Abortion Question

[Caramela]

To have a ministry for women who have had abortions. An outreach of love and support.

That really changes the entire purpose of the thread... To the OP's original question, how would you propose that be done?

 

[Shimmie]

But where are they? That's why I think a lot of women take their abortions to their grave. Their own church members silently and verbally judge them and there isn't an outreach program in sight for them. When the elders do see a woman with 2 or 3 kids and can barely support herself with no father around because she chose to keep them, then they talk about her then as well.

I've seen it on both sides and I know someone who doesn't think I know that she had an abortion and i think she is taking it to the grave. The minute she says something to the tune of her having one, who knows what will happen.

And in all honesty, what church do you know will have a ministry like this? That's the scary part. Not mine. They mean well, but try saying something as controversial as such and its a totally different story.

Actually there are many out there. We can't say that there are none just because we haven't seem them. There's a serious call for this type of ministry and God has laid upon many hearts to hear and answer the call to heal.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/afterabortion/index.htm

http://www.safehavenministries.com/

http://www.aodonline.org/AODOnline/...+offers+healing+to+those+hurt+by+abortion.htm

http://www.ppl.org/Ministry_AffectedByAbortion.html

http://www.postabortionhelp.org/Resources/resources.html

Do Not Lose Hope:

http://www.albahouse.org/hope.htm

Catholic Women who Have Had Abortions:

http://www.angelfire.com/me2/byzantinelinks/catholicwomen.html

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

http://www.usccb.org/prolife/publicat/postabor.shtml

This site has a list of healing resources and shares about a poster with a loving message:

"If you're suffering because of an abortion, don't suffer alone."

Path: Post Abortion Treatment and Healing

http://www.albahouse.org/hope.htm

Angel, I know it seems hopeless but it's not. There are many, many more ministries for healing post an abortion. So no longer can we ask, 'where are they?' It depends on our focus and where we spend our time. There are many neighborhood churches who do care and who do minister and they never condemn...they love as Jesus loves. And if there's one lacking, let Jesus start with us, one on one to help heal a broken soul. We're all quite capable. All of us.

 

[Ms Lala]

I work in counseling and a ministry for women struggling with issues post-abortion is much needed. Women who have had abortions are often too afraid to get help from the church because they would be so shunned. There isn't an outlet in many church. Because of the stigma I think it would have to be handled in a confidential manner such as a Christian counseling type of setting. The enemy is so horrible, he'll convince the woman to have the abortion then torture her w/the thoughts about how wrong it was afterward. This condemnation is not from God. THere are women who often here the baby crying, or who get seriously depressed afterward and even attempt to take their own life.
I don't know if women would be willing to come to a group for this in their own church. Maybe something internet based would be effective, I think it may be more appealing to women since their faces won't be seen and such shame is often attached to it.

Thank for the above post, I am going to use some of those resources.

 

[Shimmie]

That really changes the entire purpose of the thread... To the OP's original question, how would you propose that be done?

I think it's already begun. Our precious OP presented the need for such and it's now up to each of us to be available. Each of us here has something to offer in love and support to one who has had an abortion.

Rather than object, respect that a person has been a situation that she felt no other recourse for solution, than an abortion. It's up to us to love her and heal her.

I'm not going to tear a person down for having had an abortion. Yet, I just won't lie in a forum discussion and say that it's okay to abort. We all error and make wrong decisions. Yet God is still our forgiver and loves us into restoration in the fullness of His love.

 

[Shimmie]

I work in counseling and a ministry for women struggling with issues post-abortion is much needed. Women who have had abortions are often too afraid to get help from the church because they would be so shunned. There isn't an outlet in many church. Because of the stigma I think it would have to be handled in a confidential manner such as a Christian counseling type of setting. The enemy is so horrible, he'll convince the woman to have the abortion then torture her w/the thoughts about how wrong it was afterward. This condemnation is not from God. THere are women who often here the baby crying, or who get seriously depressed afterward and even attempt to take their own life.
I don't know if women would be willing to come to a group for this in their own church. Maybe something internet based would be effective, I think it may be more appealing to women since their faces won't be seen and such shame is often attached to it.

Thank for the above post, I am going to use some of those resources.

Here, a person can call for counseling:

Rachel's Vineyard is a ministry of Priests for Life, and provides counseling and retreats for those who have had abortions. You may speak to someone there at 1-877-HOPE-4-ME

Actually one of those resources does have a forum for discussion...

This one has a forum and a chat room.

http://www.safehavenministries.com/

Hope this helps.

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

Sin is Sin.

ADULTERY = LIE = MURDER = FORNICATION = .......

Should I ask the government to punish those that commit adultery?

Should I ask the government to punsh fornicators?

Should I ask the government to punish those that don’t believe in a God much less acknowledge Christ as our Lord and Saviour a crime?

Choice is God-given.

As a Christian, I would NEVER EVER counsel someone to have an abortion. I believe life begins at conception. But I would never force someone not have one. Just like I would never rip a cigarette from a pregnant women's mouth (even though I very much want too!) If this child is still inside her body, I can't stop her. She has to reconcile her actions with GOD not with me! Now, once the baby is out, it's on! I would definetely advocate to make cigarette smoking around children a crime.

BUT I would never ask the government to punish a women for having an abortion. I think people forget what would happen if we made abortion illegal.

Being pro-life (in the government sense) means that you are willing to punish (with jail time) women who commit this crime of abortion.

I do not agree with the government executing judgement on issues that are personal in nature. Laws are needed for our society to function properly. So yes, there is a role for government in punishment and to deter crime. BUT this is a secular society, and therefore we should not expect our government to legislate OUR morality. I beleive in the 10 commandments. I believe in the biblical Sabbath. Should I advocate our government enforce this belief? Why not? Where does it end? As Christians, this is a slippery slope. What happens when people with a different morality, want to impose theirs on us? What defense will we have?

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

Actually it will NEVER matter what man says or what man thinks. It what God says. "Thou Shalt Not Kill". Period! That will never change.

For those who call themselvs Christians and 'Pro-Choice".... Hmmmmm. "Choose you this day whom you will serve..." God says plainly that He has called Heaven and earth as His witness, "Choose Life or Death, blessing or cursing...therefore choose Life". Period. It's just that plain.

It does not matter what man/woman says in opposition to this. Those who call themselves Christian had better consider that they lie to themselves and to the Lord, for Jesus plainly said, "Why call unto me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things I command?"

You cannot have it YOUR way. It's God's way and no other. You can say that you can as long as you want, but God's way will never change just for one to have 'their' way. It won't. period.

For a man's ways and thoughts MAY seem right to him, but the way thereof is destruction.

Just admit the truth of the matter. That you disagree with God. And you do, totally. Though you may call yourself Christian, you still have problems adhering to and accepting the Truth which He commands, which is 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'.

We do not make the rules...He does and there is nothing that anyone can say or do about it. Nothing! You can quote 'I disagree' or you call turn blue, black or even green in the face, but it still will not change just because you disagree. It won't. It simply won't.

Keep living and eventually you will have to honor it as God's command or die with a lie.

To the OP, I agree, for this cause there are women who need loving support and to know that they can get past this and start over again. I applaude your love and concern for this much needed ministry.

This IS the Christianity forum and in Christianity we honor life, not destroy it. There is no such thing as giving Pro Choice to kill.

Huh? I agree that Abortion is wrong. I just don't believe that the government should punish women who do it. And that means I am in disagreement with God?

 

[Shimmie]

Huh? I agree that Abortion is wrong. I just don't believe that the government should punish women who do it. And that means I am in disagreement with God?

What we believe does not matter, God still says, "Thou shalt not kill."

It's a hard call yet, the punishment should fit the crime. Let me explain why. Far too many women and men have taken this law of man (not God's law) of abortion to extreme measures. To the point where life is not respected. Do you really and honestly believe that God intended for abortion to be in operation. Indeed not! This literally grieves His heart to see life be disregarded in the way that it has. Life is a Gift. Allow someone to block your airwaves, surely you will cry out for mercy so that you might live.

How does a baby fetus feel? Women are aborting like it's no tomorrow. It has truly gotten out of hand. There are no longer cases where medically an abortion may be deemed necessary to spare a woman's life or health, now it's done because someone got caught or careless or both and they abort for the convenience of not carrying a child full term. The reasons are selfish and shallow. They're just beginning a new career, a new life, a new boyfriend, some even as low as not wanting to look bad in a new bikini. Ahhhh, yes, it has gotten down to this level and God is heartbroken over this. Tell me He's not.

Babies are being killed (aborted) at 20 weeks, where a 'fork' like instrument is probed into the base of their precious little sculls, until their life is drawn from them and their precious little heads are deflated. Where do we draw the line? Someone needs to go to jail for this cruel act of taking a baby's life. This is 'Hitler'.

Indeed, I would hate to see anyone be jailed for having to make an emotional decision regarding their lives. Especially in the case of rape, or a matter of health, life or death. There are indeed extenuating circumstances that may necessitate an abortation. But I'm speaking of those who do not have extenuating circumstances; it's too available now in the world we live in to anyone who asks for it.

This is not a game. God is not in Heaven tossing dice in a game of Monopoly, saying, "Okay, who's next?" This is a horror to say the very least. Jesus said, "I am come that you may have LIFE and have it more abundantly." God said, 'Be fruitful and multiply" not decrease and die. Yet the world has chosen to do just that and wipe their consciousness with a ragged covering that says, 'pro choice' to kill by choice.

Your post says something, that you do not see an unborn baby as life. For if you did you would see abortion the same as killing an infant who has been born. A baby is still a baby no matter what stage of growth that it is in, be it in or outside of the mother's womb. Just because we've yet to hold this baby in our arms and cuddle it, it is still the same life which is being developed inside of the mother's womb as one who is outside of the womb, be it a zygote, an embryo, or a fetus, this is still a baby. Therefore to abort is no different than to kill an infant outside of the womb.

As for the law, it will still convict and jail a person who causes a pregnant woman to lose her child. It's still taking a life. A pregnant woman is given much care for she carries life inside of her. Any act of purpose to end that life is killing and nothing less.

Now this world would be quite empty of females if they were jailed, for there have been millions of abortions performed since Rowe vs Wade took over. Yet, only for the grace of God this has not happened; women and men are not being jailed for such. Abortion has literally become an epidemic, far out of control. It's only a God given right to respect and behold life, not destroy it.

So yes, you do disagree with God. For there has to be a line drawn to stop this maddness. To those who think it's a game, or a sure market for financial gain, they deserve punishment.

Yet for those in crisis, they need forgiveness and love and healing and no condemnation.

It's not about forcing what we believe on others. It's more about lot letting the world force its homocidal persuasions to kill innocent babies who did not ask a soul for anything except, 'Please let me live."

Now to any woman who has had an abortion, you are not being condemned. I cannot express this more. We've all made decisions which seemed right, no matter what it is. We just have to call it what it is so that we can heal and begin again. I've been there. I've been forgiven and I've moved on in Jesus and I'm free.

Jesus said, "Your sins have been forgiven you; Go and sin no more..." That's how special you are in His heart and always will be. And no one can take that from you. From this moment on...'Where are your accusers?" They no longer exist. But you do...move on in the loving arms of Jesus and allow no one to condemn you ever again. You've moved on from your sin and now it's time to live again and you will. Yes you will.

 

[lejardinier]

Sending you a PM.

 

[Shimmie]

Sending you a PM.

lejardinier, this forum needs to know how loving your heart is. It puts me to shame, that I never thought about this situation to help others to the extent that you have. God bless you.

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

What we believe does not matter, God still says, "Thou shalt not kill."

It's a hard call yet, the punishment should fit the crime. Let me explain why. Far too many women and men have taken this law of man (not God's law) of abortion to extreme measures. To the point where life is not respected. Do you really and honestly believe that God intended for abortion to be in operation. Indeed not! This literally grieves His heart to see life be disregarded in the way that it has. Life is a Gift. Allow someone to block your airwaves, surely you will cry out for mercy so that you might live.

How does a baby fetus feel? Women are aborting like it's no tomorrow. It has truly gotten out of hand. There are no longer cases where medically an abortion may be deemed necessary to spare a woman's life or health, now it's done because someone got caught or careless or both and they abort for the convenience of not carrying a child full term. The reasons are selfish and shallow. They're just beginning a new career, a new life, a new boyfriend, some even as low as not wanting to look bad in a new bikini. Ahhhh, yes, it has gotten down to this level and God is heartbroken over this. Tell me He's not.

Babies are being killed (aborted) at 20 weeks, where a 'fork' like instrument is probed into the base of their precious little sculls, until their life is drawn from them and their precious little heads are deflated. Where do we draw the line? Someone needs to go to jail for this cruel act of taking a baby's life. This is 'Hitler'.

Indeed, I would hate to see anyone be jailed for having to make an emotional decision regarding their lives. Especially in the case of rape, or a matter of health, life or death. There are indeed extenuating circumstances that may necessitate an abortation. But I'm speaking of those who do not have extenuating circumstances; it's too available now in the world we live in to anyone who asks for it.

This is not a game. God is not in Heaven tossing dice in a game of Monopoly, saying, "Okay, who's next?" This is a horror to say the very least. Jesus said, "I am come that you may have LIFE and have it more abundantly." God said, 'Be fruitful and multiply" not decrease and die. Yet the world has chosen to do just that and wipe their consciousness with a ragged covering that says, 'pro choice' to kill by choice.

Your post says something, that you do not see an unborn baby as life. For if you did you would see abortion the same as killing an infant who has been born. A baby is still a baby no matter what stage of growth that it is in, be it in or outside of the mother's womb. Just because we've yet to hold this baby in our arms and cuddle it, it is still the same life which is being developed inside of the mother's womb as one who is outside of the womb, be it a zygote, an embryo, or a fetus, this is still a baby. Therefore to abort is no different than to kill an infant outside of the womb.

As for the law, it will still convict and jail a person who causes a pregnant woman to lose her child. It's still taking a life. A pregnant woman is given much care for she carries life inside of her. Any act of purpose to end that life is killing and nothing less.

Now this world would be quite empty of females if they were jailed, for there have been millions of abortions performed since Rowe vs Wade took over. Yet, only for the grace of God this has not happened; women and men are not being jailed for such. Abortion has literally become an epidemic, far out of control. It's only a God given right to respect and behold life, not destroy it.

So yes, you do disagree with God. For there has to be a line drawn to stop this maddness. To those who think it's a game, or a sure market for financial gain, they deserve punishment.

Yet for those in crisis, they need forgiveness and love and healing and no condemnation.

It's not about forcing what we believe on others. It's more about lot letting the world force its homocidal persuasions to kill innocent babies who did not ask a soul for anything except, 'Please let me live."

Now to any woman who has had an abortion, you are not being condemned. I cannot express this more. We've all made decisions which seemed right, no matter what it is. We just have to call it what it is so that we can heal and begin again. I've been there. I've been forgiven and I've moved on in Jesus and I'm free.

Jesus said, "Your sins have been forgiven you; Go and sin no more..." That's how special you are in His heart and always will be. And no one can take that from you. From this moment on...'Where are your accusers?" They no longer exist. But you do...move on in the loving arms of Jesus and allow no one to condemn you ever again. You've moved on from your sin and now it's time to live again and you will. Yes you will.

you didn't even address my other examples of SIN not being punishable by MAN's LAW. Not suprised. Because you cannot reconcile Man's Law with God's law.

And No, YOU disagree with God. You disagree with God's gift of free choice. God never intended for us to live in a sinful world. But yet we are here. Why? Because he gave Adam and Eve and you and I FREE CHOICE. There will be consequences for sin on this earth and at judgement. You cannot exact God's punishment. All you and this government can give is what you deem is a acceptable punishment. What is it? Two years, 5 years in jail, the death penalty? Whatever it is, it is not God's judgement. It is only Man's. This is not equal to God's judgement.

And once again you a wrong! I do believe that it is a baby. I also believe a sin is abomonation to God but I refuse to let a SECULAR government take the place of GOD. The United States is not biblical ISRAEL. This country cannot be trusted to enforce GOD's laws. The best a secular government can do is regulate laws between man NOT between man and GOD. And even that it is not doing well.

You give government the right to enforce your beliefs, don't be surprised when one day THEIR beliefs will be forced on you.

 

[lejardinier]

Thanks. It's not me or DH. It's all God.

 

[divya]

I'm glad this came to the Christian forum. The freedom of choice is God-given.
God in His LOVE for humanity and all His creations does not force us to follow Him, but rather allows us to choose to love Him and keep his commandments. It is amazing that such a mighty and powerful God would extend to us the opportunity to decide, but that alone reveals the awesomeness of His character. Because His love for us is true, He desires that our decision to follow Him be sincere and true.

That being said, acknowledging the right to choose is recognizing the choice that the Lord gives all of us, and does not mean that a person condones wrongdoing. I am pro-life for myself, because I believe abortion is wrong. I will live by example and am also glad reach out to others and to show any woman (or man) in the valley of decision, that the Bible is against abortion. However, like in any decision between right and wrong, the choice ultimate belongs to that individual. Just think of Christ's example. He came to die for our sins and to show us how to live right, but never once did He force anyone to believe on Him. Every person must choose who they will serve, God or man.

 

[divya]

The abortion issue is intertwined with church-state separation. For this reason alone, the right to choose must be maintained by the government. Some religions/denominations proclaim to be pro-life and others proclaim to be pro-choice. The only way to be neutral on this issue is to allow the individual to make the decision. To do the opposite is crossing the lines of separation between church and state. The Bible itself maintains that church and state should be separate.

We need to be very careful. This goes beyond the abortion issue as now for example, some are pushing to make it a hate crime to speak out against homosexuality. This puts numerous religious leaders into a very difficult position. This issue of church-state separation is a loaded one, but my point is only that attempt to have the government dealing with these types of issues pushes this country in the wrong direction.

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

The abortion issue is intertwined with church-state separation. For this reason alone, the right to choose must be maintained by the government. Some religions/denominations proclaim to be pro-life and others proclaim to be pro-choice. The only way to be neutral on this issue is to allow the individual to make the decision. To do the opposite is crossing the lines of separation between church and state. The Bible itself maintains that church and state should be separate.

We need to be very careful. This goes beyond the abortion issue as now for example, some are pushing to make it a hate crime to speak out against homosexuality. This puts numerous religious leaders into a very difficult position. This issue of church-state separation is a loaded one, but my point is only that attempt to have the government dealing with these types of issues pushes this country in the wrong direction.

Have mercy!

 

[divya]

Have mercy!

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/157874.aspx

We really need to be on our knees...

 

[motherx2esq]

Get ready to rumble cause these ladies are gonna do everything but crucify you. Very sensitive topic.

BTW, I am christian and PRO-CHOICE. And it ain't gonna change for no one unless Jesus himself comes down and tells me otherwise.

Amen! I think any decision anyone makes is between them and God! No judgement from anyone else needed!

 

[Shimmie]

you didn't even address my other examples of SIN not being punishable by MAN's LAW. Not suprised. Because you cannot reconcile Man's Law with God's law.

And No, YOU disagree with God. You disagree with God's gift of free choice. God never intended for us to live in a sinful world. But yet we are here. Why? Because he gave Adam and Eve and you and I FREE CHOICE. There will be consequences for sin on this earth and at judgement. You cannot exact God's punishment. All you and this government can give is what you deem is a acceptable punishment. What is it? Two years, 5 years in jail, the death penalty? Whatever it is, it is not God's judgement. It is only Man's. This is not equal to God's judgement.

And once again you a wrong! I do believe that it is a baby. I also believe a sin is abomonation to God but I refuse to let a SECULAR government take the place of GOD. The United States is not biblical ISRAEL. This country cannot be trusted to enforce GOD's laws. The best a secular government can do is regulate laws between man NOT between man and GOD. And even that it is not doing well.

You give government the right to enforce your beliefs, don't be surprised when one day THEIR beliefs will be forced on you.

Don't be upset. I disagree with God about issues everyday of my life and I always will. We ALL do; for as long as we are in this flesh, we will war against what 'thus saith the Lord.' Anyone who says otherwise, they lie.

As for the other sins, there are penalities that come with them and in many states, there are arrests for those you've mentioned.

However this thread is about abortion, a hot topic and hot answers with a hot destiny. God's laws are not an opinion nor will they ever be. No matter who objects. It's only by His grace and mercies which follow us each day, that we have not been punished as we should. That's His word, not mine, yet I have lived it to know it.

Abortion should not be legalized, especially not to the degree that it has been. You speak of the government or man's laws placing one in jail for this as wrong, yet it's GOD's law, not man that carries this penalty. To be truthful most of the laws we've seen changed to conform to man's sinful nature, were originally based on God's commandments.

Legalized abortion was designed by man and man alone. It's already gone way beond it's original intent to protect mothers in danger of complications and rape and molested victims.

You cannot make this right by saying God gave us the gift of free choice, for free choice is not a license to sin or to change God's commandments.

Is is right for a teenager to have an abortion without parental knowledge or consent? No, and it never will be. YET, legalized has taken license to make this a law. A law with a cover up lie that it's their right to do so. This deserves penality, for it goes against parental rights as God has ordained. Abortions are not a method of birth control, cover up for sin, nor to be free of an unwanted pregnancy. Free choice doesn't make this right. When God gives us a 'gift' He expects us to honor Him with it and to use our free choice wisely.

As for forcing one to serve, honor God, of course you cannot make a person do anything. But you can't be a doormat and not take and maintain your stand for God and what's right. We can't stand with wet noodles for legs and feet. We have to stand firm and not fear man.

Jesus didn't hesitate to speak the truth, whether it was warm or cold in tone. He didn't bite His tongue with the religious rulers; He even called a woman a dog when she sought Him to heal her daughter; He didn't hesitate to call King Herod a homosexual (a fox, meaning effemient one). Jesus wasn't a sissy in a white dress; He was a man and He is God!

There's no getting around the fact that abortion is murder and it can't be taken lightly. As Christians we cannot afford to not speak up and put a stop to this maddness. I'm not afraid of being offensive if it means not allowing the world to pollute this earth I live upon.

I have no doubt at all that you love the Lord and seek to please Him. But we cannot sit back and settle for what's being done in this system. As Christians, we have to have our voice heard and not back down. Some laws should never be, and legalized abortion without limits is one of them. Abortion is not a game. It should only be used for medical reasons and not just because a woman got caught and seeks it for convenience. Free choice is not a license to do so and it never will be. It's simply gone too far.

Take care

 

[divya]

Don't be upset. I disagree with God about issues everyday of my life and I always will. We ALL do; for as long as we are in this flesh, we will war against what 'thus saith the Lord.' Anyone who says otherwise, they lie.

As for the other sins, there are penalities that come with them and in many states, there are arrests for those you've mentioned.

However this thread is about abortion, a hot topic and hot answers with a hot destiny. God's laws are not an opinion nor will they ever be. No matter who objects. It's only by His grace and mercies which follow us each day, that we have not been punished as we should. That's His word, not mine, yet I have lived it to know it.

Abortion should not be legalized, especially not to the degree that it has been. You speak of the government or man's laws placing one in jail for this as wrong, yet it's GOD's law, not man that carries this penalty. To be truthful most of the laws we've seen changed to conform to man's sinful nature, were originally based on God's commandments.

Legalized abortion was designed by man and man alone. It's already gone way beond it's original intent to protect mothers in danger of complications and rape and molested victims.

You cannot make this right by saying God gave us the gift of free choice, for free choice is not a license to sin or to change God's commandments.

Is is right for a teenager to have an abortion without parental knowledge or consent? No, and it never will be. YET, legalized has taken license to make this a law. A law with a cover up lie that it's their right to do so. This deserves penality, for it goes against parental rights as God has ordained. Abortions are not a method of birth control, cover up for sin, nor to be free of an unwanted pregnancy. Free choice doesn't make this right. When God gives us a 'gift' He expects us to honor Him with it and to use our free choice wisely.

As for forcing one to serve, honor God, of course you cannot make a person do anything. But you can't be a doormat and not take and maintain your stand for God and what's right. We can't stand with wet noodles for legs and feet. We have to stand firm and not fear man.

Jesus didn't hesitate to speak the truth, whether it was warm or cold in tone. He didn't bite His tongue with the religious rulers; He even called a woman a dog when she sought Him to heal her daughter; He didn't hesitate to call King Herod a homosexual (a fox, meaning effemient one). Jesus wasn't a sissy in a white dress; He was a man and He is God!

There's no getting around the fact that abortion is murder and it can't be taken lightly. As Christians we cannot afford to not speak up and put a stop to this maddness. I'm not afraid of being offensive if it means not allowing the world to pollute this earth I live upon.

I have no doubt at all that you love the Lord and seek to please Him. But we cannot sit back and settle for what's being done in this system. As Christians, we have to have our voice heard and not back down. Some laws should never be, and legalized abortion without limits is one of them. Abortion is not a game. It should only be used for medical reasons and not just because a woman got caught and seeks it for convenience. Free choice is not a license to do so and it never will be. It's simply gone too far.

Take care

But Shimmie, that's just it...

We are not disagreeing that abortion is wrong, because it certainly is a sin. Further, it is misconstruing not just our point, but the Bible, to say that upholding the freedom of choice is condoning sin.

I agree that we have to stand firm. That is why those of us who believe abortion is wrong must choose against abortion in our own lives. We must live by example. We must be open to sharing this truth with others. That is not being a doormat, but practicing what we preach.

However, the Bible does not allow us to force our beliefs on anyone else and restrict their ability to chose right and wrong. I agree Jesus did not hesitate to speak the truth, but He never once forced anyone to follow Him. It must have pained Him greatly to see people choose not follow Him, to see so many people call for His death. What those people did was wrong, sending an innocent man to die...the Messiah to die. However, God the Father did not come down from heaven to stop it and neither did Jesus stop them from sending Him to die. That is our greatest example and always will be.

So yes, like Christ spoke out against sinfulness, we must speak out against abortion and make our voices heard, because it is wrong. However, like Christ, we must still allow people to choose. Freedom of choice is certainly not a license to do wrong and never will be. It is what the Bible explains it to be - the opportunity to choose who we will serve. Many will choose man and many will choose God. What we must do is make sure that we exemplify Christ in everything that we do - that we are living witnesses - so that by watching us, people will want to choose God for themselves.

God bless.

 

[Shimmie]

But Shimmie, that's just it...

We are not disagreeing that abortion is wrong, because it certainly is a sin. Further, it is misconstruing not just our point, but the Bible, to say that upholding the freedom of choice is condoning sin.

I agree that we have to stand firm. That is why those of us who believe abortion is wrong must choose against abortion in our own lives. We must live by example. We must be open to sharing this truth with others. That is not being a doormat, but practicing what we preach.

However, the Bible does not allow us to force our beliefs on anyone else and restrict their ability to chose right and wrong. I agree Jesus did not hesitate to speak the truth, but He never once forced anyone to follow Him. It must have pained Him greatly to see people choose not follow Him, to see so many people call for His death. What those people did was wrong, sending an innocent man to die...the Messiah to die. However, God the Father did not come down from heaven to stop it and neither did Jesus stop them from sending Him to die. That is our greatest example and always will be.

So yes, like Christ spoke out against sinfulness, we must speak out against abortion and make our voices heard, because it is wrong. However, like Christ, we must still allow people to choose. Freedom of choice is certainly not a license to do wrong and never will be. It is what the Bible explains it to be - the opportunity to choose who we will serve. Many will choose man and many will choose God. What we must do is make sure that we exemplify Christ in everything that we do - that we are living witnesses - so that by watching us, people will want to choose God for themselves.

God bless.

I agree with your post and I want to tell you that it is also beautifully written.

Hear me when I say, that people do have a right to choose. And we are to live by example.

Yet the laws are still wrong for they legalize murder. We have a generation who could care less about how we as Christians live by example. The laws of this land have been changed in total opposition to what God commands.

There's no such thing as the beautiful intent of sexual love between a man and a woman. Homosexuality has the law behind them; daring us and threatening us as Christians to even dare to speak against them, least we receive the penality.

Hear me, I know what you are sharing regarding free choice; yet it's over riding OUR free choice as God's chosen. And we cannot allow these laws to be; we simply cannot.

Legalized abortion was only the stargate and the open path to what we see occuring with gay marriages, gay rights, and the like. How so? If they dare to get by with that law, they dare to move on with another which opposes God's order and the path will continue which leads us to destruction.

People do not want to feel 'bad' or responsible for what they do wrong. So now laws are being 'imposed' (yes imposed) upon us to make it easier and easier for one to feel right about committing illegal offenses and other sins.

There has to be a standard. Do you even realize how many Christians who are taking full liberties with legalized abortion? The right to be gay? Churches who have compromised and have given in only to be the 'quote' 'loving example'.

It's not about free choice here. Neither is it forcing our beliefs upon anyone. This mess is affecting our children who live with us and whom we take to Church with us and live with our example and yet the law tells them it's okay to disobey and to totally disregard what they're being taught by us. Our children are being taught more by the world's example than ours. The world's influence is having their rule.

Having abortion laws restored to its original law of being a penalty is not taking away one's free choice. It's teaching this world that you cannot come against the natural order of things. It's teaches that you cannot be careless and committ a murder to justify it. One can still choose, but there is a penality for it. You cannot kill an innocent baby. Sin doesn't win.

What is it about abortion that it needs to be legalized? Sometimes I think Christians use the 'freedom of Choice' catch phrase as a 'Trump card', meaning that they may need this abortion law to remain 'free' in case they may need it. It's the same out for them as it is for the world.

Why not just legalize all crime and be done with all the courts, legal system, and the jails. Afterall, it's all about freedom of choice; so let everyone have their freedom and enjoy it. Bottomline, this can't happen and neither should it be that way with abortion. It's as wrong as these other offenses, if not worse.

Abortion needs to go back to being illegal.

Again divya, your post is beautifully shared. It really is. I hope that I'm not offending you for it is not my intent at all. You take care angel. I wish you and your family a wonderful and happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

What will it profit a man (a woman in this case) if he/she gains the whole world and lose his/her soul?

Some people just need to realize that God is God and there is no skirting around the truth. Say what you must, but in the end...God shall get the Glory in the lives of those who CHOOSE TO DO HIS WILL!

 

[cheetarah1980]

I agree with your post and I want to tell you that it is also beautifully written.

Hear me when I say, that people do have a right to choose. And we are to live by example.

Yet the laws are still wrong for they legalize murder. We have a generation who could care less about how we as Christians live by example. The laws of this land have been changed in total opposition to what God commands.

There's no such thing as the beautiful intent of sexual love between a man and a woman. Homosexuality has the law behind them; daring us and threatening us as Christians to even dare to speak against them, least we receive the penality.

Hear me, I know what you are sharing regarding free choice; yet it's over riding OUR free choice as God's chosen. And we cannot allow these laws to be; we simply cannot.

Legalized abortion was only the stargate and the open path to what we see occuring with gay marriages, gay rights, and the like. How so? If they dare to get by with that law, they dare to move on with another which opposes God's order and the path will continue which leads us to destruction.

People do not want to feel 'bad' or responsible for what they do wrong. So now laws are being 'imposed' (yes imposed) upon us to make it easier and easier for one to feel right about committing illegal offenses and other sins.

There has to be a standard. Do you even realize how many Christians who are taking full liberties with legalized abortion? The right to be gay? Churches who have compromised and have given in only to be the 'quote' 'loving example'.

It's not about free choice here. Neither is it forcing our beliefs upon anyone. This mess is affecting our children who live with us and whom we take to Church with us and live with our example and yet the law tells them it's okay to disobey and to totally disregard what they're being taught by us. Our children are being taught more by the world's example than ours. The world's influence is having their rule.

Having abortion laws restored to its original law of being a penalty is not taking away one's free choice. It's teaching this world that you cannot come against the natural order of things. It's teaches that you cannot be careless and committ a murder to justify it. One can still choose, but there is a penality for it. You cannot kill an innocent baby. Sin doesn't win.

What is it about abortion that it needs to be legalized? Sometimes I think Christians use the 'freedom of Choice' catch phrase as a 'Trump card', meaning that they may need this abortion law to remain 'free' in case they may need it. It's the same out for them as it is for the world.

Why not just legalize all crime and be done with all the courts, legal system, and the jails. Afterall, it's all about freedom of choice; so let everyone have their freedom and enjoy it. Bottomline, this can't happen and neither should it be that way with abortion. It's as wrong as these other offenses, if not worse.

Abortion needs to go back to being illegal.

Again divya, your post is beautifully shared. It really is. I hope that I'm not offending you for it is not my intent at all. You take care angel. I wish you and your family a wonderful and happy Thanksgiving.

I totally get what you're saying. And in a Christian nation God's law would trump man's law any time. The thing is, we cannot use Christian standards to set the laws of this country because there is no state sanctioned religion.

We can teach our children that the laws of this land are not always in line with God's laws and commands. And we can teach them that God's law trumps any nation's law any day.

The only solution to this problem would be to turn America into a theocratic state and I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Shimmie]

I totally get what you're saying. And in a Christian nation God's law would trump man's law any time. The thing is, we cannot use Christian standards to set the laws of this country because there is no state sanctioned religion.

We can teach our children that the laws of this land are not always in line with God's laws and commands. And we can teach them that God's law trumps any nation's law any day.

The only solution to this problem would be to turn America into a theocratic state and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Thanks Cheetarah... Not just for me, but for all of us. The bolded made me smile and then say hmmmmm, and then 'wonder' :scratchch:

You know..... this country was 'founded' on Biblical principles in totality and it thrived and God honored it and blessed us. However, we're losing ground and we can't just accept it. God honors and protects those who love Him. He heals their land.

This world had total disregard that...

The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof and they and all that dwell therein. (Psalm 24). How dare anyone walk this earth and ignore God and God's gift of life and all that He has given us to have life...abundantly.

Cheetarah, I noticed a few months ago, that on the new dollar coins, they have eliminated 'In God We Trust." I was shocked! How sad...how very sad. Who else can one trust...surely not man.

Proverbs 29 is so interesting to me regarding this topic...I've been reading it line by line and then meditating and reflecting upon the verses individually. Check this out.

Verse 2: When the godly are in authority, the people rejoice. But when the wicked are in power, they groan... (I'm groaning for sure).

Verse 16: When the wicked are in authority, sin flourishes, but the godly will live to see their downfall.

Cheetarah, this confirms what you shared in your post above, teaching our children that man's laws are not always in line with God's laws...

Verse 17: Discipline your children, and they will give you peace of mind
and will make your heart glad.

This is where our country is...

Verse 18: When people do not accept divine guidance, they run wild. But whoever obeys the law is joyful.

This is so key here for many hear guidance, yet it is not heeded.
Verse 19: Words alone will not discipline a servant; the words may be understood, but they are not heeded.

This one is interesting for it fits many Christians and our government.

Verse 24: If you assist a thief, you only hurt yourself. You are sworn to tell the truth, but you dare not testify.

Many of us dare not challenge the government when it's wrong; yet we assist them as they 'steal' our rights to live for God. We've sworn ourselves to uphold God's word, yet we dare not testify againt the world's system, instead we 'accept' it and comply.

Then these verses followed...

Verse 25: Fearing people is a dangerous trap, but trusting the Lord means safety.

Verse 26: Many seek the ruler’s favor, but justice comes from the Lord.

And of course it comes to this...

Verse 27: The righteous despise the unjust; the wicked despise the godly.

Thanks again, your post brings this to more prayer and the need for us to be alert, mindful and not allow the government to go but so far, for we live in this world just as they do.

Now it's time to love and heal those who have gone through and affected by abortion. My battle is not with them, but the government who chose the wrong way out for them to get help.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones...

 

[Shimmie]

What will it profit a man (a woman in this case) if he/she gains the whole world and lose his/her soul?

Some people just need to realize that God is God and there is no skirting around the truth. Say what you must, but in the end...God shall get the Glory in the lives of those who CHOOSE TO DO HIS WILL!

Hey Darlin...

Don't let me get into 'office'..... You think I'm a 'terror' to the devil now...... I see more herds of pigs drowning in the ocean.

Love you sis...

Wavy...why do you allow me to get loose in threads like this? You 'know' you can't leave me alone for one second. Maybe two seconds.

 

[Poohbear]

you didn't even address my other examples of SIN not being punishable by MAN's LAW. Not suprised. Because you cannot reconcile Man's Law with God's law.

And No, YOU disagree with God. You disagree with God's gift of free choice. God never intended for us to live in a sinful world. But yet we are here. Why? Because he gave Adam and Eve and you and I FREE CHOICE. There will be consequences for sin on this earth and at judgement. You cannot exact God's punishment. All you and this government can give is what you deem is a acceptable punishment. What is it? Two years, 5 years in jail, the death penalty? Whatever it is, it is not God's judgement. It is only Man's. This is not equal to God's judgement.

And once again you a wrong! I do believe that it is a baby. I also believe a sin is abomonation to God but I refuse to let a SECULAR government take the place of GOD. The United States is not biblical ISRAEL. This country cannot be trusted to enforce GOD's laws. The best a secular government can do is regulate laws between man NOT between man and GOD. And even that it is not doing well.

You give government the right to enforce your beliefs, don't be surprised when one day THEIR beliefs will be forced on you.

I agree that God gave us the freedom to choose. Without choice, Adam would have been a prisoner forced to obey. The two trees in the Garden of Eden presented an exercise in choice, with rewards for choosing to obey and sad consequences for choosing to disobey. HOWEVER, when faced with a choice, choose to obey God. Yes, we have all made bad choices and suffer consequences for our sins, but we should always learn and grow and make better choices in the future.

As far as having the government legislate morality... I agree with you too. I do not want the government to take place of God either. That's like legalism, which is a distortion of Christianity. We can't live by a long list of "don'ts." God's favor is NOT earned by good behavior. We should recognize that real change brought about by GOD should lead to changes in behavior. God's love is something to accept freely, not something to earn.

By the way, I am a Christian that is PRO-LIFE. I agree with Shimmie's other posts regarding abortion = killing = sin = against God. But I do not think we should legislate morality or punish people for their sins... that should be left up to GOD and GOD alone.

 

[PaperClip]

This might not make much sense but I'll say it anyway:

With regard to governmental intervention and "punishment" regarding abortion....

The government kind of does this when a pregnant woman is murdered, e.g., Laci Peterson. I believe Scott Peterson was convicted of TWO MURDERS...the wife/mother and the unborn child....

By definition, abortion means "the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus" (www.m-w.com).

Also included in the above is the point of miscarriage, which, for example, can happen "on purpose" or "by unexplained, or unintentional means"....

According to the Bible: murder is the shedding of INNOCENT blood...that it was done ON PURPOSE....

So...(and I'm thinking out loud here), once the egg and the sperm meet up, that's a zygote(?) and/or an embryo...and that embryo is INNOCENT because it has not committed any harmful acts against another and of course, has no knowledge of evil... by definition, innocent means "free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil"....

I said all that to say that in terms of government intervention with this matter, I would prefer that my tax dollars not go toward abortion issues because I feel like that would mean that I'm supporting abortion indirectly. And of course, there are MANY other things that I may be supporting indirectly that I don't agree with and that goes against my spiritual/religious beliefs.

The question came up about women being punished by law for having an abortion.... Hmmm.... I suppose the government cannot justify punishing a woman for afflicting her own body... and then that might be hypocritical to do because then that might open the door for government to control other things regarding our bodies, e.g., sterilization, immunizations, restriction of certain health care options, etc.

Plus, a woman who goes through an abortion (before, during, and after) probably deals with so much inner turmoil, maybe that's punishment enough.... And so because the Lord is sovereign, merciful, forgiving, He puts ministries on people's hearts, like the OP, to minister to them....

Again, this is just me thinking out loud....

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

I totally get what you're saying. And in a Christian nation God's law would trump man's law any time. The thing is, we cannot use Christian standards to set the laws of this country because there is no state sanctioned religion.

We can teach our children that the laws of this land are not always in line with God's laws and commands. And we can teach them that God's law trumps any nation's law any day.

The only solution to this problem would be to turn America into a theocratic state and I don't see that happening any time soon.

Thank you. This is what I'm doing with my children. God's law is above any so called law this country has.

 

[Shimmie]

This might not make much sense but I'll say it anyway:

With regard to governmental intervention and "punishment" regarding abortion....

The government kind of does this when a pregnant woman is murdered, e.g., Laci Peterson. I believe Scott Peterson was convicted of TWO MURDERS...the wife/mother and the unborn child....

By definition, abortion means "the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus" (www.m-w.com).

Also included in the above is the point of miscarriage, which, for example, can happen "on purpose" or "by unexplained, or unintentional means"....

According to the Bible: murder is the shedding of INNOCENT blood...that it was done ON PURPOSE....

So...(and I'm thinking out loud here), once the egg and the sperm meet up, that's a zygote(?) and/or an embryo...and that embryo is INNOCENT because it has not committed any harmful acts against another and of course, has no knowledge of evil... by definition, innocent means "free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil"....

I said all that to say that in terms of government intervention with this matter, I would prefer that my tax dollars not go toward abortion issues because I feel like that would mean that I'm supporting abortion indirectly. And of course, there are MANY other things that I may be supporting indirectly that I don't agree with and that goes against my spiritual/religious beliefs.

The question came up about women being punished by law for having an abortion.... Hmmm.... I suppose the government cannot justify punishing a woman for afflicting her own body... and then that might be hypocritical to do because then that might open the door for government to control other things regarding our bodies, e.g., sterilization, immunizations, restriction of certain health care options, etc.

Plus, a woman who goes through an abortion (before, during, and after) probably deals with so much inner turmoil, maybe that's punishment enough.... And so because the Lord is sovereign, merciful, forgiving, He puts ministries on people's hearts, like the OP, to minister to them....

Again, this is just me thinking out loud....

Excellent thoughts RR and you're speaking the truth.

I love and totally agree with what you shared about your tax dollars going towards the support of abortion. And you are so right about our money supporting many other things that we do not comply with.

I wouldn't wish jail on anyone. But there are some actions that need to recognized as illegal and abortion is definitely one of them. Many women do not have a care neither a conscious regarding abortion, they just feel it's their 'right' and/or their pro choice; and they get up and walk away without one thought about what they've done. The ones who 'kill' their babies at 20 weeks...ohhhh, this one makes me so scared. The baby can hear, and feel EVERYTHING and the baby even cries. And someone takes an instrument and probes the base of their scull and draws life from them. These are the ones who need some time in the 'cooler'. Mericiful Heaven. It's not a game with this.

You mentioned the Scott / Lacie Peterson case and this man did take two lives on purpose. And that's the point, with abortion, an innocent life is being taken on purpose, so it's not the 'mother's free choice that trumps her baby's right to live; it's not her right to end her baby's life, nor anyone else's right to end this baby's life.

This baby is a separate life and separate body and separate rights from hers and she has no right to take these rights away from this life growing inside of her. This foolishness about Pro Choice is just that, foolishness.

Christians are not the only persons who believe this. Jews, Muslims, Indians, Asians, actually all cultures believe that abortion is murder and do not support it, neither do they cover it up with 'free or pro choice' foolishness. They call it what is, a crime. But in every culture and/or faith, there will always be those who falter and go astray. Why? To keep from taking responsibilty for what they know to be wrong.

I've just had it with this foolishness in our government and this country's weak mindset, that's all.

Anyhoo.........

((( Hugs ))) back to you "RR" from your previous post.

Happy Loving and joyful Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones.

____________

I logged in the other day ONLY to answer a PM; low and behold this thread pulled me in. I'm supposed to be cleaning my house for this holiday weekend. Oh well...

I wish EVERYONE a very loving and happy Thankgiving holiday. Be safe, be loved and be happy.

 

[Poohbear]

This might not make much sense but I'll say it anyway:

With regard to governmental intervention and "punishment" regarding abortion....

The government kind of does this when a pregnant woman is murdered, e.g., Laci Peterson. I believe Scott Peterson was convicted of TWO MURDERS...the wife/mother and the unborn child....

By definition, abortion means "the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus" (www.m-w.com).

Also included in the above is the point of miscarriage, which, for example, can happen "on purpose" or "by unexplained, or unintentional means"....

According to the Bible: murder is the shedding of INNOCENT blood...that it was done ON PURPOSE....

So...(and I'm thinking out loud here), once the egg and the sperm meet up, that's a zygote(?) and/or an embryo...and that embryo is INNOCENT because it has not committed any harmful acts against another and of course, has no knowledge of evil... by definition, innocent means "free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil"....

I said all that to say that in terms of government intervention with this matter, I would prefer that my tax dollars not go toward abortion issues because I feel like that would mean that I'm supporting abortion indirectly. And of course, there are MANY other things that I may be supporting indirectly that I don't agree with and that goes against my spiritual/religious beliefs.

The question came up about women being punished by law for having an abortion.... Hmmm.... I suppose the government cannot justify punishing a woman for afflicting her own body... and then that might be hypocritical to do because then that might open the door for government to control other things regarding our bodies, e.g., sterilization, immunizations, restriction of certain health care options, etc.

Plus, a woman who goes through an abortion (before, during, and after) probably deals with so much inner turmoil, maybe that's punishment enough.... And so because the Lord is sovereign, merciful, forgiving, He puts ministries on people's hearts, like the OP, to minister to them....

Again, this is just me thinking out loud....

Excellent thoughts! Especially the bolded part. But it's sad when some women do not feel any remorse for getting an abortion...

I do have a question... does our tax dollars really go toward paying for abortions? How do you all know? I thought the women who get the abortions are the ones paying for it.

 

[PaperClip]

Excellent thoughts! Especially the bolded part. But it's sad when some women do not feel any remorse for getting an abortion...

I do have a question... does our tax dollars really go toward paying for abortions? How do you all know? I thought the women who get the abortions are the ones paying for it.

I did a quick Google search....

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/public_funding.html

Medicaid Spending
Medicaid is the largest form of aid to the states from the federal government, comprising 43% of all federal grants.5 As the national economy has worsened, state tax revenue has lessened and health care costs have continued to rise. This resulted in more people eligible for Medicaid.6 This has placed pressure on states to control Medicaid costs, typically the second-largest budget expenditure.7 The federal government is also looking at scaling back Medicaid funding, and the Bush administration has proposed to reduce Medicaid spending by $35 billion over the next ten years. These cuts will especially impact women.

The Hyde Amendment
After Roe v. Wade decriminalized abortion in 1973, Medicaid covered abortion care without restriction. In 1976, Representative Henry Hyde (R-IL) introduced an amendment that later passed to limit federal funding for abortion care. Effective in 1977, this provision, known as the Hyde Amendment, specifies what abortion services are covered under Medicaid.
Over the past two decades, Congress has debated the limited circumstances under which federal funding for abortion should be allowed. For a brief period of time, coverage included cases of rape, incest, life endangerment, and physical health damage to the woman. However, beginning in 1979, the physical health exception was excluded, and in 1981 rape and incest exceptions were also excluded.
In September 1993, Congress rewrote the provision to include Medicaid funding for abortions in cases where the pregnancy resulted from rape or incest. The present version of the Hyde Amendment requires coverage of abortion in cases of rape, incest, and life endangerment.

Challenges to Hyde
The first challenges to the Hyde Amendment came shortly after its implementation. The Supreme Court has held that the Hyde Amendment restrictions are constitutional8 and that states participating in Medicaid are only required to cover abortion services for which they receive federal funding rather than all medically necessary abortions.9 Challenges under state constitutions have been more successful. Several lawsuits have been brought in individual states arguing that state constitutions afford greater protection for privacy and equal protection than the federal Constitution.10

Implementation of the Hyde Amendment
The Hyde Amendment affects only federal spending. States are free to use their own funds to cover additional abortion services. For example, Hawaii, New York, and Washington have enacted laws funding abortions for health reasons. Other states, such as Maryland, cover abortions for women whose pregnancies are affected by fetal abnormalities or present serious health risks. These expansions are important steps toward ensuring equal access to health care for all women.
Prior to the 1993 expansion of the Hyde Amendment, thirty states chose not to use their own Medicaid funds to cover abortions for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest.11 Initially, a number of states expressed resistance to comply with the expanded Hyde Amendment, and presently thirteen states are under court orders to comply and cover rape and incest in addition to life endangerment.12 Every court that has considered the Hyde Amendment's application to a state's Medicaid program since 1993 has held that states continuing to participate in the Medicaid program must cover abortions resulting from rape or incest in order to be compliant with the Hyde Amendment, regardless of state laws that may be more restrictive.

State Funding for Abortion under Medicaid​

Funding under Hyde Amendment Only: Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, and Wyoming.

Hyde Amendment and Additional Health Circumstances: Indiana (physical health), Iowa (fetal abnormality), Mississippi (fetal abnormality), Utah (physical health and fetal abnormality), Virginia (fetal abnormality), and Wisconsin (physical health).
All or Most Health Circumstances: Alaska, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Vermont, Washington, and West Virginia.

Noncompliant with the Hyde Amendment: South Dakota (life endangerment only).


I'd like to say here that the abortion issue is so complex, sensitive. I believe that (most) women who decide to have an abortion are going through serious turmoil about it. I think that when a woman is desperate enough to abort, that they will go to any means to do so, even risking her life. Public funding abortions would seem to be a way for women to reduce her risk because it is done as a formal medical procedure versus a horrible back-alley clothes hanger situation. I don't want to see a woman risk her life (or the baby's life) like that.

I hope a Solomon-type solution emerges quickly....