I don't understand why believers refer to themselves as sinners

[alexstin]

In the scriptures there is a clear distinction between sinners and the children of God. I hear a lot from believers that "we are all sinners". In my eyes, a sinner is someone who has no relationship with the Father and willfully "practices" sin which is completely different from the believer who may sin but ask for forgiveness or acknowledge the conviction of Holy Spirit and keep moving forward. Referring to myself as a sinner would be just as detrimental to me as referring to myself as stupid, hopeless, or unworthy of love.

So for those who see themselves as sinners even though they are a part of the Body of Christ could you tell me where this mindset stems from? I've just always wondered, that's all.

 

[mellowmel]

When I read this I thought about the Donnie McClurkin song "We Fall Down". "For a saint is just a sinner who fell down, but he didn't stay there, and got up." As a Christian I believe at times I sin or we all do at times. But we must get up and know we can't stay there and be content with being there. We must get up and get back on track to abiding by God's word. Some Christians may say well I don't sin. But, I don't think there is anything that we all do right. A little eye roll, mumbling at work, mad someone is driving too slow or cut you off, etc. Would Jesus do that? As a Christian we can discern when we have fallen short and know that we have to do better. So in short, yes, I'm a sinner but everyday I'm becoming more Christ-like. We will always only be Christ-like and never Christ. But I'm not continuing to live in my sin that I know is wrong, I'm changing more and more everyday.

 

[divya]

Here is the reason why...

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Christ died for all of us, even though we are sinners. We have never lived a perfect life as He did. It is only because of the grace of God - for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ - that we are saved.

 

[kayte]

But I'm not continuing to live in my sin that I know is wrong, I'm changing more and more everyday.

and that is admirable and of God ..

but I dare say in spite of my own best efforts to do the same I am not sinless...
everyday there is some sin I've committed...
& I,Kayte need to repent and ask forgiveness on a daily basis
or I would not need Christ
The Lord 's mercies are fresh every morning!

Peter was believer..yet...still a sinner...he denied Christ!
Paul acknowledged a thorn in the side ....{temptation }
to keep reliant upon God
Abraham lied about his wife Sarah
The bible is filled with believers who were sinners

David {a man after God's own heart} is a classic example of a believer ...devoted to God and yet..SINNER
he lusted after another mans wife, got her pregnant and had her husband killed
yet God still loved him

because
remember we do not fight ourserlves but there is an enemy
"the adversary the devil stalks like a roaring lion


the only human who was without sin
was/is Christ

 

[alexstin]

I suppose you may have an issue with my statement in another thread. So here is the reason why...

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Christ died for all of us, even though we are sinners. We have never lived a perfect life as He did. It is only because of the grace of God - for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ - that we are saved.

Your statement brought it back to the forefront of my thoughts but I've wanted to ask before. I take no issue with it. I know many believe this way and am just curious as to why. I acknowledged in my first post that we all have sinned since giving our hearts to God so that's not in question what I question is the scriptural basis for declaring that the redeemed still carry the title sinner.

A few verses up in the same chapter of Romans Paul says: But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?(rom 3:7)

How do you differentiate between those that the Father calls sinners in the scriptures and those He calls righteous?

 

[kayte]

But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?(rom 3:7)

This is actually a rhetorical/ therotical question..it's not being asked literally
it's for sake of arguement or Paul is playing devil's advocate

Paul is saying a {new} believer might ask the same question, you OP are asking and so he goes on...to explain how some Christians might try to reason erroneously
they should not be called sinners under God's law

but Paul answers that is not realistic becasue according to God
As it is written, "Not even one person is righteous.
Romans 3:10

that is the context of that question in Romans
He is asking this hypothetically it to make a strong point...
to illustrate basically anyone who asks that question is misniformed
because he answers it with....Romans 3:7 with Romans 3:10

He goes on to say............

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

hth

 

[alexstin]

As it is written, "Not even one person is righteous.
Romans 3:10

So as a believer you don't consider you are righteous in Christ?

 

[divya]

Your statement brought it back to the forefront of my thoughts but I've wanted to ask before. I take no issue with it. I know many believe this way and am just curious as to why. I acknowledged in my first post that we all have sinned since giving our hearts to God so that's not in question what I question is the scriptural basis for declaring that the redeemed still carry the title sinner.

A few verses up in the same chapter of Romans Paul says: But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?(rom 3:7)

How do you differentiate between those that the Father calls sinners in the scriptures and those He calls righteous?

Well, I think it is important to realize our condition as sinners and thus our need for the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 3 actually goes on to talk about it...


7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"

8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin

10As it is written:"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."...

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

 

[alexstin]

This is rhetorical/ therotical question..it's not being asked literally
it's for sake of arguement or Paul is playing devil's advocate

Paul is saying a human might ask the same question, you OP are asking and so he goes on
to explain how some Christians might try to reason erroneously
they should not be called sinners under God's law

but Paul answers that is not realistic becasue according to God
As it is written, "Not even one person is righteous.
Romans 3:10

that is the context of that question in Romans
He is asking it ..to illustrate basically anyone who asks that question is misnifomeed
because he answers it with....Romans 3:7 with Romans 3:10


He goes on to say


Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

There is no one righteous without God since our righteousness in and of itself would be like filthy rags. We can't be righteous through the law I think we agree on that.

 

[kayte]

So as a believer you don't consider you are righteous in Christ?

rather ...Christ is righteous in me,a sinner...

 

[divya]

Sorry to double post what kayte already did...but I do understand the question alexstin. It's a really good one. I believe that when people make that statement, it is only a recognition of our state in and of ourselves. As you point out alex, any righteousness in us is through God...

 

[alexstin]

Well, I think it is important to realize our condition as sinners and thus our need for the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 3 actually goes on to talk about it...


7Someone might argue, "If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"

8Why not say—as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say—"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.

9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin

10As it is written:"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."...

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Verses 21 and 22 are what I'm referring to.
So in scriptures such as these do you believe God is talking to you as the righteous?:

Prov 11:31If the righteous will be rewarded in the earth, How much more the wicked and the sinner!

Prov 13:22 A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, And the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

 

[divya]

Verses 21 and 22 are what I'm referring to.
So in scriptures such as these do you believe God is talking to you as the righteous?:

Prov 11:31If the righteous will be rewarded in the earth, How much more the wicked and the sinner!

Prov 13:22 A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, And the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

Of course! In these verses, I understand the sinner to be the one who does not accept Christ. The righteous refers to those sinners saved by grace.

 

[kayte]

There is no one righteous without God since our righteousness in and of itself would be like filthy rags.

I'm confused...
with God in our lives and hearts..

Christians STILL have a hard time holding rightousness together
and so if your question is can we define ourselves as righteous and no longer define ourselves as sinners......

lol... I'd like to meet that righteous person...I don't believe such a person exists
except for the one who died for us

ETa
I just read read you other post
yes I agree with below

Of course! In these verses, I understand the sinner to be the one who does not accept Christ. The righteous refers to those sinners saved by grace

Semantics

the differentiation is believer and non-believer
as to the righteous and non-righteous
but the rightoeus are still acknloweldged by our God as sinners even though we have been saved through Christ from the wages of sin

 

[alexstin]

Sorry to double post what kayte already did...but I do understand the question alexstin. It's a really good one. I believe that when people make that statement, it is only a recognition of our state in and of ourselves. As you point out alex, any righteousness in us is through God...

Okay, I was like....are y'all understanding me or what?

 

[kayte]

Okay, I was like....are y'all understanding me or what

I got it!

finally

 

[divya]

Okay, I was like....are y'all understanding me or what?

Yes and I think it's really good to clarify these issues. It made me go back and really think about what Christ in me really means. We who are called righteous in the Word are those sinners who are no longer a slave to sin, to the flesh. For me, at least, when I say we are all sinners, I mean that we all have that struggle against the flesh. But through Christ we are not bound to sin or its wages, we can live righteousness through Him and His gift to us is eternal life.

Romans 6:16-23
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[alexstin]

I'm confused...
with God in our lives and hearts..

Christians STILL have a hard time holding rightousness together
and so if your question is can we define ourselves as righteous and no longer define ourselves as sinners......

lol... I'd like to meet that righteous person...I don't believe such a person exists
except for the one who died for us

it seems important for you to not define yourself as a sinner...is that correct?
trying to understand

Yes, we, as believers do struggle but I just don't see that struggle as equal to the unredeemed man, the "sinner" and I don't see them as equal because God went out of His way to make a distinction between those who are "of Him" and those who are "of the wrold".

For me, if He took the time to make a distinction between the "sinner" and the "righteous" then I want to make sure that what comes out of my mouth aligns with that for He alone has "wrapped me with a robe of righteousness".

 

[alexstin]

Yes and I think it's really good to clarify these issues. It made me go back and really think about what Christ in me really means. We who are called righteous in the Word are those sinners who are no longer a slave to sin, to the flesh. For me, at least, when I say we are all sinners, I mean that we all have that struggle against the flesh. But through Christ we are not bound to sin or its wages, we can live righteousness through Him and His gift to us is eternal life.

Romans 6:16-23
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

You know, I figured it might be a matter of semantics because we all do really believe that God has done something special in us that we couldn't do on our own. Thanks for helping me to see "why". As I said, I've been wondering about that for a long time. I'm still not going to call myself a sinner though.

 

[Ramya]

You know, I figured it might be a matter of semantics because we all do really believe that God has done something special in us that we couldn't do on our own. Thanks for helping me to see "why". As I said, I've been wondering about that for a long time. I'm still not going to call myself a sinner though.

I agree. I'm not with that "I'm a sinner" stuff simply because I believe that I can speak that into existence. I'm good on that

 

[delitefulmane]

My pastor back at home poses this question in church! He asks all the sinners to stand/raise their hands. Then, he asks all the sinners saved by grace to stand. He goes on to explain that Jesus Christ died for ours sins. So we are still sinners but we are now SAVED BY GRACE!!

 

[alexstin]

I agree. I'm not with that "I'm a sinner" stuff simply because I believe that I can speak that into existence. I'm good on that

Exactly! Anything spoken over yourself is a declaration which shapes your future actions and thoughts.

 

[divya]

You know, I figured it might be a matter of semantics because we all do really believe that God has done something special in us that we couldn't do on our own. Thanks for helping me to see "why". As I said, I've been wondering about that for a long time. I'm still not going to call myself a sinner though.

It is, but you've made a point here...

Maybe we should say "sinner saved by grace" instead! That way we leave no room for confusion!

 

[mellowmel]

It is, but you've made a point here...

Maybe we should say "sinner saved by grace" instead! That way we leave no room for confusion!

I agree. I like the "sinner saved by grace" thing. Because I am no longer a sinner in terms of a non-believer not even attempting to change. But I am a sinner, now a believer, saved by the grace of God and learning new things to become more Christ-like daily.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Didnt read through the thread but...

We are all sinners and will remain that way until the day we die.

However what makes us different is we are repentant. In God's eyes, there are two people, repentant and unrepentant....believers and unbelievers. But we are all sinners and though we may be repentant, believers, we are still sinners.

 

[mymane]

I don't believe we,Christians, (those who make a habit of becoming more Christ-like etc.) are sinners because we don't purpose in our hearts to continually sin. We WERE sinners who have been saved by grace. Yes, we may have areas where we struggle and fall into temptation and commit a sin. However, we are able to confess, repent, and be forgiven. I don't think God is in Heaven calling us His "sinners saved by grace." Another way I look at it is from the perspective of a parent. We teach our kids to discern right from wrong so they won't grow to be bad children, teens etc. But even the most well-mannered child, armed with that knowledge, will do something bad from time to time, yet their parent won't say "hey i have a bad kid because they did xyz." Ultimately they're good because they strived to do so, but they slipped up. They learn from their mistakes (hopefully) so they won't slip up again, and keep it moving. It's the same with us Christians. God takes into account our flesh and knows that we will slip up from time to time (not purposely). That will not make us sinners BECAUSE we have been saved and BECAUSE we make a practice of being Christ-like, not a practice of sinning. I believe that if you make a HABIT of sinning with no kind of remorse then yes you are a sinner. That's just pure disrespect. And if you became a christian yet your lifestyle has never been any different compared to when you weren't saved, then I think that's more fitting of a "christian" being a sinner.

Sorry this post is so long. I wanted to say something the other day but couldn't put it clearly. But tonight I was reading 1 John 3:1-10(Life Application Bible), and it made everything perfectly clear for me. I think like someone else said that when most christians call themselves a sinner, it's semantics. Therefore, I hope these verses clears that up. Someone else please chime in. I hope I conveyed my take on it. Thanks for reading. (As you can see I don't post much, lol)

 

[alexstin]

I don't believe we,Christians, (those who make a habit of becoming more Christ-like etc.) are sinners because we don't purpose in our hearts to continually sin. We WERE sinners who have been saved by grace. Yes, we may have areas where we struggle and fall into temptation and commit a sin. However, we are able to confess, repent, and be forgiven. I don't think God is in Heaven calling us His "sinners saved by grace." Another way I look at it is from the perspective of a parent. We teach our kids to discern right from wrong so they won't grow to be bad children, teens etc. But even the most well-mannered child, armed with that knowledge, will do something bad from time to time, yet their parent won't say "hey i have a bad kid because they did xyz." Ultimately they're good because they strived to do so, but they slipped up. They learn from their mistakes (hopefully) so they won't slip up again, and keep it moving. It's the same with us Christians. God takes into account our flesh and knows that we will slip up from time to time (not purposely). That will not make us sinners BECAUSE we have been saved and BECAUSE we make a practice of being Christ-like, not a practice of sinning. I believe that if you make a HABIT of sinning with no kind of remorse then yes you are a sinner. That's just pure disrespect. And if you became a christian yet your lifestyle has never been any different compared to when you weren't saved, then I think that's more fitting of a "christian" being a sinner.

Sorry this post is so long. I wanted to say something the other day but couldn't put it clearly. But tonight I was reading 1 John 3:1-10(Life Application Bible), and it made everything perfectly clear for me. I think like someone else said that when most christians call themselves a sinner, it's semantics. Therefore, I hope these verses clears that up. Someone else please chime in. I hope I conveyed my take on it. Thanks for reading. (As you can see I don't post much, lol)

To the bolded, exactly...there's a distinct difference that God has made and so I line my words up with His. There is no scriptural basis for referring to the redeemed man as a "sinner". Have we all sinned, yes.

 

[divya]

To the bolded, exactly...there's a distinct difference that God has made and so I line my words up with His. There is no scriptural basis for referring to the redeemed man as a "sinner". Have we all sinned, yes.

Actually, even Paul referred to himself as a sinner. In fact, the chief of sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15 - This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The key is understanding that we are sinners saved by grace.

 

[alexstin]

Actually, even Paul referred to himself as a sinner. In fact, the chief of sinners.

1 Timothy 1:15 - This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

The key is understanding that we are sinners saved by grace.

Paul also said it's better to remain as he is, single, even though God ordained and blessed marriage as something good. God made a distinct difference between the righteous and the sinner. Scripture supports scripture and you will not find a biblical basis for calling redeemed man a sinner. I just keep it simple and declare over myself what God has already said.

As I said, I was just curious. We can agree to disagree.

 

[ChelzBoo]

we sin everyday.
thats why we must ask for forgiveness daily.
we usually categorize sins.
but eventhough we are all gods children... non the less we are still sinners.
praise the lord for loving us anyways.