Let's squash this right now!

[Irresistible]

Let's squash this right now! (OILS-SEALING &MOISTURE)

I keep seeing over and over 'Oils dont moisturize they only seal'

over and over again I see this! IMO some oils DO moisturize, I mean I dont have all the scientific proof and break downs and what not. But my hair and how it feels is my source to know ,It tells me that absolutely and positively for sure that some oils do absorb into the hair shaft and have properties that add moisture! I feel it!

of course some oils dont and those oils I guess would be the ones that coat the hair and 'seal' in moisture! I dont know what oils are which, but I know for a fact my beloved Coconut oil does moisturize! not only my hair but my skin too! So whats with all this 'Oils dont moisturize' its just not true, its just not true ya'll! It cant be!

ya'll stop saying that, because SOME OILS DO MOISTURIZE! I know because my hair tells me so!

Have any of you found your hair tells you the same thing about certain oils?

 

[Neith]

I don't agree. No oil moisturizes.

Just because some (many naturals ones actually) can penetrate the hair shaft doesn't mean that they actually moisturize.

However, natural oils that penetrate DO condition (soften the hair). They do this best when applied to WET or DAMP hair.

Think of it this way...

If you have a bowl of coconut oil and you put a lock of DRY hair in in the bowl and take it out... would it be moisturized? Not just softer or shinier, but having real moisture (h2O) in it?

But if you took wet hair and dipped it in the oil, it would be moisturized and stay moist and soft longer.

You always need MOISTURE to MOISTurize.

 

[Irresistible]

I'm confused Neith, if they penetrate, condidtion and soften isnt that moisturizing? I do feel a difference on wet hair as opposed to dry hair but I still feel I gain moisture from it in that instance as well. I put oil on my edges nightly (dry) and i can see and feel the difference and it feels moisturized. It might not be the same as on wet hair, but still gaining benefit. I put it on my face or skin and its just soft soft soft, and supple, thats without water too. So I am confused at the statement that they dont moisturize

I don't agree. No oil moisturizes.

Just because some (many naturals ones actually) can penetrate the hair shaft doesn't mean that they actually moisturize.

However, natural oils that penetrate DO condition (soften the hair). They do this best when applied to WET or DAMP hair.

Think of it this way...

If you have a bowl of coconut oil and you put a lock of DRY hair in in the bowl and take it out... would it be moisturized? Not just softer or shinier, but having real moisture (h2O) in it?

But if you took wet hair and dipped it in the oil, it would be moisturized and stay moist and soft longer.

You always need MOISTURE to MOISTurize.

 

[shtow]

Well by the looks of your hair I wouldnt argue with you about it

I think castor oil and coconut oil are gold though!!!!

 

[Neith]

I say moisturizing is actually adding water to the hair.

Oils don't have water in them, so on their own they don't moisturize.

It may make the hair soft and shiny on it's own... but it'd be dry as the desert if you never used water or water based products in your hair.

 

[Neith]

Well by the looks of your hair I wouldnt argue with you about it

lol, I know, right?

but still... I'm pretty sure that I have it figured out.

 

[Irresistible]

Well by the looks of your hair I wouldnt argue with you about it

I think castor oil and coconut oil are gold though!!!!

whew oils are like gold diamonds and pearls! I really need to try Castor Oil, I Havent yet and been meaning to. *add that to the list*

been hearing about it too much for too long

I guess the best one is the Jamaican Black Castor oil? Is that true or does it matter?

 

[Irresistible]

lol, I know, right?

but still... I'm pretty sure that I have it figured out.

hehe ur too funny!

I dunno what I'm sealing in then when I put it on dry hair, but its working! maybe I'm fertalizing it by sealing in the days layer of dirt

who knows!

 

[Irresistible]

I say moisturizing is actually adding water to the hair.

Oils don't have water in them, so on their own they don't moisturize.

It may make the hair soft and shiny on it's own... but it'd be dry as the desert if you never used water or water based products in your hair.

I do agree with that at some point you are going to need some water

so maybe the hairshaft holds some moisture from before so that its still moisturized when adding to dry hair if it has seen water or a conditioner or something recently ,its still sealing in that you think?

 

[AsTheCurlzTurns]

I've often wondered this too Irresistable, so thanks for putting it out there and Neith thank you for the excellent explanation. Yep ya'll just schooled me just now!

And ummm, I agree with the comment about I wouldn't argue with ya Irresistable with all that such beautiful hair you got on your head! Me loves me some Coconut oil too!

 

[Neith]

I do agree with that at some point you are going to need some water

so maybe the hairshaft holds some moisture from before so that its still moisturized when adding to dry hair if it has seen water or a conditioner or something recently ,its still sealing in that you think?

Yeah, good point. If your hair's already moisturized oil will help some.

 

[shtow]

whew oils are like gold diamonds and pearls! I really need to try Castor Oil, I Havent yet and been meaning to. *add that to the list*

been hearing about it too much for too long

I guess the best one is the Jamaican Black Castor oil? Is that true or does it matter?

I have never tried JBCO but any product with castor oil really agrees with my hair. My fav moisturizer-BB castor oil in the jar has worked for me since I was a kid. When I seal this with coconut oil my hair is blinged out. I really do think castor oil and coconut oil moisturize because they make my hair feel, well, moisturized! lol When I was in middle school I used castor oil by itself and maintained healthy apl hair. But thanks to the LHCF Gods I refuse to use these 2 oils now w/o using my water based BB first lol

 

[Irresistible]

I've often wondered this too Irresistable, so thanks for putting it out there and Neith thank you for the excellent explanation. Yep ya'll just schooled me just now!

And ummm, I agree with the comment about I wouldn't argue with ya Irresistable with all that such beautiful hair you got on your head! Me loves me some Coconut oil too!

Thank you girl, whew coconut oil will never do you wrong! nope!

I still cant figure out exactly whats going on. But its working whatever its doing, it is wonderful on wet hair and I do understand that its sealing it in then, but on dry hair I really do see softness and what not too! to some degree! but you know, i just like to pour oil over my head. I'm an oil freak

 

[Irresistible]

I have never tried JBCO but any product with castor oil really agrees with my hair. My fav moisturizer-BB castor oil in the jar has worked for me since I was a kid. When I seal this with coconut oil my hair is blinged out. I really do think castor oil and coconut oil moisturize because they make my hair feel, well, moisturized! lol When I was in middle school I used castor oil by itself and maintained healthy apl hair. But thanks to the LHCF Gods I refuse to use these 2 oils now w/o using my water based BB first lol

I'm defintely looking into Castor oil now!

 

[Irresistible]

Yeah, good point. If your hair's already moisturized oil will help some.

ok so we have our answer, if your hairshaft is already containing moisture in there then oil seals still, creating moisture retention? but if your whole hair shaft is dry as a bone then the oil can only just sit on the hair just adding lubrication?

my brain just trying to grasp this now

do hairshafts even hold moisture? Cause you know right now I dont even know for sure what I'm sayin is right

 

[Neith]

Yep, it does.

That's why people's hair frizzes up and reverts in humidity. Hair absorbs and holds water.

It's probably held in the inside of the hair, beyond the cuticles. Which would explain why it's important to have your cuticles be in good shape and laying down.

 

[Irresistible]

Yep, it does.

That's why people's hair frizzes up and reverts in humidity. Hair absorbs and holds water.

It's probably held in the inside of the hair, beyond the cuticles. Which would explain why it's important to have your cuticles be in good shape and laying down.

ok so now it makes sense! yay!

now I know how to explain why I felt oils gave me moisture!

 

[Neith]

ok so now it makes sense! yay!

now I know how to explain why I felt oils gave me moisture!

We're so smart lol

 

[DivaD04]

i can say the oil molecules are to big that's why it doesnt penetrate but i know folks are still going to ? y! so here's a post from sistaslick...she thoroughly explained it so read if ya wanna know....

Our hair naturally contains moisture, but because our hair is also naturally porous, keeping the moisture inside is a difficult task. Sources of outside moisture, or external moisture supplementation is a must for black hair. Water molecules and moisture from these supplemental moisturizing products easily passes into the hair shaft, but they pass out just as easily. The moisture you apply needs to held in by something. Oil.
A light coating of oil on top will help seal the moisture inside. Oils are made of large molecules. These molecules are too large to absorbed by the hair strand. Applying oils to the hair and scalp will coat them and trap moisture that is inside on the inside and moisture that is outside on the outside. The key is to lock in the moisture within the strands with your oil. If you use oils without a moisturizer or before one, the oil will seal the moisture out of the hair strand and lead to eventual dryness. This technique of moisturizing and sealing has really been helpful to me and is a resonating hallmark of my regimen. Moisturizing success is all in the order in which you apply your products.

Perhaps a words like "nourish" would be better than moisturize. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me to recommend a good oil that moisturizes, I would be rich! Oil alone will not and cannot moisturize within the hair shaft. An oil can only coat the outside of the strand, and give it shine- the illusion of moisture. Again, the molecules that make oil are much too large to penetrate. Oil molecules are "hydro-phobic" which means they repel and do not readily mix with water. Remember, if you apply an oil product to your hair before you have added a moisturizing product, you have created a seal on your hair strand that water and moisture cannot penetrate.

i hth!

 

[Neroli]

Wow, this thread is so timely for me cuz I have just been trying to google “hair oils” and such to try and figure out, ummm, hair oils. So far, found this abstract of an article (I can’t find the whole thing, but I’ll keep looking): http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.0142-5463.2005.00278_3.x that suggests polyunsaturated oils do not penetrate or do so sparingly because of their large molecules, but monounsaturated oils do readily penetrate hair because they have more compact (smaller) molecular structure. Soooooooo, I’ve come to the following tentative conclusions:

1. all oils “lubricate” – that is they reduce friction by providing a smooth film as a covering over parts that move against each other. However, hair oils can be categorized two ways:

2. penetrating oils: the kind that actually “absorbs” into the hair or skin and I believe these are the more “moisturizing” oils, especially when used on WET hair because they emulsify with the water and then penetrate. Some mono/penetrating oils are: castor, jojoba, emu, olive, rapeseed, hazelnut, almond, avocado, sesame, etc. (please correct and/or add to this list)

3. sealing oils: the kind that create “barrier” on top of the hair or skin, sealing things in or out. So, maybe these oils will weigh wet hair down more because doesn’t penetrate inside with the water, but rather sits on top going nowhere. I think they may work well when used very sparingly on DRY hair. Some poly/sealing oils are: sunflower, safflower, corn (please correct and/or add to this list)

4. Popular hair oils I did not find a definitive answer: coconut, palm oil, palm kernel nut oil = these are “saturated” fatty oils so can’t figure out where they fit in the penetrating vs. sealing categories

Hmmmm, in light of Sisterslick’s explanation, perhaps should be looking at the SIZE of the oil molecules and not whether it is mono or poly? IDK . . . .

 

[Prettyeyes]

Great posts and yes we are some very deep thinkers on this board!!!!!!

 

[Neith]

i can say the oil molecules are to big that's why it doesnt penetrate but i know folks are still going to ? y! so here's a post from sistaslick...she thoroughly explained it so read if ya wanna know....

Our hair naturally contains moisture, but because our hair is also naturally porous, keeping the moisture inside is a difficult task. Sources of outside moisture, or external moisture supplementation is a must for black hair. Water molecules and moisture from these supplemental moisturizing products easily passes into the hair shaft, but they pass out just as easily. The moisture you apply needs to held in by something. Oil.
A light coating of oil on top will help seal the moisture inside. Oils are made of large molecules. These molecules are too large to absorbed by the hair strand. Applying oils to the hair and scalp will coat them and trap moisture that is inside on the inside and moisture that is outside on the outside. The key is to lock in the moisture within the strands with your oil. If you use oils without a moisturizer or before one, the oil will seal the moisture out of the hair strand and lead to eventual dryness. This technique of moisturizing and sealing has really been helpful to me and is a resonating hallmark of my regimen. Moisturizing success is all in the order in which you apply your products.

Perhaps a words like "nourish" would be better than moisturize. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked me to recommend a good oil that moisturizes, I would be rich! Oil alone will not and cannot moisturize within the hair shaft. An oil can only coat the outside of the strand, and give it shine- the illusion of moisture. Again, the molecules that make oil are much too large to penetrate. Oil molecules are "hydro-phobic" which means they repel and do not readily mix with water. Remember, if you apply an oil product to your hair before you have added a moisturizing product, you have created a seal on your hair strand that water and moisture cannot penetrate.

i hth!

I agree and disagree.

Yes, oil doens't truly moisturize, but some oils CAN penetrate the hair shaft. Different oils have different molecular sizes.

Wow, this thread is so timely for me cuz I have just been trying to google “hair oils” and such to try and figure out, ummm, hair oils. So far, found this abstract of an article (I can’t find the whole thing, but I’ll keep looking): http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.0142-5463.2005.00278_3. that suggests polyunsaturated oils do not penetrate or do so sparingly because of their large molecules, but monounsaturated oils do readily penetrate hair because they have more compact (smaller) molecular structure. Soooooooo, I’ve come to the following tentative conclusions:

1. all oils “lubricate” – that is they reduce friction by providing a smooth film as a covering over parts that move against each other. However, hair oils can be categorized two ways:

2. penetrating oils: the kind that actually “absorbs” into the hair or skin and I believe these are the more “moisturizing” oils, especially when used on WET hair because they emulsify with the water and then penetrate. Some mono/penetrating oils are: castor, jojoba, emu, olive, rapeseed, hazelnut, almond, avocado, sesame, etc. (please correct and/or add to this list)

3. sealing oils: the kind that create “barrier” on top of the hair or skin, sealing things in or out. So, maybe these oils will weigh wet hair down more because doesn’t penetrate inside with the water, but rather sits on top going nowhere. I think they may work well when used very sparingly on DRY hair. Some poly/sealing oils are: sunflower, safflower, corn (please correct and/or add to this list)

4. Popular hair oils I did not find a definitive answer: coconut, palm oil, palm kernel nut oil = these are “saturated” fatty oils so can’t figure out where they fit in the penetrating vs. sealing categories

Hmmmm, in light of Sisterslick’s explanation, perhaps should be looking at the SIZE of the oil molecules and not whether it is mono or poly? IDK . . . .

Sounds right

I would look at the size, maybe when an oil is mono it is automatically smaller than poly.

 

[Mz.Shug]

So does this mean I need to keep shopping for a moisturizer? I use ORS olive oil lotion and jar as moisturizers and I've been in love with them.erplexed

 

[Neith]

So does this mean I need to keep shopping for a moisturizer? I use ORS olive oil lotion and jar as moisturizers and I've been in love with them.erplexed

That's fine. Lots of moisturizers have oils in them

 

[fluffylocks]

I've been thinking that coconut oil is something like a hummecant that attracts moisture from the air like ghee and castor oil.

Also i've learned that the cuticle of black hair (but maybe just "most") is naturally alittle more lifted, which makes our hair dry sometimes as well as rough and dull.
Other races cuticles are down, and along with being straight, that allows the sebum from their scalp to "oil" their hair and help to seal the moisture in their hair, protect their cuticles, keep the hair detangled and shiny.

If our cuticles are layed down and in good shape, we *should* be able to just oil and not have dry hair.

 

[Mz.Shug]

That's fine. Lots of moisturizers have oils in them

 

[charmtreese]

I have found that if you wash frequently (2x's or more a week), the use of daily moisturizers are not needed. I use oil (ojon restorative treatment, Vatika, and Castor) along with butters (Jane Carter Nourish and Shine) daily in between washes with great results. I also believe that "some" oils can penetrate the hair shaft which adds in maintaining moisture as well as conditioning.

IMO, the reason why people have such a hard time trying to find a moisturizer that works, is because most commercial moisturizers are laden with so much gunk preventing the water that the product contains to penetrate the hair shaft. Therefore frequent washing and or rinsing, steamers, and the use of humidifiers provide much more moisture to the hair than any commercial product ever can...and coupling that with an oil that penetrates the hair shaft will leave your hair well conditioned and moisturized.

 

[gymfreak336]

That's fine. Lots of moisturizers have oils in them

Right.

A good moisturizer, whether skin or hair has 3 major components

1) emollients
2)humectants
3) occlusive agents

Emollients help give softeness and pliability, humctants help draw water/moisture to the hair and occlusive agents seal it all in.

HTH

 

[gymfreak336]

I have found that if you wash frequently (2x's or more a week), the use of daily moisturizers are not needed. I use oil (ojon restorative treatment, Vatika, and Castor) along with butters (Jane Carter Nourish and Shine) daily in between washes with great results. I also believe that "some" oils can penetrate the hair shaft which adds in maintaining moisture as well as conditioning.

IMO, the reason why people have such a hard time trying to find a moisturizer that works, is because most commercial moisturizers are laden with so much gunk preventing the water that the product contains to penetrate the hair shaft. Therefore frequent washing and or rinsing, steamers, and the use of humidifiers provide much more moisture to the hair than any commercial product ever can...and coupling that with an oil that penetrates the hair shaft will leave your hair well conditioned and moisturized.

I agree, that and the fact that people use too much of it improperly. I also think that if people spent more time using a quality deep conditioner, they would need less oil and moisturizers afterwards. If you need moisturizer right after washing and conditioning, you need to change conditioners.

 

[bermudabeauty]

Right.

A good moisturizer, whether skin or hair has 3 major components

1) emollients
2)humectants
3) occlusive agents

Emollients help give softeness and pliability, humctants help draw water/moisture to the hair and occlusive agents seal it all in.

HTH

What daily moisturizer do you use? Since I joined the LHCF a few weeks ago I have started using regular Olive Oil at night and in the morning. Is that good. It does make my hair feel soft and shiny. What are your thoughts?