Knowledge of Christ...but Lack of Belief and Relationship

[Guitarhero]

Honestly, I don't know. But I think if someone where truly saved and sinning, then the conviction of Christ will be on their life and they will know what time it is lol! They will get it together. If they fall again, they will get it together. I think the important thing here is that they will KNOW! If you don't feel God moving and correcting you at 2 months, 3 months, 2 years, whatever.....there is a problem! See the thing is, God will go to great lengths to save "keep" those who belong to him, even to the point of bringing calamity to their lives. I know there is atleast one somebody out there that knows what I'm talking about. If you don't know and you're saved....keep sinning and you will find out lol! When God convicts you there will be no question about it, and you will know that you are in him. I'd say the important thing is to know you belong to HIM. But for the ongoing sin, it just doesn't line up. If you are a good, loving father---will you let your 13 year old daughter be a prostitute or will you bring whatever punishment is required to get her in line?

Hebrews 12:6
because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

Have you ever committed a sin more than once? Anybody else? Why? How did you explain it to God? Do you think twice was habitual, more than twice? No salvation? By saved, do you mean converted to Christ? I think that the protestant concept of grace is different because ...of many reasons. Imma get back tomorrow...I'm so tired...and I need energy to think. But it's such an important topic. Just how many times is habitual???? I'll subscribe so I won't forget.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

Re: Knowledge of Christ...but Lack of Belief and RelationshipU

My one true concern Poohbear is that you are trying to take others with you on your spiral. You have asked this question about sin SEVERAL times. You have gotten the same answers. So at that point the question in my mind is what is your purpose?

I don't know yet if I agree that you are running from His calling but I definitely feel there's some kind of spirit over you that needs to be defeated.

And I may have missed this but what is your true relationship with your father? He sounds like he has too much influence and I'm picturing a controlling character like Shug Avery's father.

At this point I don't think posting scripture is going to help you. You know the Word. But maybe you should stop asking the same questions over and over and just relax. Let it go.

And in the meantime if you want to believe that foolishness about people not being Christian because they sin, then let that just be applicable to YOU. Don't try to make it apply to others who know the truth.

 

[sidney]

Have you ever committed a sin more than once? Anybody else? Why? How did you explain it to God? Do you think twice was habitual, more than twice? No salvation? By saved, do you mean converted to Christ? I think that the protestant concept of grace is different because ...of many reasons. Imma get back tomorrow...I'm so tired...and I need energy to think. But it's such an important topic. Just how many times is habitual???? I'll subscribe so I won't forget.

Volver, of course I've committed one sin more than once. All I'm saying is that I don't believe a loving God will let you continue in that one sin without correcting you. You are absolutely correct, God will not condemn you for a sin you commit when you are in him!! I'm not disagreeing with you. I know you know what you are talking about. All I am saying here is that it won't go on forever for he corrects you. That is-if you are in him. I don't know what habitual is, but if you get a sin pray til is gone lol! We know those he doesn't correct he gives over to a reprobate mind.

 

[aribell]

Honestly, I don't know. But I think if someone where truly saved and sinning, then the conviction of Christ will be on their life and they will know what time it is lol! They will get it together. If they fall again, they will get it together. I think the important thing here is that they will KNOW! If you don't feel God moving and correcting you at 2 months, 3 months, 2 years, whatever.....there is a problem! See the thing is, God will go to great lengths to save "keep" those who belong to him, even to the point of bringing calamity to their lives. I know there is atleast one somebody out there that knows what I'm talking about. If you don't know and you're saved....keep sinning and you will find out lol! When God convicts you there will be no question about it, and you will know that you are in him. I'd say the important thing is to know you belong to HIM. But for the ongoing sin, it just doesn't line up. If you are a good, loving father---will you let your 13 year old daughter be a prostitute or will you bring whatever punishment is required to get her in line?

Hebrews 12:6
because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

I know what you're talking about! Personal experience...unless one has come to a real point of testing, it may not become a concrete concept. But it is something else to encounter God's clear discipline or His Spirit's constant striving within you to bring you to repentance.

Many times as Christians we really are self-correcting. We already know that we sin and we are introspective enough to reflect on that sin and maybe even take it to the point of beating ourselves up over it. But that's not the same as God's discipline for those who have set their hearts to walk contrary to His word and ways.

Basically, at one point in time I thought I could give up and walk away from the Lord, and His response was essentially, "Ummm...no. You were bought at a price and belong to Me." And He did not let me go. He will bring you to repentance if you belong to Him. I suppose we can always choose to rebel against that act of grace and continue in sin, but still, no person who belongs to Christ will be able to continue in rebellion against God's ways without being confronted with the Lord's discipline.

And sometimes it's enough to just ponder the fact that you are still standing in faith in the Lord, and praise Him for it. With the world, the flesh and the devil all conspiring to tear us down in the faith, to simpy remain in the Lord is a feat. It is God who gives us grace to persevere.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

powerful. 'Nuff said.

I know what you're talking about! Personal experience...unless one has come to a real point of testing, it may not become a concrete concept. But it is something else to encounter God's clear discipline or His Spirit's constant striving within you to bring you to repentance.

Many times as Christians we really are self-correcting. We already know that we sin and we are introspective enough to reflect on that sin and maybe even take it to the point of beating ourselves up over it. But that's not the same as God's discipline for those who have set their hearts to walk contrary to His word and ways.

Basically, at one point in time I thought I could give up and walk away from the Lord, and His response was essentially, "Ummm...no. You were bought at a price and belong to Me." And He did not let me go. He will bring you to repentance if you belong to Him. I suppose we can always choose to rebel against that act of grace and continue in sin, but still, no person who belongs to Christ will be able to continue in rebellion against God's ways without being confronted with the Lord's discipline.

And sometimes it's enough to just ponder the fact that you are still standing in faith in the Lord, and praise Him for it. With the world, the flesh and the devil all conspiring to tear us down in the faith, to simpy remain in the Lord is a feat. It is God who gives us grace to persevere.

 

[chiconya]

How do you know who you are in Christ?
Because I follow his commands and footsteps closely I preach the word in the same manner and mental attitude as the Christ. Doing my best to always manifest the spirit of Christ in all things.

(1 Peter 2:21) 21*In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely.

(1 John 5:1-4) 5 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one that caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one. 2*By this we gain the knowledge that we are loving the children of God, when we are loving God and doing his commandments. 3*For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome, 4*because everything that has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith.

How do you know you believe in Christ?

Because there is no doubt in me about Christ.

(James 1:5-8) 5*So, if any one of YOU is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. 6*But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7*In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; 8*he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.


How do you know that you have a relationship with God?

Because God loved me first and I strive to draw close to him.

(1 John 4:14-19) 14*In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world. 15*Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God. 16*And we ourselves have come to know and have believed the love that God has in our case. God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him. 17*This is how love has been made perfect with us, that we may have freeness of speech in the day of judgment, because, just as that one is, so are we ourselves in this world. 18*There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. 19*As for us, we love, because he first loved us.

(James 4:8) Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU. .*.*.


How do you know that Christ really died on the cross for the punishment of our sins?

Cause the Bible is God's word and I am a believer so it's true.

(1 John 2:2) 2*And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

(Hebrews 12:2) 2*as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Why is Christ dying on the cross so significant for our lives today? It is our only hope for a better life now and in the future.

Would we really be dying left and right when we sin against God if Jesus had not died?

Jesus died so we can have eternal life John 17:3. Remember God told Adam and Eve they will positively die. Did they drop dead right away? no so people are dying everyday in a sinful state Jesus will one day wipe out all sin and death. Revelation 21:3-4

It's so easy to say you "must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and Savior", but how do you know that you believe in your heart?

I strive to follow all of the Bible's commands and preach the good news like Jesus commanded. And live a fruitful God fearing life.

It's so easy to say you must have a relationship with God. But how do you have a relationship with God when God is supposedly a spirit? Just praying and reading the Bible and living like Christ as much as possible? You answered this one already. Yup Pray, Read the Bible, Preach, and do what the Bible says reading it isn't enough. Faith without works is dead.

Why aren't Christians more united? As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I enjoy Christian unity of 7 million people, within 105,298 congregations, in over 235 lands around the world. I can go practically anywhere and find my brothers and sisters. And we really look out for one another no matter what.

 

[topsyturvy86]

Well, with the hypothetical situation you speak of above, this is where we get into personal opinion. In my opinion, true repentance does not look like the scenario you painted. To me that is habitual sin. It seems like in a scenario like that, whenever there is opportunity for sin, it happens.....even though the time spaces are there. No conversion has happened because so easily it happens again. Now I know some saints that had very sensual lives when they were in the world, but guess what....as madea said "ka klink!" They've got it locked down now lol! God is not a God that will continue to let his children be bound up in sin. The word says, he corrects the ones he loves. Look at Jonah, God chased him down and put him in a whale so get him to obey. He didn't just leave him in disobedience. So if some goes uncorrected for years, it's my opinion that he is not of the faith. If we study the bible and look at the lives of all the people God considers believers, none of them share this testimony like the one you painted above. Not one person. Did they all sin, yes. Look at David and Bathsheba, but God sent Nathan to bring conviction to David, and you know what.....he stopped. Stopping sin is the difference between a true christian and someone who has religion. The only true mark of a christian is holiness, so if habitual sin resides in one's life there can be no true conversion.

I agree with you. I got really saved in 2007 and tried to stop sinning but I didn't immediately. The good thing was I read a powerful message that said I should just come .... and when I fall, the devils biggest lie is oh crap! I'm never going to be good enough! (which he told me enough times to make the Christian walk seem so difficult) but instead when we fall, the right attitude is 'so what?' I fell, so what? Go to God, confess your sins, repent, and He will forgive them and remember them no more so we should get up and keep on trying. This was a hard concept for me to grasp because I thought I was taking God for granted ... the devil was telling me this. But I went with it and so glad I did. Mid-late 2008, as I was drawing close to God and falling in love with Him, He convicted me of that sin gently, in my heart. I knew in my spirit that it was wrong, not just in my mind and came to the realization that I can't stop sinning in my own power and I should stop hiding this sin but give it to Him and let Him help me because it is only through God's spirit that we can break away from sin. That's why Pooh Bear, I said you should just seek God's face and stop worrying about your sin level. It's only through God's spirit that you can break free from sin, you can never do it on your own. After that revelation, through the help of the Holy Spirit I found it easy to make the decision and break away from that sin. Sin has no dominion over me anymore. That sin is no more sin as a verb for me. I have fallen since then and it was sin as a noun, not a lifestyle anymore and I repented and God forgave me .

Although God was revealing Himself to me when I was saved but still sinning, embracing me when I needed and all that, I never experienced real full intimacy with God until I stopped. It's like that sin separated me from really experiencing God. When I fall into temptation now, I think ... do I really want to risk this intimacy with God? and the answer is usually NO because nothing compares to dwelling in the presence of God . However, it's a process and there's no fast pass and God is aware of this.

 

[Poohbear]

Ok, i'm gonna try and see if I can help here. This mindset of Christians not sinning seems like your main problem. Your view on this is totally wrong and is probably the reason why things don't add up in your mind. Jesus was and will be the only human that was without sin. non-Christians sin and Christians sin too! Yep, even the woman from the Church of God denomination you mentioned . 1 John 1:8 -> "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Read Romans 5:20 - the end of chapter 6. I will make reference to it while speaking now plus it will give you a deeper understanding of the sin issue and being saved. I pray that as you read those verses that the words are not just words to be scrutinized but life that penetrates your mind to your spirit, and I pray that God through His spirit gives you understanding of His ways in Jesus's name. Amen.

Ok, so no one can ever live up to the 10 commandments as a way of life. Only Jesus ever did. No one can ever live without sin as a lifestyle, only Jesus did. We are continually transformed to the image of Christ and this is a lifetime process. We will never attain perfection in this earth. The good news is God is not expecting perfection! He said YOU should come as you are. With your sin and your baggage and all of you. You can never be not good enough to be a Christian. God made you and however you turn out is no surprise to Him. If you had kids, you know they're gonna grow and you know what to expect. You wouldn't not want your child anymore because they became a toddler and started being messing the place up or because they became a teenager and started rebelling and doing things against your will. You would rather have them broken and damaged than not at all, right? Basically, that you sin and all what not is no surprise to God. My Church has a sign up saying "No perfect people allowed" . I guess it's to counteract this kind of mentality.

Where sin abounds, grace abounds even more. With non-Christians, i'd say sin is a verb - a doing thing, a lifestyle. With Christians, the spirit of God in us convicts us of sin and 'free's' us. This freedom means freedom from the bondage of sin and not from the ability to sin - we're no more slaves to sin, we have a choice and there is a constant battle between the flesh: Galatians 5: 16-17 "6But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God). 17For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do." As you can imagine, this is not easy and we fall into sin.

The difference is as we are not slaves to sin, we have dominion over sin! We have God's grace. One of the devils biggest lies which he has obviously told you is that you are not good enough ... sinner like you. But the bible says in Romans 8: 1-3 that there is no condemnation for those who believe. The bible encourages us to confess our sins to one another. When Jesus taught us how to pray in the Lord's prayer, He asked for forgiveness of sins. This is because we are not and can never ever be sin free as long as we are on this earth.

Hope this has helped at least a little to clarify things for you. Christianity is not about sin/no sin, rules and regulations, this and that. We can't impress God by our ability to be 'sinless' in our eyes, we please Him by faith. Christianity is all about love; loving God and loving people. Stop putting so much pressure on yourself, these things will come ... the Holy spirit will help you. Just focus on seeking God. He will accept your sinful self ... you're not any different from any of His children.

Thank you so much for this topsyturvy! Your post really relieved my mind and put things in better perspective.

I agree with you. I got really saved in 2007 and tried to stop sinning but I didn't immediately. The good thing was I read a powerful message that said I should just come .... and when I fall, the devils biggest lie is oh crap! I'm never going to be good enough! (which he told me enough times to make the Christian walk seem so difficult) but instead when we fall, the right attitude is 'so what?' I fell, so what? Go to God, confess your sins, repent, and He will forgive them and remember them no more so we should get up and keep on trying. This was a hard concept for me to grasp because I thought I was taking God for granted ... the devil was telling me this. But I went with it and so glad I did. Mid-late 2008, as I was drawing close to God and falling in love with Him, He convicted me of that sin gently, in my heart. I knew in my spirit that it was wrong, not just in my mind and came to the realization that I can't stop sinning in my own power and I should stop hiding this sin but give it to Him and let Him help me because it is only through God's spirit that we can break away from sin. That's why Pooh Bear, I said you should just seek God's face and stop worrying about your sin level. It's only through God's spirit that you can break free from sin, you can never do it on your own. After that revelation, through the help of the Holy Spirit I found it easy to make the decision and break away from that sin. Sin has no dominion over me anymore. That sin is no more sin as a verb for me. I have fallen since then and it was sin as a noun, not a lifestyle anymore and I repented and God forgave me .



Although God was revealing Himself to me when I was saved but still sinning, embracing me when I needed and all that, I never experienced real full intimacy with God until I stopped. It's like that sin separated me from really experiencing God. When I fall into temptation now, I think ... do I really want to risk this intimacy with God? and the answer is usually NO because nothing compares to dwelling in the presence of God . However, it's a process and there's no fast pass and God is aware of this.

Thank you for your testimony as well.

But I must ask... is there a sin even now that you are saved that you have done more than once? If so, how do you feel about that when it comes to your Christian faith? And how is it different than habitual intentional continual sin?

 

[Poohbear]

Well, with the hypothetical situation you speak of above, this is where we get into personal opinion. In my opinion, true repentance does not look like the scenario you painted. To me that is habitual sin. It seems like in a scenario like that, whenever there is opportunity for sin, it happens.....even though the time spaces are there. No conversion has happened because so easily it happens again. Now I know some saints that had very sensual lives when they were in the world, but guess what....as madea said "ka klink!" They've got it locked down now lol! God is not a God that will continue to let his children be bound up in sin. The word says, he corrects the ones he loves. Look at Jonah, God chased him down and put him in a whale so get him to obey. He didn't just leave him in disobedience. So if some goes uncorrected for years, it's my opinion that he is not of the faith. If we study the bible and look at the lives of all the people God considers believers, none of them share this testimony like the one you painted above. Not one person. Did they all sin, yes. Look at David and Bathsheba, but God sent Nathan to bring conviction to David, and you know what.....he stopped. Stopping sin is the difference between a true christian and someone who has religion. The only true mark of a christian is holiness, so if habitual sin resides in one's life there can be no true conversion.

Thank you. One more thing with that scenario...

Let's say this guy repents, rededicates his life to Christ, him and his girlfriend... They refrain from sex for 2 years. They are still not married. Then February 14, 2013, they have sex after being celibate for so long. Are they still saved? Are they still considered holy and truly converted?

\\

Not to argue, but this is where the sects differ greatly and I'd like to point that out. The rite of reconciliation says "no" to this because it exists for those who will repent. Is there habitual sin among those who follow Christ? Since we are not just spirits but are largely controlled by our psychology, yes. Unrepented habitual sins ever and final rejection...no conversion. There might be a struggle that one has and it has various addictive facets, not just commission. I humbly disagree...but not to fight...just reaffirming where our side is in this discussion. Very interesting, though!!!

This is what I think. I think there IS habitual sin among those who follow Christ. I just can't agree with sin not being intentional when you know what you're doing. I just feel like if anyone here is going to stick to this doctrine of "no one will ever be free from the ability to sin except Jesus", then you must include the habitual intentional sin as well. There's no such thing as non-intentional, "didn't want to do it" sin.

I'm in the "there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus" camp as well. Is this what you mean? However, if you study the lives of the Saints of the bible I've never seen any saint bound up in one habitual sin, though none were completely without sin except Enoch. There are many professing christians who continue to live in sin under the guise that God has overlooked and forgiven there habitual sin but I don't think there is any biblical precidence for that at all. I'm not saying you are wrong because I don't know for sure but this is just my opionion.

I agree that there are professing Christians who continue to live in sin under this disguise of forgiven sin. I see that you have made a distinction between habitual sin and "other" sin... I just wonder what sins are non-habitual???

Oh boy, there were many but since you all only go by biblically-mentioned saints and not those coming after...I can tell you, many of them lol! What about St. Paul doing things he hated? Habitual. You making me work! LOL. But from our understanding and teaching, Enoch wasn't without the stain of original sin, meaning that he needed sanctifying grace that is missing, having a natural corrupt nature. He consciously chose to walk closely with God daily but was not free from original sin. So, there is a difference between original sin's stain and personal sin. That's what I'm saying. And anybody born with the stain of original sin needs sanctifying grace...salvation. But he is definitely a role model.

My question is this, is it one time, twice, how far apart, over a lifetime, over a week? If committed 5 times in a short or long span of time? Who gets to decide when and how many? Just like Jesus fell on the road to the cross, He got up again. That was a teaching lesson. Get back up and keep on that road. Shrugs. That's how I was taught. Others may differ in their interpretation. But we know to regularly confess and when you do so, you gain more understanding and strength. The important this is to confess it. I guess if you didn't ever confess your sins, then you could say you had no conversion....?????? Shrugs...

Yes, my question too!!!!

Honestly, I don't know. But I think if someone where truly saved and sinning, then the conviction of Christ will be on their life and they will know what time it is lol! They will get it together. If they fall again, they will get it together. I think the important thing here is that they will KNOW! If you don't feel God moving and correcting you at 2 months, 3 months, 2 years, whatever.....there is a problem! See the thing is, God will go to great lengths to save "keep" those who belong to him, even to the point of bringing calamity to their lives. I know there is atleast one somebody out there that knows what I'm talking about. If you don't know and you're saved....keep sinning and you will find out lol! When God convicts you there will be no question about it, and you will know that you are in him. I'd say the important thing is to know you belong to HIM. But for the ongoing sin, it just doesn't line up. If you are a good, loving father---will you let your 13 year old daughter be a prostitute or will you bring whatever punishment is required to get her in line?

Hebrews 12:6
because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."

Good response.

Have you ever committed a sin more than once? Anybody else? Why? How did you explain it to God? Do you think twice was habitual, more than twice? No salvation? By saved, do you mean converted to Christ? I think that the protestant concept of grace is different because ...of many reasons. Imma get back tomorrow...I'm so tired...and I need energy to think. But it's such an important topic. Just how many times is habitual???? I'll subscribe so I won't forget.

Yes, this is another question I would like to know about Christians who believe they are alive in Jesus and dead to sin.

Volver, of course I've committed one sin more than once. All I'm saying is that I don't believe a loving God will let you continue in that one sin without correcting you. You are absolutely correct, God will not condemn you for a sin you commit when you are in him!! I'm not disagreeing with you. I know you know what you are talking about. All I am saying here is that it won't go on forever for he corrects you. That is-if you are in him. I don't know what habitual is, but if you get a sin pray til is gone lol! We know those he doesn't correct he gives over to a reprobate mind.

Thank you two for this dialogue going back and forth. It seems like it's a matter of God correcting you or giving you over to a reprobated mind if you decide that you love that sin more than Him.

 

[luthiengirlie]

Thank you. One more thing with that scenario...

Let's say this guy repents, rededicates his life to Christ, him and his girlfriend... They refrain from sex for 2 years. They are still not married. Then February 14, 2013, they have sex after being celibate for so long. Are they still saved? Are they still considered holy and truly converted?


This is what I think. I think there IS habitual sin among those who follow Christ. I just can't agree with sin not being intentional when you know what you're doing. I just feel like if anyone here is going to stick to this doctrine of "no one will ever be free from the ability to sin except Jesus", then you must include the habitual intentional sin as well. There's no such thing as non-intentional, "didn't want to do it" sin.


I agree that there are professing Christians who continue to live in sin under this disguise of forgiven sin. I see that you have made a distinction between habitual sin and "other" sin... I just wonder what sins are non-habitual???


Yes, my question too!!!!


Good response.


Yes, this is another question I would like to know about Christians who believe they are alive in Jesus and dead to sin.


Thank you two for this dialogue going back and forth. It seems like it's a matter of God correcting you or giving you over to a reprobated mind if you decide that you love that sin more than Him.

- To the marriage thang. If we've been together a year and Adonai says he's da one. And my fam likes him. We. Gettin marrit. One year I aint gawn sin against YHWH. Cuz I KNOW we want each other BAD! That's just me.

 

[Guitarhero]

Volver, of course I've committed one sin more than once. All I'm saying is that I don't believe a loving God will let you continue in that one sin without correcting you. You are absolutely correct, God will not condemn you for a sin you commit when you are in him!! I'm not disagreeing with you. I know you know what you are talking about. All I am saying here is that it won't go on forever for he corrects you. That is-if you are in him. I don't know what habitual is, but if you get a sin pray til is gone lol! We know those he doesn't correct he gives over to a reprobate mind.

We're all discussing... When does one know when it's habitual though? Correctionor conviction? Free-will. We have to agree to turn around and if one does, then that person is following Him. I also have a different take on the concept of condemnation of sin. I'm not sure exactly how another would view it but in my camp, there is venial (less serious) and mortal grave sins (serious, committed in full conscience, breaking relationship with God and needs restoration through formal confession). So, how strong is the desire to sin...habitual sins? Depending upon the psychology of the person, some stronger struggles than others. I believe that the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and you either then or later turn from it. If one doesn't turn and finally dies this way, where was the walk? Of course, I'm talking very grave things that one doesn't feel remorse for. There are many sins we commit, some without even realizing it. Some are probably group sins and we're unaware. Ex, pollution?

It's very interesting all the concepts and takes we have on how this exactly works and is a good thread for studying up on what one has been taught and adheres to theology-wise. It's not correcting and swaying another to believe any side, it's reaffirming what one has been taught and follow. Hope that's clear about my participation, at least. It makes you take notes for when the question arises in future what you believe on certain subjects when you are outside your group.

And someone mentioned that we cannot live by the 10 Commandments. I beg to differ on that one. We test ourselves against the Decalogue to see where we've failed. It's always going to be valid. Christ didn't change nor eradicate it at all. We are imperfect so His sacrifice restores grace in us.

 

[Poohbear]

Re: Knowledge of Christ...but Lack of Belief and RelationshipU

My one true concern Poohbear is that you are trying to take others with you on your spiral. You have asked this question about sin SEVERAL times. You have gotten the same answers. So at that point the question in my mind is what is your purpose?

I don't know yet if I agree that you are running from His calling but I definitely feel there's some kind of spirit over you that needs to be defeated.

And I may have missed this but what is your true relationship with your father? He sounds like he has too much influence and I'm picturing a controlling character like Shug Avery's father.

At this point I don't think posting scripture is going to help you. You know the Word. But maybe you should stop asking the same questions over and over and just relax. Let it go.

And in the meantime if you want to believe that foolishness about people not being Christian because they sin, then let that just be applicable to YOU. Don't try to make it apply to others who know the truth.

My purpose is to this... I wish there was some type of unity on this but maybe that's being overly optimistic...

I also feel like ALL sin is the same... habitually done against God. People do sins because they want to. I just don't see any other way around it. I want to know how can a sin be non-habitual, unintentional? If you have it all together, how come you can't answer that question? Just telling me "you ask the same question SEVERAL times" doesn't help at all. Have you done a sin more than once as a truly converted Christian? If so, how do you feel about that in relation to your salvation?

About my true relationship with my father... you're right. I believe he has had too much influence on me, mainly psychologically. He can be very controlling and denies it. Even though he can say things I disagree with, it still has an affect on me. Even though I was fortunate to have a father and mother, I wish I had a good relationship with my father, a man I could come and talk to, not hide things from. A man that won't try to control all my actions and thoughts. I'm just glad I still have my sanity.

Maybe I should stop asking and let it go. I will eventually. I believe that was the purpose of this thread as well to help me come to grips and see what other people believe. All the answers I have gotten are helping, even though I will ask the same question in a different way, form, or fashion. It's just my way of expressing, venting, and relieving my mind and my heart. And I'm not trying make anything apply to others... I'm just trying to see what others think about it. And you say "to others who know the truth?" Well, the TRUTH apparently is different among every Christian.

And you maybe right about some spirit that is over me. I posted in another thread about this sleep paralysis experience I had last Friday night. I was laying in my bed awake. All of a sudden, I couldn't move, or speak. This has happened several times before in my life, but this time, I heard mumbling in my ear. Now hearing sound has never happened during my sleep paralysis experiences! I know for a fact I wasn't dreaming nor hallucinating. I could actually feel the breath from this mumbling on my ear. The mumbling happened twice then after a few seconds, I was released from my paralysis. So maybe there is a spirit that needs to be defeated. I am exhausted with the thoughts of religion and belief. Maybe none of it is for me.

 

[Poohbear]

- To the marriage thang. If we've been together a year and Adonai says he's da one. And my fam likes him. We. Gettin marrit. One year I aint gawn sin against YHWH. Cuz I KNOW we want each other BAD! That's just me.

So does marriage save one who is trapped in the sin of fornication? It does seem like marriage is the solution for quite a bit of sins. Is that why so many single women on the Christian Forum pray so badly for a husband so they can have "holy" sex? Is marriage a form of salvation from sin (especially sexual immorality)?

 

[Poohbear]

We're all discussing... When does one know when it's habitual though? Correctionor conviction? Free-will. We have to agree to turn around and if one does, then that person is following Him. I also have a different take on the concept of condemnation of sin. I'm not sure exactly how another would view it but in my camp, there is venial (less serious) and mortal grave sins (serious, committed in full conscience, breaking relationship with God and needs restoration through formal confession). So, how strong is the desire to sin...habitual sins? Depending upon the psychology of the person, some stronger struggles than others. I believe that the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and you either then or later turn from it. If one doesn't turn and finally dies this way, where was the walk? Of course, I'm talking very grave things that one doesn't feel remorse for. There are many sins we commit, some without even realizing it. Some are probably group sins and we're unaware. Ex, pollution?

It's very interesting all the concepts and takes we have on how this exactly works and is a good thread for studying up on what one has been taught and adheres to theology-wise. It's not correcting and swaying another to believe any side, it's reaffirming what one has been taught and follow. Hope that's clear about my participation, at least. It makes you take notes for when the question arises in future what you believe on certain subjects when you are outside your group.

And someone mentioned that we cannot live by the 10 Commandments. I beg to differ on that one. We test ourselves against the Decalogue to see where we've failed. It's always going to be valid. Christ didn't change nor eradicate it at all. We are imperfect so His sacrifice restores grace in us.

Thank you! The bolded part in your quote is also the purpose of this thread and all the questions I've been asking!!!

 

[SND411]

Poohbear,

Keep asking! We need to be reminded why we believe daily. The Bible says to always check whether or not we are in the faith. We should ask each other these questions all the time.

 

[SND411]

Sometimes I wonder why this issue of "sin" while being Christian can be so complicated.

 

[topsyturvy86]

PoohBear, you're going round in circles! Just focus on seeking God's face. Period. Leave the issue of sin alone for now. The sin I spoke about earlier was fornication. This should not deter you from really seeking God IF you want to. This particular sin is like a spirit and you can't stop it in your own strength. Seek God and ask Him to help you. Stop asking people these questions but ask God. You can't intellectualize the things of God. When you begin to do that, you miss the point.

 

[sidney]

Paul says this, Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue[habitual sin] in sin, that grace may abound. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin live any longer therein? Paul is talking about christians, those who should be dead to sin. Thus, we can not continue habitually in sin. Does everyone sin, here and there, yes and there have been many scriptures posted that support this. How to define habitual sin, I have no idea. But if you can't control it, then it's probably habitual. If eventually something will happen when you are around the temptation, it's probably habitual.

Okay this is just an example I'm using in the natural, of course without biblical support but if I put an alcoholic in a room with beer of choice, and they eventually use it again, then they are probably still an alcoholic. They are just in remission. When the addict is finally free from the urge and temptation (thus no longer doing it when the opportunity presents), then it's no longer habitual. This is all just conjecture though, I don't know exaxtly what habitual sin is.

PoohBear as for your question about the redication, I'm not 100% sure. But I would recommend that the gentleman keep redidicating himself until he is no longer weak to fornicate. As I stated before, the evidence of conversion is holiness. Salvation doesn't come by a magic prayer or a redidication, but an internal change has to happen, and when that occurs there will be outward manifestation. One of the fruits of the spirit is self control, and that is a good measure of our salvation. We know the flesh can not stop sinning but the spirit can help us accomplish this. I'll be back tonight (I will this time lol)

We're all discussing... When does one know when it's habitual though? Correctionor conviction? Free-will. We have to agree to turn around and if one does, then that person is following Him. I also have a different take on the concept of condemnation of sin. I'm not sure exactly how another would view it but in my camp, there is venial (less serious) and mortal grave sins (serious, committed in full conscience, breaking relationship with God and needs restoration through formal confession). So, how strong is the desire to sin...habitual sins? Depending upon the psychology of the person, some stronger struggles than others. I believe that the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin and you either then or later turn from it. If one doesn't turn and finally dies this way, where was the walk? Of course, I'm talking very grave things that one doesn't feel remorse for. There are many sins we commit, some without even realizing it. Some are probably group sins and we're unaware. Ex, pollution?

It's very interesting all the concepts and takes we have on how this exactly works and is a good thread for studying up on what one has been taught and adheres to theology-wise. It's not correcting and swaying another to believe any side, it's reaffirming what one has been taught and follow. Hope that's clear about my participation, at least. It makes you take notes for when the question arises in future what you believe on certain subjects when you are outside your group.

And someone mentioned that we cannot live by the 10 Commandments. I beg to differ on that one. We test ourselves against the Decalogue to see where we've failed. It's always going to be valid. Christ didn't change nor eradicate it at all. We are imperfect so His sacrifice restores grace in us.

 

[luthiengirlie]

So does marriage save one who is trapped in the sin of fornication? It does seem like marriage is the solution for quite a bit of sins. Is that why so many single women on the Christian Forum pray so badly for a husband so they can have "holy" sex? Is marriage a form of salvation from sin (especially sexual immorality)?

Well I was speaking truth and yet adding humor. Sex is only one componet of relationships. I do know those other women's hearts. The reason ME MYSELF AND I desire to get married is to 1. Give experience love. 2. Marriage is a MINISTRY in itself to exemplify Christ Love for us in an intimate sex. 3. To have kids to pass down the lineage of Christ. Sex as great as it is w/in the confines of marriage aint all there is to it. I want my marriage to glorify YHWH. If it don't I don't wanna be married to that dude. I decided to examine WHY I want marriage. I don't want to be married for selfish reasons but that's ME. I don't know about other Christian women

 

[Poohbear]

PoohBear, you're going round in circles! Just focus on seeking God's face. Period. Leave the issue of sin alone for now. The sin I spoke about earlier was fornication. This should not deter you from really seeking God IF you want to. This particular sin is like a spirit and you can't stop it in your own strength. Seek God and ask Him to help you. Stop asking people these questions but ask God. You can't intellectualize the things of God. When you begin to do that, you miss the point.

Whenever I've asked God a question, I do not get an audible or visual answer. The only possible answer I get is from the Bible. In regards to the sin of fornication, all I see in the Bible is that it says a fornicator cannot inherit the kingdom of God. I feel like that's for anyone who considers themselves a Christian or not. I do not see any verse that says, "if you believe in Jesus and fornicate, you still get to go to Heaven." And I don't see anything that says, "Jesus' death on the cross forgave past, present, and future sins." I just think that a Christian that slips up and fornicates either habitually or non-habitually is not truly saved.

Paul says this, Romans 6:1
What shall we say then? Shall we continue[habitual sin] in sin, that grace may abound. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin live any longer therein? Paul is talking about christians, those who should be dead to sin. Thus, we can not continue habitually in sin. Does everyone sin, here and there, yes and there have been many scriptures posted that support this. How to define habitual sin, I have no idea. But if you can't control it, then it's probably habitual. If eventually something will happen when you are around the temptation, it's probably habitual.

Okay this is just an example I'm using in the natural, of course without biblical support but if I put an alcoholic in a room with beer of choice, and they eventually use it again, then they are probably still an alcoholic. They are just in remission. When the addict is finally free from the urge and temptation (thus no longer doing it when the opportunity presents), then it's no longer habitual. This is all just conjecture though, I don't know exaxtly what habitual sin is.

PoohBear as for your question about the redication, I'm not 100% sure. But I would recommend that the gentleman keep redidicating himself until he is no longer weak to fornicate. As I stated before, the evidence of conversion is holiness. Salvation doesn't come by a magic prayer or a redidication, but an internal change has to happen, and when that occurs there will be outward manifestation. One of the fruits of the spirit is self control, and that is a good measure of our salvation. We know the flesh can not stop sinning but the spirit can help us accomplish this. I'll be back tonight (I will this time lol)

The Amplified Bible added the word [habitual sin] in that verse. The unaltered King James Version simple says "sin". I don't see how adding [habitual sin] in that verse makes it say anything about so-called "non-habitual" sin.

In other words, if you are a converted Christian of holiness and you slip up and sin, that's habitual sin. It's not a mistake. A mistake is like if you get an answer incorrect on a test. A habit is like if you can't stop biting your nails or playing in your hair.

I have been taught about how our sinful nature is at war with our spiritual nature. That Romans 7 verse about Paul has been thrown at me alot too. But this is another question that I've probably asked in a different way.... Can the Holy Spirit really help Christians stop sinning if the Christian's flesh cannot stop sinning? It just sounds miserable to me. It makes me feel like sin is a crutch to keep religion in power.

 

[Poohbear]

Well I was speaking truth and yet adding humor. Sex is only one componet of relationships. I do know those other women's hearts. The reason ME MYSELF AND I desire to get married is to 1. Give experience love. 2. Marriage is a MINISTRY in itself to exemplify Christ Love for us in an intimate sex. 3. To have kids to pass down the lineage of Christ. Sex as great as it is w/in the confines of marriage aint all there is to it. I want my marriage to glorify YHWH. If it don't I don't wanna be married to that dude. I decided to examine WHY I want marriage. I don't want to be married for selfish reasons but that's ME. I don't know about other Christian women

Thanks. I agree. That's good that you feel this way.

 

[Poohbear]

chiconya, thanks for your response. For some odd reason, your post almost made me tear up in the eyes here at work. I don't know why. And as much people talk bad about Jehovah Witnesses, I was surprised to see that you stated that you are of the Jehovah Witness sect. I would have never thought.

How do you know who you are in Christ?
Because I follow his commands and footsteps closely I preach the word in the same manner and mental attitude as the Christ. Doing my best to always manifest the spirit of Christ in all things.

(1 Peter 2:21) 21*In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely.

(1 John 5:1-4) 5 Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one that caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one. 2*By this we gain the knowledge that we are loving the children of God, when we are loving God and doing his commandments. 3*For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome, 4*because everything that has been born from God conquers the world. And this is the conquest that has conquered the world, our faith.

How do you know you believe in Christ?

Because there is no doubt in me about Christ.

(James 1:5-8) 5*So, if any one of YOU is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. 6*But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. 7*In fact, let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from Jehovah; 8*he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.


How do you know that you have a relationship with God?

Because God loved me first and I strive to draw close to him.

(1 John 4:14-19) 14*In addition, we ourselves have beheld and are bearing witness that the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world. 15*Whoever makes the confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God. 16*And we ourselves have come to know and have believed the love that God has in our case. God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him. 17*This is how love has been made perfect with us, that we may have freeness of speech in the day of judgment, because, just as that one is, so are we ourselves in this world. 18*There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. 19*As for us, we love, because he first loved us.

(James 4:8) Draw close to God, and he will draw close to YOU. .*.*.


How do you know that Christ really died on the cross for the punishment of our sins?

Cause the Bible is God's word and I am a believer so it's true.

(1 John 2:2) 2*And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.

(Hebrews 12:2) 2*as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Why is Christ dying on the cross so significant for our lives today? It is our only hope for a better life now and in the future.

Would we really be dying left and right when we sin against God if Jesus had not died?

Jesus died so we can have eternal life John 17:3. Remember God told Adam and Eve they will positively die. Did they drop dead right away? no so people are dying everyday in a sinful state Jesus will one day wipe out all sin and death. Revelation 21:3-4

It's so easy to say you "must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and Savior", but how do you know that you believe in your heart?

I strive to follow all of the Bible's commands and preach the good news like Jesus commanded. And live a fruitful God fearing life.

It's so easy to say you must have a relationship with God. But how do you have a relationship with God when God is supposedly a spirit? Just praying and reading the Bible and living like Christ as much as possible? You answered this one already. Yup Pray, Read the Bible, Preach, and do what the Bible says reading it isn't enough. Faith without works is dead.

Why aren't Christians more united? As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I enjoy Christian unity of 7 million people, within 105,298 congregations, in over 235 lands around the world. I can go practically anywhere and find my brothers and sisters. And we really look out for one another no matter what.

 

[topsyturvy86]

Thank you so much for this topsyturvy! Your post really relieved my mind and put things in better perspective.



Thank you for your testimony as well.

But I must ask... is there a sin even now that you are saved that you have done more than once? If so, how do you feel about that when it comes to your Christian faith? And how is it different than habitual intentional continual sin?

Whenever I've asked God a question, I do not get an audible or visual answer. The only possible answer I get is from the Bible. In regards to the sin of fornication, all I see in the Bible is that it says a fornicator cannot inherit the kingdom of God. I feel like that's for anyone who considers themselves a Christian or not. I do not see any verse that says, "if you believe in Jesus and fornicate, you still get to go to Heaven." And I don't see anything that says, "Jesus' death on the cross forgave past, present, and future sins." I just think that a Christian that slips up and fornicates either habitually or non-habitually is not truly saved.

Regarding your first question, I don't count my sins. God doesn't count my sins either. He forgives and remembers them no more. If God forgives and forgets, why should I still hold on to it? To answer your question, I don't know as I said, I don't count. There is nothing I am particularly struggling with at the moment but have in the past and it made my faith even stronger as I learnt and drew strength from the Lord and asked Him to help me. For the second part, I'm not going to get into the sin classification debate. Read the scriptures I gave you.

Question 2. Learn to wait on the Lord for a response. I get the feeling you're trying hard to justify your sin. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. If you really love Him, you will love the things He loves and hate the things He hates. The Holy spirit is there to help us. Falling in love takes time ... it's a process. It takes you knowing God and appreciating Him. Pooh Bear, again seek God's face and leave the issue of sin alone for now, it is distracting you from the things that really matter. I will be praying for you

ETA: For the first question, there was actually something I fell into continuously a couple of months ago. I struggled and during that time, I was talking to God and when I sinned, I would repent and tell Him why I sinned, how I felt, how the situation is making me feel, How I feel when He doesn't respond asap, and so on. I would cry and tell Him I might do it again because I need release but He helped me overcome it and then even blessed me . Real Christianity is a relationship ... so no, it didn't negatively affect my 'Christian faith'.

 

[LatterGlory]

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
(Joh 16:7-11)

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. [/B](Rom 7:20-25)

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
(Jas 1:12-15)

 

[LatterGlory]

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:3-8)


Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(Rom 8:10-14)

 

[nathansgirl1908]

Re: Knowledge of Christ...but Lack of Belief and RelationshipU

My purpose is to this... I wish there was some type of unity on this but maybe that's being overly optimistic...

Unity in WHAT? That's the thing. What is it you want everyone to agree on? That continuing to sin doesn't make you a saved Christian? You don't need unity on that point.

I also feel like ALL sin is the same... habitually done against God. People do sins because they want to. I just don't see any other way around it. I want to know how can a sin be non-habitual, unintentional? If you have it all together, how come you can't answer that question? Just telling me "you ask the same question SEVERAL times" doesn't help at all. Have you done a sin more than once as a truly converted Christian? If so, how do you feel about that in relation to your salvation?

I HAVE answered this question before. Several people HAVE answered this question before. I have done a sin more than once. Until I repented, I felt convicted. Once I truly repented and turned away, I was able to move on. I don't feel it affected my salvation.

But I fail to see how asking others about this is going to help YOU.

Maybe I should stop asking and let it go. I will eventually. I believe that was the purpose of this thread as well to help me come to grips and see what other people believe. All the answers I have gotten are helping, even though I will ask the same question in a different way, form, or fashion. It's just my way of expressing, venting, and relieving my mind and my heart. And I'm not trying make anything apply to others... I'm just trying to see what others think about it. And you say "to others who know the truth?" Well, the TRUTH apparently is different among every Christian.

Yes, I think you should let it go. You are getting the same responses you have gotten before. And you say they are helping, but you said that before. Clearly they didn't help because you are right back asking this question. And seeing what others believe is what is getting you in trouble in the first place. You say otherwise, but I see some dialogue you have on here with professed atheists who have made it clear that they want others to feel the way they do.

And you may be right about some spirit that is over me. I posted in another thread about this sleep paralysis experience I had last Friday night. I was laying in my bed awake. All of a sudden, I couldn't move, or speak. This has happened several times before in my life, but this time, I heard mumbling in my ear. Now hearing sound has never happened during my sleep paralysis experiences! I know for a fact I wasn't dreaming nor hallucinating. I could actually feel the breath from this mumbling on my ear. The mumbling happened twice then after a few seconds, I was released from my paralysis. So maybe there is a spirit that needs to be defeated. I am exhausted with the thoughts of religion and belief. Maybe none of it is for me.

Yes, that's a spirit. And you are opening the door for it to come further and further into your life. This is the time to dig in your heels. Confess the Word over and over even if it feels mechanical. You are going to have to fight that spirit, and it won't be easy. When you feel down, sing a song of praise. Even if you feel stupid or you feel it doesn't make sense, keep doing it.

 

[Poohbear]

Regarding your first question, I don't count my sins. God doesn't count my sins either. He forgives and remembers them no more. If God forgives and forgets, why should I still hold on to it? To answer your question, I don't know as I said, I don't count. There is nothing I am particularly struggling with at the moment but have in the past and it made my faith even stronger as I learnt and drew strength from the Lord and asked Him to help me. For the second part, I'm not going to get into the sin classification debate. Read the scriptures I gave you.

Question 2. Learn to wait on the Lord for a response. I get the feeling you're trying hard to justify your sin. The greatest commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. If you really love Him, you will love the things He loves and hate the things He hates. The Holy spirit is there to help us. Falling in love takes time ... it's a process. It takes you knowing God and appreciating Him. Pooh Bear, again seek God's face and leave the issue of sin alone for now, it is distracting you from the things that really matter. I will be praying for you

ETA: For the first question, there was actually something I fell into continuously a couple of months ago. I struggled and during that time, I was talking to God and when I sinned, I would repent and tell Him why I sinned, how I felt, how the situation is making me feel, How I feel when He doesn't respond asap, and so on. I would cry and tell Him I might do it again because I need release but He helped me overcome it and then even blessed me . Real Christianity is a relationship ... so no, it didn't negatively affect my 'Christian faith'.

Thank you for your response, but the bolded part is not what I am trying to do at all. I'm not here to justify sin or anything not good. I'm actually trying to do the opposite... speak against sin and stop sinning.

I guess that is something I need to do is to not keep track of how many times I sin or worry about whether or not what I'm doing or not doing is a sin, especially if it's clearly not stated in the Bible.

 

[Poohbear]

Re: Knowledge of Christ...but Lack of Belief and RelationshipU

Unity in WHAT? That's the thing. What is it you want everyone to agree on? That continuing to sin doesn't make you a saved Christian? You don't need unity on that point.

I HAVE answered this question before. Several people HAVE answered this question before. I have done a sin more than once. Until I repented, I felt convicted. Once I truly repented and turned away, I was able to move on. I don't feel it affected my salvation.

But I fail to see how asking others about this is going to help YOU.

Yes, I think you should let it go. You are getting the same responses you have gotten before. And you say they are helping, but you said that before. Clearly they didn't help because you are right back asking this question. And seeing what others believe is what is getting you in trouble in the first place. You say otherwise, but I see some dialogue you have on here with professed atheists who have made it clear that they want others to feel the way they do.

Yes, that's a spirit. And you are opening the door for it to come further and further into your life. This is the time to dig in your heels. Confess the Word over and over even if it feels mechanical. You are going to have to fight that spirit, and it won't be easy. When you feel down, sing a song of praise. Even if you feel stupid or you feel it doesn't make sense, keep doing it.

Unity in Christian belief...NOT in what I believe, but in God's truth. But I know that is unrealistic and impossible according to YOU.

I am NOT trying to get people to believe "continuing to sin doesn't make you a saved Christian". I was just trying to see if anyone can see where I was coming from with that concept. Like Volver_Alma_Gitana said: "It's not correcting and swaying another to believe any side, it's reaffirming what one has been taught and follow." That's how it's going to help ME. I want to see how other Christian's thought processes are when it comes to sin if we apparently can't stop sinning 'til we die.

And no, no one has personally expressed an answer for doing the same sin more than once. That is a new question I asked in this particular thread. Thanks for answering it.

And no one in that 'atheist' thread has told me that they want others to feel the way they do, at least that's not what I got out of the 'atheist' thread. I can just relate to some of the experiences expressed in that 'atheist' thread. I am just being real with my thoughts and feelings in the Christian forum and the Atheist/Free-Thinker thread. I'm not ashamed of how I feel so I'm going to express it either here or there.

You act as if you have everything together and have this truth that all Christians know and believe. Can you honestly say that everything is as clear as clean water with the Christian faith to you?

 

[Jynlnd13]

Re: Knowledge of Christ...but Lack of Belief and RelationshipU

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[CoilyFields]

Ephesians 1: 8-9
" For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

John 3:16
" For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes on him shall not persish but have everlasting life."

These two scriptures are very clear about salvation; its an unearned gift, given by the grace of Gods love to whoever BELIEVES. period.

Do not confuse salvation with sanctification. salvation is our free ticket to heaven...sanctification is the process by which after conversion we become more Christ-like (holy).
Sanctificaiton is like this:
"As we mature in Christ we should be sinning less but feeling more guilty when we do"

If thats not enough...we know that our bodies are the temple of the holy ghost...granted to us upon salvation. The Bible talks about not grieving the Holy Spirit due to our sins (Eph 4:30).

Stop trying to earn what God has already given you freely.

Jeremiah 3:14 God says that he is MARRIED to the backslider...the one who knows him and is STILL doing wrong.

Girl this just goes to show you how GOOD our GOD is!!! It doesnt depend on me...cuz if it did then I would only have my salvation 2 days a week for an hour each day...cuz Im prone to do things I shouldnt cuz Im housed in this flesh, tempted by satan and my own lusts.

II cor 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

We had to trade our guilt for his innocence...and now we are righteous...not due to our works but simply on the merit of Jesus' perfection.

Ever heard of double jeopardy? In the american court system you cannot be tried for the same crime twice...if youve been found innocent you can confess, have a video etc. but you still cannot be tried again for that crime. Same with salvation. Once our punishment of death was retracted...we cant be found newly guilty and no longer worthy of the gift (cause remember we werent worthy in the first place...we got off on somebody elses innocence). And that is why as satan is at the throne of GOd constantly accusing the brethren (us) before God night and day he is already defeated...cuz though his accusations are usually true...we've already been tried and found innocent because of the blood of the lamb (Revelations 12:10-11).