Masturbation and the Word of God

[Uber]

^^ urm basically to maybe explain what i mean is that the author suggested that caressing one genital part against the other is a good way for men to understand how to bring a woman to climax as well as masturbation. However, once the couples were able to reach climax through penetration it is wise not to do it. Oral sex, from what i can remember was not mentioned in terms of refraining from it. It was more to do with masturbation and the rubbing of genitals against each other to get to climax.........Sorry hoping this is not against forum rules!! Unforunately, someone bought me this book before I got married and I mislaid it. I havent got a clue what the title of the book is. I always wanted to go back and check if I had got it correct but I couldn't find the book.

 

[Uber]

Now, this is a bit odd to me. Married couples should not touch each other's genitals beyond what is needed to 'permit entry,' so to speak? This would even mean no oral sex even in marriage. In what way will this permit Satan's entry any more than having sex will? Thank you for sharing this. Could you (or anyone who has heard of this) elaborate?

oh and apart from the oral sex, as mentioned, i don't think this was adviced as refraining from if both parties were willing, as i say its from memory only but for the masturbation etc between couples this would invoke similar pleasures as arisen from partaking in solo masturbation which requires impure thoughts. I suppose when you entertain impure thoughts or actions etc you allow (maybe even give permission for) satan's entry into our lives.

 

[Mis007]

Wow. Outside of the belief that fornication is wrong, I never got that deeply into it concerning masturbation. If a married woman masturbates while thinking about her husband, I don't really see how that is impure.

Either way, I'm still not completely convinced that masturbation is a sin.

And to be honest, very few people really think about glorifying God while having sex.

Surely it is better to masturbate then to seek sexual gratification from someone else who is not your husband, one would of thought.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

Good discussion y'all. I like that we can discuss the unknown gray areas in our lives. Now to the matter at hand...

And that is precisely what you need to continue to do. Just like with anything else God will not impose his view on you. He will answer you when you are ready to hear from him. It can be hard for some to give this up. No different than anything else (alcohol, drugs etc.). All areas of our lives need to be shared with God. There is no area too small. We as believers must also remember that while it is fine and highly desired to consider all things in the end, the bible must be the period at the end of every sentence. IOW, it doesn't matter what we think. I tried to find loopholes here too. Most ppl masturbating are not thinking of their spouse no more than most women choosing abortion as a means to an end are not under-aged, rape victims, or in danger of dying. For the few who are, if we don't understand every small detail, it still doesn't matter. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Never has been, never will be. All who want to hear will hear.
James 1:5


5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

I'm not sure if you intended to come off this way, but your post came off as though the assumption is that I'm unwilling to hear what God has to say. I'm not unwilling. I think there is genuine question as to whether this is the case. The Bible is pretty straightforward when it comes to listing things that constitute sin. I can literally point to a scripture that states that fornication is a sin or that homosexuality is a sin, etc. We are unable to do the same with masturbation. Which means that man is imposing his/her own heavy interpretations on this.


And for the record, please don't assume that someone making these arguments is having a hard time giving it up. Not everyone who feels this way actually masturbates. There are just some of us who get a little weary of people making everything hyperspiritual and being more convicting than God and the Word.

 

[Butterfly08]

This is just me: I quit because I trust that God will provide a mate for me so that I won't have to play pretend.

I love the lively discussion. Like Nathansgirl, I actually do not find the bible verses clear, especially with the link that Crown posted. I do feel, however, that God is leading me to be against masturbation...which, added to abstinence, makes life that much harder.

ITA with both of your perspectives. I am recently divorced and I have NO QUALMS that God is leading me not only to abstinence but no masturbation until I re-marry. I am 100% waiting on the godly husband that I believe He is preparing for me right now. Is it tough? Yes - VERY. There's definitely a withdrawal period, especially when you've been married for years like I was. But I am demonstrating my faith in Him that He will answer my prayer. And my husband will be receiving a gift, lemme tell you.

I do believe that it would be very difficult to masturbate without some type of lust attached to it, and there are definitely scriptures which expressly forbid lust. I am not aware of any scriptures that expressly forbid masturbation, however again I have no doubt that the Lord is leading me not to do it. I am determined to be obedient and delight myself in Him in the meantime, because His word says that if I delight myself in Him, He will give me the desires of my heart.

During this time my relationship with the Lord has grown like never before. It's almost like a fast. When you forsake what the body craves, there's a struggle between spirit and flesh, but if you hang in there, ultimately your spiritual senses gain strength and clarity. There is something really beautiful and indescribable about knowing that God is speaking to you about your future and all the wonderful things that He has prepared for you - and some of the visions he has shown me and the things He has told me have already started to come to pass. I don't believe my senses would be as sharp if I was indulging my flesh.

So in some of these gray areas in the Word you really do have to ask God for clarity. I am certain of what He has told me about this matter.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

There is something really beautiful and indescribable about knowing that God is speaking to you about your future and all the wonderful things that He has prepared for you - and some of the visions he has shown me and the things He has told me have already started to come to pass. I don't believe my senses would be as sharp if I was indulging my flesh.

Thanks was not enough on this one. This is soooo true. It is SUCH beautiful thing.

 

[Crown]

I wonder how the many many wives of Solomon, for example, survive in their situation (it’s just a thought!).

If you’ve been taught that scratching your scalp is a sin, you (general) will believe that you sin if you scratch your scalp.
It is clear that hurting your scalp is wrong. So, you would prefer to scratch your scalp but not hurting it.

Is it necessary to have impure thoughts to scratch your scalp to be satisfied? No.
Is it necessary to go get a complicated machine to scratch your scalp? Nope. You scratch it with your fingers as you do for your itchy skin.
Is it necessary to scratch your scalp if it is not itching? Watch out maybe you are sick and you don’t even know this.

Knowing that scratching your scalp is not clearly stated as a sin, you do know if you scratch your scalp : there is something.
Then you know you have to find a way to fight or cure your itchy scalp so you wont have to scratch.

It is a matter of strength and prayer.

 

[Prudent1]

I'm not sure if you intended to come off this way, but your post came off as though the assumption is that I'm unwilling to hear what God has to say. I'm not unwilling. I think there is genuine question as to whether this is the case. The Bible is pretty straightforward when it comes to listing things that constitute sin. I can literally point to a scripture that states that fornication is a sin or that homosexuality is a sin, etc. We are unable to do the same with masturbation. Which means that man is imposing his/her own heavy interpretations on this.


And for the record, please don't assume that someone making these arguments is having a hard time giving it up. Not everyone who feels this way actually masturbates. There are just some of us who get a little weary of people making everything hyperspiritual and being more convicting than God and the Word.

No, allow me to clarify. I did not mean to imply that you were unwilling to hear God. Thank you for not jumping to conclusions too. I was a lurker before joining the forum and I am aware that a lot of ppl look at things we discuss here w/o actually commenting. Sometimes, parts of my comments are written the way that they are to address silent observers too. So basically, I meant no offense to you or anyone else. Christianity, as you know is a journey. We all are constantly learning in different ways and from different life experiences to arrive later at the same end.

To the second part that was my 'shoe' (as in if the shoe fits...). I personally received wrong teaching concerning this topic and b/c of it I had a hard time. I know others have too. I enjoy reading the viewpoints here even if I do not agree 100%. Even if I know others do not agree with me 100%. As to the exact reference in scripture, there are some things I think we have to exercise our faith 'muscle' on b/c we are looking through that "darkly lit mirror seeing only in part." When I said to keep (point blank) asking God what he had to say about the topic, you are exactly on point. He helps us fill in any gray areas (ie missing literal references) since he has all answers and promises to enlighten us since he does not want us ignorant on various topics. I have to do this too. I'm not trying to overspritualize on that. You are 1000% right. Some ppl will not even ask God his opinion for various reasons but you have. He will answer you. Thanks for giving me a chance to clarify

1 Corinthians 13:12

12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

 

[Guitarhero]

This is just me and I hope that it doesn't offend anybody in any way but in my life and where God was leading me before I converted, my wake up call that something was definitely wrong with it was a vision in my mind's eye, that there were ugly, disgusting evil demons participating in this act. It was for a split second. I've never looked at it the same way again, although I do not discredit any of the opinions on here. I think it's very important to see many sides of everything.

Of course, if God would go ahead and provide me my husband, it would be no issue and both sides would be jumping backflips daily over joy.

 

[Prudent1]

Of course, if God would go ahead and provide me my husband, it would be no issue and both sides would be jumping backflips daily over joy.
Ok?!

 

[CoilyFields]

There are many issues that have not been expressly mentioned in scripture that we seek answers to. I have mentioned before in other topics that there is a helpful way to categorize certain things as right or wrong. The first being, if its not directly in scripture...is it there indirectly? Using another word/phrase. If not, is there a similar or umbrella issue mentioned in the Bible under which this may likely fall? What is the principle that is taught in scripture and can it apply to this?

Masturbation is for sexual satisfaction. What we DO know from scripture:

1. God created sex for the marriage bed
2. Our bodies belong to our mates
3. The bible says its better to marry than to burn with passion
4. The Bible has strong rules against fornicaiton and sexual immorality
5. There are TONS of scripture on this sin-it really stands out-because our bodies are the temple of the Holy Ghost and this is the only sin that we do inside of our bodies.
6. The bible has warned us against lust

So personally, I conclude from the above that masturbation is a sin for a single person-especially #3 seems to indicate that if you are not married then you may at times burn with passion-unsatisfied passion with no way to quench it. I also think there is such a slippery slope with masturbation-fantasizing/lust more often than not accompany it-that it may be safer to stay away from it even if you dont think its wrong.

Like I said earlier I wasnt sure about masturbation for married people...but it seems that maybe since our bodies belong to our spouses, if that is something that they desire for us to do-agree that it is ok...then its not wrong... I'm Leaning toward that viewpoint based on the above. And then its ok for masturbation to include fantasizing/lusting after your spouse.

But I too enjoy these discussions ladies. Iron sharpens Iron and its always good for us to discuss and learn from each other.

 

[PrissyMiss]

Well... I will post an unpopular but true opinion ( at least) for me. I do not believe that maturbation is a sin depending on how the act is used. For instance, for me masturbation has been the best thing that has ever happened. As a matter of fact, I often think if I had masturbated earlier, besides following this law that I personally feel is brought on by misuse of biblical scriptures, I would have never lost my virginity. Period. I don't do it often, as a matter of fact I don't do it every month.

When I do do it, there is not a lustful thought nor the use of any porn. However, it has stopped me from having pre-marital sex. I just don't feel the need. I can be around a man and not feel that need to have sex. I'm not trying to be funny, but I don't believe that you can stop anything cold turkey.

Based on my situation, there is not one person on here, not one, who can convince me that God would rather someone to fall and commit the sin of pre-marital sex, than to masturbate every now and then and remain pure. I think as christians we have to remember that God knows our heart. I do not believe that he would fault me for masturbating knowing that the reason that I do it is to prevent myself from having sex with a man.

 

[PrissyMiss]

I do believe that it would be very difficult to masturbate without some type of lust attached to it, and there are definitely scriptures which expressly forbid lust. I am not aware of any scriptures that expressly forbid masturbation, however again I have no doubt that the Lord is leading me not to do it. I am determined to be obedient and delight myself in Him in the meantime, because His word says that if I delight myself in Him, He will give me the desires of my heart.

During this time my relationship with the Lord has grown like never before. It's almost like a fast. When you forsake what the body craves, there's a struggle between spirit and flesh, but if you hang in there, ultimately your spiritual senses gain strength and clarity. There is something really beautiful and indescribable about knowing that God is speaking to you about your future and all the wonderful things that He has prepared for you - and some of the visions he has shown me and the things He has told me have already started to come to pass. I don't believe my senses would be as sharp if I was indulging my flesh.

This is where I disagree. If you go back to 1 and 2 Kings you will come across the story of two very similar men. Let's just be honest, David was not that different from Saul.

David and Saul committed acts that most would feel would hinder them from being close to God. Now, while it certainly did hinder Saul, it did not hinder David. I believe it was because David's heart was pure. The bible says that David was a man after God's own heart. While Saul was a man after his own heart.

While I do not believe that masturbation is a sin, even if it was, it certainly would not stop anyone from being close to God. As long as their heart is pure, God will always keep their eyes and ears open.

 

[Vonnieluvs08]

I don't have anything to add. I just want to say that I've appreciated all of the POV. I know I have been struggling with this area and you have all given me a lot to pray about.

Thank you Ladies.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

Well... I will post an unpopular but true opinion ( at least) for me. I do not believe that maturbation is a sin depending on how the act is used. For instance, for me masturbation has been the best thing that has ever happened. As a matter of fact, I often think if I had masturbated earlier, besides following this law that I personally feel is brought on by misuse of biblical scriptures, I would have never lost my virginity. Period. I don't do it often, as a matter of fact I don't do it every month.

When I do do it, there is not a lustful thought nor the use of any porn. However, it has stopped me from having pre-marital sex. I just don't feel the need. I can be around a man and not feel that need to have sex. I'm not trying to be funny, but I don't believe that you can stop anything cold turkey.

Based on my situation, there is not one person on here, not one, who can convince me that God would rather someone to fall and commit the sin of pre-marital sex, than to masturbate every now and then and remain pure. I think as christians we have to remember that God knows our heart. I do not believe that he would fault me for masturbating knowing that the reason that I do it is to prevent myself from having sex with a man.

You better speak on that.

I so totally agree and had to respond because hitting the thanks button was just not enough.

 

[Guitarhero]

Question: What is sex?

 

[PrissyMiss]

According to Webster Dictionary: Sex- is heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis or intercourse ( as anal or oral) that does not involve penetration of the vagina by the penis.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexual intercourse

 

[Guitarhero]

According to Webster Dictionary: Sex- is heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis or intercourse ( as anal or oral) that does not involve penetration of the vagina by the penis.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexual intercourse

By a christian and more encompassing definition. I say auto-sex is still sex. (note: IMHO. This is just for discussion. You'll do what you want and that's not my personal business).

 

[PrissyMiss]

So are we defining sex by opinions or by facts. I can't argue opinions because it is all subjective.

Is making out, minus oral sex, sex? No. It might be a sexual act but it is definitely not sex. A female can makeout with a male and never have sex with him. Not to mention, that masturbation does not have to include penetration of any sort. Therefore, according to definition, although masturbation would be considered a sexual act, it is not sex.


ETA: There is a difference between sex and sexual acts.

 

[Guitarhero]

So are we defining sex by opinions or by facts. I can't argue opinions because it is all subjective.

Is making out, minus oral sex, sex? No. It might be a sexual act but it is definitely not sex. A female can makeout with a male and never have sex with him. Not to mention, that masturbation does not have to include penetration of any sort. Therefore, according to definition, although masturbation would be considered a sexual act, it is not sex.


ETA: There is a difference between sex and sexual acts.

SEXual act. It falls under the category of sex. Intercourse is all the way. Manipulation of the body and mind to produce arousal = sex IMHO. In some cultures, kissing, tongue kissing, holding hands with the opposite sex, petting, etc. all constitute sexual behavior. This is just my opinion (no less worthy than so-call "fact" because another's "fact" might be opinion as well), but I think that we as a modern society have pushed the line so far ahead, we can't recognize what is and what is not. Incidentally, the scriptures warn about lust in the heart being adulterous already. So, it could very well be that any type of intentional sexual arousal is actually sex, just not intercourse. How to find out? Discuss, just like the apostles and the early church fathers as they came to accepted interpretations. Nothing wrong in that.

 

[PrissyMiss]

SEXual act. It falls under the category of sex. Intercourse is all the way. Manipulation of the body and mind to produce arousal = sex IMHO. In some cultures, kissing, tongue kissing, holding hands with the opposite sex, petting, etc. all constitute sexual behavior. This is just my opinion (no less worthy than so-call "fact" because another's "fact" might be opinion as well), but I think that we as a modern society have pushed the line so far ahead, we can't recognize what is and what is not. Incidentally, the scriptures warn about lust in the heart being adulterous already. So, it could very well be that any type of intentional sexual arousal is actually sex, just not intercourse. How to find out? Discuss, just like the apostles and the early church fathers as they came to accepted interpretations. Nothing wrong in that.

Well... we are going to have to agree to disagree. Like I stated in my previous post, I can't argue opinions and I definitely can't argue culture, especially not in spirtual context.
Discussions are good sometimes, but when it comes to spiritual things I stick to the truth. John 16:13 says "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." That's why I can't argue culture or opinions. All I can say is that I know what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me and I have faith that he will do the same for you.

 

[Poohbear]

SEXual act. It falls under the category of sex. Intercourse is all the way. Manipulation of the body and mind to produce arousal = sex IMHO. In some cultures, kissing, tongue kissing, holding hands with the opposite sex, petting, etc. all constitute sexual behavior. This is just my opinion (no less worthy than so-call "fact" because another's "fact" might be opinion as well), but I think that we as a modern society have pushed the line so far ahead, we can't recognize what is and what is not. Incidentally, the scriptures warn about lust in the heart being adulterous already. So, it could very well be that any type of intentional sexual arousal is actually sex, just not intercourse. How to find out? Discuss, just like the apostles and the early church fathers as they came to accepted interpretations. Nothing wrong in that.

I think it's the other way around... Sex (sexual intercourse or oral sex) falls under the category of Sexual Acts.

Kissing, holding hands, hugging, etc. could be considered "pre-sexual" activities, but not necessarily. Not all of these lead to sex nor constitute sexual behavior. I'm sure if you give someone a hug or a friend a kiss, that doesn't mean you are participating in a sexual act nor are you thinking of having sex with them.

And you know what I realized... the Bible really never speaks against sex literally and may not even use the word sex... the Bible always speaks against things such as fornication, adultery, lust, sexual immorality, promiscuity, harlotry, homosexuality, and a few other words I believe that all allude to sexual acts.

And you know what else? The Bible also doesn't clearly speak against premarital sex or sex outside of marriage either. Words and phrases such as "fornication" and "sexual immorality" have just been commonly interpreted to mean "pre-marital sex" or "sex outside of marriage". 1 Corinthians 7:2 is a common verse use to support the notion of sex only being for marriage.

 

[Poohbear]

Here's an article from gotquestions.org about whether or not masturbation is a sin:

Question: "Masturbation - is it a sin according to the Bible?"

Answer: The Bible never explicitly mentions masturbation or states whether or not masturbation is a sin. The Scripture most frequently pointed to in regards to masturbation is the story of Onan in Genesis 38:9-10. Some interpret this passage as saying that “spilling your seed” on the ground is a sin. However, that is not precisely what the passage is saying. God condemned Onan not for “spilling his seed” but because Onan refused to fulfill his duty to provide an heir for his brother. The passage is not about masturbation, but rather about fulfilling a family duty. A second passage sometimes used as evidence for masturbation’s being a sin is Matthew 5:27-30. Jesus speaks against having lustful thoughts and then says, “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.” While there are parallels between this passage and masturbation, it is unlikely that masturbation was what Jesus was alluding to.

While the Bible nowhere explicitly states that masturbation is a sin, there is no question as to whether the actions that lead to masturbation are sinful. Masturbation is nearly always the result of lustful thoughts, sexual stimulation, and/or pornographic images. It is these problems that need to be dealt with. If the sins of lust, immoral thoughts, and pornography are forsaken and overcome, masturbation will become a non-issue. Many people struggle with guilty feelings concerning masturbation, when in reality, the things that led to the act are far more worthy of repentance.

There are some biblical principles that can be applied to the issue of masturbation. Ephesians 5:3 declares, “Among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity.” It is hard to see how masturbating can pass that particular test. The Bible teaches us, “So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God” (1 Corinthians 10:31). If you cannot give God glory for something, you should not do it. If a person is not fully convinced that an activity is pleasing to God, then it is a sin: “Everything that does not come from faith is sin” (Romans 14:23). Further, we need to remember that our bodies have been redeemed and belong to God. “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body” (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). This great truth should have a real bearing on what we do with our bodies. In light of these principles, the conclusion that masturbation is a sin is biblical. Clearly, masturbation is not glorifying to God; it does not avoid the appearance of immorality, nor does it pass the test of God’s having ownership over our bodies.

Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/masturbation-sin.html

 

[CoilyFields]

According to Webster Dictionary: Sex- is heterosexual intercourse involving penetration of the vagina by the penis or intercourse ( as anal or oral) that does not involve penetration of the vagina by the penis.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexual intercourse

The Bible speaks against sexual immorality, generally using the term fornication for those who are unmarried, and adultery for those who are married.

No matter how much we want to include or not include certain sexual acts under the umbrella of fornication/adultery/sexual immorality...the bible only condones sexual activity for the marriage bed. At no other time does it speak in a way that would allow us to believe that its ok outside of marriage. And it talks so much against it...in thought and in deed...that it lends itself to the strictest standards.

Also I think that the idea of masturbation as a preventative measure for pre-marital sex is a good one...as long as masturbation is not a sin. Which is the question at hand! lol. Because if God considers it a sin then you're just as guilty of fornication if you masturbate as you would be if you had sexual intercourse.

My youth pastors have shared with us that anything that gives you that "tingle" outside of marriage is sexual immorality. So yes a hug or a kiss, and even holding hands can be sexually immoral if they produce and entertain those feelings. And yes those feelings are natural for us to feel in our bodies...but thats because we were born in sin and shaped in iniquity so there are TONS of feelings/instincts that are natural but still wrong (or wrong when taken out of biblical context). Thats why the Bible says we have to constantly put our bodies under subjection to our spirits.

I guess my honest question to others is this: I see fornication as on a spectrum

Lustful thoughts-----------------------------------------Sexual Acts

And it seems really strict so even though it doesnt specifically Mention mastrbation (as it also doesnt mention petting nor oral sex), why wouldnt you include it within that spectrum (even though it is clearly a sexual act)?

 

[PrissyMiss]

My youth pastors have shared with us that anything that gives you that "tingle" outside of marriage is sexual immorality. So yes a hug or a kiss, and even holding hands can be sexually immoral if they produce and entertain those feelings. And yes those feelings are natural for us to feel in our bodies...but thats because we were born in sin and shaped in iniquity so there are TONS of feelings/instincts that are natural but still wrong (or wrong when taken out of biblical context). Thats why the Bible says we have to constantly put our bodies under subjection to our spirits.

I guess my honest question to others is this: I see fornication as on a spectrum

Lustful thoughts-----------------------------------------Sexual Acts

And it seems really strict so even though it doesnt specifically Mention mastrbation (as it also doesnt mention petting nor oral sex), why wouldnt you include it within that spectrum (even though it is clearly a sexual act)?

So, basically, you guys believe that you shouldn't do any physical thing before marriage. Like Poohbear said, kissing, touching, and other things of that nature does not have to be sexual. In fact, they are great ways of showing emotions.

To address the second hand of your post, masturbation does not have to be that thing that sets people up for sex. The reason why I say this is because I know people who can't masturbate, and don't masturbate because it opens the door for sex and lust. However, I know those who do do it becuase it closes the door to sex and lust.

However, let's just define fornication. Here is an interesting christian article about fornication:

http://www.christianlibrary.org/authors/Douglas_R_Young/misc/fornication.htm
"The majority of our Greek authorities are generally in line with one another as to the meaning of the word fornication. Fornication is derived from the Greek word, (pornea) and refers to some form of illicit sexual intercourse in general. Fornication can be committed between a man and woman, a man and man, a woman and a woman, or a man/woman and an animal. Our English term “pornography” is also derived from this Greek word. Webster’s Comprehensive Dictionary (Encyclopedia Edition) defines fornication as “Illicit sexual intercourse of unmarried persons.” Though this term is most commonly used to describe sexual relations outside of marriage, it is not limited to unmarried people because Jesus allows “fornication” as an exception to scripturally divorce a spouse (Matt. 5:32, 19:9). Therefore, a married person can commit fornication just as an unmarried person can."

So how would masturbation fall into the category of fornication?

 

[nathansgirl1908]

This is the kind of stuff that either pushes people away from the church or turns them off from ever allowing God into their lives.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have discussions, but I think there is a certain danger in potentially overanalyzing everything. I don't think it is necessary to hint at or advocate for people not to hug or kiss outside of marriage. I understand the thought process related to that idea, but I don't think it is necessary to take it to that extreme.

 

[PrissyMiss]

See this is where my question comes right back into play. If someone maturbates so that they don't give into sexual temptation, which is the presumption that they are trying not to sin, and trying not to sin is equal to trying to please God, how is it not pleasing God?

It is impossible to not have lustful thoughts period. You are immortal if you say that you don't struggle, at any point and time of your life, with lustful thoughts. From what I conclude from the bible, we all have to do something to overcome that, and because it is so natural, to simply stop thinking about it doesn't work for most. There has to be an action to replace that action, and the action that will work depends on the individual.

 

[PrissyMiss]

This is the kind of stuff that either pushes people away from the church or turns them off from ever allowing God into their lives.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have discussions, but I think there is a certain danger in potentially overanalyzing everything. I don't think it is necessary to hint at or advocate for people not to hug or kiss outside of marriage. I understand the thought process related to that idea, but I don't think it is necessary to take it to that extreme.

Man, nathansgirl, we are really eye to eye! I went to church last night and our pastor briefly talked about aguing about elementary spirtual things. Hebrews 5:12 says that "In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!"

Then Hebrews 6:1 goes on to say "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so. "

 

[trenise]

Okay, here is something else to ponder then. Suppose you are in a marriage and it is not possible for the couple to have sex due to medical reasons? Or perhaps even the husband has no desire for his wife. Should the wife then remain celebate, even though she is married, and also never have any sexual gratification for the rest of her life?

 

[Guitarhero]

On second thought....

We are imbued with intellect and the forum is for open discussion. Brains were not required to be left at the church door in exchange for blind faith. I need to discuss and analyze the little bits of something that help me make better decisions in life. There is nothing wrong with analyzing or being different or seeing thing according to our own spiritual needs. No soul was being condemned in my post. I'm asking what sex involves and said that I think that we in modern culture have pushed the line so far, we don't see it as sex. That's not a condemnation. If I wanted to, I could have said that those who pet are going to hell. NO, I don't believe that.

If somebody doesn't want to be Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Buddist, it's up to them as is free volition. Who am I? Heaven is available and offered to all men. Discussing the pertinent issues to refining an individual christian walk might step on toes, but so does belief in Jesus to those who don't think He was God. In other words, just being a christian is a serious offence to other people. So if being a christian or a Muslim or a Jew is an offence to someone else, should you abandon your belief in that faith? No. Please do not attribute something to someone to whom it does not belong.