Mary Mary's new video-GOD IN ME. Too worldly?

[Hotmommak]

I feel that, to some extent, modesty is a personal conviction, but we do all have standards. Overly tight clothing, exposed breasts, etc. are not modest to the world or to the church. In high school, I was involved in an apostolic church. I only work LONG dresses. I recall one time, a lady I was in the praise group with wore a dress that was a little past her knees, and she was rebuked. The dress was not tight, and I don't think she was being rebellious (but I don't know, of course). Also, once, I bought my first "grown up" church outfit. It was a black, pink, and white plaid jacket. I wore it with a white blouse and a black skirt. I was taken to the side and told that my JACKET was too tight! I couldn't believe it! I was so hurt, upset, and confused! I was like 16, and I felt so guilty. I look back now, and I'm even more hurt b/c nothing was wrong with my jacket! I also remember the people who DID wear things that were not considered modest by the church's standards.


Anyway, on to the song/video. I watched the video for the first time today, and I can't really say that I was surprised. I have generally liked mary mary, but when I heard this song...let's just say it matched the video. I am not "in church" right now, so I feel that I can speak from the "worldly" prospective (for lack of a better phrase). This song has a nice beat and is catchy, but it doesn't really sound christian. When I was in church, had this song come out, I would have not listened to it. I say this b/c I reminds me of Trinitee 5:7 and Kirk Franklin...both of whom I did not listen to while in church. I don't know...reminded me too much of the world.

On the other hand, a good friend of mine is VERY involved in her church, as is her husband. They are both very contemporary/trendy people. I don't know much about her husband, but I know that she listens to some secular artists, and she also enjoys trinitee 5:7. I would NEVER question her devotion to God, but I can't help but wonder if it's b/c of where I stand right now.

It really bothers me when the lines between Christianity and the World are blurred. I think that's why I'm where I am right now. The lines got blurred, and it really affected my walk and everything I THOUGH I believed. I've never doubted God, but I guess I have trust issues...anyway. I feel like there's a fine line btw reaching out and conforming.

I understand that Christians are suppose to reach out to the world, but that doesn't mean BECOMING the world. I heard someone say that Christ spoke the language of the people so it was okay for Tyler Perry to say some "mild profanity" b/c that's what the world does. I don't buy that. I know that's another thread, so I'll leave it at that!

 

[momi]

It is also an integeral part of our 'Faith' as Christians to dress in modest apparel.

When God spoke of the outter appearance, He was speaking of David's size and being the younger brother. Out of all of Jesse's older sons to be annointed as the next King of Israel, David the younger and smaller was chosen. His clothing wasn't the issue and I can guarantee you that David was properly clothed.

God has always made it perfectly clear about our apparel. Therefore that scripture is not a free pass to show cleavage...publicly and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You know as well as I do that if the dress code that Mary Mary presents were to be upon the Altar of God ministering God's word, that it would be totally and completely out of order. How we dress and where we wear certain garments does indeed matter.

Jesus made it plain that if the world finds nothing wrong with you, than there's a serious problem. Now why wouldn't the world applaude you for telling them it's okay to stay where they are? That they have no need of change, but to conform Jesus to them, rather than to conform to Him?

I don't have a problem with trendy, but cover your boobs and your butt. It's totally inappropriate to show out and be a distraction to men who truly need to keep their focus on being Holy. Why distract their total surrender of their flesh to the Lord, by having flesh all up in their faces? What kind of Godly witness is that? It judges itsself. People aren't fools, they know Godly from UnGodly appearances. Something in this clock (worldly mindset) is ticking in the wrong direction and denoting the wrong time.

Here's the problem and it's not judgment. The problem is the lax and lazy attitudes of those not making the ultimate sacrifice of being what we are called to. Godly means looking Godly and wearing Godly apparel. The Church should be a lot stronger than it is. But it's weak and stupid. Weak and stupid in the sense where any and all is allowed. We have Chrisitians claiming to be Christians yet they have set their minds to agree with the world's view and not God's ordained view.

We can still be trendy and not look like we've giving it up to the highest bidder. There are things that a woman should only wear for her husband and in the privacy of her life, not the public and especially in the world's view and preaching Jesus is their Lord. The same goes for men. They too, have gone to extremes in the dress codes and it's not necessary.

If you really and truly are out to reach those for Jesus Christ, you don't have to expose yourself. It's unnecessary. When folks dress like this, it's about 'them' and their 'flesh', it has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

There is a 'place' for dressing this way and it's not in the Church. It is not a good representation of it. It's out of order. They know better and so do you and everyone else. When we Minister, cover it up.

Where is that thanks when you need it?????

 

[momi]

With love qt pie...

God does put emphasis on modesty. Further, we all have to be very careful in application of Scriptures to different issues. Again, 1 Samuel 16 deals with who God uses for His purposes. Not because we think by looking at someone, that they may better/worse for a certain job does not mean God cannot use them in their position. This is definitely true.

BUT that is not an issue of modest dress. Verses in the Bible do not contradict each other. It's so important to make sure that we don't apply verses in one way, so that they fall in contradiction with other parts of the Word. If one states that this verse means that God is not concerned with the way we dress as Christians, then that one is in essence saying that 1 Samuel 16 contradicts with 1 Timothy 2:9-10 and 1 Peter 3:3-5. These verses are certainly not in contradiction with each other at all.

Now I'm not accusing you of doing so intentionally at all, but just want to make sure that we are understanding the Scriptures.

Very succinct observation. One simply cannot agrue with scripture.

 

[PrissyMiss]

I feel that, to some extent, modesty is a personal conviction, but we do all have standards. Overly tight clothing, exposed breasts, etc. are not modest to the world or to the church. In high school, I was involved in an apostolic church. I only work LONG dresses. I recall one time, a lady I was in the praise group with wore a dress that was a little past her knees, and she was rebuked. The dress was not tight, and I don't think she was being rebellious (but I don't know, of course). Also, once, I bought my first "grown up" church outfit. It was a black, pink, and white plaid jacket. I wore it with a white blouse and a black skirt. I was taken to the side and told that my JACKET was too tight! I couldn't believe it! I was so hurt, upset, and confused! I was like 16, and I felt so guilty. I look back now, and I'm even more hurt b/c nothing was wrong with my jacket! I also remember the people who DID wear things that were not considered modest by the church's standards.


Anyway, on to the song/video. I watched the video for the first time today, and I can't really say that I was surprised. I have generally liked Mary Mary, but when I heard this song...let's just say it matched the video. I am not "in church" right now, so I feel that I can speak from the "worldly" prospective (for lack of a better phrase). This song has a nice beat and is catchy, but it doesn't really sound Christian. When I was in church, had this song come out, I would have not listened to it. I say this b/c I reminds me of Trinitee 5:7 and Kirk Franklin...both of whom I did not listen to while in church. I don't know...reminded me too much of the world.
QUOTE]

ITA with everything said. Certain churches/religions have different perspectives when it comes to how Christians/the congregation should dress. To me this discussion is on the same level as asking is it acceptable to wear jeans to church? Or should a woman be allowed to wear dress pants? IMHO, this discussion should not even be a debate.

While I do agree with moderation, I think some have a skewed perspective of what is moderate and what isn't. While I don't particularly like Mary Mary, nor this song, I have to give them kudos on dressing trendy, but not overly showing skin. And I realize that my perspective on them is subjective. IMO older women have to remember that they are trying to set an example for a certain age bracket. I still fully stand by everything I said and every scripture I pulled.

Furthermore, I think that people should be very cautious of telling people that they are taking scriptures out of context. I serve the same God you do, and read the same bible you read. At least I thought I did, but maybe I was wrong. Before I read, I pray and ask the Lord to speak to me during my devotion time. Christians need to remember that the Lord speaks to us differently regarding certain scriptures. If that is not what you got from that scripture that is fine, but that is what was revealed to me.

 

[PrissyMiss]

It is also an integeral part of our 'Faith' as Christians to dress in modest apparel.

When God spoke of the outter appearance, He was speaking of David's size and being the younger brother. Out of all of Jesse's older sons to be annointed as the next King of Israel, David the younger and smaller was chosen. His clothing wasn't the issue and I can guarantee you that David was properly clothed.

God has always made it perfectly clear about our apparel. Therefore that scripture is not a free pass to show cleavage...publicly and proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You know as well as I do that if the dress code that Mary Mary presents were to be upon the Altar of God ministering God's word, that it would be totally and completely out of order. How we dress and where we wear certain garments does indeed matter.

Jesus made it plain that if the world finds nothing wrong with you, than there's a serious problem. Now why wouldn't the world applaude you for telling them it's okay to stay where they are? That they have no need of change, but to conform Jesus to them, rather than to conform to Him?

I don't have a problem with trendy, but cover your boobs and your butt. It's totally inappropriate to show out and be a distraction to men who truly need to keep their focus on being Holy. Why distract their total surrender of their flesh to the Lord, by having flesh all up in their faces? What kind of Godly witness is that? It judges itsself. People aren't fools, they know Godly from UnGodly appearances. Something in this clock (worldly mindset) is ticking in the wrong direction and denoting the wrong time.

Here's the problem and it's not judgment. The problem is the lax and lazy attitudes of those not making the ultimate sacrifice of being what we are called to. Godly means looking Godly and wearing Godly apparel. The Church should be a lot stronger than it is. But it's weak and stupid. Weak and stupid in the sense where any and all is allowed. We have Chrisitians claiming to be Christians yet they have set their minds to agree with the world's view and not God's ordained view.

We can still be trendy and not look like we've giving it up to the highest bidder. There are things that a woman should only wear for her husband and in the privacy of her life, not the public and especially in the world's view and preaching Jesus is their Lord. The same goes for men. They too, have gone to extremes in the dress codes and it's not necessary.

If you really and truly are out to reach those for Jesus Christ, you don't have to expose yourself. It's unnecessary. When folks dress like this, it's about 'them' and their 'flesh', it has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

There is a 'place' for dressing this way and it's not in the Church. It is not a good representation of it. It's out of order. They know better and so do you and everyone else. When we Minister, cover it up.

Shimmie ITA with how you feel and where you are coming from? The weird thing is that we feel the exact same way when it comes to representing God, but the point that I was making is that deeming what is sexy is subjective. It depends on your age, your upbringing, and religion.
Now, to me it is not sexy nor is it showing to much skin. However, I will say this, if it was to be worn to church they would probably need to put a blazer on. But that connects with how I was raised. I was raised to believe that you do not wear shorts to church nor do you wear anything sleeveless. Once again, what is considered to be too tight or too sexy is subjective.

 

[PrissyMiss]

With love qt pie...

God does put emphasis on modesty. Further, we all have to be very careful in application of Scriptures to different issues. Again, 1 Samuel 16 deals with who God uses for His purposes. Not because we think by looking at someone, that they may better/worse for a certain job does not mean God cannot use them in their position. This is definitely true.

BUT that is not an issue of modest dress. Verses in the Bible do not contradict each other. It's so important to make sure that we don't apply verses in one way, so that they fall in contradiction with other parts of the Word. If one states that this verse means that God is not concerned with the way we dress as Christians, then that one is in essence saying that 1 Samuel 16 contradicts with 1 Timothy 2:9-10 and 1 Peter 3:3-5. These verses are certainly not in contradiction with each other at all.

Now I'm not accusing you of doing so intentionally at all, but just want to make sure that we are understanding the Scriptures.

I did not use that scripture in reference to it being okay to lead God's sheep looking like a hooker. Lol. I agree that when you step into a leadership postion you have to be careful of how you present yourself. I use that scripture to show how sometimes as Christian we are too focused on one thing and not enough on the other. I was more offended that they put secular artist in the video, and created a concept that had nothing to do with the message trying to be conveyed. Not to mention, I don't agree with the message behind the video.

 

[momi]

I feel that, to some extent, modesty is a personal conviction, but we do all have standards. Overly tight clothing, exposed breasts, etc. are not modest to the world or to the church. In high school, I was involved in an apostolic church. I only work LONG dresses. I recall one time, a lady I was in the praise group with wore a dress that was a little past her knees, and she was rebuked. The dress was not tight, and I don't think she was being rebellious (but I don't know, of course). Also, once, I bought my first "grown up" church outfit. It was a black, pink, and white plaid jacket. I wore it with a white blouse and a black skirt. I was taken to the side and told that my JACKET was too tight! I couldn't believe it! I was so hurt, upset, and confused! I was like 16, and I felt so guilty. I look back now, and I'm even more hurt b/c nothing was wrong with my jacket! I also remember the people who DID wear things that were not considered modest by the church's standards.


Anyway, on to the song/video. I watched the video for the first time today, and I can't really say that I was surprised. I have generally liked mary mary, but when I heard this song...let's just say it matched the video. I am not "in church" right now, so I feel that I can speak from the "worldly" prospective (for lack of a better phrase). This song has a nice beat and is catchy, but it doesn't really sound christian. When I was in church, had this song come out, I would have not listened to it. I say this b/c I reminds me of Trinitee 5:7 and Kirk Franklin...both of whom I did not listen to while in church. I don't know...reminded me too much of the world.

On the other hand, a good friend of mine is VERY involved in her church, as is her husband. They are both very contemporary/trendy people. I don't know much about her husband, but I know that she listens to some secular artists, and she also enjoys trinitee 5:7. I would NEVER question her devotion to God, but I can't help but wonder if it's b/c of where I stand right now.

It really bothers me when the lines between Christianity and the World are blurred. I think that's why I'm where I am right now. The lines got blurred, and it really affected my walk and everything I THOUGH I believed. I've never doubted God, but I guess I have trust issues...anyway. I feel like there's a fine line btw reaching out and conforming.

I understand that Christians are suppose to reach out to the world, but that doesn't mean BECOMING the world. I heard someone say that Christ spoke the language of the people so it was okay for Tyler Perry to say some "mild profanity" b/c that's what the world does. I don't buy that. I know that's another thread, so I'll leave it at that!

I have truly enjoyed reading your post, especially your personal reflections. I pray that you are able to find yourself where God wants you to be. I can definitely relate as I had a similar experience in my walk about Twelve years ago. I just scrapped what I'd always been brought up to believe and started over using the bible as my guide.

Thanks again for sharing.

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie ITA with how you feel and where you are coming from? The weird thing is that we feel the exact same way when it comes to representing God, but the point that I was making is that deeming what is sexy is subjective. It depends on your age, your upbringing, and religion.

Now, to me it is not sexy nor is it showing to much skin. However, I will say this, if it was to be worn to church they would probably need to put a blazer on. But that connects with how I was raised. I was raised to believe that you do not wear shorts to church nor do you wear anything sleeveless. Once again, what is considered to be too tight or too sexy is subjective.

qt_pie, I owe you an apology for misunderstanding, and I mean this from my heart.

BTW: I have trendy items too... :blush3:. I just don't wear them when I'm in Ministry.

BTW 2: I agree with the Blazer, but it would have to button up the the neck........still too much cleavage exposed for Church or representing Jesus.

BTW 3: Mary, Mary can't seem to win with me... It's just that every time I see them they're always wearing something that's too tight, too low, and not right and it's just not ........... right. It gives the wrong image of Christian women.

BTW 4: Have a blessed and wonderful weekend. :Rose:

 

[Shimmie]

Where is that thanks when you need it?????

I'm innocent this time... I didn't steal it.

 

[sylver2]

first 'gospel' song i ever had on repeat...
grew on me..love it! caught my attention..uplifting and upbeat and true

 

[PrissyMiss]

qt_pie, I owe you an apology for misunderstanding, and I mean this from my heart.

BTW: I have trendy items too... :blush3:. I just don't wear them when I'm in Ministry.

BTW 2: I agree with the Blazer, but it would have to button up the the neck........still too much cleavage exposed for Church or representing Jesus.

BTW 3: Mary, Mary can't seem to win with me... It's just that every time I see them they're always wearing something that's too tight, too low, and not right and it's just not ........... right. It gives the wrong image of Christian women.

BTW 4: Have a blessed and wonderful weekend. :Rose:

Aww thank you Shimmie:
BTW I saw the first group of pictures you posted, I think it was you, and I agree that they do dress inappropriate sometimes. You have a blessed and wonderful weekend too.

 

[Shimmie]

Aww thank you Shimmie:
BTW I saw the first group of pictures you posted, I think it was you, and I agree that they do dress inappropriate sometimes. You have a blessed and wonderful weekend too.

No offense at all...

I'm a 'fireball' qt_pie. I have a beautiful daughter, just imagine the 'fire' I gave her as a teen.

 

[divya]

I did not use that scripture in reference to it being okay to lead God's sheep looking like a hooker. Lol. I agree that when you step into a leadership postion you have to be careful of how you present yourself. I use that scripture to show how sometimes as Christian we are too focused on one thing and not enough on the other. I was more offended that they put secular artist in the video, and created a concept that had nothing to do with the message trying to be conveyed. Not to mention, I don't agree with the message behind the video.

Understood, although one can still be dressed inappropriately even without looking like hooker. Not sure if anyone's focus more or less on the clothing, but it simply seems to be the most contested issue in this thread. But beyond that...I agree that the secular artist appearances are problematic. Overall, the mixed message of the video on a whole is a serious issue. As Christians, we have a mission to spread the truth to the whole world and have to live it.

 

[Choclatcotton]

Yea shall know them by their fruit

 

[godsflowerrr]

I don't like the vid at all ...what does this video have to do with the message of the song???? Nothing........I don't get it..........it just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

 

[Laela]

Hi, qt_pie,

Concerning Rules: Let's not forget that Bible itself is a book of Rules. There are Biblical references on how God tells his people to conduct themselves:

Titus 2 (the whole chapter) is a good one.

A Christian's job is to speak out for sound doctrine. Why is it every time a Christian speaks up, they are being "judgmental"?

Concerning Mary, Mary, they themselves have said they are saved: http://www.gospelflava.com/articles/marymary2.html
I don't think anyone here is questioning whether they are saved or not, but some of us are merely observing their FRUIT - or actions. There's a big difference. IMO, this video may as well be a video of BeBe and CeCe doing a duet featuring Lil Wayne and Jay-Z. BeBe and CeCe have also said they are saved. So it would be a very mixed message.

Is is a good thing to be Soulful, Saved AND Sexy..? I don't agree that a saved, married woman needs to be Sexy for anyone but her husband! So there are mixed messages here, too...

I agree with you that it's what's on the inside that matters most. But some times, people take this too lightly or with a grain of salt or worse yet -- as an excuse to do what they want to do. When God is working on us and when we grow in him, what's on the outside eventually will reflect what's on the inside. The Holy Spirit is who keeps us in line in everything that we do and that's an individual thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the root of the problem is that some people, including myself, feel that people are being judgmental. Do you guys understand that to struggling believers and non believers out there this is a huge turn-off? Who wants to be a Christian when there are so many doggone rules. And let's just keep it real, most of these rules are man-made and personal preferences.
We as believers are to present ourselves in a Godly manner, and whether people on this forum realize it or not, it has more to do with the inside than the outside. No matter where I go, who I'm with, people always notice there is something different about me, and that is simply because God lives within me and he shines. I think Christians should be more concerned about what is coming out of our mouths than the fashion choices we make. JMHO.

 

[inthepink]

Hi, qt_pie,

Concerning Rules: Let's not forget that Bible itself is a book of Rules. There are Biblical references on how God tells his people to conduct themselves:

Titus 2 (the whole chapter) is a good one.

A Christian's job is to speak out for sound doctrine. Why is it every time a Christian speaks up, they are being "judgmental"?

Concerning Mary, Mary, they themselves have said they are saved: http://www.gospelflava.com/articles/marymary2.html
I don't think anyone here is questioning whether they are saved or not, but some of us are merely observing their FRUIT - or actions. There's a big difference. IMO, this video may as well be a video of BeBe and CeCe doing a duet featuring Lil Wayne and Jay-Z. BeBe and CeCe have also said they are saved. So it would be a very mixed message.

Is is a good thing to be Soulful, Saved AND Sexy..? I don't agree that a saved, married woman needs to be Sexy for anyone but her husband! So there are mixed messages here, too...

I agree with you that it's what's on the inside that matters most. But some times, people take this too lightly or with a grain of salt or worse yet -- as an excuse to do what they want to do. When God is working on us and when we grow in him, what's on the outside eventually will reflect what's on the inside. The Holy Spirit is who keeps us in line in everything that we do and that's an individual thing.

This is such a great point all around.

 

[blazingthru]

I am learning to ask myself this question if Jesus was in the audience would I do this or that. If Jesus came to my house would I watch this or that or listen to this or that. Because you know if your saved you have angels with you 24/7 what are you showing them about yourself. All of our lives are examine, if we say we are children of God then we are obedient to his word and won't cause others to stumble go out of our way to make sure we don't cause others to fall. Can you imagine the men that were struggling watching these two woman- I like mary, mary i thought they were humble and gifted singers and their voices are still a blessing but their attitude about serving God has changed and it shows in the video its no longer about serving God its about serving the people and giving them what they want to hear. I feel sad for anyone that is about serving the people and not putting the Lord first. In all that we do let it be pleasing to the Lord.

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

I dont like the video because it just looks dumb but I love the song. The video is a bit weird with the type secular artist as well. But they have said (and say) the same thing Kirk, LeCrae, Tye Tribbett. I do believe in contextualizing the gospel and how when deliever the message (meaning using some cultural standards to deliever the message well keeping the gospel the same). The choice of artist in the video was not very good at all but I have no problem with the song.

My hs bestie is so smart... As a musician, I understand the issue that is at hand here. Mary Mary is not just a music group, they are a business, and their business is bringing people the gospel through music. Just like every business has to change their marketing strategy, so do musicians. I think we should all just be happy that they didn't go the secular route where they would get more money and acceptance and support them and buy their CD. Nobody on this thread could do what they do, and if they could they would've done it already, and "better." This is why I can't stand Christians, they have to pick apart everything. Just be satisfied and listen to what God is telling you personally, don't worry about everyone else. And if you are too nosey to do that, think about how to lift your fellow Christian up rather than finding a way to judge.

 

[deltagyrl]

Happened upon this thread and, wow.



James Cleveland sang modest songs but was *allegedly* a notorious pedophile so modesty can't be the marker for who's a real christian.

Bobby Jones is as sugary as they come but...

Steve Harvey cusses up a STORM in his comedy shows but I don't see any protest marches when he hosts those gospel shows on BET. Matter of fact, I'm sure most have watched it.

I love the song and am thankful that Mary, Mary reached out to those who are put off by hypocritical church folx and their interpretation of how to be holy.

There is more than one way to praise God, people.

 

[Shimmie]

I am learning to ask myself this question if Jesus was in the audience would I do this or that.

If Jesus came to my house would I watch this or that or listen to this or that. Because you know if your saved you have angels with you 24/7 what are you showing them about yourself.

All of our lives are examine, if we say we are children of God then we are obedient to his word and won't cause others to stumble go out of our way to make sure we don't cause others to fall.


Can you imagine the men that were struggling watching these two woman- I like mary, mary i thought they were humble and gifted singers and their voices are still a blessing but their attitude about serving God has changed and it shows in the video its no longer about serving God its about serving the people and giving them what they want to hear.

I feel sad for anyone that is about serving the people and not putting the Lord first. In all that we do let it be pleasing to the Lord.

blazingthru...

Your entire post... says it all.

I truly believe that when 'entertainers' dress like the world, that they are wearing just what they 'LIKE' and want to wear... period. If they didn't like it, they wouldn't wear it.

It's not about trying to gain the hearts of others, it's about what they want to wear and now they have an audience to show it off to.

They're not fooling anyone. CeCe Winans doesn't dress that way and she is bringing the hearts of multiple thousands to the Lord. And there are many more like her. . .

Alvin Slaughter, Ron Kenoly, Brian Duncan, Steven Curtis Chapman, Royal Taylor, Chris Tomlin, his wife Christy Nockels; Dennis Jernigan, Natalie Grant....

So many more...

People's lives and behaviours change to the heart of God the Father.

 

[Shimmie]

Happened upon this thread and, wow.



James Cleveland sang modest songs but was *allegedly* a notorious pedophile so modesty can't be the marker for who's a real christian.

Bobby Jones is as sugary as they come but...

Steve Harvey cusses up a STORM in his comedy shows but I don't see any protest marches when he hosts those gospel shows on BET. Matter of fact, I'm sure most have watched it.

I love the song and am thankful that Mary, Mary reached out to those who are put off by hypocritical church folx and their interpretation of how to be holy.

There is more than one way to praise God, people.

Bobby Jones and Steve Harvey are still in the world... these examples don't count...

James Cleveland... doesn't justify 'Mary Mary's presentation...