Masturbation and the Word of God

[Purplelover]

Ok those of you who read your Word know that we are no longer under law but we are under grace and we are guided by the Holy Spirit. So that removes the right and wrong issue of it. It may be wrong for some people because when they even think about it they feel convicted but for others it may not be a problem. Basically that is between your relationship with God. Just like for some drinking a drink may not be a problem but for someone else, they need to stay away. God deals individually on matters that aren'
t clear sin issues like murder.

 

[Guitarhero]

Okay, here is something else to ponder then. Suppose you are in a marriage and it is not possible for the couple to have sex due to medical reasons? Or perhaps even the husband has no desire for his wife. Should the wife then remain celebate, even though she is married, and also never have any sexual gratification for the rest of her life?

I have to clarify beforehand before I get accused of writing the definitive end-all of the biblical doctrine erplexed But IMHO, I think the wife would have the right to divorce her husband if he lost sexual interest in her. That's not a marriage. And if he couldn't due to a medical reason but wished to please her, I think it's perfectly acceptable. They are in it together. And IMHO, I also think that touching genitalia between wife and husband during coitus is okay. I see no reason they shouldn't.

 

[Guitarhero]

I think it's the other way around... Sex (sexual intercourse or oral sex) falls under the category of Sexual Acts.

Kissing, holding hands, hugging, etc. could be considered "pre-sexual" activities, but not necessarily. Not all of these lead to sex nor constitute sexual behavior. I'm sure if you give someone a hug or a friend a kiss, that doesn't mean you are participating in a sexual act nor are you thinking of having sex with them.

And you know what I realized... the Bible really never speaks against sex literally and may not even use the word sex... the Bible always speaks against things such as fornication, adultery, lust, sexual immorality, promiscuity, harlotry, homosexuality, and a few other words I believe that all allude to sexual acts.

And you know what else? The Bible also doesn't clearly speak against premarital sex or sex outside of marriage either. Words and phrases such as "fornication" and "sexual immorality" have just been commonly interpreted to mean "pre-marital sex" or "sex outside of marriage". 1 Corinthians 7:2 is a common verse use to support the notion of sex only being for marriage.

Yes, its's through tradition that people figured out in Judaism and then christianity what was permissible and what was not. They discussed it. Incidentally, it also doesn't talk about monogamy lol! I wonder when that came into play?

About touching, I was just adding about how it used to be considered, even here in the States until pretty recently. We're modern now. It is a sexual (-ly based act...as in arousal) act. That was my point, arousal. That's why I compared intercourse or coitus.

Just making sure people realize that I'm nobody's holy roller at all telling people are they are going to hell every split second. According to them, I'm well on the road to hell just for my brand of faith. I loathe those, actually. I probably just dug a hole with that statement but alas
I don't have any power or authority over anybody's life.

 

[Sharpened]

This should not even be a debate! See how complicated man makes things? People ask for human opinions, but few want to ask Our Father what He thinks. All I can do is say what happened to me via the Holy Spirit's influence. We each cannot say anymore than that. Anything else is the person's own opinion.

 

[Guitarhero]

Well... we are going to have to agree to disagree. Like I stated in my previous post, I can't argue opinions and I definitely can't argue culture, especially not in spirtual context.
Discussions are good sometimes, but when it comes to spiritual things I stick to the truth. John 16:13 says "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." That's why I can't argue culture or opinions. All I can say is that I know what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me and I have faith that he will do the same for you.

I think the problem is we're coming at this from an emotionally charged position rather than actually reading what people have written. I've given every indication that my participation is for discussion. I've said numerous times that IMHO. I'm not telling YOU what to do with your own body. Not at all. Of course you disagree...and vice versa. You have every right to. BUT....I'm not arguing opinions at all. I'm analyzing. To the bolded, you sealed your truth for yourself but it might not be my truth.

As for debate of the subject? I'm the "out" culture here. I see nothing wrong with looking at something. For me and my kind, it's not "this is the way it is and no questions." We are actually encouraged to think about things. I don't see how that is unbibilical (not directed to you...in general). I am being sincere.

 

[Poohbear]

Okay, here is something else to ponder then. Suppose you are in a marriage and it is not possible for the couple to have sex due to medical reasons? Or perhaps even the husband has no desire for his wife. Should the wife then remain celebate, even though she is married, and also never have any sexual gratification for the rest of her life?

I believe it's a sin to withhold sex from your husband or wife...

1 Corinthians 7:3-5 says, "3 Let the husband fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again lest Satan tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

SEE, EVERYTHING'S A SIN! (Just kidding)!

 

[loolalooh]

Why is this thread still on and poppin'? I come into this forum looking for other "lively" threads but this one won't die? I'm with Nymphe - this should not be a debate. Off to respond to some posts ...

 

[Poohbear]

Yes, its's through tradition that people figured out in Judaism and then christianity what was permissible and what was not. They discussed it. Incidentally, it also doesn't talk about monogamy lol! I wonder when that came into play?

About touching, I was just adding about how it used to be considered, even here in the States until pretty recently. We're modern now. It is a sexual (-ly based act...as in arousal) act. That was my point, arousal. That's why I compared intercourse or coitus.

Just making sure people realize that I'm nobody's holy roller at all telling people are they are going to hell every split second. According to them, I'm well on the road to hell just for my brand of faith. I loathe those, actually. I probably just dug a hole with that statement but alas
I don't have any power or authority over anybody's life.

About monogamy... 1 Corinthians 7:2 is a verse that advocates monogamy too... "2 But because of immoralities, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband."

By the way, I didn't see any of your posts as being a holier than thou type attitude. I think your posts have been appropriate.

 

[Poohbear]

This should not even be a debate! See how complicated man makes things? People ask for human opinions, but few want to ask Our Father what He thinks. All I can do is say what happened to me via the Holy Spirit's influence. We each cannot say anymore than that. Anything else is the person's own opinion.

What does Our Father think?

Does He tell some Christians, "Yes, masturbation is a sin", and tell other Christians, "No, masturbation is not a sin"?

 

[loolalooh]

Well... I will post an unpopular but true opinion ( at least) for me. I do not believe that maturbation is a sin depending on how the act is used. For instance, for me masturbation has been the best thing that has ever happened. As a matter of fact, I often think if I had masturbated earlier, besides following this law that I personally feel is brought on by misuse of biblical scriptures, I would have never lost my virginity. Period. I don't do it often, as a matter of fact I don't do it every month.

When I do do it, there is not a lustful thought nor the use of any porn. However, it has stopped me from having pre-marital sex. I just don't feel the need. I can be around a man and not feel that need to have sex. I'm not trying to be funny, but I don't believe that you can stop anything cold turkey.

I am happy that this is true for you. For me, this was not the case.

Based on my situation, there is not one person on here, not one, who can convince me that God would rather someone to fall and commit the sin of pre-marital sex, than to masturbate every now and then and remain pure. I think as christians we have to remember that God knows our heart. I do not believe that he would fault me for masturbating knowing that the reason that I do it is to prevent myself from having sex with a man.

I personally believe He would rather have us do neither, but if it had to come down to either, I completely agree.

 

[Thiends]

Why is this thread still on and poppin'? I come into this forum looking for other "lively" threads but this one won't die? I'm with Nymphe - this should not be a debate. Off to respond to some posts ...

The topic continues because it is relevant to our lives. As you can tell from this thread, the issue is a difficult one. I appreciate other Christians' input and it seems others here feel the same way.

 

[loolalooh]

I love the lively discussion. Like Nathansgirl, I actually do not find the bible verses clear, especially with the link that Crown posted. I do feel, however, that God is leading me to be against masturbation...which, added to abstinence, makes life that much harder.

How has not masturbating worked out for those of you who do not masturbate? Do you feel loser to God? Less tempted to sexual sin?

Does anyone know why Catholics came to be so strongly against masturbation while most Protestant churches are pretty much silent on it?

It works out well when I read the Bible daily and refrain from lustfilled shows/music/movies/arenas. Now, if I watch a soap opera for example, I can see myself slipping. Like Paul mentioned, we have to renew our minds again and again and again. It isn't enough to go to church on Sunday and have one's spiritual fill for the week.

 

[Guitarhero]

About monogamy... 1 Corinthians 7:2 is a verse that advocates monogamy too... "2 But because of immoralities, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband."

By the way, I didn't see any of your posts as being a holier than thou type attitude. I think your posts have been appropriate.

Thanks. About monogamy, what about the men in ancient times? Exactly when did monogamy come into play? Already by the time of Jesus? I've often wondered about that. Was He saying then that we should live according to monogramy as opposed to polygamy?

Debate versus merely discussion. I think it's this way. Some people's christian "culture" is that when someone applies scripture or asks a question and if it falls in between the 10 Commandments, then it's subject to their own opinion of right and wrong,. It then it's a mandate for them. For others, it might be a vehicle to further explore the subject. Me thinks this is the problem with "reading" others. I'm not talking about you...I've just posted too much and wanted to include that here. But just because somebody has an opinion on something does not mean they are saying that another should not do something unless s/he sins. That's my point. I don't know how else to say it other than the myriad of ways I've said it before. Anyhoo.

 

[trenise]

I think this definitely is the kind of topic that is difficult to discuss with your pastor IRL, face to face. Although it may come to that. In the mean while, Christians can discuss this with other Christians and maintain a Biblical perspective.

 

[loolalooh]

So, basically, you guys believe that you shouldn't do any physical thing before marriage. Like Poohbear said, kissing, touching, and other things of that nature does not have to be sexual. In fact, they are great ways of showing emotions.

To address the second hand of your post, masturbation does not have to be that thing that sets people up for sex. The reason why I say this is because I know people who can't masturbate, and don't masturbate because it opens the door for sex and lust. However, I know those who do do it becuase it closes the door to sex and lust.

However, let's just define fornication. Here is an interesting christian article about fornication:

http://www.christianlibrary.org/authors/Douglas_R_Young/misc/fornication.htm
"The majority of our Greek authorities are generally in line with one another as to the meaning of the word fornication. Fornication is derived from the Greek word, (pornea) and refers to some form of illicit sexual intercourse in general. Fornication can be committed between a man and woman, a man and man, a woman and a woman, or a man/woman and an animal. Our English term “pornography” is also derived from this Greek word. Webster’s Comprehensive Dictionary (Encyclopedia Edition) defines fornication as “Illicit sexual intercourse of unmarried persons.” Though this term is most commonly used to describe sexual relations outside of marriage, it is not limited to unmarried people because Jesus allows “fornication” as an exception to scripturally divorce a spouse (Matt. 5:32, 19:9). Therefore, a married person can commit fornication just as an unmarried person can."

So how would masturbation fall into the category of fornication?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this and probably never will. This question is asked with a tone of curiosity and no rudeness at all ...

So say Sarah masturbates to "close the door to sex and lust". Let's say she masturbates 2x a day everyday. Wouldn't God prefer for her to pray to Him 2x a day everyday instead? to run to Him instead of to an act? (I really want to say sexual act.)

Then there's another question. Do you view masturbation as a form of submitting to the flesh? Would it not require greater resistance of the flesh to not masturbate at all?

 

[Sharpened]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this and probably never will. This question is asked with a tone of curiosity and no rudeness at all ...

So say Sarah masturbates to "close the door to sex and lust". Let's say she masturbates 2x a day everyday. Wouldn't God prefer for her to pray to Him 2x a day everyday instead? to run to Him instead of to an act? (I really want to say sexual act.)

Then there's another question. Do you view masturbation as a form of submitting to the flesh? Would it not require greater resistance of the flesh to not masturbate at all?

Kind of conflicts with that "death to self," self-denial thing, does it not?

 

[nathansgirl1908]

I have to clarify beforehand before I get accused of writing the definitive end-all of the biblical doctrine erplexed But IMHO, I think the wife would have the right to divorce her husband if he lost sexual interest in her. That's not a marriage. And if he couldn't due to a medical reason but wished to please her, I think it's perfectly acceptable. They are in it together. And IMHO, I also think that touching genitalia between wife and husband during coitus is okay. I see no reason they shouldn't.

This is what I'm talking about. I know you are stating that this is your opinion, but I find it off-putting to say that she has the "right" to divorce him. Where does that "right" come from? I don't believe that is a biblical "right" because I don't feel that God would be pleased with such an action. To abandon a marriage over sex under those circumstances would be repugnant to me. Marriage is more than sex. I understand folks want to be "satisfied" but really?

 

[Guitarhero]

So, basically, you guys believe that you shouldn't do any physical thing before marriage.

I missed this post earlier. No, I for one am not. When I talk about sex, I'm talking anything pertaining to actual sexual arousal. I know kisses and hand-holding can be innocent. There's no "you guys" and we all have diff. opinions on what is permissible individually and not. I mean to say that this CF is just discussion and that nobody is telling another what to believe, say or do - at least, not myself. I don't see the CF as a ministry at all.

 

[loolalooh]

The topic continues because it is relevant to our lives. As you can tell from this thread, the issue is a difficult one. I appreciate other Christians' input and it seems others here feel the same way.

Well y'all have suckered me in after days of avoiding this thread. (Not sure if my rough humor translates across the screen so I will insert this.)

 

[trenise]

I just wanted to mention that there are certain reactions to medication and medical conditions that can cause a person to become sexually aroused or even spontaneously climax, which have nothing to do with lusting after another person. In these rare, and bizarre situations, the person may masturbate to alleviate tension.

 

[Guitarhero]

This is what I'm talking about. I know you are stating that this is your opinion, but I find it off-putting to say that she has the "right" to divorce him. Where does that "right" come from? I don't believe that is a biblical "right" because I don't feel that God would be pleased with such an action. To abandon a marriage over sex under those circumstances would be repugnant to me. Marriage is more than sex. I understand folks want to be "satisfied" but really?

Yes, my opinion based upon our cannon law. It's my right to follow my own church. Shrugs. She asked, I gave, but I didn't elaborate on the particulars other than to say this is permissible in mine. If it's not permissible in yours, then by all means, please abide by what is lawful where you are. This is why I am constantly saying on here that not all christianity is the same. It isn't, very evidently on CF. Now, just to clarify, I am referring to the scenario where the husband denies her and is neglecting her. That's not a marriage and that can be annuled if approved, according to the circumstances behind it. In my church, it's allowable and they would be able to remarry. I mean, if you don't find it to be authentically christian or not, that's okay. It doesn't bother me.

 

[PrissyMiss]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this and probably never will. This question is asked with a tone of curiosity and no rudeness at all ...

So say Sarah masturbates to "close the door to sex and lust". Let's say she masturbates 2x a day everyday. Wouldn't God prefer for her to pray to Him 2x a day everyday instead? to run to Him instead of to an act? (I really want to say sexual act.)

Then there's another question. Do you view masturbation as a form of submitting to the flesh? Would it not require greater resistance of the flesh to not masturbate at all?

To answer your question if Sarah was to do 2x a day, imho she is headed towards addiction. If she is doing it everyday and 2x a day, it obviously is not working. Therefore, she needs to find another method. It is like spanking a child. If you have to spank a child 6x a day, then it is clear that that form of discipline is clearly not working.

To answer the second part of your question, no I don't think it is, at least for me. Submission is a thing that would require you to completely give in. From my point of view, submission would be having sex of any kind.

 

[PrissyMiss]

I missed this post earlier. No, I for one am not. When I talk about sex, I'm talking anything pertaining to actual sexual arousal. I know kisses and hand-holding can be innocent. There's no "you guys" and we all have diff. opinions on what is permissible individually and not. I mean to say that this CF is just discussion and that nobody is telling another what to believe, say or do - at least, not myself. I don't see the CF as a ministry at all.

This wasn't addressed to you and when I said you guys, I'm was referring to her church. Please don't get it twisted I'm not telling anybody what to believe which is why I said to you earlier that we are going to have to agree to disagree. But like I said before, I don't argue opinions especially not in religion.

 

[Guitarhero]

This wasn't addressed to you and when I said you guys, I'm was referring to her church. Please don't get it twisted I'm not telling anybody what to believe which is why I said to you earlier that we are going to have to agree to disagree. But like I said before, I don't argue opinions especially not in religion.

My bad, when you said "you guys," I assumed you meant all those in this thread who are mast.-con. Hopefully, I still have the right to express myself without someone reminding me they disagree.

 

[PrissyMiss]

I think the problem is we're coming at this from an emotionally charged position rather than actually reading what people have written. I've given every indication that my participation is for discussion. I've said numerous times that IMHO. I'm not telling YOU what to do with your own body. Not at all. Of course you disagree...and vice versa. You have every right to. BUT....I'm not arguing opinions at all. I'm analyzing. To the bolded, you sealed your truth for yourself but it might not be my truth.

As for debate of the subject? I'm the "out" culture here. I see nothing wrong with looking at something. For me and my kind, it's not "this is the way it is and no questions." We are actually encouraged to think about things. I don't see how that is unbibilical (not directed to you...in general). I am being sincere.

This makes me a little upset. Why do people always jump on Christians becuase we won't argue about certain topics? Christians are encouraged to think, however it does not take away from the fact that a fact is a fact. If you ask me what does something mean and I give you a legit definition, and you decide to not accept it because of your personal opinion, then from my point of view we have nothing to discuss. How can two people have conversation when they can't even agree on a fact?

 

[PrissyMiss]

What does Our Father think?

Does He tell some Christians, "Yes, masturbation is a sin", and tell other Christians, "No, masturbation is not a sin"?

You know Poohbear, I believe that this is where the confusion is coming in. I just hope people realize that revelation ( and not the book) does exist, and your revelation is not going to be my revelation.

I believe God is very personal. That's why ten pastors can all preach on the same topic, but not have the same message and be right.

 

[Guitarhero]

This makes me a little upset. Why do people always jump on Christians becuase we won't argue about certain topics? Christians are encouraged to think, however it does not take away from the fact that a fact is a fact. If you ask me what does something mean and I give you a legit definition, and you decide to not accept it because of your personal opinion, then from my point of view we have nothing to discuss. How can two people have conversation when they can't even agree on a fact?

Okay, I see where you're coming from. Excuse me. I'm not arguing anything and I'm not attempting to persuade anybody to do anything. We've all been trained in a certain direction and when we discuss something, we all bring our training to the table. But this is for examination of our own personal lives. I look at all these posts and apply them to myself, to see where I stand in my own walk. People don't have to agree at all. We're all different. But I think it's beneficial to discuss it. Tenins post was very wise, IMHO, because it is a difficult subject to speak to a pastor or his wife about. So, people come here, among other christians. Please don't be upset.

As for the definition, I'm not sure if you gave me the dict. defin. on sex (can't click back yet) but for that topic, I was meaning a christian view of it, not solely a dictionary definition. I'm remembering the views on here, not necessarily the posters of them. If it's that I don't see another's point of view because of my own brand of christianity, then that's another issue. But per the bolded, who, me? People jumping on christians? I'm a christian and they do argue points. However, I'm not arguing one, I'm discussing, looking deeper into something, eliciting responses from others, trying to figure out what it is I believe and how I will apply it personally to my life. So, when you say opinion, do you mean what I think of a subject or if I believe whichever scripture somebody wishes to attach to it to prove the point?

For example, someone could provide:

1 Corinthians 11:13
Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?


And there will be a myriad of interpretations on that scripture and how it should apply in this day and age. Like that.

 

[PrissyMiss]

So, when you say opinion, do you mean what I think of a subject or if I believe whichever scripture somebody wishes to attach to it to prove the point?

Ok, now I see where you are coming from. No when I say "opinion" I'm referring to definitions.

 

[PrissyMiss]

Kind of conflicts with that "death to self," self-denial thing, does it not?

Can you elaborate further?

 

[Poohbear]

I think this definitely is the kind of topic that is difficult to discuss with your pastor IRL, face to face. Although it may come to that. In the mean while, Christians can discuss this with other Christians and maintain a Biblical perspective.

The thing that people don't realize is that the pastor is a man himself who has his own interpretation of the word too. He is not God. He's just a messenger of what he thinks God is saying to us from the Bible.