Some helpful (hopefully) information ... hard water, conditioning, and relaxers

[MissYocairis]

Okay Lovelyness, your braids are making me want to run out and schedule an appointment to get braids of my OWN! (and I haven't worn braids in YEARS!) They are so very pretty!

 

[esoterica]

Since EDTA is the chelator in question, i may buy some caps and put it in my clarifying shampoo.

Phyto Organics® Kelate® - purifying shampoo
Water (Aqua), Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Cocamide DEA, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Hydrolyzed Quinoa (Chenopodium Quinoa) Protein, Fu Ling (Poria Cocos) Extract, Alfalfa (Medicago Sativa) Extract, Lavender (Lavandula Angustifolia) Extract, Matricaria (Chamomilla Recutita) Extract, Panthenol, Aromatherapy Fragrance (Parfum) with Essential Oils of: Cedarwood (Cedrus Atlantica), Eucalyptus Globulus, Peppermint (Mentha Piperita); Sodium Polystyrene Sulfonate, Sodium Thiosulfate, Sodium PCA, Citric Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

It's a dominican salon, they usually use my shampoo (CON) or theirs which usually is Nexxus therappe, I think it's called.

Could it be that your salon is using a chelating shampoo? Most salons automatically do this before conditioning treatments. Or some salons will sit clients under the dryer for longer periods of time because that allows the conditioner to penetrate through all of the minerals (if they are too lazy to just use a chelating shampoo).

But I can almost bet that if they use a chelating shampoo then they would only need to sit you under the dryer for 10 minutes with the same or even better results.

 

[littleaudie]

KeraCare makes a hair treatment wipe that you can use after shampoo to remove hard water build up and deposits. It's available at bss but it is often over looked. It looks like a big white package of hand wipes.

 

[LiLi]

It's a dominican salon, they usually use my shampoo (CON) or theirs which usually is Nexxus therappe, I think it's called.

Good question. Creme of Nature has EDTA in it and that helps reverse the negative effects of hard water. However, if you are using it at home and not getting the same results then it could be a number of things. What do you do differently at home that they do at the salon? The way you wash your hair can make a big difference as well. We'll figure this thing out one way or another.

Oh ... did you see my comment in your PicTrail picture. MAN girl your hair looks sooo purty!!!

 

[_lovelyness]

Okay Lovelyness, your braids are making me want to run out and schedule an appointment to get braids of my OWN! (and I haven't worn braids in YEARS!) They are so very pretty!

Thanks girl ! People really seem to like this style ! I would have never thought it would be the case when I had them done !
If you want to give your hair a braids, nice cornrows with braids are the best option IMO

 

[Candycane044]

Thank you Lili, this is very very helpful.

 

[Candycane044]

Where can we buy the Redken Cleansing Cream?

 

[LiLi]

KeraCare makes a hair treatment wipe that you can use after shampoo to remove hard water build up and deposits. It's available at bss but it is often over looked. It looks like a big white package of hand wipes.

I have those but the instructions scare me. It says to shampoo and then comb the hair out eek: ), then take sections of the hair and wipe section with different areas of the cloth, THEN condition the hair. I might just use them after relaxing. Now if they came out with a chelating shampoo then I would purchase it in a hearbeat because Avlon's products are top quality.

 

[LiLi]

Where can we buy the Redken Cleansing Cream?

You can buy it at any salon retail store like JCPenny, Trade Secret, etc. I would advise against purchasing them at stores like CVS, Target, and any other non-salon stores because usually they are old formulas or outdated. Plus if you purchase it at salon retail stores then you will be able to bring it back if you don't like it.

Just pleeease remember do try to use it all of the time. I use it once a week but only once a month do I let it sit on my hair for 10 minutes. Otherwise, I only use it like a regular shampoo once a week. I swapped a liter bottle with someone for some perfume that isn't sold anywhere in my area and she absolutely loved the Cleansing Cream and she is a very picky person.

If you are having a hard time getting it I would be happy to send you a decent size sample of it. Also, it's pricey in regular salon stores but if you can find a stylist or barber to get it for you, they can get a liter size for no more than $10/bottle from their distributor.

Also remember that this is the chelator that I like. There are other brands that have chelators.

AND ... lastly, if you have been dealing with extreme dryness for a long time then you may not see 100% improvement after the first use. But I am POSITIVE that you will see an improvement after using it just once.

Oh and one more thing ... it will work best if you condition for at least 10-15 minutes since it's cleaning from the inside out.

 

[Candycane044]

You can buy it at any salon retail store like JCPenny, Trade Secret, etc. I would advise against purchasing them at stores like CVS, Target, and any other non-salon stores because usually they are old formulas or outdated. Plus if you purchase it at salon retail stores then you will be able to bring it back if you don't like it.

Just pleeease remember do try to use it all of the time. I use it once a week but only once a month do I let it sit on my hair for 10 minutes. Otherwise, I only use it like a regular shampoo once a week. I swapped a liter bottle with someone for some perfume that isn't sold anywhere in my area and she absolutely loved the Cleansing Cream and she is a very picky person.

If you are having a hard time getting it I would be happy to send you a decent size sample of it. Also, it's pricey in regular salon stores but if you can find a stylist or barber to get it for you, they can get a liter size for no more than $10/bottle from their distributor.

Also remember that this is the chelator that I like. There are other brands that have chelators.

AND ... lastly, if you have been dealing with extreme dryness for a long time then you may not see 100% improvement after the first use. But I am POSITIVE that you will see an improvement after using it just once.

Oh and one more thing ... it will work best if you condition for at least 10-15 minutes since it's cleaning from the inside out.

Lili, thank you so much, I called JCPenny and they told me they had it. I'm going to go pick it up on Monday hehe. I'm actually very excited about this. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

 

[SerenityBreeze]

Great Post! Thanks for the information!! I just love this site!!

 

[secretdiamond]

You are very welcome.

If it says it removes mineral deposits then I would say yes. But to be sure give me the name of the shampoo and I will find out. As far as what ingredient to look for ... well I think there are several. However, EDTAs are supposed to be chelating agents -- such as Disodium Ethylene-diaminetetraacetic Acid (Disodium EDTA) or Tetrasodium EDTA. Also, I believe the ones that don't dry out your hair contain Citric Acids in them to balance the PH? (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Hey Lili you are a God-send to us all. I alwas worried about my water and wondered of it is hard (it probably is). This may be the reason why I have never been able to find a good conditioner! I was doing some research on the net and it looks like the different EDTA's do slightly different things. I think one of them is specifically made to remove copper. I also noticed that some have the EDTA's lower on the list than others. So then I stumbled upon Paul Mitchell's Shampoo Three. It has 3 chelators in it and I'm thinking about trying that one b/c I know I must have tons and tons of mineral build-up eating away at my hair and I need all the help from a shampoo I can get. LOL.

 

[LiLi]

Lili, thank you so much, I called JCPenny and they told me they had it. I'm going to go pick it up on Monday hehe. I'm actually very excited about this. Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

I am glad that you found it!! Also, remember that you can bring it back to JcPenny if you don't like it so you won't lose out. Since it's your first time using a chelator you probably have a lot of mineral build up so you will need to leave the cleanser on for like 10 minutes and then rinse out. Then please remember to deep condition afterwards with a good moisturizing conditioner for at least 30 minutes. Also, if you never used a chelating shampoo and you have hard water, swim, etc. then you will have many years of build up. So you may not see optimal results until you've done it a few times (but spread them out like every other week to once a month depending on how your hair responds). I'm excited for you and I can't wait to hear your results!!

 

[luvSLave]

Just want to add Kenra Clarifying Shampoo to the list.

I went to Ulta yesterday and ended up with this after looking at the Aloe Rid and the Cleansing Cream. The Kenra appealed to me because it has no SLS and has a nice citrusy scent, kinda like a grapefuit.

Sure (but I'm sure there are more than what I am going to list)...

Elucence Moisture Acidifying Shampoo
Nexxus Aloe Rid
Nexxus - Phyto Organics Kelate Purifying Shampoo
Paul Mitchell Shampoo Three
Joico Resolve Chelating Shampoo
Ouidad Water Works
Artec Texturline Daily Clarifying Shampoo

Hopefully you will find one that you really like. I'm certain you will notice a difference if you have had or are having problems with conditioners not performing well. I'm telling you, everytime I use the Cleansing Cream, it's like I fall in love with whatever conditioner I followed it with. I use that conditioner for a little while but then I switch to another conditioner for a while and go back to the old one without using the chelating shampoo and then I'm like "my beloved conditioner no longer works". I'm glad that I spoke to the technician today because it would have never clicked.

 

[cocowhite]

great information...

 

[devin]

wow! i am so overwhelmed with all the fabulous info. that you ladies have posted. this is so wonderful. i know my hair needs a serious overhaul b/c i know nothing about hair products, but know a lot more since joining this site. i will definitely purchase this product and follow the instructions given here. thanks a lot!

 

[loonatick]

Bumping.......

Does anyone have any updates using chelating poos?
How many washes before you noticed a difference?
i live in a hard water area (London) and will be purchasing one soon.

 

[HoneyDew]

Bumping.......

Does anyone have any updates using chelating poos?
How many washes before you noticed a difference?
i live in a hard water area (London) and will be purchasing one soon.

I use a chelating shampoo. I use it everytime I wash my hair. I don't know if I really have hard water, but my hair actually disagrees if I don't use my chelating shampoo, so maybe I do.

I use Kenra's Clarifying chelating shampoo and it took me a few weeks before I realized that that product must be used to get the results I need.

 

[DDTexlaxed]

This info will be useful when I move to Arizona next year. Thanks for the info!

 

[morehairplease]

LiLi thanks for sharing!

 

[baglady215]

Thanks Lili and thanks loonatick for bumping!!! I believe I have hard water and I was going to invest in a shower filter, but this looks like it may be my answer for now!

Question: For those that use a chelating poo, do you follow with a regular moisturizing poo afterwards, or just a deep conditioner?

 

[ravensunshine]

LiLi thank you for sharing this info! I live in Arizona and the hard water here is horrible!!! I have both a water softener (whole house) and a shower filter. I didn't bother with the water softener bc it uses salt and bc I had the filter on the kitchen sink for cooking and in the shower. I thought that the shower filter would fix the hard water problem. I didn't know filters didn't fix hard water!
I dread finding out just how many mineral deposits are built up on my hair- I've lived in AZ for 9 yrs! And on a farm back east with well water before that. Other than a few trips to the salon over the years, I bet I've never had a chelating poo! This may account for my conditioning and conditioning to improve chronically dry hair with little improvement and quick reversion to the problem.
I'll be darned!! Well you live and learn!!! And I just discovered clarifying poos about 2 yrs ago. I thought I was doing something!!!
Do you think that yrs of build up of hard water could account for my hair turnning copper red all the time? Especially the lower half- that's of course older and more worn.
I mean it's so bad I dye my hair dark brown to black to hide it. I thought yrs ago it was due to the relaxers I used to use that was changing the color of my hair. Then when I stopped relaxing, I thought it was the heat I used (blow dryers, flat irons), Now that I've cut back on heat- no more than 1x per week, sometimes not at all- could it be the darned hard water?!!!

 

[Sistaslick]

LiLi thank you for sharing this info! I live in Arizona and the hard water here is horrible!!! I have both a water softener (whole house) and a shower filter. I didn't bother with the water softener bc it uses salt and bc I had the filter on the kitchen sink for cooking and in the shower. I thought that the shower filter would fix the hard water problem. I didn't know filters didn't fix hard water!
I dread finding out just how many mineral deposits are built up on my hair- I've lived in AZ for 9 yrs! And on a farm back east with well water before that. Other than a few trips to the salon over the years, I bet I've never had a chelating poo! This may account for my conditioning and conditioning to improve chronically dry hair with little improvement and quick reversion to the problem.
I'll be darned!! Well you live and learn!!! And I just discovered clarifying poos about 2 yrs ago. I thought I was doing something!!!
Do you think that yrs of build up of hard water could account for my hair turnning copper red all the time? Especially the lower half- that's of course older and more worn.
I mean it's so bad I dye my hair dark brown to black to hide it. I thought yrs ago it was due to the relaxers I used to use that was changing the color of my hair. Then when I stopped relaxing, I thought it was the heat I used (blow dryers, flat irons), Now that I've cut back on heat- no more than 1x per week, sometimes not at all- could it be the darned hard water?!!!

Great info Lili! Great thread!

Hard water leads tends to leave a brassy dull tone to the hair. You definitely sound like you could use a chelating shampoo. The only thing I would worry about is the strength of these shampoos-- especially for those who use them frequently. They are much stronger than clarifiers which are more surface acting. Chelating poos are chemically formulated to penetrate the hair shaft and work on deeper levels. Overuse of either one could result in damage to the hair overtime. So be careful guys! I think it was mentioned in the original post, but chelating poo's are often used as precursors to chemical services like relaxing and coloring b/c of the deep levels at which they work on the hair shaft. They go in and undo the bonding of mineral deposits and free up the inner bonds within the hair so that these services will take better. Regular poos and clarifiers can't do that, so indeed those chelating poos are strong. Always, always follow up a chelating or clarifying session with a thorough deep conditioning afterward.

And if you have a question as to whether or not you should go the clarifying or chelating route, try to clarify first as it is much easier on the hair. If one or two clarifying sessions don't get the job done then you may need some chelating action to set you straight again.

 

[HoneyDew]

Question: For those that use a chelating poo, do you follow with a regular moisturizing poo afterwards, or just a deep conditioner?

I used to use a moisturizing shampoo, but now I don't as much. I just deep condition.

But, that is because the one I use is mild. The Kenra Clarifying chelating is very mild.

But I use a silicone and oil lotion on my hair everyday. I need that kind of shampoo to really clean my hair. I only use it for one rinse, so it may not even be "fully" clarifying because my hair is NEVER stripped. When I don't use the Kenra is when I notice that my hair just does not cooperate.

I used the Joico Chelating treatment and my hair felt really hard after rinsing it out. My hair never feels like that after the Kenra Clarifying Chelating shampoo.

According to Kenra, it is safe for daily use actually. Being relaxed, I think I am fine using it just 2 days a week.

 

[HoneyDew]

I mean it's so bad I dye my hair dark brown to black to hide it. I thought yrs ago it was due to the relaxers I used to use that was changing the color of my hair.

You, know this is interesting because the same thing happened to me!!

My har started turning copper red in certain places and I did not know what it was from.

It got worse after I went to Jamaica on vacation. I think the sun made it even worse.

I thought it was relaxers, too. I had to use dye the color of my natural hair color to hide it.

Maybe I do have hard water and just neve realized it. I have only been using my Kenra Clarifying chelating shampoo because of how well my hair responded to it. No wonder!

 

[baglady215]

I used to use a moisturizing shampoo, but now I don't as much. I just deep condition.

But, that is because the one I use is mild. The Kenra Clarifying chelating is very mild.

But I use a silicone and oil lotion on my hair everyday. I need that kind of shampoo to really clean my hair. I only use it for one rinse, so it may not even be "fully" clarifying because my hair is NEVER stripped. When I don't use the Kenra is when I notice that my hair just does not cooperate.

I used the Joico Chelating treatment and my hair felt really hard after rinsing it out. My hair never feels like that after the Kenra Clarifying Chelating shampoo.

According to Kenra, it is safe for daily use actually. Being relaxed, I think I am fine using it just 2 days a week.

Thank you! I think I am going to try the Kenra and incorporate it once a week or every two weeks (whenever I do my protein). Thanks again!

 

[baglady215]

I think it was mentioned in the original post, but chelating poo's are often used as precursors to chemical services like relaxing and coloring b/c of the deep levels at which they work on the hair shaft. They go in and undo the bonding of mineral deposits and free up the inner bonds within the hair so that these services will take better.

I'm wondering if that's why my relaxers have not been processing correctly...

 

[scorpian]

i postedthis under another thread but I had to post it here too because this thread was very helpful to me

Using Purified Water to rinse shampoo and cond from my hair.

I bought Sally's ION hard water poo and cond and rinsed with purified water my hair has never been this soft when it's wet in my life!!!
Who knew something as simple as water could make such a big difference.
I have bought product after product hoping for a change for the better in my hair when all this time I should've tried using a diff source of water!!

Thanks LHCF

 

[HoneyDew]

I think I am going to try purified water for my skin and hair.

I was thinking back and my problems with my dry skin and hair problems started when I mived into the house I am in now in 1998.

I wonder something is going on in my community that would cause the water to be hard because according to the maps, MD has soft water.

But, I went to Mississippi last year for a week to visit family and my skin loved the water there.

I am going to get some purified water today and start trying it.