thats a bad thing or not, I can only say let God's will be done

That's actually not the point here. It's about a christian model of living based upon individual/different cultural expressions of that faith that differ from the white/Euro model superimposed. People cannot see the whole picture of the message because their viewpoints are colored by their own types of ethnocentric glasses. There are many things to be learned from various cultures in the world and as christianity was spread through European dominance, the true message has been blurred..or should I say that the fullness of that message is being hindered. One example of this would be care of the earth as a christian mandate. Understanding the Native American respect for Mother Earth and that of Judaism would lend a greater comprehension of the bible in that matter as we are all scrambling now to undo what harm was inflicted on our dying planet by a European mindset of divide and conquer. Read what Twiss had to say in those quotes on the first post...I think he was brilliant.

It's not about getting white people to accept a certain model. At the same time, we are all here together in this world and the community needs to embrace an understanding of different expressions of the faith for deeper comprehension leading to appropriate action. And actually, this is why so many christians are now learning about Judaism, to learn the context of the origins of the faith to gain deeper understanding into what their faith/religion is in the first place. It's not really about pain, it's about truth and acceptance and validity of all cultures as creations by One G-d...equal acceptance and not the status quo acceptance of a white model only. It's about striving for that unity and truth.

I'm not sure if people understand that the European model of christianity held non-white people as soulless beings and it took centuries for wrongs sanctioned by the church to be corrected. Slavery was definitely one of these issues as were the crusades.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

To consistently imply that all white/European people are and were racist and were out to destroy everyone who were not like them is in itself racist. In this country there have ALWAYS been whites who have stood up and fought against bigotry and racism including CHRISTIAN WHITES!!!!. Jesus is the God of white people too not just people of color. That would be like Christians constantly talking about how the Jews killed Jesus and persecuted the early church, murdering the saints of God. We KNOW that it happened but here we fellowship and on focus on issues relevant to our daily lives, what the church does now and the goodness of God.

It seems as if you would like to have the whites wiped out of Christianity completely, your attitude towards them is so bigoted. Yes we have alot of European influence in Christianity BECAUSE they are the majority here. There is a lot of European culture in almost everything in America because of that very fact.

There are more with us than against us. To constantly focus on past sins does not solve any problems. Why not focus on the whites and others who fought against the destruction of the Native people instead of the ones who destroyed. Why not post articles on them? Why not focus on how Jesus was able to move on the hearts of people to end the bigotry and racism in this country?

You bring alot of negativity into the Christian forum with your threads and posts.

No, Ms. Honey, I bring issues that the Church is actually dealing with. Maybe you haven't heard. Recently, the RCC has apologized to Africans and Native Americans for the mistreatments they have inflicted upon them. I'm not sure if you realize that taking children from their homes and reeducating them to be White and not Indian, destroying their language and culture, was a policy of Canada and the United States well into the 1980's, with churches at the forefront of the "re-education." It is a fact.

To say that I'm racist is a blatant attempt to discredit the valid points I have made. If you had read Richard Twiss's statements, you would have known that he is not racist, and neither am I. But one cannot push the issues of race and conquest under the guise of "christianity" beneath any carpet of convenience. You yourself said that churches are segregated by race due to prejudice and you're a member of a congregation that is not multi-ethnic to any large extent. You do not like my posts, so please abstain from reading them. I make valid points and bring current church issues to the forefront just as others bring diff. kinds of church issues to the forefront...i.e. fornication of the faithful etc.

I understand your particular point but it is so far from anything that I am saying that it leads me to either believe you are intentionally misquoting and representing me or that you have a little agenda to have me booted. Look elsewhere. As I've said before, you have your viewpoints and others have theirs. I cannot follow your path and you certainly cannot follow mine. Perhaps I should send in some christian articles about the most segregated hour weekly, church day. Maybe that will be more appropriate.

Are you overlooking the fact that there are christian organizations that seek to bring unity and closure to these issues? Maybe if one dug a little deeper, they'd see that the very people who brought the gospel message to the Americas and to Africans (although, it was law in many places that Blacks were not to practice religion of any kind) did so to superimpose themselves, not to "save" anyone. Still, the purity of the message was taken. It's time now to take off the cloak of the European and look deeply into the Jewishly cultured message of the gospel. Afterall, those were Jews, not Europeans. Read Twiss, listen to him. He promotes unity, not hatred. So do I.

 

[Ms.Honey]

That's actually not the point here. It's about a christian model of living based upon individual/different cultural expressions of that faith that differ from the white/Euro model superimposed. People cannot see the whole picture of the message because their viewpoints are colored by their own types of ethnocentric glasses. There are many things to be learned from various cultures in the world and as christianity was spread through European dominance, the true message has been blurred..or should I say that the fullness of that message is being hindered. One example of this would be care of the earth as a christian mandate. Understanding the Native American respect for Mother Earth and that of Judaism would lend a greater comprehension of the bible in that matter as we are all scrambling now to undo what harm was inflicted on our dying planet. Read what Twiss had to say in those quotes on the first post...I think he was brilliant.

It's not about getting white people to accept a certain model. At the same time, we are all here together in this world and the community needs to embrace an understanding of different expressions of the faith for deeper understanding. And actually, this is why so many christians are now learning about Judaism, to learn the context of the origins of the faith to gain deeper understanding into what their faith/religion is in the first place. It's not really about pain, it's about truth and acceptance and validity of all cultures as creation by One G-d...equal acceptance and not the status quo acceptance of a white model only. It's about striving for that unity and truth.

Where sin abounds grace does much more abound. Romans 5:20 God has NEVER left the church and His hand has never been stilled when it came to His church. He has ALWAYS let His will be known and the message of the gospel is and has always been strong. It has not been diluted as you would like to think. Jesus is Lord and Savior. That is His message and that is what has spread around the world for over two millennia.

We do NOT need to become Judaistic to understand the meaning of the Word of God, Paul and the other apostles made that CRYSTAL clear in the books of Acts, Hebrews and Romans. That is a distraction of the devil to try and take our focus off of the teachings of Jesus and it won't work, especially in this forum.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

We do NOT need to become Judaistic to understand the meaning of the Word of God, Paul and the other apostles made that CRYSTAL clear in the books of Acts, Hebrews and Romans. That is a distraction of the devil to try and take our focus off of the teachings of Jesus and it won't work, especially in this forum.

You have an incredibly simplistic approach to the gospels. It's a point not well-taken with you. Perhaps consult a theologian. I'm sure your minister, if degreed and ordained, did in fact study the judaic origins of the New Testament or the brit hadasha. Don't worry, nobody is trying to proselytize you.

Oh, by the way, I'm not the Devil neither am I his servant. Thank you very much.

 

[Ms.Honey]

No, Ms. Honey, I bring issues that the Church is actually dealing with. Maybe you haven't heard. Recently, the RCC has apologized to Africans and Native Americans for the mistreatments they have inflicted upon them. I'm not sure if you realize that taking children from their homes and reeducating them to be White and not Indian, destroying their language and culture, was a policy of Canada and the United States well into the 1980's, with churches at the forefront of the "re-education." It is a fact.

To say that I'm racist is a blatant attempt to discredit the valid points I have made. If you had read Richard Twiss's statements, you would have known that he is not racist, and neither am I. But one cannot push the issues of race and conquest under the guise of "christianity" beneath any carpet of convenience. You do not like my posts, please abstain from reading them. I make valid points and bring current church issues to the forefront just as others bring diff. kinds of church issues to the forefront...i.e. fornication of the faithful etc.

I understand your point but it is so far from anything that I am saying and it leads me to either believe you are intentionally misquoting and representing me or that you have reading difficulties.

No, I see very well what you are doing. You SAY that you want to bring the truth out about what's going on but your words are deceptive. You are trying to bring another gospel with your threads. Jesus is God. There is no other God. The gospel is strong and pure. Yes there are folks who have abused misusing the Word but that is NOT the church. There has always been those who lurked around God's people trying to throw us off course from the time Jesus walked the earth to the present.

 

[Ramya]

You have an incredibly simplistic approach to the gospels. It's a point not well-taken with you. Perhaps consult a theologian. I'm sure your minister, if degreed and ordained, did in fact study the judaic origins of the New Testament or the brit hadasha. Don't worry, nobody is trying to proselytize you.

Oh, by the way, I'm not the Devil neither am I his servant. Thank you very much.

And yet you fail to see the negativity in your posts here. The argumentative and baiting spirit that you bring to this forum is not missed and it is not victorious.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

I'd like to say something else, there are diff. kinds of christian in this forum. There are messianics, catholics, orthodox, pentecostals, COGIC, you name it, it's on here. But the way that anything that is not Black protestant-represented is shot down is an injustice to the many people who would LIKE to post their particular christian views here. Just know that not everyone relies upon the latest popular t.v. evangelists for their knowledge of the scriptures. Some of the folks here live that faith just as the ancients did, day by day, with the exact same liturgies of the past. Not everyone is the same but to act as though one side is better than another is a disservice to your faith. Truly, nothing I've said here is new or unknown to apologetics. Shrugs.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Re: Pastor Richard Twiss on Christian Unity

Ok, i have been trying to figure out the best way to reply.

Here goes.

It is not Christianity that has a problem. It is the people delivering the message. Twiss mentioned something about Christianity NOT being good news for native americans. The reality is that the methods used to spread it were the part that wasn't good. It wasn't the message, but the messenger.

That is human nature. People are imperfect, even in delivering a perfect message of salvation through a perfect Messiah.

As far as unity within Christianity it is possible and I think it exists, the reality though is that while we can all be unified in our belief in Jesus Christ as our savior from this World, it doesn't mean that we will all get along perfectly and hold hand singing happy happy joy joy songs.

God made us different for a reason. My view is that it helps us grow. If we were all the same, then we would never learn and grow and expand. As a Christian, I can love you and stand in agreement with you on God's will and with Jesus as our foundation, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we would agree and be in alignment on all other issues.

In a perfect place that would be the case, but we all know this World is far from perfect.

Like Irresistable mentioned. Don't spend too much of your time on focusing on people and their views and actions. If you keep chasing God, he'll lead you where you need to be and lead you to do whatever he has purposed you to do.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

No, I see very well what you are doing. You SAY that you want to bring the truth out about what's going on but your words are deceptive. You are trying to bring another gospel with your threads. Jesus is God. There is no other God. The gospel is strong and pure. Yes there are folks who have abused misusing the Word but that is NOT the church. There has always been those who lurked around God's people trying to throw us off course from the time Jesus walked the earth to the present.

Sigh, in other words, I'm asking a QUESTION about how some people view the gospel message and how it's been spread in the world. And yes, the church is implicated in the misuse of the gospel message. No, it doesn't mean every single person. But the church IS made up of different cultures. Can't expect everyone to see things exactly the same way...except for the basic tenets of the faith (I hope you read this twice...note, I said "basic tenets of the faith" so please don't misconstrue).

I don't understand why you keep alluding to me as a person of deception. How would I deceive you? What, am I a witch conjuring up something or other? There's really not a demon around every single corner MsHoney unless you are actively looking for it. Try to see the positives.

And no, I don't have any other gospel to bring. My questions have been on point. I want to know if people have ever thought about those aspects of the faith. If you are to spread the gospel and you encounter people who see these issues, how effective are you going to be if you don't address them as they are?

Just stop it Ms.Honey, please. Honestly, you come off as incredibly...sigh, I don't know...just don't know. I don't hate you. I know you hate me, though. It's quite evident. And accusatory...devil, deception...lolol! Note, I'm largely trying to avoid any encounter with you if possible.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

And yet you fail to see the negativity in your posts here. The argumentative and baiting spirit that you bring to this forum is not missed and it is not victorious.

I disagree. Goodbye, I will leave you. I thought this was about issues within christianity...all the issues, not just the feel-good ones. I apologize.

 

[Ms.Honey]

You have an incredibly simplistic approach to the gospels. It's a point not well-taken with you. Perhaps consult a theologian. I'm sure your minister, if degreed and ordained, did in fact study the judaic origins of the New Testament or the brit hadasha. Don't worry, nobody is trying to proselytize you.

Oh, by the way, I'm not the Devil neither am I his servant. Thank you very much.

You are not the devil but you do have a victim mentality. You focus on the negative in your posts and threads never the goodness of God. Never how He has blessed the Native Americans. Do you believe that God has blessed the Native Americans in America or do you think that they are eternal victims of the white man without the hope of the help of Jesus?

The gospel message IS a simple one. Jesus is Lord and He is God. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved. Romans10:9 It's the message of hope that we preach not superstitions like not being able to spell out the word God but instead G-d so we don't blaspheme His name. We are not bound but free.

We have been made free of the ordinances and the purity laws that were needful before Jesus came and brought truth into the earth. We have been freed from the bondage of the OT and are free to walk in the newness of life. We are no longer bound. This is not a new concept that you are trying to bring here. Paul vehemently opposed the thought that the gentiles no longer gentiles but we are now the church of God be made to practice Judaism. Again read the books of Acts, Romans and Hebrews.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Sigh, in other words, I'm asking a QUESTION about how some people view the gospel message and how it's been spread in the world. And yes, the church is implicated in the misuse of the gospel message. No, it doesn't mean every single person. But the church IS made up of different cultures. Can't expect everyone to see things exactly the same way...except for the basic tenets of the faith (I hope you read this twice...note, I said "basic tenets of the faith" so please don't misconstrue).

I don't understand why you keep alluding to me as a person of deception. How would I deceive you? What, am I a witch conjuring up something or other? There's really not a demon around every single corner MsHoney unless you are actively looking for it. Try to see the positives.

And no, I don't have any other gospel to bring. My questions have been on point. I want to know if people have ever thought about those aspects of the faith. If you are to spread the gospel and you encounter people who see these issues, how effective are you going to be if you don't address them as they are?

Just stop it Ms.Honey, please. Honestly, you come off as incredibly...sigh, I don't know...just don't know. I don't hate you. I know you hate me, though. It's quite evident. And accusatory...devil, deception...lolol! Note, I'm largely trying to avoid any encounter with you if possible.

Ok. I think I got it. G, do you understand that there is a difference between the church and the Church. The church has mislead folks of all different races and nationalities for years. However, the Church is Jesus Christ. We are his body and only seek to do his will and not our own. the Church is submitted to the Will of God as prescribed in his Holy Bible. the church seeks to gain something and teaches about gaining something. The Church understands that there is NOTHING on this blue earth that is more precious that the gift of Jesus the Christ.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Sigh, in other words, I'm asking a QUESTION about how some people view the gospel message and how it's been spread in the world. And yes, the church is implicated in the misuse of the gospel message. No, it doesn't mean every single person. But the church IS made up of different cultures. Can't expect everyone to see things exactly the same way...except for the basic tenets of the faith (I hope you read this twice...note, I said "basic tenets of the faith" so please don't misconstrue).

I don't understand why you keep alluding to me as a person of deception. How would I deceive you? What, am I a witch conjuring up something or other? There's really not a demon around every single corner MsHoney unless you are actively looking for it. Try to see the positives.

And no, I don't have any other gospel to bring. My questions have been on point. I want to know if people have ever thought about those aspects of the faith. If you are to spread the gospel and you encounter people who see these issues, how effective are you going to be if you don't address them as they are?

Just stop it Ms.Honey, please. Honestly, you come off as incredibly...sigh, I don't know...just don't know. I don't hate you. I know you hate me, though. It's quite evident. And accusatory...devil, deception...lolol! Note, I'm largely trying to avoid any encounter with you if possible.

 

[Ramya]

I disagree. Goodbye, I will leave you. I thought this was about issues within christianity...all the issues, not just the feel-good ones. I apologize.

Updated Board Rules:

The purpose of this particular forum is to allow believers of Jesus Christ to fellowship together. Its not political, controversial, or a means for debating. Any post that do not pertain to spiritual advancement, encouragement, etc. will be removed. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

I advise you to familiarize yourself with this forum's rules.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Let us Pray. Bow your heads.

ETA:
For our struggle is not against human opponents, but against rulers, authorities, cosmic powers in the darkness around us, and evil spiritual forces in the heavenly realm.

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."