What harm is caused by legislation

[SummerSolstice]

There are a bunch of Christians upset because of Obama's comment about gay marriage.


I am wondering why everyone is afraid for gay marriage to be legalized. The church will forever have the right to choose not to participate.

I am more afraid that they would take away religious freedoms, but in this case I think a law like this will protect our own rights as Christians in the future...


Anyways what are the thoughts on this? People keep telling me its a sin and its wrong and we can't support it. I understand that. So when we go to church, we reject the behavior there... Right?

What are we afraid of here? Please share ladies.

 

[LucieLoo12]

There are a bunch of Christians upset because of Obama's comment about gay marriage.


I am wondering why everyone is afraid for gay marriage to be legalized. The church will forever have the right to choose not to participate.

I am more afraid that they would take away religious freedoms, but in this case I think a law like this will protect our own rights as Christians in the future...


Anyways what are the thoughts on this? People keep telling me its a sin and its wrong and we can't support it. I understand that. So when we go to church, we reject the behavior there... Right?

What are we afraid of here? Please share ladies.

We are not "afraid" of it being legalized. We are AGAINST it.It's abomination to God, it's a slapped in the face to God.
I don't understand how all other type of activist groups such as PETA, woman's rights, race rights, etc can be bold on what they stand on, and be praised, but when a Christians speaks about things that we believe in, we are are looked at as judgemental...

And as far as the church rejecting the behavior.......we should go to church to be freed from homosexaulity, not let it be condone there.We love the person, but we reject the sin of it. If anyone is going to a church where homosexuality is condone, they need to run.

What I dont understand is Christians that are for homosexuality? How can we say love God ,but we love/agree with the things that God hates. Thats hyprocritcal...

 

[Rainbow Dash]

We are called to be light and salt in the earth. We are to stand for truth in God's eyes and not our own. Afraid?? We better fear God. God's judgement is on a nation that calls evil good and good evil. The ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrha approved and partook of this very thing and were destroyed. God's judgement is on a nation that turns it's back on God. This type of legislation does that very thing.

We as the Church are not called to just sit in the church and be okay that others are lost. We are called to do the great commission. We are called to speak truth and life to the lost. We are called to snatch some out of the fire. What if no one told you the truth? What if they just said, "it's not my issue?" What about eternity? What about souls?

Your religious freedoms will be taken anyway. It's in the word. That is already in the works if you have not been paying attention.

 

[SummerSolstice]

We are not "afraid" of it being legalized. We are AGAINST it.It's abomination to God, it's a slapped in the face to God.
I don't understand how all other type of activist groups such as PETA, woman's rights, race rights, etc can be bold on what they stand on, and be praised, but when a Christians speaks about things that we believe in, we are are looked at as judgemental...

And as far as the church rejecting the behavior.......we should go to church to be freed from homosexaulity, not let it be condone there.We love the person, but we reject the sin of it. If anyone is going to a church where homosexuality is condone, they need to run.

What I dont understand is Christians that are for homosexuality? How can we say love God ,but we love/agree with the things that God hates. Thats hyprocritcal...

I was referring to the fact that Churches have the right to say they will not marry gay people. My church chooses not to marry straight people so it would be almost hilarious if a someone tried same sex marriage at my church. I am wondering if anyone would even dare to try it at my church

 

[SummerSolstice]

We are called to be light and salt in the earth. We are to stand for truth in God's eyes and not our own. Afraid?? We better fear God. God's judgement is on a nation that calls evil good and good evil. The ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrha approved and partook of this very thing and were destroyed. God's judgement is on a nation that turns it's back on God. This type of legislation does that very thing.

We as the Church are not called to just sit in the church and be okay that others are lost. We are called to do the great commission. We are called to speak truth and life to the lost. We are called to snatch some out of the fire. What if no one told you the truth? What if they just said, "it's not my issue?" What about eternity? What about souls?

Your religious freedoms will be taken anyway. It's in the word. That is already in the works if you have not been paying attention.

Yeah, we know this already.

I am saying though, do you guys think that God will start throwing asteroids at Capitol Hill next week? I'm not saying that to be funny I am just wondering why we get so wrapped up in this one issue. I understand taking a stand... my church did it and I was right there with them. But when I get up in the morning I'm more worried about whether I will be able to have enough money to raise a family.

 

[LucieLoo12]

I was referring to the fact that Churches have the right to say they will not marry gay people. My church chooses not to marry straight people so it would be almost hilarious if a someone tried same sex marriage at my church. I am wondering if anyone would even dare to try it at my church

Yeah, we know this already.

I am saying though, do you guys think that God will start throwing asteroids at Capitol Hill next week? I'm not saying that to be funny I am just wondering why we get so wrapped up in this one issue. I understand taking a stand... my church did it and I was right there with them. But when I get up in the morning I'm more worried about whether I will be able to have enough money to raise a family.

Judgement is in the hands of the Lord, so we don't know what He will do. The bible speaks about how in the last day it will get even worse than it was in Sodom and Gomorrah, so you havent seen nothing yet. This is just the beginning. Scriptures must be fulfilled.

And it's not about being wrapped up in one issue, it's about not taking this I dont care attitude with it.We should care. Somebody got to blow the trumpet to let people know this isn't acceptable.People got to see everyone does not feel this way, and God is not pleased.

For example the Trayvon murder case. You had people rallying everywhere for that boy...millions. Some may think, well its just one murder. But it sends a message to everyone that this behavior is not acceptable.

 

[auparavant]

Why not call it something else other than marriage? I agree they should get benefits and life insurance etc. with their partners. They should be afforded every single RIGHT we have...but men go to the men's restroom and women go to theirs...and the unisex family restroom is "one-at-a-time." We pretend that marriage is not between two fo the opposite sex. It's a different thing. I'm for rights...but not the right to infringe upon something else that is socially and morally established since time immemorial. Call it something else and make it your own where there is no confusion. I want folks to come up with a specialized term for it. Our catholic church will never ordain female priests and neither will it "marry" two of the same sex. Does that mean we agree with discrimination against those who want to be "priests" and those who want legal protection while living with their partners of the same sex? No, but you can't do that here...find your rightful space. But don't infringe upon what we teach in our church. Well, that's my take on it and I'm pretty darned liberal.

 

[aribell]

In general, I believe that people have the right to order their affairs however they choose. Meaning that if you want to have all your possessions in common with someone--whoever that is--you should be able to do so. I think that if you are sick, you should be able to have whomever you want at your bedside, regardless of family relationship. I have a libertarian streak and in that sense, I don't believe that the government needs to recognize "marriage" at all. *However* insofar as the government is going to recognize marriage legally, I am not going to support redefining it because that does not accord with my understanding of what marriage is.

Legislation is huge culturally. What becomes legal is what the next generation embraces culturally. That's why it's being pushed so hard. If it weren't a big deal, people would not be elated and in tears because of Obama's statement.

Is this the same as interracial marriage? Nope. Race is an irrelevant concept when it comes down to it. It has little significance biologically and political attempts to define by race have always been about power plays to oppress or elevate one group over another. Racial distinctions come into play politically and socially in order to separate and marginalize. The fact that marriage has been understood as between a man and a woman has never had anything whatsoever to do with gay people or homosexuality in general.

 

[Poohbear]

The harm is more and more acceptance of all types of sin...

We already have divorce and abortion legalized... what's next?

It's okay to murder someone if they make you angry?

It's okay to steal from the store if you don't have the money?

What other excuses for sin will we have legalized or the laws wiped out?


(^^^not questions to be answered, just rhethorical questions to think about...)

 

[SummerSolstice]

My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what Poohbear said).
This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."

 

[LucieLoo12]

My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what @Poohbear said).
This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."

What do mean? Like what to do about it?

 

[Shimmie]

My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what Poohbear said).

This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."

Makes sense

 

[Rainbow Dash]

My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what @Poohbear said).
This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."

Who says we are not helping one another with personal issues? This is why we come together and minister to one another. We have missionaries all throughout the world. We give/donate to the needy. Even on this forum we have a prayer line where we pray for personal issues and speak words of encouragement. And while we are doing all of this we can still stand up for what is right.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what @Poohbear said).
This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."

Here is a research article on the implications of homosexulity gathered by Family Resources Council.

http://networkedblogs.com/xlvzB

 

[loolalooh]

I don't know about everyone else, but in addition to what some have said, I'm also shaking my head that Obama, who says he is Christian, is not standing on the Word of God. He's "selling out" for votes.

 

[Laela]

There is indeed social/economic impact on everyone else. One legal advantage that gays get in marriage that rubs me the wrong way is the ability to have dual status for taxes - they can file as married filing together or separately AND as single or head of households, which can give them tax advantage over every one... that's really wrong..they either are single or married. Heterosexual married cannot file as single or head of household...

Then, there is health insurance...the biggest costs for health insurers is AIDS and AIDS treatment (I'm very well aware not only gays have AIDS - but the CDC says gays and bisexuals account for the highest number of new infections)...when the pool of dollars are going toward expensive treatments, there leaves little less for everyone else for care AND it increases our health costs, because insurers then have to pass the costs to the insureds.

A heterosexual couple can't get health coverage for fertility treatment to have children, but an insurer must spend hundreds of thousands to treat a patient with AIDs/HIV. Um, where they getting all that money from?

US

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."

 

[CoilyFields]

The salt of the earth is called to "preserve" it. We are to manifest and preserve God's will on this earth. No matter how the world says its ok. So it our DUTY to support things that support God's word and to reject things that reject his word. I've said it once and Ill say it again...we CANNOT COMPARTMENTALIZE our CHristianity. We better be trying to influence everything and everybody around us to accept and be in the will of God. And in America we are given the legal right to vote and we best use it to further God's kingdom...not satans. We cannot "not care" what others do...we should not support an "anything goes/you like it I love it" society.

We already know that God has punished whole nations for their sins...we also know that he searched the earth for someone to STAND in the gap for a nation before he destroyed it...but he Couldnt find one. Now that right there is a shame...

I also support the point that what becomes legal will soon be accepted culturally.

 

[SummerSolstice]

There is indeed social/economic impact on everyone else. One legal advantage that gays get in marriage that rubs me the wrong way is the ability to have dual status for taxes - they can file as married filing together or separately AND as single or head of households, which can give them tax advantage over every one... that's really wrong..they either are single or married. Heterosexual married cannot file as single or head of household...

Then, there is health insurance...the biggest costs for health insurers is AIDS and AIDS treatment (I'm very well aware not only gays have AIDS - but the CDC says gays and bisexuals account for the highest number of new infections)...when the pool of dollars are going toward expensive treatments, there leaves little less for everyone else for care AND it increases our health costs, because insurers then have to pass the costs to the insureds.

A heterosexual couple can't get health coverage for fertility treatment to have children, but an insurer must spend hundreds of thousands to treat a patient with AIDs/HIV. Um, where they getting all that money from?

US

@Laela

THANK YOU!!!! Finally. I haven't had time to research this side of it but that is an excellent point.

ETA: The bolded... why are we often persuaded to just ignore this fact? Its a fact!!!!!!!!

 

[SummerSolstice]

Who says we are not helping one another with personal issues? This is why we come together and minister to one another. We have missionaries all throughout the world. We give/donate to the needy. Even on this forum we have a prayer line where we pray for personal issues and speak words of encouragement. And while we are doing all of this we can still stand up for what is right.

Health&hair28 I think u may have misunderstood what I was saying... Basically I have observed more people who are willing to picket outside of abortion clinics or gather signatures to send to congress abt amendment 1...
I've seen more people doing that than taking gay folks into their homes... being their friends... offering guidance the right way... I just don't see people doing the dirty work in that aspect.
There is an abortion clinic near my house and they were picketing and telling people they were going to hell...
I asked one of these fools "what are you doing to help these women"
She said... I'm gonna pray for them.

Do u see what I mean now?

 

[SummerSolstice]

The salt of the earth is called to "preserve" it. We are to manifest and preserve God's will on this earth. No matter how the world says its ok. So it our DUTY to support things that support God's word and to reject things that reject his word. I've said it once and Ill say it again...we CANNOT COMPARTMENTALIZE our CHristianity. We better be trying to influence everything and everybody around us to accept and be in the will of God. And in America we are given the legal right to vote and we best use it to further God's kingdom...not satans. We cannot "not care" what others do...we should not support an "anything goes/you like it I love it" society.

We already know that God has punished whole nations for their sins...we also know that he searched the earth for someone to STAND in the gap for a nation before he destroyed it...but he Couldnt find one. Now that right there is a shame...

I also support the point that what becomes legal will soon be accepted culturally.

I agree. Also I think we're missing out on the negative implications of a same sex parental unit. People aren't talking about that.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

@Health&hair28 I think u may have misunderstood what I was saying... Basically I have observed more people who are willing to picket outside of abortion clinics or gather signatures to send to congress abt amendment 1...
I've seen more people doing that than taking gay folks into their homes... being their friends... offering guidance the right way... I just don't see people doing the dirty work in that aspect.
There is an abortion clinic near my house and they were picketing and telling people they were going to hell...
I asked one of these fools "what are you doing to help these women"
She said... I'm gonna pray for them.

Do u see what I mean now?

I see what you mean but you are not in every place. I know of Christians who volunteer in family planning clinics to help guide women who are pregnant and feel lost. They provide counseling and prayer. I also know of Christians who advocate for abused children who can't speak up for themselves. I know of ministries that reach out to homosexuals, especially the one who have been delivered from the lifestyle. This does not mean Christians can't stand up and advocate what they believe.

Why do people want Christians to be quiet while everyone voices their beliefs?

 

[CelineB]

I don't know about everyone else, but in addition to what some have said, I'm also shaking my head that Obama, who says he is Christian, is not standing on the Word of God. He's "selling out" for votes.

Well, he has just confirmed that he is not Christian. Jesus Christ is against homosexuality.

 

[Poohbear]

My friend just explained to me in a heated text battle that our church did what it did to protect children of future generations because society will continue to change (similar to what Poohbear said).
This is important to me, but to me the emotional issues are not being dealt with properly. Yes evil is taking over the world but we aren't helping each other on a personal level with our issues.

I guess I want Christians to talk about the implications of the issue more often instead of just saying "I'm against it."

Evil isn't taking over the world... It's just that we have the media highlighting evil more to the public eye. Evil has always been in this world ever since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden.

 

[LovelyNaps26]

maybe i wasn't surprised by this b/c i saw Obama as one who views the tenants of the Christian faith as valuable and culturally meaningful. You have a lot of leeway if you take that perspective. Then again, I kinda feel this way with most politicians. I know many who view Christianity this way. I can think of several churches within walking distance that have the gay pride rainbow displayed outside of the building to indicate that homosexuality is welcome. For some, it's not a contradiction despite the fact that the Bible is pretty black and white.

If I don't vote for Obama I will likely not vote at all, which is unfortunate but true

 

[NewDayNewMe]

I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? People have been getting married before Christ. Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married.

How will making gay marriage legal entice more people to become gay?
Again people have been gay B.C. You are either attracted to the same sex or you are not. Maybe gay marriage will allow more closeted gays to feel safer to come out but they are already gay on the inside and God judges not only the action but the heart, so gay marriage cannot make people gay.

I also find it interesting that someone mentioned fertility treatments. I think is interesting that people find homosexuality so abominable but think that God is ok with man making babies in a Petri dish but I digress.

I found it shocking to suggest that gay couples should be denied health coverage or HIV/AIDS treatment. Legalizing gay marriage will not increase the HIV/AIDS rate it will just increase the amount of people that are able to get coverage. Should gay people with HIV/AIDS not get treatment and die? IMHO there is nothing Christ like about this. Did Jesus not heal the leper?
I believe that Jesus is love and love is the only way to combat evil or hate. I try to always do unto others as I would have them do unto me. If I happened to awake tomorrow and find that homosexuals were the majority would I want them to make a law that prohibits me from marrying a man? If I awoke tomorrow and found that Islam was the prevailing religion would I want them to make laws telling me I have to be covered from head to toe because their God finds my style of dress abominable? This is America and the first amendment grants us freedom of religion. To make laws based on a particular religion limits the freedoms of those who are not believers in it. We are all granted certain inalienable rights from our creator among them the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. No one or one religious group (even my own) has the right to infringe on those rights.

 

[Shimmie]

The salt of the earth is called to "preserve" it. We are to manifest and preserve God's will on this earth. No matter how the world says its ok. So it our DUTY to support things that support God's word and to reject things that reject his word. I've said it once and Ill say it again...we CANNOT COMPARTMENTALIZE our CHristianity. We better be trying to influence everything and everybody around us to accept and be in the will of God. And in America we are given the legal right to vote and we best use it to further God's kingdom...not satans. We cannot "not care" what others do...we should not support an "anything goes/you like it I love it" society.

We already know that God has punished whole nations for their sins...we also know that he searched the earth for someone to STAND in the gap for a nation before he destroyed it...but he Couldnt find one. Now that right there is a shame...

I also support the point that what becomes legal will soon be accepted culturally.

At the bolded... Yes indeed. Now, women get abortions like it's a hair appointment. The first question one asks these days, "Are you going to 'keep' it ? " Abortion has been accepted as the 'normal alternative'. gays are banking (literally 'banking') upon this for their agenda.

 

[SummerSolstice]

Well, he has just confirmed that he is not Christian. Jesus Christ is against homosexuality.

Choisie thats not true. You're not God you can't really determine salvation. I say that with love btw. There are plenty of Christians who support things that Jesus does not.
For instance... divorce... gluttony... etc.
We can't run around saying who's a Christian and who is not... Lets leave that to our savior to decide. The weight of that decision is quite heavy and I'm sure none of us would REALLY want to carry it. I believe a cross was about 300 lbs back then...

 

[Laela]

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning —the first day.



God was there before 'marriage'


Not everyone on earth believes marriage is between an man and a woman; but of course, not everyone on earth believes God, in God or that there is a God. But there is. The only way the naysayers will find out for sure is to just DIE without believing.

I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? People have been getting married before Christ. Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married.
.

 

[SummerSolstice]

I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? People have been getting married before Christ. Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married.

How will making gay marriage legal entice more people to become gay?
Again people have been gay B.C. You are either attracted to the same sex or you are not. Maybe gay marriage will allow more closeted gays to feel safer to come out but they are already gay on the inside and God judges not only the action but the heart, so gay marriage cannot make people gay.

I also find it interesting that someone mentioned fertility treatments. I think is interesting that people find homosexuality so abominable but think that God is ok with man making babies in a Petri dish but I digress.

I found it shocking to suggest that gay couples should be denied health coverage or HIV/AIDS treatment. Legalizing gay marriage will not increase the HIV/AIDS rate it will just increase the amount of people that are able to get coverage. Should gay people with HIV/AIDS not get treatment and die? IMHO there is nothing Christ like about this. Did Jesus not heal the leper?
I believe that Jesus is love and love is the only way to combat evil or hate. I try to always do unto others as I would have them do unto me. If I happened to awake tomorrow and find that homosexuals were the majority would I want them to make a law that prohibits me from marrying a man? If I awoke tomorrow and found that Islam was the prevailing religion would I want them to make laws telling me I have to be covered from head to toe because their God finds my style of dress abominable? This is America and the first amendment grants us freedom of religion. To make laws based on a particular religion limits the freedoms of those who are not believers in it. We are all granted certain inalienable rights from our creator among them the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. No one or one religious group (even my own) has the right to infringe on those rights.

NewDayNewMe
I think u misunderstood... she was saying that the cost to treat HIV is extremely high, and the actions (gay sex) are being justified, when really the risky act is costing tax payers tons of money.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Not understanding why Christians do not agree with God. But are willing to approve, justify things He disapproves of.