Knowledge of Christ...but Lack of Belief and Relationship

[Poohbear]

For several years, I've attended church every Sunday and taught children the Bible. However, I have been going through periods of unbelief and diminishing faith. I am confused about what to believe anymore. The more and more I taught, the less and less sense the Bible made to me. It's like I have the knowledge, but slowly lost faith. I feel like good and bad things happen out of mere coincidence, not because of God's mighty power.

During church services, I have never really felt the spirit or felt like I wanted to jump up and down and clap and sing aloud like a lot of people I see in different churches. Then the pastor or a minister will try to say things in the pulpit like "If you don't get up and praise God, something's wrong with you" and other statements along that line. Am I lacking the Spirit if I'm mainly quiet during service?

But anyway, here are the main questions I have been wondering....

How do you know who you are in Christ?

How do you know you believe in Christ?

How do you know that you have a relationship with God?

How do you know that Christ really died on the cross for the punishment of our sins?

Why is Christ dying on the cross so significant for our lives today? Would we really be dying left and right when we sin against God if Jesus had not died?

It's so easy to say you "must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and Savior", but how do you know that you believe in your heart?

It's so easy to say you must have a relationship with God. But how do you have a relationship with God when God is supposedly a spirit? Just praying and reading the Bible and living like Christ as much as possible?

It's easy to say "all Scripture is God-breathed" or the inspired Word of God, but how do you know that for the fact WITHOUT reading 2 Timothy 3:16?

Why should I accept the statement "Christians will never stop sinning" but yet, people say "not everyone who proclaims to be Christian isn't saved or going to heaven because of how they live"? How are they living that's so different than you who still commit sin?

Why aren't Christians more united? Why are there two sides to every fundamental issue of the Bible? (ie. women preachers, faith vs works for salvation, baptism, trinity, big sins vs little sins, calvinism vs arminianism, sinless perfection vs sinning Christians, and more? Do I have to choose sides?

Can I go to Hell for not tithing 10% of my GROSS income?

Can I go to Hell for not participating in ALL church ministries and not attending a physical church building EVERY Sunday to worship God?

That's all the questions I have for now.

 

[Poohbear]

No takers at these questions? :eyebrows2

 

[Sharpened]

I will answer your questions as best I can soon, but I want to ask you a question for you to ponder: what are you willing to sacrifice to get closer to Him?

 

[Poohbear]

I will answer your questions as best I can soon, but I want to ask you a question for you to ponder: what are you willing to sacrifice to get closer to Him?

:sweet:

"What are you willing to sacrifice to get closer to Him?"

Good question!

One thing I would sacrifice is even more time for reading the Bible for myself rather than to teach others. I have stopped reading my Bible because of the confusion. I'm thinking about reading the Bible without any commentary and meditating on what the words are saying. I feel like I give a good amount of time in prayer throughout the day (not sure if "talking to myself" would be considered prayer).

Not worrying about what others think when it comes to certain Christian beliefs.

Ignoring negative thoughts.

Lastly, I would like to stop sinning. I know alot of Christians are against this idea, but I believe it's possible.

That's my little list. I'm not sure if those are considered sacrifices. I don't really do too much of anything else. I don't really watch much tv or shop. I live a pretty simple life of going to work and spending time with family, my boyfriend, and friends. I do spend a lot of time on the computer...maybe sacrifice the time I spend on the computer as well.

 

[luthiengirlie]

I will answer your questions as best I can soon, but I want to ask you a question for you to ponder: what are you willing to sacrifice to get closer to Him?

That was ON IT! It takes painful breaking out of mentalities, growing pains. It takes studying. It takes being alone. It takes wrestling with YHwH and yourself! Many are not willing to do that!

 

[luthiengirlie]

PoohBear read the Word absent of any human opinion. We're arrogant and always wanna be right. Let the Holy Spirit lead you. Good place to start. Look up Hebrew.

 

[luthiengirlie]

Oh and another thang. Ask Him Directly these questions. He aint scurred of the hard stuff. I suspect you're not the first to ask. Nor will you be the last. Write a journal for each of these questions.. Pray these questions, Thank Him for the answers. Pray. For the Holy Spirit to rule. Have an open heart. And Proceed!

 

[Jynlnd13]

Hi, I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge here. Now first let me say, I have been a believer all my life. Yet I still have not read the whole bible. I am working on it though. I want to make sure I am understanding correctly what the bible is saying to me, not what people are trying to tell me.



1) For me it's about the relationship, I believe I am in the body of Christ because I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. & That we can not go to the Father usless we believe in Jesus.



2) I know I believe in Christ because here was there for me in my hours of need in my darkest hour. But the most powerful for me is when I called upon the Holy Trinity when I couldn't shake these suidical thoughts, and it was really getting to me and as soon as I called for help whatever evil was holding me down and trying to harm me was removed. I literally felt a weight lift. I was able to relax, I was no longer tormented by my thoughts. That to me was enough to know that I could never leave or turn away from God. Plus I know that I am one of his chosen people, to me I think it's pretty great that I was chosen to be saved and loved by the highest power of all.



3) I think that is different for everyone, I can feel it in my Spirit. I talk to him all the time, I don't know what I personally would do if I didn't have him to talk to about everything.



4) Since I wasn't around back then I can't offer a witness report. But I believe that's true because God said it's true. Also if you notice Jesus is also spoken about in the 3 major religions, so to me I believe Jesus is brought up so often for a reason.



5) It is very import to our lives today, the bible is there to help us. But so is God. Just because times are different, that doesn't mean God is different. I don't really understand the second part of this question, because we are going to dead regardless.



6) It's not as if people have never questioned God, I can't think of who it was in the bible at them moment, but he questioned God as well. He knows we have questions. I'm sure he expects us to have questions and moments of wondering how is the possible, etc. You should maybe fast and talk to God during that time to help him show you, your relationship. What works for one person, might not work for you. God knows our hearts, so there is no point to lie when you are upset, confused, etc.



7) To me having a relationship with God is like having a relationship with anyone else. Yes he is a spirit, but we can talk to him in many ways. Praying, studying the word, and being Christ like are ways also. Like I said, you need to do what works for you, God will show you what works best your personal relationship with him.



8) I guess walking by faith and not by sight.



9) No one is perfect, no one could ever be perfect. This is where people start to turn away from God, because other PEOPLE have told them they are not good enough. I no longer worry about what people say, if their is something that needs to be addressed, I know God will put me back in line. Because the same people who think they are " Holy than thou" you don't answer to them, you answer to God. Say thanks and go on your way. If you feel like something they said needs to be addressed you can talk to God about that.



10) This one has been on my mind for sometime now, I don't go to Church anymore. Because the church these days are so watered down and mixed up and messed up. Not saying ALL churches are. I study alone with God, by myself and I feel I have learnt more this way. Personally it's hard to explain my reasoning for this without going into another subject. But There should not even be like 50 or however many denominations. There should only be what the bible says. The church has more rules than God, and that is something to look at when finding a church, do they stick to what the bible says or are they off doing their own things. Dont' choose a side, choose God's word. The bible, alot of things have gotten twisted over the years in Christianity so it might be good to do a little research that way you can make a choice for youself. I think these guy kind knows what he is talking about, you might want to check out what he has to say www.youtube.com/deathuntolife



11) No, I thought that was an Old testament law? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't God say to give what can you joyfully? There are bible verses about this. I will have to look them up.



12) No, I believe the actually day of worship is the Sabbath not sunday. But we should worship God everyday anyways. It's about your relationship and if you truly believe. Not if you missed a Sunday School meeting.



I think I got everything? Sorry if any of it is confusing.

 

[luthiengirlie]

MAy I humbly state one more thing?

 

[HWAY]

When I realized I suffered from religious exhaustion (and for me it was time to leave a high control group), I began reading the gospel of John, then I read the other gospels. It is very important to allow God's word to speak for itself. After 4 years, I still don't trust commentaries.
Pray to the Lord and tell him how you feel. I agree with luthiengirl. Allow yourself to be taught by the holy spirit.

 

[plainj]

Poohbear, I agree with the above posters. Get alone in your secret place and worship Him. He is truly a magnificent God. Honestly talk to Him and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. He will. Ask Him for clarity of His Word. He will open your eyes. I had to learn the hard way not to turn to people for answers but only to Him. Immerse yourself in His Word. He will reveal Himself. Sometimes it takes us getting away from everyone and totally and truly seeking Him and crying out to Him. Also, make sure you are open to hearing from Him. A lot of times we don't realize that God is talking to us in the simplest of ways. A lot of things we call coincidences are really God-incidences. I pray that God will fill you with overwhelming peace and an unending joy. I pray that you will see His glory and have a complete understanding of Him. God bless you.

 

[luthiengirlie]

The fact you're saying Poohbear: I'm not getting fulfilled. I aint satisfied. May be very well Adonai pushing you into something Deeper with Him. U have a hunger. And most people are content with baby food. YOU however are not. AND that is rare. And you are called!

 

[LovingLady]

I have been waiting for you to post something like this. My answers are in brown.

For several years, I've attended church every Sunday and taught children the Bible. However, I have been going through periods of unbelief and diminishing faith. I am confused about what to believe anymore. The more and more I taught, the less and less sense the Bible made to me. It's like I have the knowledge, but slowly lost faith. I feel like good and bad things happen out of mere coincidence, not because of God's mighty power.

During church services, I have never really felt the spirit or felt like I wanted to jump up and down and clap and sing aloud like a lot of people I see in different churches. Then the pastor or a minister will try to say things in the pulpit like "If you don't get up and praise God, something's wrong with you" and other statements along that line. Am I lacking the Spirit if I'm mainly quiet during service?

Everyone is not going to praise the Lord the same way. We were created differently so you are going to do things differently such as praising God. I have come to realize that when some people get to a certain level with God, they start to pass judgment on others (not intentionally). When they say things like this: "If you don't get up and praise God, something's wrong with you", it is one of those moments. They know first hand how AMAZING God is and whenever they see people sitting down and not giving God the praise they are thinking "how selfish, He is worthy to be praised" and things along that line. Try not to blame them, they just want you to give credit where credit is much due.

But anyway, here are the main questions I have been wondering....

How do you know who you are in Christ?

How do you know you believe in Christ?

How do you know that you have a relationship with God?

How do you know that Christ really died on the cross for the punishment of our sins?

Why is Christ dying on the cross so significant for our lives today? Would we really be dying left and right when we sin against God if Jesus had not died?

Christ dying on the cross was to pay the price for the sin that we commit. That doesn't mean that we should go around intentionally sinning, we should still learn from our mistakes and become better from them.

People would be dying not matter what, the only difference is that (without Christ) we would have a one way ticket to hell. Because of Jesus I am able to be with my Abba. Praise God.

It's so easy to say you "must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and Savior", but how do you know that you believe in your heart?

It's so easy to say you must have a relationship with God. But how do you have a relationship with God when God is supposedly a spirit? Just praying and reading the Bible and living like Christ as much as possible?

Are you referring to the holy spirit? If that is the case then that is God's spirit not God (unless I am wrong). My relationship with God includes, talking to Him (it is usually about nothing important), being obedient, learning more about Him. It is the same way you would have a relationship with anyone, you spend time with them.

It's easy to say "all Scripture is God-breathed" or the inspired Word of God, but how do you know that for the fact WITHOUT reading 2 Timothy 3:16?

Why should I accept the statement "Christians will never stop sinning" but yet, people say "not everyone who proclaims to be Christian isn't saved or going to heaven because of how they live"? How are they living that's so different than you who still commit sin?

Christians care when they sin, non-Christians do not. A Christian will try their best not to sin, they will strive to handle the situation the way Christ would. Whenever a Christian sins, or is about to sin, their heart aches and they feel terrible. When they go to God and ask for forgiveness he can feel how sorry they are. Think of it like this. If I asked "Do you know John?" and you said yes, that doesn't mean you are John's best friend, that just mean you know of him.

Christians will never stop sinning because the flesh is naturally against God.

Why aren't Christians more united? Why are there two sides to every fundamental issue of the Bible? (ie. women preachers, faith vs works for salvation, baptism, trinity, big sins vs little sins, calvinism vs arminianism, sinless perfection vs sinning Christians, and more? Do I have to choose sides?

Because the devil is a liar.

You will choose a side, not because you have to, but because that is what you feel or believe is in God's will. For example I believe in being baptized because Jesus was baptized.

The questions that I didn't answer are questions that you would just know, you can feel that it is true, everything makes sense and it just clicks. Whatever questions you many have go to God with them. I do it all the time and the answers I receive are amazing.

I will answer your questions as best I can soon, but I want to ask you a question for you to ponder: what are you willing to sacrifice to get closer to Him?

I want to you think about this question a lot harder. Think I know where Nymphe is going with this and Luthiegirlie scratched the surface of it.


I hope you don't take offense to this, I am telling you this because it will help you. I know you want to be able to get to a point where you are no longer sinning but you have to realize that is it not possible. Since the fall in The Garden up until the birth of Christ, humans had the opportunity to be perfect, sinless, and we couldn't do it. God realized that His people will not be able to rejoin Him in heaven so He sent Jesus down to save us (that is why he is called our savior). Once you understand this concept and understand that we all fall short to the glory of God, it will help you to understand what it means to be a Christian.


You will also start to see why people dance in the aisle so much.

 

[Poohbear]

That was ON IT! It takes painful breaking out of mentalities, growing pains. It takes studying. It takes being alone. It takes wrestling with YHwH and yourself! Many are not willing to do that!

Yes, it is painful breaking out of mentalities that have been taught and embedded over the years. Even mentalities that I reject can be a pain and troublesome at times.

PoohBear read the Word absent of any human opinion. We're arrogant and always wanna be right. Let the Holy Spirit lead you. Good place to start. Look up Hebrew.

I agree. That's what I am going to try to do for the next several months...read the Bible without human opinion, interpretations, or commentaries. I want to be able to actually have the Holy Spirit lead me. By the way, what do you mean by "Look up Hebrew"? The book of Hebrew in the Bible? Or the Hebrew language of the Bible?

Oh and another thang. Ask Him Directly these questions. He aint scurred of the hard stuff. I suspect you're not the first to ask. Nor will you be the last. Write a journal for each of these questions.. Pray these questions, Thank Him for the answers. Pray. For the Holy Spirit to rule. Have an open heart. And Proceed!

I have tried giving him my questions, but I sometimes think God gets frustrated with me just like how y'all get frustrated with me on here with my questions. Especially my questions about sin. Maybe I need to make a journal.

MAy I humbly state one more thing?

Sure. You are welcome to state as much as you want in this thread. I need all the help possible.

The fact you're saying Poohbear: I'm not getting fulfilled. I aint satisfied. May be very well Adonai pushing you into something Deeper with Him. U have a hunger. And most people are content with baby food. YOU however are not. AND that is rare. And you are called!

That's exactly how I feel too: "I'm not getting fulfilled. I'm not satisfied." It definitely does feel like a hunger and thirst for understanding. I hate this feeling of wanting to give up and not believe anymore. It's scary.

 

[Poohbear]

When I realized I suffered from religious exhaustion (and for me it was time to leave a high control group), I began reading the gospel of John, then I read the other gospels. It is very important to allow God's word to speak for itself. After 4 years, I still don't trust commentaries.
Pray to the Lord and tell him how you feel. I agree with luthiengirl. Allow yourself to be taught by the holy spirit.

I am suffering from that too... religious exhaustion... Many people view Christianity as attending church, performing rituals, and not committing certain sins (you know how people distinguish 'big sins' from 'little' sins). This is what I got caught up in. I know that is not Christianity. It's about a personal relationship with Christ. That's what I want to get back to, or at least strengthen. I do pray alot but as I got older I started to feel like praying was useless. And I started reading my Bible (like actually sitting down during quiet non-distracted time) less and less. I started to find myself just using the Bible to point out verses to people and to use it for teaching other people, but not for myself necessarily. Even though I'm a relatively good person or have this presumed goodness about myself, I feel bad for any sin I may commit and things that my dad would considered sinful that I don't necessarily think are sinful (things that he says are sinful - like not participating in all the church ministries - but are clearly not in the Bible).

Poohbear, I agree with the above posters. Get alone in your secret place and worship Him. He is truly a magnificent God. Honestly talk to Him and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. He will. Ask Him for clarity of His Word. He will open your eyes. I had to learn the hard way not to turn to people for answers but only to Him. Immerse yourself in His Word. He will reveal Himself. Sometimes it takes us getting away from everyone and totally and truly seeking Him and crying out to Him. Also, make sure you are open to hearing from Him. A lot of times we don't realize that God is talking to us in the simplest of ways. A lot of things we call coincidences are really God-incidences. I pray that God will fill you with overwhelming peace and an unending joy. I pray that you will see His glory and have a complete understanding of Him. God bless you.

This is what I plan on doing, getting some alone time after work. I have found that turning to people has caused a lot of confusion. So many different views. It's ridiculous. There are some people I have come across with similar views as me, but I'm really not looking for someone to be in agreement with. I'm just want to know what God is truly saying to me through his Word and communication with me. I think God is speaking to me in the most simplest way but I must be failing to hear. Thank you for your prayers.

 

[luthiengirlie]

Yes, it is painful breaking out of mentalities that have been taught and embedded over the years. Even mentalities that I reject can be a pain and troublesome at times.


I agree. That's what I am going to try to do for the next several months...read the Bible without human opinion, interpretations, or commentaries. I want to be able to actually have the Holy Spirit lead me. By the way, what do you mean by "Look up Hebrew"? The book of Hebrew in the Bible? Or the Hebrew language of the Bible?


I have tried giving him my questions, but I sometimes think God gets frustrated with me just like how y'all get frustrated with me on here with my questions. Especially my questions about sin. Maybe I need to make a journal.
Sure. You are welcome to state as much as you want in this thread. I need all the help possible.


That's exactly how I feel too: "I'm not getting fulfilled. I'm not satisfied." It definitely does feel like a hunger and thirst for understanding. I hate this feeling of wanting to give up and not believe anymore. It's scary.

Don't give up. This is what the enemy wants. You are at a crossroads. You must decide. Hebrew,aramic,greek. Look up and learn and research oringinal languages

 

[Guitarhero]

I can recommend reading about the lives and thoughts of 4 magnificent saints who have struggled with such in various aspects:

Padre Pio
Sr. Faustina
**St. John of the Cross
**St. Terese de Avila
St. Edith Stein

I'm about to get on these myself. Sometimes, we find our answer in the memoirs of another who recorded their anguish. And, no, you don't have to be catholic. I just don't know of any other ones to recommend. But these are excellent based upon the lives of truly intelligent and educated believers. You tend toward deep thought. There might be some of these books online through Google or other sources. Hope this helps.

 

[Poohbear]

I have been waiting for you to post something like this. My answers are in brown.

Everyone is not going to praise the Lord the same way. We were created differently so you are going to do things differently such as praising God. I have come to realize that when some people get to a certain level with God, they start to pass judgment on others (not intentionally). When they say things like this: "If you don't get up and praise God, something's wrong with you", it is one of those moments. They know first hand how AMAZING God is and whenever they see people sitting down and not giving God the praise they are thinking "how selfish, He is worthy to be praised" and things along that line. Try not to blame them, they just want you to give credit where credit is much due.

Christ dying on the cross was to pay the price for the sin that we commit. That doesn't mean that we should go around intentionally sinning, we should still learn from our mistakes and become better from them.

People would be dying not matter what, the only difference is that (without Christ) we would have a one way ticket to hell. Because of Jesus I am able to be with my Abba. Praise God.

Are you referring to the holy spirit? If that is the case then that is God's spirit not God (unless I am wrong). My relationship with God includes, talking to Him (it is usually about nothing important), being obedient, learning more about Him. It is the same way you would have a relationship with anyone, you spend time with them.

Christians care when they sin, non-Christians do not. A Christian will try their best not to sin, they will strive to handle the situation the way Christ would. Whenever a Christian sins, or is about to sin, their heart aches and they feel terrible. When they go to God and ask for forgiveness he can feel how sorry they are. Think of it like this. If I asked "Do you know John?" and you said yes, that doesn't mean you are John's best friend, that just mean you know of him.

Christians will never stop sinning because the flesh is naturally against God.

Originally Posted by Poohbear
Why aren't Christians more united? Why are there two sides to every fundamental issue of the Bible? (ie. women preachers, faith vs works for salvation, baptism, trinity, big sins vs little sins, calvinism vs arminianism, sinless perfection vs sinning Christians, and more? Do I have to choose sides?

Because the devil is a liar.

You will choose a side, not because you have to, but because that is what you feel or believe is in God's will. For example I believe in being baptized because Jesus was baptized.

The questions that I didn't answer are questions that you would just know, you can feel that it is true, everything makes sense and it just clicks. Whatever questions you many have go to God with them. I do it all the time and the answers I receive are amazing.


Originally Posted by Nymphe
I will answer your questions as best I can soon, but I want to ask you a question for you to ponder: what are you willing to sacrifice to get closer to Him?

I want to you think about this question a lot harder. Think I know where Nymphe is going with this and Luthiegirlie scratched the surface of it.

I hope you don't take offense to this, I am telling you this because it will help you. I know you want to be able to get to a point where you are no longer sinning but you have to realize that is it not possible. Since the fall in The Garden up until the birth of Christ, humans had the opportunity to be perfect, sinless, and we couldn't do it. God realized that His people will not be able to rejoin Him in heaven so He sent Jesus down to save us (that is why he is called our savior). Once you understand this concept and understand that we all fall short to the glory of God, it will help you to understand what it means to be a Christian.


You will also start to see why people dance in the aisle so much.

I agree that people are not going to praise the Lord the same way. It still bothers me when people in the pulpit still advise you to stand up even when you don’t feel like it. It’s not a devil or evil spirit keeping me down, it’s just that I don’t feel all the excitement like everyone else at that moment. Plus, I don’t want to get caught up in just doing things just because everyone else is nor feeling force to praise Him.

Christ dying on the cross to pay the price for our sins is something that’s taught over and over. It is taught so much that it sometimes becomes meaningless to me. I know that’s not a good thought to have, but that’s how I’ve been feeling. But I’m wondering can someone’s death really pay for the punishment for our sins? How did Jesus’ death pay for our sins? Is it simply a matter of believing what it says in the Bible?

And why are sins being viewed as mistakes and habits so much now?

In that question about how to have a relationship with God, I was referring to God who is a spirit (and also the Holy Spirit). I have been taught that God is the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. But anyway, so just praying, learning, and obeying His Word is basically all we need to do for a relationship with Him? If that’s the case, I guess I do have a relationship with God, I just have to believe it’s real.

So sin is just something I have to accept as a Christian too, right? So as long as I feel bad about the sin I commit, I shouldn’t worry about not being right with God? When I read the Bible, God speaks very strongly against sin and doesn't take it lightly at all. Is it that I'm reading certain verses about sin out of context of the scripture?

 

[Guitarhero]

Poohbear, I'm excited....it's online, free to read in pdf form!!! His writings were recommended to me ages ago and I'm just now getting around to them. C.S. Lewis is great as well.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross?show=worksBy

 

[Poohbear]

Hi, I will try to answer to the best of my knowledge here. Now first let me say, I have been a believer all my life. Yet I still have not read the whole bible. I am working on it though. I want to make sure I am understanding correctly what the bible is saying to me, not what people are trying to tell me.

1) For me it's about the relationship, I believe I am in the body of Christ because I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. & That we can not go to the Father usless we believe in Jesus.

2) I know I believe in Christ because here was there for me in my hours of need in my darkest hour. But the most powerful for me is when I called upon the Holy Trinity when I couldn't shake these suidical thoughts, and it was really getting to me and as soon as I called for help whatever evil was holding me down and trying to harm me was removed. I literally felt a weight lift. I was able to relax, I was no longer tormented by my thoughts. That to me was enough to know that I could never leave or turn away from God. Plus I know that I am one of his chosen people, to me I think it's pretty great that I was chosen to be saved and loved by the highest power of all.

3) I think that is different for everyone, I can feel it in my Spirit. I talk to him all the time, I don't know what I personally would do if I didn't have him to talk to about everything.

4) Since I wasn't around back then I can't offer a witness report. But I believe that's true because God said it's true. Also if you notice Jesus is also spoken about in the 3 major religions, so to me I believe Jesus is brought up so often for a reason.

5) It is very import to our lives today, the bible is there to help us. But so is God. Just because times are different, that doesn't mean God is different. I don't really understand the second part of this question, because we are going to dead regardless.

6) It's not as if people have never questioned God, I can't think of who it was in the bible at them moment, but he questioned God as well. He knows we have questions. I'm sure he expects us to have questions and moments of wondering how is the possible, etc. You should maybe fast and talk to God during that time to help him show you, your relationship. What works for one person, might not work for you. God knows our hearts, so there is no point to lie when you are upset, confused, etc.

7) To me having a relationship with God is like having a relationship with anyone else. Yes he is a spirit, but we can talk to him in many ways. Praying, studying the word, and being Christ like are ways also. Like I said, you need to do what works for you, God will show you what works best your personal relationship with him.

8) I guess walking by faith and not by sight.

9) No one is perfect, no one could ever be perfect. This is where people start to turn away from God, because other PEOPLE have told them they are not good enough. I no longer worry about what people say, if their is something that needs to be addressed, I know God will put me back in line. Because the same people who think they are " Holy than thou" you don't answer to them, you answer to God. Say thanks and go on your way. If you feel like something they said needs to be addressed you can talk to God about that.

10) This one has been on my mind for sometime now, I don't go to Church anymore. Because the church these days are so watered down and mixed up and messed up. Not saying ALL churches are. I study alone with God, by myself and I feel I have learnt more this way. Personally it's hard to explain my reasoning for this without going into another subject. But There should not even be like 50 or however many denominations. There should only be what the bible says. The church has more rules than God, and that is something to look at when finding a church, do they stick to what the bible says or are they off doing their own things. Dont' choose a side, choose God's word. The bible, alot of things have gotten twisted over the years in Christianity so it might be good to do a little research that way you can make a choice for youself. I think these guy kind knows what he is talking about, you might want to check out what he has to say www.youtube.com/deathuntolife

11) No, I thought that was an Old testament law? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't God say to give what can you joyfully? There are bible verses about this. I will have to look them up.

12) No, I believe the actually day of worship is the Sabbath not sunday. But we should worship God everyday anyways. It's about your relationship and if you truly believe. Not if you missed a Sunday School meeting.

I think I got everything? Sorry if any of it is confusing.

Thank you for your response. It was not confusing.

I agree with what you have said about how churches are today. It's not like the Church that the bible speaks of. The church today is about getting as many people on the membership role and attending a building for 1-2 hours a Sunday as a way to somewhat make yourself right with God at the beginning of the week. It's almost like they could care less about you having a relationship with God. They just want you to believe what they want you to believe and do what the pastor tells you to do.

I checked out that deathuntolife guy on youtube, and found him to be a bit "off-putting", not sure the word for it.

However, I saw this other guy http://www.youtube.com/SteveMcVey on youtube that seemed to be someone I found myself agreeing with. He has this series of 101 Lies Taught In Church Every Week that he did about 2 years ago, but I really need to dive into the Bible myself.

 

[Poohbear]

I can recommend reading about the lives and thoughts of 4 magnificent saints who have struggled with such in various aspects:

Padre Pio
Sr. Faustina
**St. John of the Cross
**St. Terese de Avila
St. Edith Stein

I'm about to get on these myself. Sometimes, we find our answer in the memoirs of another who recorded their anguish. And, no, you don't have to be catholic. I just don't know of any other ones to recommend. But these are excellent based upon the lives of truly intelligent and educated believers. You tend toward deep thought. There might be some of these books online through Google or other sources. Hope this helps.

Poohbear, I'm excited....it's online, free to read in pdf form!!! His writings were recommended to me ages ago and I'm just now getting around to them. C.S. Lewis is great as well.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/john_cross?show=worksBy

I never heard of these Saints... who are they and what significance do they have with a relationship with Christ? Did they struggle with similar questions I am currently having? I will check them out in my free time.

 

[sidney]

Hi Poohbear, based on what you have said here, it seems like you may not have received genuine conversion (salvation). Understanding of his word, faith/belief in his word, the presence of the holy spirit, and turning away from sin are true marks of conversion, and it seems like you struggle in all of these areas. Is it possible for people to spend years in the church and not be converted, YES absolutely! You know the word inside in out, you have knowlege but no understanding. Here is a testimony below of a pastor's wife who served in ministry 12 years before she realized she wasn't truly converted. Her testimony is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAxeDX-GYHw.

For several years, I've attended church every Sunday and taught children the Bible. However, I have been going through periods of unbelief and diminishing faith. I am confused about what to believe anymore. The more and more I taught, the less and less sense the Bible made to me. It's like I have the knowledge, but slowly lost faith. I feel like good and bad things happen out of mere coincidence, not because of God's mighty power.





During church services, I have never really felt the spirit or felt like I wanted to jump up and down and clap and sing aloud like a lot of people I see in different churches. Then the pastor or a minister will try to say things in the pulpit like "If you don't get up and praise God, something's wrong with you" and other statements along that line. Am I lacking the Spirit if I'm mainly quiet during service?



But anyway, here are the main questions I have been wondering....



How do you know who you are in Christ?

The only way to know, is that you have the fruit of the spirit. The only reassurance of true conversion is holiness. If the spirit isn't constantly correcting you and perfecting holiness within you then I would have concerns about salvation.

How do you know you believe in Christ?

I know that I know, I am 100% sure and every experience in my life so far has been a testament that God is real. He has performed many miracles in my life to the point where I can no longer deny the reality of Christ.

How do you know that you have a relationship with God?

Because he is responsive to my cries, and he answers my prayers.

He talks to me and leads me day by day. It's just like a relationship with any other person. The secret is to spend time with God, the same amount of time or more you would spend with your best friend or your boyfriend. It's pretty hard to find God when you only spend 5 minutes with him a day.

How do you know that Christ really died on the cross for the punishment of our sins?

Well for this you need to have faith in his word.


Why is Christ dying on the cross so significant for our lives today? Would we really be dying left and right when we sin against God if Jesus had not died?

It's significant because as you know it is the basis of our faith. Yes we would die had Christ not died.


It's so easy to say you "must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and Savior", but how do you know that you believe in your heart?

It's the manifestation of the holy spirit, he shows you all truths and you just know. You are fully persuaded.





It's so easy to say you must have a relationship with God. But how do you have a relationship with God when God is supposedly a spirit? Just praying and reading the Bible and living like Christ as much as possible? No praying and reading is the bare minimum, This is a great misconception, and many people think this is the potential extent of their relationship because people don't spend enough time with God to experience his presence. I have met some very annointed people who have such a close connection....I mean you can sit right next to them and God is speaking to them right there! I've noticed the this kind of relationship is directly related to the time spent in his presence along with reading and praying.



It's easy to say "all Scripture is God-breathed" or the inspired Word of God, but how do you know that for the fact WITHOUT reading 2 Timothy 3:16?

My personal belief is that if you are not going to take all of the bible, you might as well reject the whole thing. If II Timothy is wrong, then I guess John 3:16 is wrong too....so there's not point in believing at all. So it makes sense for me to accept all of it, or none of it. I chose to accept all of it.



Why should I accept the statement "Christians will never stop sinning" but yet, people say "not everyone who proclaims to be Christian isn't saved or going to heaven because of how they live"? How are they living that's so different than you who still commit sin?

God says "be ye holy" and "be ye perfect" with the full knowledge that people will still fall occasionally. It is the striving for perfection that counts. Those who are not converted are happy in their sin, they don't want to give it up.


I think a better idea is not to count every single sin, but rather look at the fruit of the spirit in a person's life. God tells us in his bible that you can know a tree by its fruit. It you have patience, kindness, longsuffering, etc and becoming more like Christ in your character that is a better indicator of being saved. In the end, if you don''t understand you will basically have to have faith or pray for understanding.

Why aren't Christians more united? Why are there two sides to every fundamental issue of the Bible? (ie. women preachers, faith vs works for salvation, baptism, trinity, big sins vs little sins, calvinism vs arminianism, sinless perfection vs sinning Christians, and more? Do I have to choose sides? Because people don't read the bible. They rather give you their opinion instead of looking in the word. For example, there are so many christians that think homosexuality is okay, that church attendance isn't important, etc and it right there in plain english in the bible. You don't have to choose sides, just search the scriptures and believe what God says. Man's opinion doesn't matter much.




Can I go to Hell for not tithing 10% of my GROSS income? No



Can I go to Hell for not participating in ALL church ministries and not attending a physical church building EVERY Sunday to worship God? No, you can have a relationship with God without going to church. But being in a fellowship of TRUE believers will sharpen you and keep your faith from failing.



Ecclesiastes 4:9-12 (New International Version)

9 Two are better than one,
because they have a good return for their work:

10 If one falls down,
his friend can help him up.
But pity the man who falls
and has no one to help him up!

11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm.
But how can one keep warm alone?

12 Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken


That's all the questions I have for now.

Poohbear I won't be able to go back and forth answering questions but I think that everything I know is here. I suggest you get connected to some believers and tell them about your doubts and they will be able to help you if you desire.

 

[sidney]

Christians are not free from sin overnight. When you get saved, all of your sin isn't zapped away but your heart is converted. It's like you start off as a block, and God continues to carve away the sin. So that eventually you reach perfection. But in order to do that you must read his word, you must do the word, etc etc. So when God says, "Go and sin no more"....he means it. When he says "Be ye perfect", he means it. But he knows it doesn't happen all at once. The point of christianity is to convert you(the block) into the image of Christ. So it takes time to get you to that point. If you read John 15, God talks about pruning his vines (christians) until they bare more fruit. It's the same idea as the block. Oh another anology found in the bible is God as the potter, and we are clay (Jeremaih/Isaiah). Notice with both these analogies it takes time to work out the character.

 

[Poohbear]

Beautiful post, sidney!

Hi Poohbear, based on what you have said here, it seems like you may not have received genuine conversion (salvation). Understanding of his word, faith/belief in his word, the presence of the holy spirit, and turning away from sin are true marks of conversion, and it seems like you struggle in all of these areas. Is it possible for people to spend years in the church and not be converted, YES absolutely! You know the word inside in out, you have knowlege but no understanding. Here is a testimony below of a pastor's wife who served in ministry 12 years before she realized she wasn't truly converted. Her testimony is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAxeDX-GYHw.

I think so too at the bolded. I will check out her testimony after I get off work.

How do you know who you are in Christ?

The only way to know, is that you have the fruit of the spirit. The only reassurance of true conversion is holiness. If the spirit isn't constantly correcting you and perfecting holiness within you then I would have concerns about salvation.

I feel like I have the fruits of the spirit... but just lack the understanding of my belief in Jesus. Is there a way to have the fruits of the spirit without being truly converted yet?

Why should I accept the statement "Christians will never stop sinning" but yet, people say "not everyone who proclaims to be Christian isn't saved or going to heaven because of how they live"? How are they living that's so different than you who still commit sin?

God says "be ye holy" and "be ye perfect" with the full knowledge that people will still fall occasionally. It is the striving for perfection that counts. Those who are not converted are happy in their sin, they don't want to give it up.

Well I definitely do not feel happy when I sin, so maybe that's all that matters, what's in my heart, as long as I'm striving for perfection. Maybe I am thinking and worrying too much.

Thanks again for your post.

 

[Guitarhero]

I never heard of these Saints... who are they and what significance do they have with a relationship with Christ? Did they struggle with similar questions I am currently having? I will check them out in my free time.

Um, , they are christians??? Like the Einstein's to science, like Graf to a diamond and like Giovanni to poetry, these are some of the biggest theologians, doctors of the church, brilliant thought-provoking saints who simply looked inwardly and revealed these struggles that so many face. Theology programs require reading their works. You might also like St. Therese de Lisieux "the Little Flower." She recorded her thoughts on the simplicity of life and the profound discovery of Jesus in every single little thing...in simple little acts for others, works, mundane life...she found the strength of Jesus in those...rather, the strongest faith and connection to God in the most mundane, simplest aspects of life.

From that site:

• Ascent of Mount Carmel
  Description: One of St. John of the Cross' most important and insightful works, Ascent of Mount Carmel is a brilliant work of Christian mysticism. Considered one of the great Spanish poets, St. John depicts the soul's ascent to Mount Carmel--allegorically, the place of God--and the "dark night" that the soul must endure to reach it. St. John describes the different mystic experiences the soul encounters on its way to union with God through the dark night. Although St. John continues to describe the dark night in Dark Night of the Soul, the sequel to Ascent of Mount Carmel, this book provides a hauntingly beautiful, profound, and mystical account of Christian spirituality. It is highly recommended.
  
  Tim Perrine
  CCEL Staff Writer
  
  It also now comes with a beneficial introduction to Ascent of Mount Carmel, an outline of St. John's life, and an introduction to St. John's works.
• Dark Night of the Soul
  Description: A sequel and continuation of Ascent of Mount Carmel, the Dark Night of the Soul is a spiritually moving and mystical book. In it, St. John of the Cross continues his description of the soul's journey--the "dark night"--to the "divine union of the love of God." A poet at heart, St. John describes the journey and the union with beautifully rich and deeply symbolic language. However, St. John does not simply describe the journey; he seems at times to be offering encouragement and comfort directly to readers as they too struggle with the excruciating dark night. Offering hope to the downtrodden and discouraged, the Dark Night of the Soul is one of the most difficult books a person can read, but its difficulty is surpassed by its reward. One of the most profound works of Christian mysticism, this book is highly recommended for those seeking union with God.

The last book is calling my soul and I'm going to read it soon. Maybe this was impetus and reminder for me lol. I'm very glad you asked the question.

 

[sidney]

Beautiful post, sidney!


I think so too at the bolded. I will check out her testimony after I get off work.

[/COLOR]

I feel like I have the fruits of the spirit... but just lack the understanding of my belief in Jesus. Is there a way to have the fruits of the spirit without being truly converted yet?

Well I definitely do not feel happy when I sin, so maybe that's all that matters, what's in my heart, as long as I'm striving for perfection. Maybe I am thinking and worrying too much.

Thanks again for your post.

Poohbear, I think this is an important topic and i think it's great that you are examining your beliefs and disbeliefs. Some people feel they have assurance that they are saved and don't give it a second thought, but you are taking the time to examine yourself and that is a wise thing. The wife that I told you about, her husband, Paul Washer preaches mainly about how how you know if you have true salvation. I don't believe in his beliefs about Calvinism but he has some great sermons on assurance of salvation.

Anyway, here is a messgae someone posted about salvation.

--------------------------
How do you know you are saved?
Well first of all, you should be displaying (or starting to display) the fruit of the spirit which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23)
If you are continually displaying immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness and carousing, then this is a good indication that you are not saved and as it says in Galatians 5:21, those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God
The books of 1 and 2 John also give you a list of things to look out for ‘so that you may know that you have eternal life.’ (1 John 5:13)

• You will not walk in darkness. If you do, then you do not practice or live by the truth (1 John 1:6)
• You will have fellowship with other christians (1 John 1:7)
• You recognise your sinful nature (1 John 1:8,10)
• You confess your sins (1 John 1:9)
• You obey and keep his commandments (1 John 2:3,5 ,1 John 3:24, 1 John 5:2)
• You will not hate your brother or sister but love them (1 John 2:9,11 , 1 John 3:10 and 1 John 4:7-8,12-13, 20-21, 2 John 1:5)
• You will not love the world or the things of the world (1 John 2:15)
• You will do the will of God (1 John 2:17)
• You believe the divinity of Jesus Christ and that he has come in the flesh (1 John 2:22 and 1 John 4:2-4,15, 2 John 1:7)
• Biblical truth will be abiding in you (1 John 2:24)
• You understand the righteousnes of Christ (1 John 2:29)
• You will be practicing righteousness (1 John 2:29)
• You will not habitually practice sin (1 John 3:8,9, 1 John 5:18 )
• You will have compassion for those in need (1 John 3:17)
• You believe that Jesus is the Christ and is the Son of God (1 John 5:1)
• You abide in the doctrine of Christ (2 John 1:9)

Now am I saying that if you are missing any of these then you are not saved? Of course not. It is not about perfection but about direction. You should be moving in the direction of doing the things above. This is called progressive sanctification where God is doing an inward work in you.
Other questions to ask yourself are:

• Am I growing in holiness?
• What is my relationship with sin?
• Do I have a struggle with sin or do I justify it? (Read Romans 7:7-25)
• Do I hate it more and more or do I try and justify it?
• Do I have a love for Gods word, the bible?
• Do I hunger and thirst for righteousness?
• Do I embrace biblical correction from someone else?
• Do I have a concern for the lost?

If the answer to the majority of these questions is no, then I would seriously doubt your salvation and I would urge you to repent of your sins and put your trust in Jesus Christ and in him alone. For more information click here. If you are a new christian and struggling in your daily walk, click here.
---------------------------
Poohbear If you want to check out Paul Washer's sermons, go to sermonaudio.com. There are a ton. This is a great topic and something we all should do! Take care Pooh! Praying for you, I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

 

[Guitarhero]

For anyone who might be struggling, having concern about where you are, what you're doing, walking the walk...if repentence and deep inner reflection isn't evidence that He is already working in you, then what could be? Life has ups and down, especially the spiritual life. A very wise man once gave me this scripture to my own question:


Isaiah 42:3
"A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment to truth."

Matthew 12:20
"A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory."

Being bruised doesn't mean that you do not belong. The final evidence of your decision will be in your works, not that you understood everything nor that you performed everything perfectly. Take heart.

 

[LatterGlory]

Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
(Psa 40:7-8)

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 10:10-11)


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
(Mar 16:16)

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(Act 4:12)


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
(1Ti 3:16)


The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(1Pe 3:21)


Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
(Mat 28:19-20)




Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
(Act 2:37-39)

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(Act 19:2-5)

 

[LatterGlory]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (Joh 1:1-14)

 

[LatterGlory]

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
(Psa 119:11)