Steaming & damp to dry flat ironning. [PICTURES]

[Bene]

Bubbles formed within hair as a result of water boiling within the cortex


This, my friends, is called bubble hair. It is caused when the water in the hair boils, and tiny bubbles of steam then form inside the softened hair shaft. The hair is thereby weakened, and may break altogether.

These operate somewhere between 120 and 180 °C, roughly speaking. Water boils at 100 °C. If a hot curling iron is put on to wet hair, it boils the water inside the hair. The boiling water softens the keratin of the cortex; then the steam from the boiling water expands and forms tiny bubbles inside the hair. Eventually the hair breaks off, either at or somewhere near a bubble. And it is always, always associated with the use of heated appliances on damp hair.

Source


So with that being said, have any of you experienced damage from steaming or damp to dry flat ironing? Blow drying is obvious. What about maxiglide?

I hear that water just "evaporates" when you do damp to dry flat ironing but in order for it to just evaporate, the water is BOILED.

Even with the top flatirons in the industry, how can the flatiron use steam or flat iron damp to dry without boiling & damaging the hair? Can someone explain this also?

I stopped flat ironing soaking wet hair because I'd seen this information somewhere else. I'm glad you posted this, I hope at least one other person will learn something

You know what kills me? It's that I knew this stuff, about water boiling at a 100 degrees Celsius, but I must've had the biggest brain farts known to man for not connecting it to hair care. I don't care what the flat iron makers claim, it's STILL boiling water inside of the shaft. For that reason alone, I don't flat iron wet hair and I make sure to have some sort of protection for the outside.

 

[bravenewgirl87]

Well first off, in terms of blow drying my hair took off pre LHCF when I let my hair dry at least 80 percent before blow drying.

As far as wet to dry flat ironing, my hair was breaking left and right as a result. My hair looked very smooth, but felt "off", almost like cheap BSS hair lol

This is the thread from when I did the damp to dry http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=339015

and this is me eating my words http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=341581

Don't do it!

I'm not surprised by your cautionary tale. Wet-to-dry flat iron is the ultimate hair no-no.

 

[Fine 4s]

yeah the same can happen with blowdyring, hooded dryer used too hot as well.

alot of people don't know about this good post.

and I guess that's why they say to let the hair airdry to 80-90% before using wet to dry flat irons, but you know folks be using it on wet hair.

I don't own a wet to dry iron because i'm a bit weary of them, but like anything you have to follow instructions because they do say get rid of the moisture before using, i'm sure they say this because of the boiling of the hair if used on wet tresses.

I think most hair damage comes from lack of paying attention to instructions, and if you read the instructions on using a tool following them properly.

And maybe that's why they say to let the hair cool off before detangling, manipulating or styling after a DC with heat or steam.

 

[Nonie]

her hair is thin to, i want thick and long, like dlewis

You find her hair thin? Really? This hair is thin?
I don't. She has fine strands but they are no way few as to be called thin. What's more her press is uber silky so of course it's bound to be less puffy than a press that doesn't get this silky. Also Iris applies a lot of oil to her hair which is bound to make it stick and appear more compact than hair that isn't slicked down with a lot of oil.

DLewis hair does look thicker, but it could be that she has thicker strands. Also I don't think she applies as much oil to her hair as Iris. Iris oil rinses and then applies oil to protect her hair. Probably explains why her hair is thriving so. And her hair is thick from roots to ends...unlike some people who hold onto skinny ends. Obviously this bubble hair thing doesn't seem to affect Iris coz I don't see her hair breaking all over the place. And we are talking about a lady who has been through a lot with her hair. She didn't always have hair this lush. But look how far she's come. Her methods must work for her, including this wet-to-dry thing.

I honestly think technique has a lot to do with it. I also think hair porosity comes into play.

ETA: I have another question...since bubbles come from a liquid evaporating and turning into vapor, what does that say of products with a lower boiling point? I mean, so many people use oils on their hair before pressing them. Oils that could be penetrating oils meaning they enter the hair shaft. So how can one be sure they aren't causing bubbles with that too? Seems to me that the safest thing is just to avoid heat at all costs, if we're going to worry about bubbles. Coz anything can expand and create a bubble...even air.

 

[Nonie]

BTW, I found this info on the Natural Haven's blog about heat temps:
http://thenaturalhaven.blogspot.com/2009/05/straightening-factshow-hot-is-too-hot.html

Thanks for that link. Interesting read. I just have one question:

Stage 3: Between 215 and 235 degrees C ( 419-455F)
The keratin in hair has a natural twist to it knows as an alpha helix (α-helix). This twist is present in all keratin, whether straight hair or curly hair. At this stage the helices of the hair protein melt (not reversible).

IDK...:scratchch If the helices of hair protein melt, does that mean hair won't revert? Or what does hair look like when its helices melt? I'm just wondering coz the heat I use on my hair has been around the higher end of that "dangerous spectrum" (446 degrees F) and in fact, I've done that for years w/o a protectant. I only recently started using protectants. So how can one tell when the helices of hair protein melt? Does that mean no reversion?

 

[Fine 4s]

Thanks for that link. Interesting read. I just have one question:



IDK...:scratchch If the helices of hair protein melt, does that mean hair won't revert? Or what does hair look like when its helices melt? I'm just wondering coz the heat I use on my hair has been around the higher end of that "dangerous spectrum" (446 degrees F) and in fact, I've done that for years w/o a protectant. I only recently started using protectants. So how can one tell when the helices of hair protein melt? Does that mean no reversion?

You got super strong helices

 

[Nonie]

You got super strong helices

No seriously, is lack of reversion the way to tell if helices are melted? Or is there another way to tell? I'm asking coz I don't know. Anyone?

 

[vkb247]

This is kinda off topic but some of the ladies over at BHM have started wet to dry flat ironing their hair with



wait for it......








foil. Seriously they are wrapping it around the flat iron and then using it. They say it makes the hair really silky and smooth and mimics a wet to dry iron because they have aluminum plates. They included some links in their threads to more info including instruction for doing it at the crown and glory method website.

None of them have any damage. At least not yet.

 

[Nonie]

This is kinda off topic but some of the ladies over at BHM have started wet to dry flat ironing their hair with



wait for it......








foil. Seriously they are wrapping it around the flat iron and then using it. They say it makes the hair really silky and smooth and mimics a wet to dry iron because they have aluminum plates. They included some links in their threads to more info including instruction for doing it at the crown and glory method website.

None of them have any damage. At least not yet.

Not sure I get how that mimics a wet-to-dry flat iron. WTD flat irons have vents for steam to escape...

So how does just adding aluminum foil mimic this^? Can anyone 'splain?

 

[catgurl]

Does that mean no reversion?

I'm not a scientist but I assumed that if the helices melt then you have permanently changed the structure of your hair, therefore no reversion. However, the difference may not be bone straight vs. kinky/coily. It may be that your hair after heat damage goes wavy whereas before it would go curly/coily.

So maybe strong helices are your secret power, a la Heroes!:creatures

 

[Trini_Chutney]

This is an excellent thread. Thank you ladies

 

[s_terry]

You girls think too much.......and I swear it's a wonderful thing.....I don't know what it is, but I feel so proud when I see such well thought out post....not that I would expect any less of course!


On topic. I have a maxiglide, and I tried the steam feature and it sizzled. Not too long after I had a head full of split ends. I stopped using both the steam and the fine-toothed attachement, well just because it didn't seem "right". Now that I think of it, I don't think I have had the level of split ends that I had when I used those features since.

To think that steam is different than water is a huge misconception. If you hold steam to a glass what happens? It get's wet... water droplets/molecules.To attempt to differentiate would be folly. Now, the level of "saturation" might make a difference. As someone mentioned how long are you giving it the old steam shot.

With the hair steamers, maybe this argument would give play as to of whether to use a plastic cap or not? I am also sure the temperature at which the steamer is set to plays a part as well.

 

[Soliel185]

I've given myself "bubble hair" in the past flat ironing damp hair.

My hair wasn't damp with straight water, but with product. I got super sleek hair, and I felt that it "sealed the ends" so it hid my splits, but I also got a lot of mid shaft splits inches up from my ends that ended up popped off, breaking, and looking genuinely horrific.

Oils are also very dangerous, but unless I'm mistaken, most of the oils used on hair have higher 'smoking points' than water so it takes MORE heat before they'll boil, or get so hot that they start "cooking". Coconut oil has a high smoke point (from what I've read) which was the reasoning why it was used by some while flat ironing or blow drying. Oils conduct heat, which is part of the reason why their use gives such a sleek press result, but it also means that it will take LESS heat to get your hair straight. If you don't lower the temperature (vs what you would use sans oil for example) you're running the risk of burning the oil and your hair.

I think steam applied directly to the hair could be bad. To me it's the difference between a blow dryer, vs a hooded dryer. The blow dryer is much closer to your hair, and focused on one area at a times WHILE the hair is being manipulated so it's more likely to cause damage. Hair and skin are made of the same basic stuff - the steam room is super beneficial for skin condition, elasticity, and moisture levels so it stands to reason that it could do the same for your hair. I think steamers/steam rooms heat the hair more gradually, so the cuticles slowly open and that's why they're so great for DC's. It probably also helps that the source of the heat is not touching or directly in contact with your hair/skin.

 

[catgurl]

Oils conduct heat, which is part of the reason why their use gives such a sleek press result, but it also means that it will take LESS heat to get your hair straight. If you don't lower the temperature (vs what you would use sans oil for example) you're running the risk of burning the oil and your hair.

I think steamers/steam rooms heat the hair more gradually, so the cuticles slowly open and that's why they're so great for DC's.

Thank you for your info re: oil and pressing! This makes a lot of sense and I will try using my EVCO for my next blowout.

I am also a big fan of steam rooms for my skin. Although I don't have a professional steamer for my hair, I do often do a steam DC by soaking in a hot bath. Double the pleasure!

This thread is helping me keep my resolve for no heat until May. And I just got my extra wide curlformers hurrah!

 

[Jazala]

Isn't this the reason why it's important to buy hair appliances with ionic technology? As I understand it, the negative ions break down the water molecules. This is safer for the hair as they are less likely to cause the bubble burst you described.

 

[butterfly_wings]

I tried this, Yes I heard a poping sound but my hair came out lovley, really soft and straight. I don't see a problem with this apart from the steam buring my scalp!

Haven't tried it again though

 

[Nonie]

Oils are also very dangerous, but unless I'm mistaken, most of the oils used on hair have higher 'smoking points' than water so it takes MORE heat before they'll boil, or get so hot that they start "cooking". Coconut oil has a high smoke point (from what I've read) which was the reasoning why it was used by some while flat ironing or blow drying. Oils conduct heat, which is part of the reason why their use gives such a sleek press result, but it also means that it will take LESS heat to get your hair straight. If you don't lower the temperature (vs what you would use sans oil for example) you're running the risk of burning the oil and your hair.

It is true, oils probably have a higher boiling point than water, but they also heat up way faster than water, so it takes LESS heat before they boil since how hot they get depends on how much heat they absorb before they respond in temperature increase. In other words, it all depends on their heat capacity (the amount of heat needed to raise temperature by one degree), and to compare them fairly, scientists have come up with numbers that show how much heat must be applied to a kilogram of a substance for its temperature to change by one degree. They call it Specific Heat Capacity.

Water has a higher specific heat capacity (4.19 KJ/kg K) than say Olive Oil or veggie oil (1.67 KJ/kg K). What that means is that it takes more heat to raise the temperature of one kilogram of water by one degree than it does to raise the temperature of one kilo of oil. In other words, if you were to heat oil and water for say a minute, the oil would increase in temperature almost 3 times faster that water, so EVOO would be approaching its BP of 300 degrees C almost by the time the water started to boil at a mere 100 degrees C.

Think about that... It doesn't take much to turn water on hair to vapor...so imagine oil would be 3 times as hot!!!... So yes, hence the sleek results, but also the risk of non-reversion is like WOAH!

If speed of heat transfer is part of the reason for bubble hair, then seems to me oils, especially penetrating ones, would be most likely to cause this due to how fast they heat up, n'est-ce pas?

Incidentally, like Soleil, my last WTD press was done with a heat protectant as my "liquid". Like Soleil, I suspect it made a huge difference. And I particularly feel that way because for the first time in all my years of pressing/flat ironing, not once did I smell burnt protein. Also I find it odd that the product meant for protecting your hair against damage would clearly state:

"For Ultra-Straightening, Spray On Small Sections of Dried Hair Immediately Before Using A Flat Iron'"

unless they'd tested it to ensure it'd not cause damage. Not that companies haven't screwed up before...but that is exactly what I did and I felt secure doing it. And when my hair had no burnt smell and reverted fully and again no burnt smell when wet, I was CERTAIN for the first time that I'd had a safe press/flat iron experience and I lost all fear of heat...till you party poopers started talking 'bout bubbles... Gotta rain on someone's parade huh?

I'd love to hear what those who discovered bubble hair theory would say about water when mixed with other products...after all heat protectants like John Frieda Heat Defeat do have water in them...and should be applied to dry hair (making it wet) before flat ironing. Is that any safer? Worse? Are Soleil and I right in feeling "safe" when we didn't WTD with just water but actually had something else in the mix?

 

[butterfly_wings]

^^Intresting what heat protectors do you recommend?? I use aphogee keratin and green tea restructizer

 

[Nonie]

^^Intresting what heat protectors do you recommend?? I use aphogee keratin and green tea restructizer

I started my heat prep right after washing my hair. I had no idea there was such a thing as a thermal protection conditioner, but because I wanted to be very meticulous, I happened to spy the CHI line at CVS and started reading the bottles. CHI Infra Treatment Thermal Protective Treatment caught my attention. I had heard CHI products were good for heat styling so since I didn't see any other thermal protective treatment that was a conditioner, I got that. I had fully detangled my hair and I applied it as carefully as you apply relaxer working on narrow sections and combing through with a fine tooth comb to make sure every strand was well coated.

After a few minutes, I rinsed off and then immediately finger parted the dripping wet hair in the shower and plaited it in big plaits to stop it from tangling in that shrunken state.

Still dripping wet, I would undo a braid and finger part a narrower section and install a Curlformer, doing that till all my hair was in Curlformers. The idea was to stretch my hair without heat. I let it completely dry in them and it looked like this when I took the Curlformers out:

I would then take each Curlformer section and spray it well with John Frieda Frizz-Ease Heat Defeat Protective Styling Spray to coat each strand before doing a wet-to-dry press with my Babyliss Pro Ceramic flat iron. I was anal in ensuring every inch of my hair was well coated before pressing. And to my pleasure, as I pressed, there was no smell of burning hair. Only one pass was necessary to dry the hair and give it a blow-dried look:

Did I mention there was no smell of hair burning? <-- A first for this stage in my pressing!

Once every section was done (and I worked on a section at a time) I started from the back again parting out a very narrow section of my hair and coating it very well with John Frieda Frizz-Ease Serum Thermal Protection Formula then passing the flat iron over it once to seal, before moving to the next section and repeating. (Using JF serums to seal my press is something I've done for years just because JF was the first serum I ever knew of and I still think they are their years "in the business" makes them pretty good at what they do. So I was thrilled to find they have a protective serum!). As before, making sure my strands were fully coated was a main focus. That one pass of the iron over JF serumed hair gave these results:

Again, no smell of hair burning! <---Another first for this stage!

Three days later, my hair was still soft as if moisturized and not a hint of reversion. I wanted to braid my hair and I always braid shrunken hair so I put it into plaits ready for shampooing after only three days. (I had to take advantage of the long weekend we had then, hence the ). And still no smell of burnt hair on my scarf or in my hair at all!! This was just pre-shampoo:

Reversion started as soon as shampoo touched it much to my glee , and guess what, no smell of burnt hair when it got wet either. All I could smell was the shampoo then conditioner:

And when I was done washing my hair, I got the coilies I'm used to back:

 

[Polyesterdiva]

Oh man! This thread hits close home!

I had a HEAD FULL of bubble hair after using my friends's Wet2Straight Remington Piece of **** Flat Iron. She had thick, non relaxed hair and it was damaged from this so I dont know what I was doing using it on my relaxed hair (and wet hair at that).

I used it on damp hair, on setting 35 or something (whatever that means). My hair was ruined for years. When I pulled my come through it when it was wet it stretched and streched into infinity and broke off, even after deep conditioning with protein. It was like I melted it. I should've BCed but I didn't have the guts, so I just grew it out (see my signature) and didn't gain more than inch of length for a years! I could literally see the bubbles in my hair!

Don't EVER put high heat on wet hair...I even include hot blow dryers in this just because I'm paranoid!!! :-D

 

[butterfly_wings]

Thanks Nonie, thats so detailed, so just be sure to cover eavery strand with heat protectant, yeah I don't do this but I'm going to now, thanks

 

[Ivonnovi]

Bumping, ....."What the Helices?" I'm stilll confused but it's late, I've had a long day, and I'm tired as heck.

Happy Holidays to you all, and I've gotta sleep on all this knowledge.

 

[Nonie]

^^LOL IIRC, we all agreed bubble hair is not fiction but happens. What I got from the discussion is a suspicion that heat protectants might help prevent it even when they are "wet", if applied to dry hair...perhaps because they don't penetrate the strands but sit on top(?). I also felt that oils are as bad as water in that if they penetrate strands, they can boil inside the strand and cause bubble hair--especially coz oils heat up faster than water. One thing that came to mind is: if bubble hair is caused by heating up wet hair, doesn't that mean that blow drying or DCing hair with heat could also cause water to boil inside the hair, and hence bubble hair?

I guess bottom line is, if in doubt, don't steam or damp-to-dry flatiron your hair. They may work for some but not for others.

 

[Honey Bee]

This is kinda off topic but some of the ladies over at BHM have started wet to dry flat ironing their hair with



wait for it......








foil. Seriously they are wrapping it around the flat iron and then using it. They say it makes the hair really silky and smooth and mimics a wet to dry iron because they have aluminum plates. They included some links in their threads to more info including instruction for doing it at the crown and glory method website.

None of them have any damage. At least not yet.

I'm curious to know how this turned out. Any updates?

 

[Ivonnovi]

^^LOL IIRC, we all agreed bubble hair is not fiction but happens. What I got from the discussion is a suspicion that heat protectants might help prevent it even when they are "wet", if applied to dry hair...perhaps because they don't penetrate the strands but sit on top(?). I also felt that oils are as bad as water in that if they penetrate strands, they can boil inside the strand and cause bubble hair--especially coz oils heat up faster than water. One thing that came to mind is: if bubble hair is caused by heating up wet hair, doesn't that mean that blow drying or DCing hair with heat could also cause water to boil inside the hair, and hence bubble hair?

I guess bottom line is, if in doubt, don't steam or damp-to-dry flatiron your hair. They may work for some but not for others.

There was a thread on here some time ago warning of the danger of developing "Bubbles" in the hair if you did not properly blowdry. I remember it because that's when I STOPPED blow-drying my wet hair, and started letting my hair air-dry as much as possible. I acknowledged the fact that I sucked a blowdying, I stopped, and I was able to maintain much more hairgrowth when I did.