UK School to Put Witchcraft & Druids on Religious Education Syllabus

Last night I placed the comments on 'ignore'. I had to... and then just pray for understanding.


I'll settle for just civility. One can ask and argue a point without stooping to calling people stupid and ignorant where beliefs diverge. At that point, I'd say that someone didn't truly have the information to argue the point or that the person became too emotional, resorting to insults. Either way, it's not necessary. :nono:
 
I'll settle for just civility. One can ask and argue a point without stooping to calling people stupid and ignorant where beliefs diverge.

At that point, I'd say that someone didn't truly have the information to argue the point or that the person became too emotional, resorting to insults. Either way, it's not necessary. :nono:

Clarify... please.
 
Titus 3:10-11

New International Version (NIV)

Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. You may be sure that such people are warped and sinful; they are self-condemned.

It's a forum, not an assembly.

I don't like the way she is conversing.
But, I had so many beliefs that were not scriptural that I like trying to understand what others are trying to say rather than assuming I'm right, she/he is wrong.
 
Absolutely not the same. Some people believe in one or the other who proclaim to be Christian.

I explained how the movie relates. How there's resistance about my statement from people who haven't seen the movie, I dunno.

ETA: There are a dozen blogs from Christians who support the movie....who actually watched it and have a valid opinion.

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Just because plenty of Christians support the movie that does not mean it's related to Christianity.
Ok, you think it's Christian because there is casting out demons, right?
On what name?
Christ?
And it's clearly said in the movie?
 
Clarify... please.


That we can talk about an issue without stooping to calling somebody else stupid because they disagree. I hope she gets the memo. There's a way to talk to someone about something they disagree with and then there's a way you don't ever talk to a person you disagree with because it's insulting. Emotion is behind the posts and that's where those insults came from.
 
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That we can talk about an issue without stooping to calling somebody else stupid because they disagree. I hope she gets the memo. There's a way to talk to someone about something they disagree with and then there's a way you don't ever talk to a person you disagree with because it's insulting. Emotion is behind the posts and that's where those insults came from.

Thanks....
 
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."

Hebrews 13:8
 
CoilyFields said:
JeterCrazed

Lemme see if I understand your point

Are you saying Christianity has pagan roots or involves pagan derived rituals? (which one? or both?)

And because of this (one/both of the above statements) Paganism should be taught in schools.

If the above are your correct views, how do you see this being taught? Would pagansim be taught in relation to Christianity (and possibly other religions)? or as its own religion but no connections made between it and others?

And your personal thought...do you believe that the pagan "roots etc." detract from the legitimacy of Christianity?

Sidenote: LIL GURL!!! lol! Why do I have the feeling that your comments are filtering through a dry-witted slick mouth that comes off as inciteful (especially over the internet) but that just might be the way you express yourself? Be nice and behave when you reply Jeter!

Lil girl? Are we throwing insults? Let me know.
Being ignorant is a fact. If you're(read:anybody) insulted, then pick up a book and read.


Christianity has a pagan culture. It has a Druidian culture. The Catholic church brought Christmas, Marti Gras, Fat Tuesday, Tarot, Easter, Lent and all sorts of other pagan traditions into the church.
Christians were an extremely small number compared to paganism. "Christianity" is an organized religion. Before Jesus, it was not. Period. People practiced witchcraft and prayed to Sun gods. Jesus is also a Sun god. Like it or not. When they say "he is risen," they're talking about Jesus- The sun/son...why the bible says you can't look at Him.

Was everyone not damned before the found/accepted Jesus? Who were they? They weren't nameless. They were Pagans, Druids, Witches, Warlocks. They worshipped the Sun. They worshipped Amen-Ra. They burried the dead. I don't care if you believe God was here or Jesus was here or both. These people were pagans. Period. This is written in the bible (Amen, circumcision, animal sacrifices,Vudum Laws/Commandments, etc) and after the bible (Christmas, Fasts, Feasts, etc).
The Hebrews who made a cow to worship were celebrating the Taurus. Pagan. Period.

In short, I'm saying both.




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Crown said:
Just because plenty of Christians support the movie that does not mean it's related to Christianity.
Ok, you think it's Christian because there is casting out demons, right?
On what name?
Christ?
And it's clearly said in the movie?

Quote me where I said the movie was Christian.

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Are you watching the movie right now? Or....

ETA: The movie is not about witchcraft or magic. It supports the Christian agenda like I said. All the other assumptions are frivolous yet effective means to invoke mob psychology. Keep going. It's entertaining.

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Quote me where I said the movie was Christian.

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Please, you know what I mean, you said the movie supports the Christian agenda.
This movie has nothing about Christ.
 
Iwanthealthyhair67 said:
um didn't Tut changed his name from 'haten' to 'hamen', which translates to and egyptian god, that's equivalent to a false god in my opinion.

No. He was King. This is where divine right came from. God made him King and he was recognizing that. Notice all kings of England have Biblical names. Same tradition. So if you name your son Jesus, that makes him a false God? It's called thanksgiving. God was doing his work through him.

Listen to what you're saying.

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Crown said:
Please, you know what I mean, you said the movie supports the Christian agenda.
This movie has nothing about Christ.

There is no "you know what I mean." You can't switch back and forth between implications and declarations and think we can have an intelligent conversation. Be consistent.
Do you know what it means to support an agenda? I think that's where you're confused.

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[USER=34773]MissMasala5[/USER] said:
Coming out of lurk mode to say that this conversation can be had without insults. It is an interesting topic regardless of one's beliefs, or lack of. That said, I think that the movie Twilight isn't the best example here. A better one is the show Being Human. The entire premise is based around these monsters, through no fault of their own (each was attacked and got their "curse", "virus" or whatever) have to come to grips with the fact that they are monsters, all the while trying to preserve their sense of humanity. At some point, they feel as if God has abandoned them and they feel that they shouldn't fight their natures, and simply give up trying to "be human" and march to the devil, willingly. But that small spark of their humanities always seems to trump that.

This story, while fiction, makes me think about the very human struggle that all people have in their day-to-day existences. For some, the monsters are all to real. They come in the form of rapists, molesters, child abusers, cheating or abusive partners and murderers. Some of these criminals actually worship God, are Christians themselves. How did they get to the point where they abandoned the Divine within them to do the most heinous acts against innocents? I hardly doubt it was because they learned about pagans and druids, or watched Harry Potter or Twilight. Evil in humans has always existed. Fiction based on humans will always exercise the fight between good and evil. Some may feel their children need protection from such stories and that is a parent's right to make that call. But they must also be aware the evil in the world exists whether or not there ever was a Jk Rowling, Stephanie Meyer or even Shakespeare, for that matter. A peek at the evening news will attest to this.

It is a fact that pagan beliefs preexisted Judism, Islam and Christianity. An excellent film about how pagans, Jews and Christians once got on together then began to fight against each other is Agora. The fights are sort of a subplot, the main story is about the female philosopher Hypatia and her being the first to put forth the theory that the planets orbit the sun in an elliptical path versus a circular one. She was labled a witch and put to death. Thousands of years later, a man named Kepler took credit for Hypatia's theory.

Factoid about vampires: The only thing close to an actual vampire in real life was the Transylvanian countess Bathory. She was in her late thirties and fell in love with a man in his early twenties. He was betrothed to another, so Bathory had her maid, a witch, make up spells and charms to keep her beloved, as well as to help her keep a youthful appearance. One day, another maid was brushing Bathory's hair and hit a snag, hurting the Countess. She struck the maid and drew blood. Some of that blood landed on the Countess's face. In a deluded state, she swore that the young maid's blood restored her youthful beauty. With the help of accomplices, Bathory killed a reputed 650 people, mostly young women, even children, and bathed in their blood. An investigation into the murders and disappearances led to Bathory's castle were bodies were found. She wasn't executed, but locked in a room without windows and mirrors. It was said that her obsession with her own vanity and not being able to see her own reflection drove her mad, and her madness ultimately killed her. It is said that this woman's bloody obsession was the one to spark the story of fictionalized vampires.

+1 :thankyou: Twilight isn't the best example. It just stuck out like a sore thumb between Harry Potter and the Smurfs. :lol: both understandably contrary to Christian beliefs.
May I ask if you are Catholic?

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Crown said:
It's a forum, not an assembly.

I don't like the way she is conversing.
But, I had so many beliefs that were not scriptural that I like trying to understand what others are trying to say rather than assuming I'm right, she/he is wrong.

You can't understand what a person is saying by not asking questions and waiting to come to a conclusion. I dont like the way you're (more than just you) are conversing by making assumptions, inferences and answering your own question in the same post before I answer. If you feel like you already know and would not accept my answer before I answer, then why are you asking me accept to argue?

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It's totally non-existant... :nono: :nono: :nono:

Part of me just wants to cry about this extreme theology. I just don't know what / how these vampire concepts and paganistic roots to Christianity can be so real to someone. I..I... I ... :nono:
Sorry @Shimmie, I am late for an answer.

Is it so popular?

I know about Zombi, but no relation between Zombi and Christianity.
Christians help those victims to be delivered.
 
JeterCrazed said:
+1 :thankyou: Twilight isn't the best example. It just stuck out like a sore thumb between Harry Potter and the Smurfs. :lol: both understandably contrary to Christian beliefs.
May I ask if you are Catholic?

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No, I'm not Catholic. LOL at the Smurfs!

Regarding what you posted about Christians learning about the roots of religion, I used to think one should have a natural curiousity about that when choosing to embrace a religion. But I learned that they do, albeit mainly Christian scholars who go on to teach and publish books on the topic. Their treatment of the topic is for their peers and students and not necessarily the practictioners or laypeople of the faith, you know? I know a few Christians who are aware of pagan presence in their religion and couldn't care less about that. They are most concerned with their own personal journeys and salvation rather than which came first-- the grove or the church? :lol:

As for what the UK schools are doing, I agree with the fact that this is a part of their history and it should be taught. I also agree that parents have the right to opt out as they see fit for their children. I wonder how things would be if US schools proposed the same thing with say, the beliefs of Native Americans? Somehow I don't think the uproar would be the same since NA beliefs aren't as maligned as the practices of druids, even though those beliefs share the same pagan components-- nature reverence, multiple gods, ancestor reverence, magic/"medicine", etc.
 
I applaud this decision.
Children have a right to knowledge, and its right that they're being given it.
Learning of about other religions made my faith stronger, so i doubt that learning of the existence of other religions will harm these children.
 
MissMasala5 said:
No, I'm not Catholic. LOL at the Smurfs!

Regarding what you posted about Christians learning about the roots of religion, I used to think one should have a natural curiousity about that when choosing to embrace a religion. But I learned that they do, albeit mainly Christian scholars who go on to teach and publish books on the topic. Their treatment of the topic is for their peers and students and not necessarily the practictioners or laypeople of the faith, you know? I know a few Christians who are aware of pagan presence in their religion and couldn't care less about that. They are most concerned with their own personal journeys and salvation rather than which came first-- the grove or the church? :lol:

As for what the UK schools are doing, I agree with the fact that this is a part of their history and it should be taught. I also agree that parents have the right to opt out as they see fit for their children. I wonder how things would be if US schools proposed the same thing with say, the beliefs of Native Americans? Somehow I don't think the uproar would be the same since NA beliefs aren't as maligned as the practices of druids, even though those beliefs share the same pagan components-- nature reverence, multiple gods, ancestor reverence, magic/"medicine", etc.

*leaning on the thanks button*
I understand your view on learning the pagan ways for personal interest, but I don't think it should be reserved for clergymen and the like. I don't think surface knowledge is enough when you're practicing a lifestyle. That isn't to say that you're practicing correctly or incorrectly by knowing or not knowing (which I think was your point, right?), but I do think it becomes a problem retroactively. Making up stories or excuses to fill in the blanks and defend your faith leaves room for doubt or mistakes. Besides the fact that parents always think they know best, people resist and fear what they don't know. To say that it didn't exist is ignorance.
I never had a class on Native American beliefs, but took Latin in junior high school-7th grade. We learned the language and some history on paganism and the teacher was devout Catholic. I begin to wonder how many people in ministry deny this history or are oblivious to it.

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I'll settle for just civility. One can ask and argue a point without stooping to calling people stupid and ignorant where beliefs diverge. At that point, I'd say that someone didn't truly have the information to argue the point or that the person became too emotional, resorting to insults. Either way, it's not necessary. :nono:


I disagree about calling another ignorant; sometimes people are ignorant. And even other times, people are foolish. That's the truth.
 
JeterCrazed said:
Lil girl? Are we throwing insults? Let me know.
Being ignorant is a fact. If you're(read:anybody) insulted, then pick up a book and read.

Christianity has a pagan culture. It has a Druidian culture. The Catholic church brought Christmas, Marti Gras, Fat Tuesday, Tarot, Easter, Lent and all sorts of other pagan traditions into the church.
Christians were an extremely small number compared to paganism. "Christianity" is an organized religion. Before Jesus, it was not. Period. People practiced witchcraft and prayed to Sun gods. Jesus is also a Sun god. Like it or not. When they say "he is risen," they're talking about Jesus- The sun/son...why the bible says you can't look at Him.

Was everyone not damned before the found/accepted Jesus? Who were they? They weren't nameless. They were Pagans, Druids, Witches, Warlocks. They worshipped the Sun. They worshipped Amen-Ra. They burried the dead. I don't care if you believe God was here or Jesus was here or both. These people were pagans. Period. This is written in the bible (Amen, circumcision, animal sacrifices,Vudum Laws/Commandments, etc) and after the bible (Christmas, Fasts, Feasts, etc).
The Hebrews who made a cow to worship were celebrating the Taurus. Pagan. Period.

In short, I'm saying both.

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Maybe I should have prefaced my sidenote with a disclaimer that I call folks lil girl and meant no insult.

As to your answer : so how would u answer my other questions? How would it be taught and do you think it detracts from the authenticity of christianity? (Do u believe Jesus is the only way to salvation )
 
CoilyFields said:
Maybe I should have prefaced my sidenote with a disclaimer that I call folks lil girl and meant no insult.

As to your answer : so how would u answer my other questions? How would it be taught and do you think it detracts from the authenticity of christianity? (Do u believe Jesus is the only way to salvation )

It's not a distraction at all! In the way they're trying to teach is in an educational setting, they should visit languages like Latin, Old English, Middle English...visit medicine as there would be no medicine without magic...visit the continued fascination with the sun...family values and matriarchy...Christians and the Crusades...Charlemagne...Thesalonian code...Beowulf...Maybe they can skip the orgies that became Christmas and Ishtar/Easter, because they're 11 and 12, but this book could be a great reference for a high school class.

ForumRunner_20120425_181321.jpg

ETA: Oops forgot the last. The better question is "Do I believe in salvation?" I don't get into beliefs. The answer to THAT is a loaded "no."
Also, it enhances authenticity. These beliefs didn't just come out of thin air-even with the ergot poisoning.

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I disagree about calling another ignorant; sometimes people are ignorant. And even other times, people are foolish. That's the truth.


The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 9:10
 
I disagree about calling another ignorant; sometimes people are ignorant. And even other times, people are foolish. That's the truth.


When we stoop to calling them such, we become wrong by insulting them to harm them. That was basically my point. We can communicate without inferring or directly charging people with being ignorant and dumb. The 5th commandment is against killing. If I look into a deeper Jewish teaching on this or catholic, I will find that insults are against this commandment. Am I guilty? Yes. I've broken it a number of times but I also realize it is wrong. If someone doesn't regard the decalogue, they still know right from wrong in their hearts. We are all intelligent women and some of us know things that others do not yet know but no one here is "stupid."

I am actually against telling another his spiritual prescription, for the most part. I also know that ignorance is relative and subjective. One's foolishness is another's gold and vice-versa. It all depends upon one's perspective.
 
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There are several of us who understand very different viewpoints. Even with the exegeses given, there's still room for deeper studies that might disprove or support a particular counter point of view. Few people actually look to the oldest writings themselves for guidance. Maybe if we all put down our bows and arrows and come to the table to talk WITH each other rather than AT each other, all points will them be respected? I dunno, I think it's possible.
 
JeterCrazed said:
It's not a distraction at all! In the way they're trying to teach is in an educational setting, they should visit languages like Latin, Old English, Middle English...visit medicine as there would be no medicine without magic...visit the continued fascination with the sun...family values and matriarchy...Christians and the Crusades...Charlemagne...Thesalonian code...Beowulf...Maybe they can skip the orgies that became Christmas and Ishtar/Easter, because they're 11 and 12, but this book could be a great reference for a high school class.

ETA: Oops forgot the last. The better question is "Do I believe in salvation?" I don't get into beliefs. The answer to THAT is a loaded "no."
Also, it enhances authenticity. These beliefs didn't just come out of thin air-even with the ergot poisoning.

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Thank you. I now understand where you're coming from.

My response is this:
Though it may be arguable that paganism should be taught from a historical point of view in england, I do not agree that it should be taught in conjunction with christianity because christianity does not have its roots in paganism.
Before there was any organized religion there was God (father son and holy ghost ). After adam sinned the bible, in genesis, speaks about man seeking after other gods. Witchcraft, paganism etc would fall into this category. God chose when he wanted to come "back on the scene" again and establish himself as God almighty and attach himself to a group of people and the first legitimate religion, Judaism. The plan of God was from the beginning, not patched together from pieces of witchcraft from early cultures. So it is paganism that is counterfeit. They wrongly worshiped the creations instead of the creator (the sun instead of the son-who did not just hop on the scene at his human birth but had been with God from the beginning).
But, if you have not accepted Jesus as saviour then I do not expect that you would see or necessarily agree with this.
 
We are all intelligent women and some of us know things that others do not yet know but no one here is "stupid."

:yep::yep::yep: I agree no one is 'stupid', but I have to say many comments are 'unwise', especially those with absurdities regarding Christianity.

It amazes me that non Christians have so much to say about their Christians knowledge... yet it's not scriptually supported...
 
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CoilyFields said:
Thank you. I now understand where you're coming from.

My response is this:
Though it may be arguable that paganism should be taught from a historical point of view in england, I do not agree that it should be taught in conjunction with christianity because christianity does not have its roots in paganism.
Before there was any organized religion there was God (father son and holy ghost ). After adam sinned the bible, in genesis, speaks about man seeking after other gods. Witchcraft, paganism etc would fall into this category. God chose when he wanted to come "back on the scene" again and establish himself as God almighty and attach himself to a group of people and the first legitimate religion, Judaism. The plan of God was from the beginning, not patched together from pieces of witchcraft from early cultures. So it is paganism that is counterfeit. They wrongly worshiped the creations instead of the creator (the sun instead of the son-who did not just hop on the scene at his human birth but had been with God from the beginning).
But, if you have not accepted Jesus as saviour then I do not expect that you would see or necessarily agree with this.

There is fact. There is opinion. Pagan roots of Christianity is fact. What is counterfeit is opinion. No one said paganism or witchcraft was true and this is not how it's taught in school. Since Adam did not write Genesis, it's irrelevant to civilization in between creation and scripture. This is not a matter of opinion. This is fact.

ETA: There were religions before Judaism. Hint: the world is round.

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Thank you. I now understand where you're coming from.

My response is this:

Though it may be arguable that paganism should be taught from a historical point of view in england, I do not agree that it should be taught in conjunction with christianity because christianity does not have its roots in paganism.


Before there was any organized religion there was God (father son and holy ghost ).

After adam sinned the bible, in genesis, speaks about man seeking after other gods. Witchcraft, paganism etc would fall into this category. God chose when he wanted to come "back on the scene" again and establish himself as God almighty and attach himself to a group of people and the first legitimate religion, Judaism.

The plan of God was from the beginning, not patched together from pieces of witchcraft from early cultures. So it is paganism that is counterfeit.

They wrongly worshiped the creations instead of the creator (the sun instead of the son-who did not just hop on the scene at his human birth but had been with God from the beginning).


But, if you have not accepted Jesus as saviour then I do not expect that you would see or necessarily agree with this.

I just have to say thank you for your entire post. Without malice, or condemnation, you simply spoke the truth... plain and simple and gentle.

A blessing... :yep:
 
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Proverbs 9:10

This blesses me, as it wasn't until I surrendered my life to God, that life fell into place. His wisdom prevailed, not me, but Him and each day, I am learning more and more about His grace and His holy understanding. There's no other way, than God's way. For His way is 'perfect'.
 
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