Black Stylist Biased Against Natural Hair

[Tracy]

Adding to clarify - the dscirimination is also premised on the fact - that if you were suing the salon above, as a black woman with natural hair, for DISCRIMINATION how would you explain to a court that she is black, and you are black but there's discrimination because of hair?

You want to lay out the argument for me as to that? How do you convince a court of law that black people discriminate against eachother based on hairtype? And then ask them to hold someone LIABLE for violating your RIGHT to get your hair done by another black person who doesn't want to, or doesn't know how, to do your hair...

Even as I type that I'm floored.

That is NONSENSE.

 

[DDHair]

True, there is nothing discriminatory about that, it's just a matter of people not feeling like doing the job that they went to school for.

This is off topic, but it reminds me of a local dept store here in Texas. Last Friday & Saturday they were giving away $15 gift cards to the first 300 customers. However, Friday, one of the outside doors was not open and in fact they did not open that door till 10 minutes after the store actually opened. People were livid! My sister and I joined the congregation of folks that complained to the guy in charge that day, but we thought it better to put paper to pen and go to customer service. Once we talked to the people in customer service, we were given the cards, but the next day the company made up for it and gave cards to people via the manager signing sheets of paper and basically giving her word and that day all 3 doors were open. Anyway, to make a long story short, a lady who I saw the day before, asked for our number because she was going to write a letter to the store saying that it was discrimination because it was in a Black neighborhood, etc., but in all honesty, the store did not practice good company policy by posting a sign on the locked door letting customers know that the door would not be opened and on top of that the guy in charge that day had a stank attitude about it. I am saying this to say that no, everything is not always about discrimination, it is about bad work ethics and poor customer service and policies.

So the lady in this article, instead of filing suit, should make others aware of the differential attitude being given toward te maintenence of natural hair, she is doing the right thing, because she is not alone in feeling this.

 

[DDHair]

In fact, the type of wording the co-owner and other worker used is what tends to get a lot of people in trouble in the customer service arena. Instead of saying we cannot accomodate you, maybe she could have added at this time or today, because saying that they cannot is not true because they have done it before, at least the salon as a whole has accomodated her before, what she said could have made it sound like we never can accomodate you. On top of that, I know somebody in that salon knows how to wash and flat iron, if they didn't think they had time to accomodate her, that should have been made clear also.

 

[Jubilee]

I just find it funny that they don't know how to style the natural hair that grows out from their scalps.

 

[Chimma]

Tracy, I don't what you are saying when you say there is no such thing as "black hair." There are substantive differences between caucasian, asian, and african hair. I take black to mean of African descent. Maybe that is where we differ on this word? L'oreal, pantene, and clairol all have websites where they show the differences between the hair of different races. I think you have to justify its lack of existence against scientific evidence saying African hair has less sulfur proteins, has a different curl pattern, etc. which I can point you to if you would like.

And as for saying that hair texture is not an aspect of race.
"Discrimination on the basis of an immutable characteristic associated with race, such as skin color, hair texture, or certain facial features violates Title VII, even though not all members of the race share the same characteristic."
I'm getting this from the U.S. government's web page on Equal Opportunity that clarifies Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-race.html You can find the same quote on sites ranging from lawhelp.com to www.chicagolegalnet.com. I do not believe that what you wrote about skin color being the only legal mark of race is true or should be true or that discrimination based on hair texture does not exist.

If a black woman went into a white salon where anti-discrimination laws are applicable and they refused to style her hair in any way because she would not permanently alter her hair texture, she would have a case. I don't see why it should be any different for black salons. The reason I would want them to need to make the attempt is not because I want to throw a "foot-stomping, kicking and screaming tantrum," but because I believe that people realizing that they need to make the attempt to treat unprocessed hair will make it more likely for them to want to learn how to do it well.

For me this comes down to: If I were to come to a situation where no one would even try to do my hair in any way because I refused to permanently alter its texture, I would believe that should be morally and legally wrong. You would not. Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

 

[ricochet]

Thank the good Lord in Heaven that I know how to do my own natural hair, as thick as it is.

 

[Chimma]

Maybe I'm generalizing more than from the specific case as it seemed in the article that when the regular stylist returned she could get some service, and she solved her problem all right. But I could really feel her anger and frustration that she could not find a single place that was willing to do her hair, and I really felt it as well as a person who is transitioning.

When I only had like 1-2 inch of natural hair and the rest shoulder length relaxed hair, I was getting ish from stylists to do something as simple as a blowdry and a trim, although they did do it for me. I just wonder how it would have been if I was full out natural, and if I will be able to find a single place in the future to just give me a cute do that I don't have to do myself or a little trim to keep my ends nice. And it just annoys me that black stylists cannot do our hair without needing it to be permanently changed to a different texture? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Nyambura]

I know this is OT, but understand what Tracy was saying. That's awesome, Chimma, that you took the initiative to research legal sites on the issue of racial discrimination.

I definitely don't want to take away from that. But the section of Title VII you linked to only applies to employment discrimination. It would not help the author of the article, in this case.

 

[Tracy]

Did you honey? That's good - because I should have been taking a take home exam, was in the library, and have not been to sleep in 16 hours....

That anyone could understand what the heck I was talking about is unreal.

Not only is the cite to the EEOC (and so has to do with employment) but hair characteristics - without any RACIAL discrimination as the context - is still not actionable.

The general idea you cited, Chimma, is fair enough but there still has to be an element of racial discrimination. As between a black salon owner and a black natural - that would not exist.

Now - TO BED, TO BED, TO BED I SAID!!!

{{{{dang I'm tired}}}}...

Me voy.

 

[Chimma]

Ah, Tracy. I finally get what you were trying to say. Don't know why I didn't see it before, and I'm not sure why I do now after reading your last post.

It's a good point. Black salons choosing to style ONLY straight hair or loosely curled hair IS a legal choice they can make since they still service black women who have changed their hair. They can choose to style almost all caucasian hair, asian hair, most latin american hair, and all black hair that has either been relaxed or is naturally very loosely curled or straight.

But it still seems really wrong to me. That's a black salon choosing to service almost all white children and very few black children, to style the natural hair of any race except black with few exceptions. And many black salons as a whole have made this decision to not service black hair that hasn't been permanently straightened. I personally think that is sad, and I don't know why they would do this but I guess I have to give mad props to all the natural sistahs who weren't lucky enough to find a black salon that services all types of black hair for a day off from styling. And think about whether cosmetology schools have started to explore the options of learning more about black hair for the future graduates.

 

[SVT]

[ QUOTE ]
Chimma said:
Ah, Tracy. I finally get what you were trying to say. Don't know why I didn't see it before, and I'm not sure why I do now after reading your last post.

It's a good point. Black salons choosing to style ONLY straight hair or loosely curled hair IS a legal choice they can make since they still service black women who have changed their hair. They can choose to style almost all caucasian hair, asian hair, most latin american hair, and all black hair that has either been relaxed or is naturally very loosely curled or straight. ..

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep! I think this is what Tracy was saying too.

Our agree with you Chimma and other posters about the need for cosmetology schools to teach their students about or at least offer courses on styling and caring for naturally non-straight hair.

The woman in the article has no basis for suing IMO.

 

[Valerie]

Very interesting article. Thank you, we have still a long way to go.

 

[deeplyrooted]

i'm feeling this article completely.

making people pay through the nose for hair care is ridiculous.

the way i see it is this; charge by the length, not by the texture of the hair. knowing what i know now about my hair, all i need to do is put some conditioner in my hair for a minute or two, let it sit, then i can run my fingers through my hair, rinse the conditioner out and my hair will be pliable enough to do whatever style without taking extra time or "labor."

longer hair, regardless of texture, takes longer to care for, so, by all means, charge more. but to make an argument that those with natural hair, just on the basis of it being natural, should automatically be charged more than our permed sistahs is crazy and the exact discriminatory behavior that this writer is talking about.

just my 0.02 cents.

 

[shelli4018]

Personally, I'm interested in knowing why there's such a big price difference between Dominican and Black salons!? I mean, are we getting ripped off or what?

 

[sassygirl125]

Almost everything Black-owned costs more.

 

[shelli4018]

I don't know why. It seems many black companies don't do much research and development. Otherwise, 90% of the products at the BSS wouldn't have mineral oil or petrolatum in them. You can buy comparable white products at walmart for $1! But I dare you to use any black product that costs that little. I guess we've bought into the fallacy that black hair (relaxed or natural) costs more because it's harder to manage?

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
nbcgurl22 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Mindymouse said:
[ QUOTE ]
nbcgurl22 said:
Maybe in your book natural hair is hard to manage but to me it isn't. My natural hair is so much easier to manage than my relaxed hair was. I mean what is easier than a wash and go??

I think that natural hair is harder to take care of is a just a negitive stereotype that people place on natural hair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Our hair is very diversified, Grades (type) very so I guess that would depend on the individual some would be easier than others. In my case, being tenderhead and having down the back thick hair it was a struggle. I always say it was a fight and it beat me everytime.. LOL

There was ABSOLUTELY no way I could "wash and go"...
Pa-lease.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pa-lease, every natural can wear a wash and go! And what is this grade of hair stuff??? Are we in the dark ages again - our hair is something akin to milk

[/ QUOTE ]

NBCggurl Honey. You know that's what we use on these boards HAIR TYPES, you know 2, 2a, 3 etc.
come on now. Are you in the Dark Ageas

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
Tracy said:
nbcgurl,


Just playing devil's advocate...

What if "every natural" doesn't PREFER a wash and go. Isn't our hair, after all, a testament to our personal sense of style?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, I don't think that's "devils advocate", cause I did'nt like fros in the sixties and I don't like them now, which is to me whats wash and go so, no I could not to wash and go.