What harm is caused by legislation

[SummerSolstice]

I see what you mean but you are not in every place. I know of Christians who volunteer in family planning clinics to help guide women who are pregnant and feel lost. They provide counseling and prayer. I also know of Christians who advocate for abused children who can't speak up for themselves. I know of ministries that reach out to homosexuals, especially the one who have been delivered from the lifestyle. This does not mean Christians can't stand up and advocate what they believe.

Why do people want Christians to be quiet while everyone voices their beliefs?

Health&hair28
I don't want us to be quiet
I'm a "loud" type of poster why would I want that?
I want us to do things properly though.
And thanks for posting about ministries. I realize there are people who do serve but I just think we could do better. We can always do better.

 

[Laela]

Love you, sis... but evil is increasing, trying to win as many souls as it can. The Bible is clear evil will increase, that is not to say we should be alarmed or fearful. It will happen, because God said it will happen. The saddest part is that Christians/churches have already become a form, without power by embracing evildoers and wickedness. (2 Timothy 3).

Evil isn't taking over the world... It's just that we have the media highlighting evil more to the public eye. Evil has always been in this world ever since Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Poohbear]

NewDayNewMe - I understand that people have been getting married before Christ, but were there men getting married to men back then? Were there women getting married to women back then?

Also, not sure about everyone else, but I personally do not see making gay marriage legal as enticing more people to become gay. I just think legalizing gay marriage will make the whole idea more acceptable and that is not a good thing in my opinion.

And I personally do not agree that gays should be denied treatment of HIV/AIDS. Anyone can get HIV/AIDS whether they are gay or not. So I think it's an extreme thing for people to say that (I know you didn't say this, I'm talking about whoever did say this). I also do not think legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS.

I just wanted to know why gay getting married ruffles so many feather. Is marriage only applicable to Christians? People have been getting married before Christ. Atheist, satanist, wickens and agnostics all get married. No one is making a law telling them they can not get married.

How will making gay marriage legal entice more people to become gay?
Again people have been gay B.C. You are either attracted to the same sex or you are not. Maybe gay marriage will allow more closeted gays to feel safer to come out but they are already gay on the inside and God judges not only the action but the heart, so gay marriage cannot make people gay.

I also find it interesting that someone mentioned fertility treatments. I think is interesting that people find homosexuality so abominable but think that God is ok with man making babies in a Petri dish but I digress.

I found it shocking to suggest that gay couples should be denied health coverage or HIV/AIDS treatment. Legalizing gay marriage will not increase the HIV/AIDS rate it will just increase the amount of people that are able to get coverage. Should gay people with HIV/AIDS not get treatment and die? IMHO there is nothing Christ like about this. Did Jesus not heal the leper?
I believe that Jesus is love and love is the only way to combat evil or hate. I try to always do unto others as I would have them do unto me. If I happened to awake tomorrow and find that homosexuals were the majority would I want them to make a law that prohibits me from marrying a man? If I awoke tomorrow and found that Islam was the prevailing religion would I want them to make laws telling me I have to be covered from head to toe because their God finds my style of dress abominable? This is America and the first amendment grants us freedom of religion. To make laws based on a particular religion limits the freedoms of those who are not believers in it. We are all granted certain inalienable rights from our creator among them the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. No one or one religious group (even my own) has the right to infringe on those rights.

 

[SummerSolstice]

I don't know about everyone else, but in addition to what some have said, I'm also shaking my head that Obama, who says he is Christian, is not standing on the Word of God. He's "selling out" for votes.

loolalooh I'm not sure that he is saying that he thinks its right. I think he is saying that he wants for all of us to have the same benefits. Marriage has a lot to do with finances and healthcare. I think if this was not the case then people wouldn't be so pressed to do it.

 

[Poohbear]

NewDayNewMe
I think u misunderstood... she was saying that the cost to treat HIV is extremely high, and the actions (gay sex) are being justified, when really the risky act is costing tax payers tons of money.

SummerSolstice
But I think NewDayNewMe is also saying that gays aren't the only ones increasing the high cost to treat HIV/AIDS...there are heterosexuals doing so as well...unmarried AND married ones! There are cases where heterosexual fornication and adultery are being justified as well, not just homosexuality.

 

[SummerSolstice]

@NewDayNewMe - I understand that people have been getting married before Christ, but were there men getting married to men back then? Were there women getting married to women back then?

Also, not sure about everyone else, but I personally do not see making gay marriage legal as enticing more people to become gay. I just think legalizing gay marriage will make the whole idea more acceptable and that is not a good thing in my opinion.

And I personally do not agree that gays should be denied treatment of HIV/AIDS. Anyone can get HIV/AIDS whether they are gay or not. So I think it's an extreme thing for people to say that (I know you didn't say this, I'm talking about whoever did say this). I also do not think legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS.

I agree

also I think @Laela was saying that most (not all) HIV/AIDS cases are in that community and are a result of anal sex.
So basically our tax dollars are paying for the horrible consequences of the said sex acts.

ETA: I think stats are in the favor of this argument. but I will check the CDC website

 

[NewDayNewMe]

God was there before 'marriage'


Not everyone on earth believes marriage is between an man and a woman; but of course, not everyone on earth believes God, in God or that there is a God. But there is. The only way the naysayers will find out for sure is to just DIE without believing.

I totally agreewith you but not everyone believes and that is their right. Salvation is a choice. The fact is whether gays get "married" or not they will still be gay. Also a bigger point, which I think a lot of Christians miss is that just because you don't sin (although everyone does in some way) does not mean you are saved. Salvation is about the heart and that is something only God can see and judge and I find him to be highly capable of doing that on his own without my assistance. Some people are going to let "gays" condemn them to hell not because they did or did not support gay marriage but because they have hate in their hearts and did not extend the love of Christ to everyone they came into contact with.

 

[SummerSolstice]

Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Not understanding why Christians do not agree with God. But are willing to approve, justify things He disapproves of.

Health&hair28
Christians do this because they are humans just like everyone else. Nobody who walks this earth is going to be perfect and all we can do is try to help each other stay strong until the time comes for us to get out of here!

I used to (as a teenager) wear my Christianity like this badge of honor that made me better than everyone else and lets just say God has His ways of bringing you back to reality.

I'm not saying this behavior is correct but people are people.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

I totally agreewith you but not everyone believes and that is their right. Salvation is a choice. The fact is whether gays get "married" or not they will still be gay. Also a bigger point, which I think a lot of Christians miss is that just because you don't sin (although everyone does in some way) does not mean you are saved. Salvation is about the heart and that is something only God can see and judge and I find him to be highly capable of doing that on his own without my assistance. Some people are going to let "gays" condemn them to hell not because they did or did not support gay marriage but because they have hate in their hearts and did not extend the love of Christ to everyone they came into contact with.

If we really love people we will show love and tell them the truth. You are correct hatred is not of God but telling God's truth is not hatred.

Jesus told the woman caught in adultery that He did not condemn her and to go and sin no more. He loved her enough to tell her to stop sinning. He knew that if she stayed in that lifestyle she would receive the eternal penalty.

Love is why He came and showed us the Way and gave us the power through Him to overcome sin and live right before Him. I mean, He did say "go into the highways compel them to come."

 

[NewDayNewMe]

@NewDayNewMe - I understand that people have been getting married before Christ, but were there men getting married to men back then? Were there women getting married to women back then?

Also, not sure about everyone else, but I personally do not see making gay marriage legal as enticing more people to become gay. I just think legalizing gay marriage will make the whole idea more acceptable and that is not a good thing in my opinion.

And I personally do not agree that gays should be denied treatment of HIV/AIDS. Anyone can get HIV/AIDS whether they are gay or not. So I think it's an extreme thing for people to say that (I know you didn't say this, I'm talking about whoever did say this). I also do not think legalizing gay marriage will increase HIV/AIDS.

No I don't think same sexes were getting married back then. My point was that marriage is not exclusive to Christians all kinds of people get married for all kinds of reasons and no one is making a fuss about it. I just don't understand why there is so much vigor and passion about gay marriage in particular. To me it is a distraction from the more pressing work that we could be doing.

Gay people are going to be gay whether they do it in the closet or in the open. If we created an environment where they could be free to be themselves maybe there would not be so many men on the down low infecting their wives with HIV. The bottom line is everyone needs to fear God not me or you (not you in particular). As my mama told me I don't have no hell to put nobody in or a heaven to keep them out of.

 

[CelineB]

@Choisie thats not true. You're not God you can't really determine salvation. I say that with love btw. There are plenty of Christians who support things that Jesus does not.
For instance... divorce... gluttony... etc.
We can't run around saying who's a Christian and who is not... Lets leave that to our savior to decide. The weight of that decision is quite heavy and I'm sure none of us would REALLY want to carry it. I believe a cross was about 300 lbs back then...

SummerSolstice,
I am not talking about salvation. I just think that as christian, Obama has to stand for the Word of God. We all know what God thinks about Homosexuality and marriage. Rom. 1: 26-27 or Lev18: 22.
We cannot say we are christians and not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. We are for Christ or we are not.
Also you cannot compare divorce and homesexuality. God does not like divorce but he allows divorce in case of sexual immorality.
I am not judging anybody. We are all sinners. But if us christians cannot stand for what is clearly stated in the Bible then we are lying to ourselves.
Obama is clearly choosing the votes against his christian believes.

Speaking of salvation :Cor 6:9-11.

 

[CoilyFields]

I agree. Also I think we're missing out on the negative implications of a same sex parental unit. People aren't talking about that.

I totally understand what you mean about the negative outcomes etc. But...I try to make sure that my number one promotion is of God's word...for the sake of His word...not because of statistics that may support it being negative. Because in 10 years...these stats may change...or what about sins that have no measured statistics to show them being wrong? Know what I mean?

With my teen class I always emphasize they should not fornicate because God ordained sex for marriage. Period. THEN I will talk about some of the negative consequences of fornication (pregnancy, stds etc. ) becuase they all think that they will be the exception to the rule and even if they never get pregnant or an std...its still wrong!

So I think having stats to show just how misguided a sin is is good, and we should be aware like you said...but just dont make it our foundation (not that you said it was...I'm just saying )

 

[dicapr]

@loolalooh I'm not sure that he is saying that he thinks its right. I think he is saying that he wants for all of us to have the same benefits. Marriage has a lot to do with finances and healthcare. I think if this was not the case then people wouldn't be so pressed to do it.

I think you have hit the heart of the matter. Supporting their rights under freedom of religon does not equal the belief that their personal decision is morally right. If you see them as two separate issues then you are not a christian. You can believe that something is morally wrong but make the decsion not to deprive someone else the ability to make that decision for themselves.

 

[dicapr]

@SummerSolstice,
I am not talking about salvation. I just think that as christian, Obama has to stand for the Word of God. We all know what God thinks about Homosexuality and marriage. Rom. 1: 26-27 or Lev18: 22.
We cannot say we are christians and not follow the teaching of Jesus Christ. We are for Christ or we are not.
Also you cannot compare divorce and homesexuality. God does not like divorce but he allows divorce in case of sexual immorality.
I am not judging anybody. We are all sinners. But if us christians cannot stand for what is clearly stated in the Bible then we are lying to ourselves.
Obama is clearly choosing the votes against his christian believes.

Speaking of salvation :Cor 6:9-11.

Not all Christian denominations preach that homosexuality is a sin. He may not be going against his personal beliefs.

 

[CoilyFields]

I think you have hit the heart of the matter. Supporting their rights under freedom of religon does not equal the belief that their personal decision is morally right. If you see them as two separate issues then you are not a christian. You can believe that something is morally wrong but make the decsion not to deprive someone else the ability to make that decision for themselves.

I get what you're saying but if that was always the case how are we then the "salt" of the earth. If you don't vote according to the word of God, how do you vote? Becuase wouldn't that then be promoting an "anything goes" society? Do you not believe there should be rules? Should I, as a Christian, vote for abortion? becuase somebody else thinks its right even if I dont? Should I vote for porn to be shown in school in sex education because someone else thinks its morally ok? I Know these are random examples but shouldn't my first priority be to preserve and advance the word of God?

I do not believe that legalizing gay marriage will cause more people to be gay. I dont oppose it because of Healthcare issues or taxes. It is wrong because GOD instituted marriage between one man and one woman. And since America grants us the right to lend our influence on certain decisions...why wouldnt I vote according to my conscience (which is based on the word of God)...because they surely will.

 

[dicapr]

I get what you're saying but if that was always the case how are we then the "salt" of the earth. If you don't vote according to the word of God, how do you vote? Becuase wouldn't that then be promoting an "anything goes" society? Do you not believe there should be rules? Should I, as a Christian, vote for abortion? becuase somebody else thinks its right even if I dont? Should I vote for porn to be shown in school in sex education because someone else thinks its morally ok? I Know these are random examples but shouldn't my first priority be to preserve and advance the word of God?

I do not believe that legalizing gay marriage will cause more people to be gay. I dont oppose it because of Healthcare issues or taxes. It is wrong because GOD instituted marriage between one man and one woman. And since America grants us the right to lend our influence on certain decisions...why wouldnt I vote according to my conscience (which is based on the word of God)...because they surely will.

Freedom to practice your religion means that everyone should have that same right. I don't want someone else enforcing their religous beliefs on me just because they are the majority-why would I do it to someone else? Marriage in this debate is not the same marriage as outlined in the bible. They are asking for legal recognition of a partnership and the legal benefits that go along with it. Should we deny all who do not adhere to Christianity, Judism, or Islam marriage in this country because they are not entering a convinent of the same God we all worship? I actually like the European model. Civil ceremonies for everyone with those who wish to have a religious ceremony doing so separate from the church.

I do take a moral stand in my personal life and my church. I don't think it is my job to force anyone to live the life I have been called to. Conversion is my job as a Chrisitian, not enforcer.

 

[lilanie]

Why not call it something else other than marriage? I agree they should get benefits and life insurance etc. with their partners. They should be afforded every single RIGHT we have...but men go to the men's restroom and women go to theirs...and the unisex family restroom is "one-at-a-time." We pretend that marriage is not between two fo the opposite sex. It's a different thing. I'm for rights...but not the right to infringe upon something else that is socially and morally established since time immemorial. Call it something else and make it your own where there is no confusion. I want folks to come up with a specialized term for it. Our catholic church will never ordain female priests and neither will it "marry" two of the same sex. Does that mean we agree with discrimination against those who want to be "priests" and those who want legal protection while living with their partners of the same sex? No, but you can't do that here...find your rightful space. But don't infringe upon what we teach in our church. Well, that's my take on it and I'm pretty darned liberal.

That is how I feel... It's like Girls in Boy Scouts/Boys in Girl Scouts/White Women being counted as minorities...

Enough is enough!

Just because life will be better for me if i walked around saying I'm white (obviously couldn't pull that mess in person) ~ doesn't mean I should... It means I should let God fight my battles, and if it is HIS will that I get my way, then I get my way... If not, I can sit down somewhere and shutup.

And dont start that gay is just like black foolishness ~ unless you're the actress from Imitation of Life, if you are gay, no one has to know you are (if your life depends on it) a mile away. Not the same for me.

 

[Shimmie]

That is how I feel... It's like Girls in Boy Scouts/Boys in Girl Scouts/White Women being counted as minorities...

Enough is enough!

Just because life will be better for me if i walked around saying I'm white (obviously couldn't pull that mess in person) ~ doesn't mean I should...


It means I should let God fight my battles, and if it is HIS will that I get my way, then I get my way... If not, I can sit down somewhere and shutup.

And dont start that gay is just like black foolishness

~ unless you're the actress from Imitation of Life, if you are gay, no one has to know you are (if your life depends on it) a mile away.

Not the same for me.

lilanie...

I was just headed downstairs to begin my laudrry 'early' to free up my weekend. But Lady, I had to stop.... I mean STOP and reply to your post and thank you for speaking the truth.

Prostituting the Black experience by calling the gay agenda equal to it... what an insult! There have been white gays all the way back in time, who were well known and yet they prospered and no one called them out or even cared.

They flourished in the fashion world, in the Arts, the movie industry and folks loved and respected and supported them for white could do no wrong. However Blacks were still stepped and walked upon and were given the crumbs that fell from their mouths rather than due honour and respect.

No one burned them at the stake as they did Blacks nor hung them as 'strange fruit' swinging from branches of trees.

Someone shared in an earlier post (in one of these threads) that Blacks are helping other groups and not themselves. And it's only to further push Blacks back in the back. No matter how far the gay agenda may go (and it won't be but so far), it will never be to the advantage nor the advancement of African Americans.

I've had it with gays 'pimping' and downplaying the Black experience. It's beyond insulting.

I find it so very interesting that they haven't compared their 'suffering' to that of the Jewish people who lost their lives during the Holocaust. At least I haven't heard nor read them of them 'pimping' that experience as they have been pimping ours. All I hear is how they compare to Blacks and I will not be downgraded as such.

 

[NaturallySweet73]

@Choisie thats not true. You're not God you can't really determine salvation. I say that with love btw. There are plenty of Christians who support things that Jesus does not.
For instance... divorce... gluttony... etc.
We can't run around saying who's a Christian and who is not... Lets leave that to our savior to decide. The weight of that decision is quite heavy and I'm sure none of us would REALLY want to carry it. I believe a cross was about 300 lbs back then...

I have not gotten to the rest of this thread so far, but i have to respond. And just keep in mind I say this in love, but...............Matthew 7:16 says that by a persons fruits we shall know them. So, Obama can say that he is a Christian all day but his fruit say something else.

How does this man, who says that he is a believer in the Savior, have a 100% voting record for Planned Parenthood (the enemy of the black community I might add) when a senator in Illinois.

That was enough for me to determine what team he was batting for. I'm not shocked at his new turn at all either!!!! 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To support murder is clearly a sin!

 

[Shimmie]

I have not gotten to the rest of this thread so far, but i have to respond. And just keep in mind I say this in love, but................

Matthew 7:16 says that by a persons fruits we shall know them. So, Obama can say that he is a Christian all day but his fruit say something else.

How does this man, who says that he is a believer in the Savior, have a 100% voting record for Planned Parenthood (the enemy of the black community I might add) when a senator in Illinois.

That was enough for me to determine what team he was batting for. I'm not shocked at his new turn at all either!!!! 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. To support murder is clearly a sin!