The View Talking About Good Hair

[FluffyRed]

wow, take out historical context?

can we take that out of the education debate, acievement gaps, imprisonment rates, crime, hayell take it out of employment and pay rates and hiring and promotion. Just get rid of civil rights and EEOC altogether.

how do you explain *anything* while ignoring it's historical context?

 

[Arian]

I feel like I'm in the middle of The Hair Wars or something, ya'll.....

Come on...why is there so much hostility in this thread?? At the end of the day, aren't we all the same thing--Beautiful Black Women in search of better hair practices, whether it is relaxed or natural? I've only been on the forum a few weeks and I've seen some extraordinary hair on both ends of the spectrum....

Whites (both men and women) already have this negative (and very incorrect) view that Black women love confrontation (trust me, I've heard this before)....let's continue to prove them wrong...

This is me trying to insert some peace here...

 

[MrJohnsonsRib]

I remember watching ANTM when that one girl, Michelle, had to go platinum blonde and she was shaking with tears running down her face because of the pain.

I didn't know that hurt them!!Why,what's in that stuff? Man I never knew that! I never heard of that. For me, I didn't really care to delve deep into the whole hair color stripping process, maybe because I don't wanna be a blonde and if I do I'll get a good weaving put in....that's crazy!

 

[almond eyes]

These forks were not the modern forks that we used today for eating.

My mother sometimes get annoyed with me because she says that when one uses the American experience to explain everything in the world, you will always hit a hurdle. Africans were the innovators of many things before the 'white' man came along. Now, yes perhaps in the Americas the reasons for black people straightening their hair was about assimulating into the dominate culture. However, in Africa colonialism did not effect Africans mentality about their hair it affected other issues, the issue of the way Africans wear their hair today is about the westernisation of the media into the continent. For example, I know many people claim that Africans in West Africa want to be white so they bleach their skin, but in Senegal for example the women say they aren't trying to be white, they want to look like fulas or puels who have complexions between brown and honey coloured skin.

In Japan for example, just off topic white skin was always prized even before the white man came, the women were wearing that white powder makeup.

So, it's not all the white man (dominate power), some is us, some is fashion. I wish life could be so narrowly construed.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[ccd]

but he has not said it once...

Yup...as a matter of fact he made a rude comment to Whoopi...oh nobody wants That....speaking to her about her hair......

You know what, we can argue all day about why we relax our hair, I know some of us didn't have the conscious mind to say...Oh if I relax my hair, I am taking away from my blackness......if you were raised between the 60's,70's.... I don't know too many parents who were explaining to their girls.....no you may not want to relax because you will be trying to emulate white folks


I know in my house......they didn't want you to "ruin your hair".... I knew that was a huge objection...however, maintaining My Hair.....I'm only speaking for mine....I recall it took a lot of time, effort and work...... Now to see a relaxer ( at the time...13 yrs of age) I thought it would take less time, it would be easier.... I cried and got my way with it..... Now....I know better....

It's not easier, it takes work and effort ......any type of hair take work.....unless you are bald/low cut etc.....

At this point in my life I can say.....it is convenient to me, I've relaxed since my teens, do I want to learn all new techniques at this point, NO....I can wear my hair with and without texture.....I love it! And it's allllll mine!!!


As side from it being a convenience to me.....All the other things/ reasons/ issues that revolve around black women and our hair....it exists, it may or may not have an impact on what I do....

I just have my own desires and ideas of what I'd like to look like and I create my reality; because I can....to Hell with Chris Rock!

BTW.... Any one else annoyed at Malak Rock rocking the braids? That seems so phony to me cause she doesn't normally wear her hair like that.......

 

[SmartyPants]

SOLUTION: Teach our daughters to LOVE the hair that grows out of their heads. SHow them how to take care of it. Try to spread good hair practices to those around us. Politely call out people who use charged terms such as "good hair" or "a better grade of hair". Always remebering that we must be the change that we wish to see in the world.

I intend to teach my daughters to wear their hair however they damn well please--be that straight or curly! Just like I don't feel we should be limited to straight styles, I also don't think we should be limited to nappy styles just to fit some pro-black mold. It's a hairstyling choice--NOT LIFE!

 

[BroadstreetBully]

To #1: Does the following statement make sense: History has a lot to do with why we BEGAN to internalize the idea that LS equals better and prettier and therefore engaged in the divisive rhetoric and behavior regarding LS and DS blacks. It has nothing to do with why we CONTINUE to perseverate on LS and DS.rolleyes

Read the bolded twice please.

Hair can be changed, it is meant to be styled, cut, colored, etc. Skin cannot be changed. We are not speaking of skin color preference that places value upon a trait only a few in our community are born with, we're talking about how someone styles their hair. History DOES have something to do with why blacks prefer looser hair textures. However, most black women today do not put that much thought into why they relax their hair. A black woman today should be able to decide what texture, color, and length she wants her hair without being prisoner to the past. I guess groups that have no history of being slaves are the only groups free to change their appearance as they please.

 

[SmartyPants]

Hair can be changed, it is meant to be styled, cut, colored, etc. Skin cannot be changed. We are not speaking of skin color preference that places value upon a trait only a few in our community are born with, we're talking about how someone styles their hair. History DOES have something to do with why blacks prefer looser hair textures. However, most black women today do not put that much thought into why they relax their hair. A black woman today should be able to decide what texture, color, and length she wants her hair without being prisoner to the past. I guess groups that have no history of being slaves are the only groups free to change their appearance as they please.

Which, in turn, is putting a different sort of shackles on us!

 

[MrJohnsonsRib]

Don't know, but preaching to the choir on the hair board surely isn't the answer, I've come to discover.

I think the newfound publicity w/ the Chris Rock movie, Tyra, Oprah, the View is a step in the right direction.

Yeah, baby steps. We are taking baby steps. It is like preaching t the choir cause we all on LHCF have ont thing in common- we actually care about our hair. That's what the focus is. Not relaxed, straight,kinky or curly or locked...it's the fact that it's our hair and we finally decided to act like it. Just take all of your passion I say and spread the Good News of Hair to others. We're all in this together as Nikos Cousins.

 

[Maracujá]

I just finished watching the show online and I got more questions than answers.

 

[AllAboutMoi]

One woman can not speak for all black women.

 

[jennboo]

Hair can be changed, it is meant to be styled, cut, colored, etc. Skin cannot be changed. We are not speaking of skin color preference that places value upon a trait only a few in our community are born with, we're talking about how someone styles their hair. History DOES have something to do with why blacks prefer looser hair textures. However, most black women today do not put that much thought into why they relax their hair. A black woman today should be able to decide what texture, color, and length she wants her hair without being prisoner to the past. I guess groups that have no history of being slaves are the only groups free to change their appearance as they please.

The poster stated that although history influenced blacks' reasons for relaxing way back when, it has NO influence today, NONE, on why still a large majority of black women still relax. Does that really make sense to you?

I made that parallel to colorism to make the point that this present-day issue of hair relaxing, the reason we continue to do it, is influenced by what has happened to blacks historically....In the same way that colorism, and why we continue to discuss this and have a preference for lighter skin and look down on black skin, is influenced by what happened to blacks historically.

My question is, why is it no longer necessary to consider the historical context for what we continue to do to our hair, but the historical context is crucial and necessary to consider for everything else that blacks lament about today? Doesn’t make sense to me. Ya can't have it both ways.

Bolded: I def. agree with you that black women don't put much thought into why they relax their hair and i can understand why this is. Years of indoctrination, adhering to traditions(ie. "we've always done this"), complacency, and conformity will have anybody doing the okey-doke. Sometimes we do things, without really thinking about why we do them because it is something that has always been done and has become commonplace, tradition. The chemicalizing hair for blacks is so ingrained that we don't even know that it's a big slap in the face to who we are really. Or maybe we do but don’t care, that’s fine too.

In regards to your other statements...black women today are certainly able to decide what texture, color, and length she wants her hair, blacks are free to change their appearance as they please! this isn't a global dictatorship, lol. But the past is relevant as to why droves of black women continue to relax their hair, whether folks want to admit to it or not is a different story. It is what it is, doesn’t make folks horrible people. There are certain posters here who continually relax their hair (that’s fine), but they aren’t so emotionally charged and defensive that they discount the evidence as to why loads of blacks continue to have a bias toward a beauty that is not their own.

 

[CoilyFields]

I intend to teach my daughters to wear their hair however they damn well please--be that straight or curly! Just like I don't feel we should be limited to straight styles, I also don't think we should be limited to nappy styles just to fit some pro-black mold. It's a hairstyling choice--NOT LIFE!

SOLUTION: Teach our daughters to LOVE the hair that grows out of their heads.

However you choose to do that is your business.

The majority of us (not all) were given relaxers as a SOLUTION to our hair "problems" or because we wanted it as a "right of passage into womanhood". We get to adulthood knowing NOTHING about our natural hair or even viewing it as a viable option. And we end up having feelings ranging from indifference to hate for it. All I said was to teach our daughters to LOVE their natural hair.

Is it possible for a relaxed mother to teach her relaxed/natural daughter to love her natural hair? It's possible...but beware the catch 22...girls want to be like mom.

Is it possible to love (not be indifferent to) your natural hair even if you wear it relaxed, straight, weaved, wigged, or braided? Yes...but you have to be intentional about it because in this culture it does not come naturally. (no pun intended)

The point is we must be proactive in changing the climate of unacceptance that surrounds natural hair in our own communities. And the place to start is in our own homes.

 

[carameldelight87]

To #1: Does the following statement make sense: History has a lot to do with why we BEGAN to internalize the idea that LS equals better and prettier and therefore engaged in the divisive rhetoric and behavior regarding LS and DS blacks. It has nothing to do with why we CONTINUE to perseverate on LS and DS.rolleyes

Read the bolded twice please.

To #2: If you need more examples of how white folks (the dominant race) imposed their ideals upon Africans and how this has had a long standing impact on how we view ourselves (including the idea that whiter is better and straighter texture is more desirable) i urge you to visit your nearest library. If that is too much just see post #286 for a briefing. If "my historical context" isn't relevant for this discussion than why is it relevant for another? Is it relevant for the colorism/ls ds debate? Is it relevant for why brown blacks in this country do not wield the power that whites do? Is it relevant to why the civil rights movement took place? Historical context, historical legacy is everything.

To #3: LOL. I actually couldn't even believe you posed this as a valid argument but okay. Let me get this straight. You are saying that white women are more likely mimicking black women by straightening their hair because blacks began to relax their hair before the straight "hairstyle" on whites was considered popular? Is that what you are saying?

I can see that you take literally my phrase "straight hair" to be type 1 stick straight hair. This makes sense to assume, and it is my fault that i did not clarify what I meant by straight hair within this discussion. Perhaps a better term to use would be "Straighter Hair" in reference to the hair type that MOST blacks possess. Straighter hair means: Any straight or loosely textured hair type that can not be defined as or mistaken for kinky/coily/nappy/cottony/or tightly curled. Basically, "Good Hair".

No, ur first sentence does not make sense because u've replaced a practice with a belief or a theory. There's a difference between having an opinion on a group of people and choosing to relax ur hair. Therefore the sentence structure wouldn't apply properly. How about u compare apples and apples next time rather than misrepresenting my statement in an effort to make it easier to attack...

"Historical context" is irrelevant because as I stated earlier we're not talking about a set of beliefs. We're talking about a set of practices. We live in a country of tradition, that's been passed on to us from those before us. We follow these traditions not because we agree with why they began but because until we research for ourselves whether or not this tradition is actually for u we won't see what's wrong.

Are u THAT ignorant of white culture that u didn't notice the similarities throughout ur beloved "history"? Please do your research. White people have been mimicking Black folks for a LONG time. From Bo Derek and those cornrows to tans, lip injections, etc. It's not new. It goes back to the slave master's lust and affairs with his Black female slaves and the jealousy that stemmed from it. But u probably wouldn't know that since it's not always highlighted in ur "historical context"...

 

[Kranbery]

Pressing? with metal forks? That's never worked on my hair, but...

If this is before the yt man, how did you become aware of this?

Just asking.

Curiosity. Research. Discovery by trying things out, which is how many things are figured out/ founded. Why do you assume they had to be shown/taught something to become aware of it?

 

[CoilyFields]

Bolded: I def. agree with you that black women don't put much thought into why they relax their hair and i can understand why this is. Years of indoctrination, adhering to traditions(ie. "we've always done this"), complacency, and conformity will have anybody doing the okey-doke. Sometimes we do things, without really thinking about why we do them because it is something that has always been done and has become commonplace, tradition. The chemicalizing hair for blacks is so ingrained that we don't even know that it's a big slap in the face to who we are really. Or maybe we do but don’t care, that’s fine too.


This is the TRUTH! I know i didnt think about it at all when i was relaxed and it really wasnt until i went natural (and stopped straightening it) that I realized how I really saw my hair. The only reason I was happy to see new growth was cause it meant my hair was growing...otherwise it had to GO! I wanted my hair straight and swangin cause that was pretty and napps were not. And it wasn't that I ever even SAID this aloud...but it showed in the choices I made and my assumption that I needed a relaxer to manage my hair. The tone where I grew up surrounding kinky hair was always either indifferent or negative...never loving. And that ENMITY is based on a historical context.

 

[FluffyRed]

But the past is relevant as to why droves of black women continue to relax their hair, whether folks want to admit to it or not is a different story. It is what it is, doesn’t make folks horrible people. There are certain posters here who continually relax their hair (that’s fine), but they aren’t so emotionally charged and defensive that they discount the evidence as to why loads of blacks continue to have a bias toward a beauty that is not their own.

And that's it in a nutshell.

You've made the point well.

MSA mentioned in the past having gone on and on in an argument with someone who turned out to be a middle schooler. So be careful. Some people are not aware when it's time to concede a point. Just saying

But yeah, Relaxers are "just a style choice," without historical context when

• a black (!) man may not like me without one
• other people ridicule my hair without one
• Kids make fun of me without one
• I'm scared to go on a job interview without one
• I may not be accepted at a corporate job if I do a BC

Sh'mon now. Even if I am extremely resistant to those values, many people around me probably are not, so when I finally do relax, it is in part a concession to those values.

 

[carameldelight87]

wow, take out historical context?

can we take that out of the education debate, acievement gaps, imprisonment rates, crime, hayell take it out of employment and pay rates and hiring and promotion. Just get rid of civil rights and EEOC altogether.

how do you explain *anything* while ignoring it's historical context?

U should look up the "fallacies of logic" and pay attention to the Fallacy of Division.

Just because something is true of one subject, it doesn't make it true for all others. And this "emotional" appeal you're making is quite elementary. U've resulted to a 5 year old's "well why don't u just kill me, mom! Since u hate me so much that u won't let me get ice cream!"...u gotta do better, dear.

We're talking about an action that people commit on an individual basis. We're not talking about statistical gap at all. We're not talking about the history of discrimination at all.

WHY we began getting relaxers as a culture is completely unrelated to why we get them now. Point blank period.

 

[FluffyRed]

History DOES have something to do with why blacks prefer looser hair textures. However, most black women today do not put that much thought into why they relax their hair.

ITA. And this is not to attack those who have made that choice. Just acknowledging that influence. even without putting thought into it, the influence is there. It's in fairytales, movies, commercials, text books, music, tv shows, etc. And has been for decades. How could anyone expect to escape that influence?

 

[jennboo]

No, ur first sentence does not make sense because u've replaced a practice with a belief or a theory. There's a difference between having an opinion on a group of people and choosing to relax ur hair. Therefore the sentence structure wouldn't apply properly. How about u compare apples and apples next time rather than misrepresenting my statement in an effort to make it easier to attack...

"Historical context" is irrelevant because as I stated earlier we're not talking about a set of beliefs. We're talking about a set of practices. We live in a country of tradition, that's been passed on to us from those before us. We follow these traditions not because we agree with why they began but because until we research for ourselves whether or not this tradition is actually for u we won't see what's wrong.

Are u THAT ignorant of white culture that u didn't notice the similarities throughout ur beloved "history"? Please do your research. White people have been mimicking Black folks for a LONG time. From Bo Derek and those cornrows to tans, lip injections, etc. It's not new. It goes back to the slave master's lust and affairs with his Black female slaves and the jealousy that stemmed from it. But u probably wouldn't know that since it's not always highlighted in ur "historical context"...

So you are saying that historical context is only relevant when we are discussing a set of beliefs but not when we are discussing practices? Is that what you are saying? I hope i misunderstood that.

Alright, so then the practice of segregation based on race, the practice of skin bleaching, the practice of eye-lid surgery for asians, the practice of considering a persons race or gender to promote equal opportunity and diversity in the workplce or in education (affirmative action), etc. are all not at all influenced by what has happened historically? LOL.

See post # 312 for the reasoning behind my parallel between hair relaxing and colorism.

@ bolded: You mention tradition as the reason we continue to engage in certain practices. Whether they are good for us to engage in or not, we still engage in them because we may not know any better and until we critically think about (and research) we will still be none the wiser. I completely agree with you !!!! . I'm not saying that folks are terrible for continuing to adhere to a practice that exalts the features of a dominant racial group and rejects/denigrates our own natural features, I'm just saying that history plays a huge part in why we are continuing to do this. You disagree and state that history has nothing to do with why we continue to relax our hair, this is what i disagree with.

And to the ignorant comment, i welcome it, since it is a sign that you have run out of intelligent, relevant commentary on the topic and thus need to resort to blatant insults . I'll bite anyway bc i'm having a really great time debating (using that word loosely) with you . Your assertion that white people have been mimicking black people for a long time is also irrelevant to this discussion. Nowhere in my posts did I declare the opposite. But since you bring up the ol' "well white folks do it too" argument, i'll address it.

White people getting tanned, getting lip/butt injections are of no relevance because there is no collective disdain for their own natural features or pervasive preferences for features that are endemic to black people: dark skin and highly textured (nappy) hair, due to centuries long oppression and deadening of their own cultural/racial identity. When that happens, then we can make the parallel between what whites do and what blacks do.

In sticking to the hair issue, when 80% of white folks begin to rush to apply a toxic chemical to their heads to achieve kinky hair (type 4 hair, what most blacks have) every 6 weeks and panic at the sight of straight wisps around their hairline, then we can talk.

 

[AfroKink]

Then how can it be explained that in many parts of Africa even before some Africans came in contact with the white man, women were pressing their hair with metal forks and were using natural products to soften their hair texture?.

Best,
Almond Eyes

Which parts/people of Africa exactly?

I know you answered in a subsequent post that they weren't making their hair bone straight, it was for ease of styling. I think it's different to press our your curls/kinks to have "flowing swanging hair" that hangs on your face, neck and shoulders than to press our your kinks to make it easier/ quicker to braid.

Curiosity. Research. Discovery by trying things out, which is how many things are figured out/ founded. Why do you assume they had to be shown/taught something to become aware of it?

I believe she was asking the poster how she herself came to know what the groups of Africans she speaks of where doing hundreds of years ago before they met white people. Basically she was asking her to site her source... at least that's what I got from it

Lys

 

[jennboo]

And that's it in a nutshell.

You've made the point well.

MSA mentioned in the past having gone on and on in an argument with someone who turned out to be a middle schooler. So be careful. Some people are not aware when it's time to concede a point. Just saying


But yeah, Relaxers are "just a style choice," without historical context when

• a black (!) man may not like me without one
• other people ridicule my hair without one
• Kids make fun of me without one
• I'm scared to go on a job interview without one
• I may not be accepted at a corporate job if I do a BC

Sh'mon now. Even if I am extremely resistant to those values, many people around me probably are not, so when I finally do relax, it is in part a concession to those values.

Bolded: true, I'll keep that in mind, LOL.

And i agree with the rest of your post too.

 

[Daughter]

White people have been mimicking Black folks for a LONG time. From Bo Derek and those cornrows to tans, lip injections, etc. It's not new. It goes back to the slave master's lust and affairs with his Black female slaves and the jealousy that stemmed from it. But u probably wouldn't know that since it's not always highlighted in ur "historical context"...

Some white people may be copying us and our trends, but I don't think they get ridicule from their peers for how the hair grows out of their heads; this is the crux of the matter - outside of Internet hair boards, how valued is natural type 4 hair by black people? I think perceptions are changing but we have a long ways to go.

 

[almond eyes]

Even though yes, there were many Europeans who intermingled with the indigenous populations in West Africa, my great-grandmother was in a village that was pretty much left intact even with colonialism. My mother tells me stories all the time of how it used to be in Sierra Leone when she was a small girl and how for example diamonds were like toys because they were all over the place. And she told me that they used forks, yes fork shaped tools. I don't know why it's so hard to believe, how do people think that Africans in Africa did their hair back in the day, they used combs, shea butter and did all kinds of hairstyles and this had nothing to do with the influence of the white man. I am not buying that black people are so imbued with a complex that we couldn't invent things to make out hair manageable.

However, yes Jennboo you make good points that history definitely dictates choices but not always the case. Two people can be doing the same thing for different reasons, for example I may wear a wig for cultural and religious reasons but another person even of the same race may be wearing a wig because of insecurities and a history of persecution. See same practises but different reasons.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[Mizz Diamonds]

Even though yes, there were many Europeans who intermingled with the indigenous populations in West Africa, my great-grandmother was in a village that was pretty much left intact even with colonialism. My mother tells me stories all the time of how it used to be in Sierra Leone when she was a small girl and how for example diamonds were like toys because they were all over the place. And she told me that they used forks, yes fork shaped tools. I don't know why it's so hard to believe, how do people think that Africans in Africa did their hair back in the day, they used combs, shea butter and did all kinds of hairstyles and this had nothing to do with the influence of the white man. I am not buying that black people are so imbued with a complex that we couldn't invent things to make out hair manageable.

However, yes Jennboo you make good points that history definitely dictates choices but not always the case. Two people can be doing the same thing for different reasons, for example I may wear a wig for cultural and religious reasons but another person even of the same race may be wearing a wig because of insecurities and a history of persecution. See same practises but different reasons.

Best,
Almond Eyes

yeah i heard of the using forked shaped tools/comb thing to press the hair I'm nigerian and my mother told i think there is a old picture of my mother's hair around the house somewhere and if I find it will post it but not promising anything

 

[Southernbella.]

I intend to teach my daughters to wear their hair however they damn well please--be that straight or curly! Just like I don't feel we should be limited to straight styles, I also don't think we should be limited to nappy styles just to fit some pro-black mold. It's a hairstyling choice--NOT LIFE!

Re: the bolded, it's not a choice if we are slapping relaxers on our young daughters' heads before they even hit puberty.

Choice begins with knowing your options. If natural hair is not an option, then you (general) have failed at teaching your daughters that they can choose whatever style they please.

I never got to choose. Most black girls never get to choose.

 

[jamaraa]

There's way too much faith in natural hair here, IMHO. I don't believe that natural hair is much of a sign of anything, tbh. Self-love, self-hate, is really about the mind, not the hair. Let's remember that in the late 60s-late 70s many Black folks had natural hair (tho many went to the salon to style their 'fros and braids), yet when the 80s rolled around, how many of those folks got curls and perms? Am I to think that all those folks loved themselves for 10 years and then decided to hate themselves once it hit 1980 or so? Nah, I'm not convinced. This is far too simplistic...natural hair vs relaxed as any real indicator of a person's sense of themselves. Frankly, it's yet another stereotype for Blacks to labor under.

Personally, I think too many Black women are looking to be valued by others before valuing themselves 1st. Besides, what does this "being valuing" supposed consist of, nobody ever specifies. It's interesting that these convos always go around racial issues, but hardly ever consider a feminist/womanist view. Did it ever occur to anyone that much of this has to do w/ trying to live up to male standards rather than or in addition to White ones? Why is the racial aspect of this so much more important than the gender aspect? Why should Blackness be the sole consideration for Black women. Being a woman is hardly unimporant in our lives, I'd guess.

I refuse to love myself as a Black and be dismissive of myself as a woman....they are one whole, indivisible.

 

[kblc06]

But European colonization has set the standard for what is "normal". This is what I think others are trying to get you to understand. White Europeans are a world minority (I believe there are more people with an "African" phenotype than Euro), yet Asians have eyelid surgery to remove the epicanthic fold unique to them, blacks and other curly haired ethnic groups use chemical straighteners to remove a characteristic unique to them, and Indians and all the aforementioned groups commonly use bleaching creams to lighten their complexions.

And yet Europeans are doing what to conform to the "normal" standard? Europeans seem to be the common denominator in all of this . Blue and grey eyes and blonde hair are the rarest phenotypical traits around, yet you don't see whites who possess these traits attempting to fit in by wearing brown contacts or dyeing their hair brown.

You seem to be the only one who understands and you gave a good example. Epicanthic folds are not "normal." Asians aren't trying to look "white" when they get eyelid creases. They are trying to look "normal" in that way they would fit in with what is the norm and that is rounded eyes without an epicanthic fold.

That is because what we are naturally isn't the norm. We aren't living amongst ourselves. We are living in a globalized society where you get a chance to see what is common and those things that are least common. Black people will fall into the least common group.

 

[BroadstreetBully]

And that's it in a nutshell.

You've made the point well.

MSA mentioned in the past having gone on and on in an argument with someone who turned out to be a middle schooler. So be careful. Some people are not aware when it's time to concede a point. Just saying

But yeah, Relaxers are "just a style choice," without historical context when

• a black (!) man may not like me without one
• other people ridicule my hair without one
• Kids make fun of me without one
• I'm scared to go on a job interview without one
• I may not be accepted at a corporate job if I do a BC

Sh'mon now. Even if I am extremely resistant to those values, many people around me probably are not, so when I finally do relax, it is in part a concession to those values.

You do realize that those attitudes exist on a grand scale with style choices that are not born from a negative historical context? Of course natural hair isn't at the point where it's widely accepted and seen as beautiful as straight hair today, but many other 'trends' and styling choices are treated the same way.

-I have white friends who were ridiculed for being too 'pale'
-White women with curly hair are encouraged to straighten their hair to attract men and succeed in the business world.

I do hope we make progress in accepting our natural hair as a styling choice on the same level as we accept straight hair, but even then black women will still continue to follow the fashion trends with hair like everyone else. Most of the sex symbols out there aren't rocking natural styles, so it hasn't been presented enough as a desirable option for most black women.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I guess groups that have no history of being slaves are the only groups free to change their appearance as they please.

Which, in turn, is putting a different sort of shackles on us!

Which bears the question, are we supposed to spend our lives trying to undo the past?

I've been natural before and for more than a quick minute at that. It gave me a different perspective on ethnic hair care, but I can't agree that it changed my world view let alone did anything to offset any historical injustices or right any cultural ills.

ETA: If every black woman in the U.S. went natural tomorrow, the not so new debate would be if those with a looser hair texture were legitimately nappy enough to be marginalized because of their nappyness. Then the great 'you always wear a twistout to perpetrate a looser texture' accusations and the circle continues.

Like I said, I've been on the other side of the road and everything that can be argued as a historical imperative to behavior can and will be.