can you or can you not lose your salvation?

[makeupgirl]

So now here is my commentary.

No, you cannot lose your salvation.

Why? Born again believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Why would God indwell his Spirit in us, if he knew we would lose it?

Why did Paul say that "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)

Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Romans 8:9-11, 15-17, 28-30

9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.g And by him we cry, “Abba,h Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,j whok have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

When you have a relationship with Christ, it's forever. We cannot lose that and if you do lose it, then you never had it to begin with. We can only examine ourselves when our salvation is being questioned, even that of ourselves. Ask yourself this, is Satan planted those doubts in you? or are you seriously unsure?

Then ask youself this, do you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, was buried, and rosed again? Do you believe that Jesus is God? Do you believe that he became flesh to die for us? Did you confess that Jesus is Lord, confess that you are a sinner in need of forgiveness? Did you ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior? If the answer is yes, then congrats you are a believer in Christ. You are apart of the Body/the Bride of Christ. You cannot lose your salvation, because you have a relationship with Christ.

We can get out of fellowship but we cannot lose our sonship. We have 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" He knew we was going to still mess up. Even though we are no longer sinners, we still have that sinful nature in us until either we die or until we're raptured. We not perfect as humans, we're only perfect in Christ. There is no such thing as a good person or a righteous person. Romans 3:23 said for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and in the same chapter it also says that there is none righteous, no not one.

So if anyone thinks that we can literally hold on to our salvation by our works? Then you are falling for one of Satan's tactics.

Like all doctrines out there, "the once saved, always saved" doctrine has taken one verse and stuff was added so that man took credit for it but say it was in the will of God. God's word is final. He said we could never lose our relationship with him. He spoke the word into existance. He inspired men (that he has chosen) to write his word. He is God all by himself, he didn't need man to write a doctrine to confirm what was already written in the infallible word of God.

Point is, no you cannot lose your salvation once you have accepted Christ into your life as Savior and Lord. You have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which is permanant, forever, eternal, everlasting, etc. If you mess up, own it, confess it to God and then move on. He remembers it no more after confession. Not to say that we should keep doing what you're doing. No, you'll grieve the Holy Spirit when you refuse to listen to him. He leads and guide our footsteps and I'm sure, if you are in Christ, you are feeling a conviction when you have sinned against God. If you have a problem with a recurring vice such as cussing and no matter how much you confess that you're sorry you keep doing it, then ask him for help. Tell him that you're struggling and you need help. Do not think you can live your life in Christ on your own.

Now, I'm going back to work and drink some more Mtn Dew code red.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

For you ladies that believe in once saved always saved. Please explain what 1 Timothy 4:1 tells you. If you walk with Christ and live according to His will then yes but what about 1 Timothy 4:1.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Tim 4:1

Now these people were once apart of the faith, they were once saved had departed and gave into deception.

 

[makeupgirl]

This commentary on 1 Tim 4:1 from this site http://bible.cc/1_timothy/4-1.htm

Now the Spirit - Evidently the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of inspiration. It is not quite certain, from this passage, whether the apostle means to say that this was a revelation "then" made to him, or whether it was a well-understood thing as taught by the Holy Spirit. He himself elsewhere refers to this same prophecy, and John also more than once mentions it; compare 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 John 2:18; Revelation 20:1-15. From 2 Thessalonians 2:5, it would seem that this was a truth which had before been communicated to the apostle Paul, and that he had dwelt on it when he preached the gospel in Thessalonica. There is no improbability, however, in the supposition that so important a subject was communicated directly by the Holy Spirit to others of the apostles.
Speaketh expressly - In express words, ῥητῶς rētōs. It was not by mere hints, and symbols, and shadowy images of the future; it was in an open and plain manner - in so many words. The object of this statement seems to be to call the attention of Timothy to it in an emphatic manner, and to show the importance of attending to it.
That in the latter times - Under the last dispensation, during which the affairs of the world would close; see the notes on Hebrews 1:2. It does not mean that this would occur "just before" the end of the world, but that it would take place during "that last dispensation," and that the end of the world would not happen until this should take place; see the notes on 2 Thessalonians 2:3.
Some shall depart from the faith - The Greek word here - ἀποστήσονται apostēsontai - is that from which we have derived the word "apostatize," and would be properly so rendered here. The meaning is, that they would "apostatize" from the belief of the truths of the gospel. It does not mean that, as individuals, they would have been true Christians; but that there would be a departure from the great doctrines which constitute the Christian faith. The ways in which they would do this are immediately specified, showing what the apostle meant here by departing from the faith. They would give heed to seducing spirits, to the doctrines of devils, etc. The use of the word "some," here τινες tines - does not imply that the number would be small. The meaning is, that "certain persons" would thus depart, or that "there would be" an apostasy of the kind here mentioned, in the last days. From the parallel passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it would seem that this was to be an extensive apostasy.
Giving heed to seducing spirits - Rather than to the Spirit of God. It would be a part of their system to yield to those spirits that led astray. The spirits here referred to are any that cause to err, and the most obvious and natural construction is to refer it to the agency of fallen spirits. Though it "may" apply to false teachers, yet, if so, it is rather to them as under the influence of evil spirits. This may be applied, so far as the phraseology is concerned, to "any" false teaching; but it is evident that the apostle had a specific apostasy in view - some great "system" that would greatly corrupt the Christian faith; and the words here should be interpreted with reference to that. It is true that people in all ages are prone to give heed to seducing spirits; but the thing referred to here is some grand apostasy, in which the characteristics would be manifested, and the doctrines held, which the apostle proceeds immediately to specify; compare 1 John 4:1.

 

[makeupgirl]

cont'

And doctrines of devils - Greek, "Teachings of demons - διδασκαλίαις δαιμωνίων didaskaliais daimōniōn. This may either mean teachings "respecting" demons, or teachings "by" demons. The particular sense must be determined by the connection. Ambiguity of this kind in the construction of words, where one is in the genitive case, is not uncommon; compare John 15:9-10; John 21:15. Instances of the construction where the genitive denotes the "object," and should be translated "concerning," occur in Matthew 9:25; "The gospel of the kingdom," i. e., concerning the kingdom; Matthew 10:1; "Power of unclean spirits," i. e., over or concerning unclean spirits; so, also, Acts 4:9; Romans 16:15; 2 Corinthians 1:5; Ephesians 3:1; Revelation 2:13. Instances of construction where the genitive denotes the "agent," occur in the following places: Luke 1:69, "A horn of salvation," i. e., a horn which produces or causes salvation; John 6:28; Romans 3:22; 2 Corinthians 4:10; Ephesians 4:18; Colossians 2:11. Whether the phrase here means that, in the apostasy, they would give heed to doctrines "respecting" demons, or to doctrines which demons "taught," cannot, it seems to me, be determined with certainty. If the previous phrase, however, means that they would embrace doctrines taught by evil spirits, it can hardly be supposed that the apostle would immediately repeat the same idea in another form; and then the sense would be, that one characteristic of the time referred to would be the prevalent teaching "respecting" demons. They would "give heed to," or embrace, some special views respecting demons. The word here rendered "devils" is δαιμονία daimonia - "demons." This word, among the Greeks, denoted the following things:

(1) A god or goddess, spoken of the pagan gods; compare in New Testament, Acts 17:18.

(2) a divine being, where no particular one was specified, the agent or author of good or evil fortune; of death, fate, etc. In this sense it is often used in Homer.

(3) the souls of people of the golden age, which dwelt unobserved upon the earth to regard the actions of men, and to defend them - tutelary divinities, or geniuses - like that which Socrates regarded as his constant attendant. Xen. Mem. 4. 8. 1. 5; Apol. Soc. 4. See "Passow."

(4) to this may be added the common use in the New Testament, where the word denotes a demon in the Jewish sense - a bad spirit, subject to Satan, and under his control; one of the host of fallen angels - commonly, but not very properly rendered "devil" or "devils." These spirits were supposed to wander in desolate places, Matthew 12:43; compare Isaiah 13:21; Isaiah 34:14; or they dwell in the air, Ephesians 2:2. They were regarded as hostile to mankind, John 8:44; as able to utter pagan oracles, Acts 16:17; as lurking in the idols of the pagan, 1 Corinthians 10:20; Revelation 9:20. They are spoken of as the authors of evil, James 2:19; compare Ephesians 6:12, and as having the power of taking "possession" of a person, of producing diseases, or of causing mania, as in the case of the demoniacs, Luke 4:33; Luke 8:27; Matthew 17:18; Mark 7:29-30; and often elsewhere. The doctrine, therefore, which the apostle predicted would prevail, might, "so far as the word used is concerned," be either of the following:

(1) Accordance with the prevalent notions of the pagan respecting false gods; or a falling into idolatry similar to that taught in the Grecian mythology. It can hardly be supposed, however, that he designed to say that the common notions of the pagan would prevail in the Christian church, or that the worship of the pagan gods "as such" would be set up there.

(2) an accordance with the Jewish views respecting demoniacal possessions and the power of exorcising them. If this view should extensively prevail in the Christian church, it would be in accordance with the language of the prediction.

(3) accordance with the prevalent pagan notions respecting the departed spirits of the good and the great, who were exalted to the rank of demi-gods, and who, though invisible, were supposed still to exert an important influence in favor of mankind. To these beings, the pagan rendered extraordinary homage. They regarded them as demi-gods. They supposed that they took a deep interest in human affairs. They invoked their aid. They set apart days in honor of them. They offered sacrifices, and performed rites and ceremonies to propitiate their favor. They were regarded as a sort of mediators or intercessors between man and the superior divinities. If these things are found anywhere in the Christian church, they may be regarded as a fulfillment of this prediction, for they were not of a nature to be foreseen by any human sagacity. Now it so happens, that they are in fact found in the Papal communion, and in a way that corresponds fairly to the meaning of the phrase, as it would have been understood in the time of the apostle.

There is, "first," the worship of the virgin and of the saints, or the extraordinary honors rendered to them - corresponding almost entirely with the reverence paid by the pagan to the spirits of heroes or to demi-gods. The saints are supposed to have extraordinary power with God, and their aid is implored as intercessors. The virgin Mary is invoked as "the mother of God," and as having power still to command her Son. The Papists do not, indeed, offer the same homage to the saints which they do to God, but they ask their aid; they offer prayer to them. The following extracts from the catechism of Dr. James Butler, approved and recommended by Dr. Kenrick, "Bishop of Philadelphia," expresses the general views of Roman Catholics on this subject. "Question: How do Catholics distinguish between the honor they give to God, and the honor they give to the saints, when they pray to God and the saints?

 

[CelineB]

This is a very heated topic for everyone but the answer belongs to God. Please ask him and he will answer.

This is what He told me:

-Salavation is only at the end not now. What we call " saved" is when God "touched or called " us to know the Truth. When you respond to this call and what you do with this Thruth will determine if you will be saved or not.

Christians say they are saved but in thruth they are not. The are choosen, they are called like Jesus called is disciples. But Salvation is at the end.
There is however a big difference between "called" people and worldly people.
not all called people will make it at the end.
Only those who overcome and endure and "self die" MIGHT make it.

-Not All christians who confessed the name of Jesus will have eternal life.

-You are not saved if you continue Willfully sinning after receiving the knowledge of Truth

-Nobody knows if they are saved or not; only He knows.

-We need to endure untill the end to be SAVEd.

-We need to constantly die from flesh untill the end to be saved.

-God knows us through our hearts.

-If we have a faithful heart in God through Jesus and constantly pursue salvation, God will help us through this process.

ALL THE ABOVES ARE ONLY POSSIBLE THROUGH GRACE GIVEN BY GOD.

Matt 24: 13 " But he that ENDURE unto the end the same shall be saved"
2 Tim 2:12 " If we endure, we will also reign with Him, If we disown him, he will also disown us"

Luke 14:24 The parable of the great Banquet " I tell you, not one of these men who were invited will get a taste of my banquet"


The devil is a LIAR. He is telling christians that all they have to do is confess the name of Jesus and have salvation while they are still following the flesh.
Jesus brings savaltion but we are still commanded to carry out cross and follow HIM. Following Jesus is not easy but it can be done. It is done through Grace every day of the rest of our lifes. It does not mean we are not sinning but HIS GRACE helps us to overcome sin, sin does not control us anymore, we are in charge through Jesus and the Holy spirit.

Please don't ignore all these verses that are posted in this thread. We cannot just ignore that God SAYS Rev3:5 "HE who OVERCOME will be clothed in white garments"

OR

" Sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery...will not inherit the kingdom of God"

Thanks,
C

 

[CelineB]

This is truly a hot topic. What do I believe?

Once saved always saved.


-The Word often talks about not inheriting the kingdom due to different sinful acts...

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)

This is not referring to heaven or eternal life as the kingdom of God, but to the life we live here on earth. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

CoilyFields,

Can you explain to me how this passage is not referring heaven or Eternel Life as kingdom of God but to the life we live on earth?

Thanks,
C

 

[loolalooh]

This is a very heated topic for everyone but the answer belongs to God. Please ask him and he will answer.

This is what He told me:

-Salavation is only at the end not now. What we call " saved" is when God "touched or called " us to know the Truth. When you respond to this call and what you do with this Thruth will determine if you will be saved or not.

Christians say they are saved but in thruth they are not. The are choosen, they are called like Jesus called is disciples. But Salvation is at the end.
There is however a big difference between "called" people and worldly people.
not all called people will make it at the end.
Only those who overcome and endure and "self die" MIGHT make it.

-Not All christians who confessed the name of Jesus will have eternal life.

-You are not saved if you continue Willfully sinning after receiving the knowledge of Truth

-Nobody knows if they are saved or not; only He knows.

-We need to endure untill the end to be SAVEd.

-We need to constantly die from flesh untill the end to be saved.

-God knows us through our hearts.

-If we have a faithful heart in God through Jesus and constantly pursue salvation, God will help us through this process.

ALL THE ABOVES ARE ONLY POSSIBLE THROUGH GRACE GIVEN BY GOD.

Matt 24: 13 " But he that ENDURE unto the end the same shall be saved"
2 Tim 2:12 " If we endure, we will also reign with Him, If we disown him, he will also disown us"

Luke 14:24 The parable of the great Banquet " I tell you, not one of these men who were invited will get a taste of my banquet"


The devil is a LIAR. He is telling christians that all they have to do is confess the name of Jesus and have salvation while they are still following the flesh.
Jesus brings savaltion but we are still commanded to carry out cross and follow HIM. Following Jesus is not easy but it can be done. It is done through Grace every day of the rest of our lifes. It does not mean we are not sinning but HIS GRACE helps us to overcome sin, sin does not control us anymore, we are in charge through Jesus and the Holy spirit.

Please don't ignore all these verses that are posted in this thread. We cannot just ignore that God SAYS Rev3:5 "HE who OVERCOME will be clothed in white garments"

OR

" Sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery...will not inherit the kingdom of God"

Thanks,
C

I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

 

[loolalooh]

Matthew 7:21-23
New King James Version (NKJV)
I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[Rainbow Dash]

^^^This scripture right here shakes me.

These are not the words I want to hear.

Lord help me stay close to you and stay in your will.

 

[loolalooh]

^^^This scripture right here shakes me.

These are not the words I want to hear.

Lord help me stay close to you and stay in your will.

I know right. It sends shivers down my spine.

 

[loolalooh]

Luke 9......

23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it.

 

[makeupgirl]

This is a very heated topic for everyone but the answer belongs to God. Please ask him and he will answer.

This is what He told me:

-Salavation is only at the end not now. What we call " saved" is when God "touched or called " us to know the Truth. When you respond to this call and what you do with this Thruth will determine if you will be saved or not.

Christians say they are saved but in thruth they are not. The are choosen, they are called like Jesus called is disciples. But Salvation is at the end.
There is however a big difference between "called" people and worldly people.
not all called people will make it at the end.
Only those who overcome and endure and "self die" MIGHT make it.

-Not All christians who confessed the name of Jesus will have eternal life.

-You are not saved if you continue Willfully sinning after receiving the knowledge of Truth

-Nobody knows if they are saved or not; only He knows.

-We need to endure untill the end to be SAVEd.

-We need to constantly die from flesh untill the end to be saved.

-God knows us through our hearts.

-If we have a faithful heart in God through Jesus and constantly pursue salvation, God will help us through this process.

ALL THE ABOVES ARE ONLY POSSIBLE THROUGH GRACE GIVEN BY GOD.

Matt 24: 13 " But he that ENDURE unto the end the same shall be saved"
2 Tim 2:12 " If we endure, we will also reign with Him, If we disown him, he will also disown us"

Luke 14:24 The parable of the great Banquet " I tell you, not one of these men who were invited will get a taste of my banquet"


The devil is a LIAR. He is telling christians that all they have to do is confess the name of Jesus and have salvation while they are still following the flesh.
Jesus brings savaltion but we are still commanded to carry out cross and follow HIM. Following Jesus is not easy but it can be done. It is done through Grace every day of the rest of our lifes. It does not mean we are not sinning but HIS GRACE helps us to overcome sin, sin does not control us anymore, we are in charge through Jesus and the Holy spirit.

Please don't ignore all these verses that are posted in this thread. We cannot just ignore that God SAYS Rev3:5 "HE who OVERCOME will be clothed in white garments"

OR

" Sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery...will not inherit the kingdom of God"

Thanks,
C

So, please show the scriptures that state that Salvation will be at the end. Because this is what Paul says in

Romans 10:9-10
"9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son; that whosoever believeth in him, shall not perish but have everlasting life"

John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me."

Today is the day of salvation, now is the acceptable time. We're in the dispensation of grace as of now. IF our salvation is at the end, then why does Jesus instructs us to go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit? If our salvation is at the end, then why did Jesus promised and sent us the comforter (the Holy Spirit) after his accession back to heaven? If our salvation is at the end, why do those that believe in him now have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Remember, Satan knows his time is almost up and dude wants to send as many people with him to that lake of fire. He can also disguises himself as the angel of light according to 2 Corinthians 11:14 KJV (And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.) Dude is a trickster and got some serious issues.

We're saved by grace. Salvation is a free gift. I personally don't know how to work to get saved because Im not a good person. There is no such thing as a righteous person according to Romans 3:10"there is none righteous, no not one" Nobody but Jesus is righteous, because he was sinless.

If anything those who have claim to have done this or that in the name of Jesus but does not have a relationship with him; he will say "depart from me, I never knew you" (man that is going to be a sad day for them) He said this himself in Matt 7:21-23. Why he going to turn them away? because they didn't do what he asked them to do. Believe in me. That's all he ask. He didn't say work this or that. Give this or that. Taste this or that. He said believe. He that believeth on me. Keyword is believe. How does one believe? It's by faith.

Ok breaky over...

 

[CoilyFields]

So, please show the scriptures that state that Salvation will be at the end. Because this is what Paul says in

Romans 10:9-10
"9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son; that whosoever believeth in him, shall not perish but have everlasting life"

John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me."

Today is the day of salvation, now is the acceptable time. We're in the dispensation of grace as of now. IF our salvation is at the end, then why does Jesus instructs us to go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit? If our salvation is at the end, then why did Jesus promised and sent us the comforter (the Holy Spirit) after his accession back to heaven? If our salvation is at the end, why do those that believe in him now have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Remember, Satan knows his time is almost up and dude wants to send as many people with him to that lake of fire. He can also disguises himself as the angel of light according to 2 Corinthians 11:14 KJV (And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.) Dude is a trickster and got some serious issues.

We're saved by grace. Salvation is a free gift. I personally don't know how to work to get saved because Im not a good person. There is no such thing as a righteous person according to Romans 3:10"there is none righteous, no not one" Nobody but Jesus is righteous, because he was sinless.

If anything those who have claim to have done this or that in the name of Jesus but does not have a relationship with him; he will say "depart from me, I never knew you" (man that is going to be a sad day for them) He said this himself in Matt 7:21-23. Why he going to turn them away? because they didn't do what he asked them to do. Believe in me. That's all he ask. He didn't say work this or that. Give this or that. Taste this or that. He said believe. He that believeth on me. Keyword is believe. How does one believe? It's by faith.

Ok breaky over...

^^^This! Salvation is not EARNED by our lack of sin.

We did not aquire it by works so Im at a loss as to why it is believed that we keep it by works?

In those last days when Jesus says depart from me because he never knew them...thats because they never really believed in their hearts. MAtthew 15:8 “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

 

[loolalooh]

^^^This! Salvation is not EARNED by our lack of sin.

We did not aquire it by works so Im at a loss as to why it is believed that we keep it by works?

In those last days when Jesus says depart from me because he never knew them...thats because they never really believed in their hearts. MAtthew 15:8 “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

It is not about doing works to keep salvation. I can't speak for others thoughts on this, but I posted earlier that because we have free will, we can choose to reject or even return this gift of salvation. The obvious example is the Christian who turns to atheism. The more complex example is the Christian who, not believing he/she has been made a new person, returns to sinning all willy nilly.

When I think "works to keep" salvation, I think depending on one's own ability to adhere to law rather than depending on Jesus to keep us from sinning.

Just because we were given a gift, does not mean we cannot return it. To accept the gift of salvation is to accept all that comes with it ... including breaking from the power of sin.

 

[makeupgirl]

^^^This! Salvation is not EARNED by our lack of sin.

We did not aquire it by works so Im at a loss as to why it is believed that we keep it by works?

In those last days when Jesus says depart from me because he never knew them...thats because they never really believed in their hearts. MAtthew 15:8 “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

It could be one or 2 things. Satan has planted that seed of doubt in the person to believe that they must work to get into heaven or the person has read a doctrine that makes sense to them vs. what the bible actually says.

Satan definitely at work and I pray that we as the body of Christ keep spreading his gospel.

 

[loolalooh]

Ladies, I've got to run. I'll be back later. To those who say "once saved, always saved":

The Scripture you have quoted underlines this: "Those who believe (i.e., truly believe), will be saved".

That's it. Where in Scripture does it say those who stop believing are still saved? Some have quoted Scripture suggesting otherwise.

I'll be back later ...

 

[loolalooh]

Also, Scripture please: Where does it define that depending on Jesus to keep us from sinning equates to "works"?

 

[CelineB]

^^^This! Salvation is not EARNED by our lack of sin.

We did not aquire it by works so Im at a loss as to why it is believed that we keep it by works?

In those last days when Jesus says depart from me because he never knew them...thats because they never really believed in their hearts. MAtthew 15:8 “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;

Nobody said salvation is by works. Faith without work is dead. We need grace to have salvation.
Many people say "I am saved" but how do they know that?
Only God knows. the works come by walking with Jesus every day for the rest of our lifes.
How do we even kow we truly have God's grace?
God told Paul that his grace is enough for him but he was still walking with Jesus everyday.

I said salvation is at end because:

-Many poeple who believe that they are saved will not enter the kindom of God.

-Some people who don't even hope will make it.

It is only at the end that we will know not now.

We all hope to make it.

Blessings

 

[LucieLoo12]

People always misunderstand these scriptures. My answers are in red

Romans 10:9-10
"9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

When Paul made this statement to the church, he made it because at that time it was alot of heavy persecution going on. People were being killed because they believed in Jesus. Paul was given them assurance and comfort letting them know they should never deny Christ because of the fear they had, but openly confess Christ. Not be afraid to afraid to say thet served Him. You have to research and study to show thyself approved and not to pick a few scriptures here and there and put it together. But line them up. The bible says "rightly dividing the truth", so that means the word can be "wrongly divided"

Paul just said this is in in couple of chapters before.

For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, (Romans 8:13). So was Paul lying? No. Paul wasnt just saying you just believe and you will make it. Paul knew a conversion had to take place.​

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son; that whosoever believeth in him, shall not perish but have everlasting life"

believe means to accept something as true. Not just know that Jesus exist but to accept and out into action the teachings of Christ. Accept means to undertake or take hold.Christ said "Bless them that curse you" "Love you enemies", "Be ye therefore perfect"...that means you believe his words AND are living them out, not just having the knowledge of something.

John 14:6
"I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me."

I dont know what this has to do with the topic, but its the word, so AMEN!

Today is the day of salvation, now is the acceptable time. We're in the dispensation of grace as of now. IF our salvation is at the end, then why does Jesus instructs us to go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit? If our salvation is at the end, then why did Jesus promised and sent us the comforter (the Holy Spirit) after his accession back to heaven? If our salvation is at the end, why do those that believe in him now have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
Salvation means to be saved from danger, peril, or difficulty. It is also parallel with the word redemption. I urge everyone to get a Keyword Study Bible because it give you the Greek and Hebrew defintion to all the words and in the context it is used in. For instance, the word hell has a few meanings. It one passage it may mean, the grave. It one it meant the actually place and the other it means distress. So its important to know what context these words is being using in. Salvation may mean to pulled from danger in one text, and the other it may be redemption (recovery of something). You must do line upon line...




We're saved by grace. Salvation is a free gift. I personally don't know how to work to get saved because Im not a good person. There is no such thing as a righteous person according to Romans 3:10"there is none righteous, no not one" Nobody but Jesus is righteous, because he was sinless.

Ok, the famous, saved by grace message.

Titus 2:11-12

11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


Grace comes to TEACH us to not sin, it does not give us an oppurtunity or reason to keep sinning. People always say, "we saved by grace, we saved by grace", with no understanding of that scripture. We are saved by grace, because as grace comes to us, it shows us how to be more like Christ and to live a clean life.


If anything those who have claim to have done this or that in the name of Jesus but does not have a relationship with him; he will say "depart from me, I never knew you" (man that is going to be a sad day for them) He said this himself in Matt 7:21-23. Why he going to turn them away? because they didn't do what he asked them to do. Believe in me. That's all he ask. He didn't say work this or that. Give this or that. Taste this or that. He said believe. He that believeth on me. Keyword is believe. How does one believe? It's by faith.

Ok the word "knew" means to be intimate with. It does not mean to have a knowledge of. 99% of us have heard of Jesus,but VERY few or intimate with Him. So He saying, they never became intimate with Him, never surrendered their will to Him, because if they would have, they would have been conformed to His image.

Ok breaky over...

 

[LucieLoo12]

I keep hearing people say "All you have to do is accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior", that is not biblical. You can not accept God, He has to accept you.

Repeatedly in the bible it speaks of us having to be accepted OF HIM..


2 Corinthians 5:9
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
Romans 14:18
For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Acts 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[Poohbear]

Also, Scripture please: Where does it define that depending on Jesus to keep us from sinning equates to "works"?

loolalooh

I haven't seen a scripture for your question.

However, I believe that we must depend on Jesus to save us from sin rather than depend on ourselves to stop sinning. Depending on ourselves to stop sinning, to sin less, or to do things to try to please God would be considered "works". Good "works" does not save us nor does it make us any more right with God. We can't earn salvation. Going in front of a church and saying you believe in Jesus now does not save you. Only faith in Jesus Christ can save us.

 

[Laela]

sidney ... I look forward to it....

I prayed about this thread last night and I believe God shared a word with me in a dream. I will try to post it later today.

 

[CelineB]

@loolalooh

I haven't seen a scripture for your question.

However, I believe that we must depend on Jesus to save us from sin rather than depend on ourselves to stop sinning. Depending on ourselves to stop sinning, to sin less, or to do things to try to please God would be considered "works". Good "works" does not save us nor does it make us any more right with God. We can't earn salvation. Going in front of a church and saying you believe in Jesus now does not save you. Only faith in Jesus Christ can save us.

Thanks,

This is what i call "walking with Jesus"

We can say we believe Him all we want but we need to let him take control of our life.
By giving Him control, something extraordinary happens:we start walking like him. We get less angry, we sin less, we have peace, we are less anxious, we feel more secured no matter the situation.

Some people will call the "works" I call it "walking with Jesus".

Blessings

 

[makeupgirl]

Jesus already saved us from sin on the cross. He just ask that people believe that he did.



It's impossible to just completely stop sinning, I mean, anything can happen within the next second that may cause one to get out of fellowship. Example: I was driving down the highway after church one day and the car in front of me suddenly slowed down to the point where I almost hit him. I cussed.

Did I mean too? No I didn't. It was an automatic response via my flesh.

I just owned it, confess it to the Lord and apologized for it. I didn't lose my salvation or my relationship/sonship with him. I was just briefly out of fellowship until I made things right with him.

I had a hormonalitude this morning and I was irritated at my cubemate, in my mind, I was cussing . Even though, I didn't verbally cussed, I acknowledged that I still sinned against God and asked forgiveness. I also prayed for help to yield to the Holy Spirit as he led and guide me because of what was going on with me. (im better now) but I didnt' lose my relationship with him or my sonship. I was out of fellowship until I made things right.

To me, if you're in Christ and you're able to admit your mistakes and rely on the Holy Spirit to get you back on track; that's growth. We're going to have those moments, where we're going to mess completely up. I know I mess up everyday. I still cuss, I still have a temper, I still have feelings that I shouldn't have towards others. That doesn't mean I'm not a Christian. I am a new creature in Christ, because I believe in him and according to his word that I am saved by the blood of Christ.

The thing of it is, I cannot nor do I have power to convince others that you cannot lose your salvation. None of us can convince one another, we should just continue to pray for one another as we continue to grow spiritually in Christ.

 

[loolalooh]

loolalooh

I haven't seen a scripture for your question.

However, I believe that we must depend on Jesus to save us from sin rather than depend on ourselves to stop sinning. Depending on ourselves to stop sinning, to sin less, or to do things to try to please God would be considered "works". Good "works" does not save us nor does it make us any more right with God. We can't earn salvation. Going in front of a church and saying you believe in Jesus now does not save you. Only faith in Jesus Christ can save us.

Thanks,

This is what i call "walking with Jesus"

We can say we believe Him all we want but we need to let him take control of our life.
By giving Him control, something extraordinary happens:we start walking like him. We get less angry, we sin less, we have peace, we are less anxious, we feel more secured no matter the situation.

Some people will call the "works" I call it "walking with Jesus".

Blessings

Thanks, ladies. I call it walking with Him too. The "works" I see discussed in Scripture is usually in reference to the Pharisees ... and even the Jews of the OT adhering to law (Galatians 2). Walking with Jesus coincides with being filled of the Holy Spirit. To imply that such a walk is works synonmous to that of the Pharisees/Jews is a dangerous thing...

 

[CoilyFields]

This is truly a hot topic. What do I believe?

Once saved always saved.


-The Word often talks about not inheriting the kingdom due to different sinful acts...

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)

This is not referring to heaven or eternal life as the kingdom of God, but to the life we live here on earth. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

@CoilyFields,

Can you explain to me how this passage is not referring heaven or Eternel Life as kingdom of God but to the life we live on earth?

Thanks,
C

To answer your question:

When the Bible speaks about inheriting the kingdom concerning sinners...it is talking about eternal life (because that is all it can refer to concerning them). But when it talks to Christians depending on the context it is speaking about either here on earth or eternal life (as we have benefits of being an heir here on earth as well as in heaven).

1. Romans 14:17 talks about not offending (becoming a stumblingblock) to our brothers/sisters by eating meat that may have been offered to idols. He says that the Kingdom of God is not actually about food and drink but is a state of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. The example is talking about this earthly life concerning meat and drink and it makes sense that it also is referring to having the kingdom of God here on earth. The below scripture supports having the kingdom of God present now (not just in heaven).
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


On a different note
I think the issue is that there are a lot of scriptures that talk about salvation and eternal life, and inheriting the kingdom etc. And if you're not careful they will seem to contradict themselves (as each side in this thread has used scripture to back their belief). It is necessary to start from the right basis to correctly interpret seemingly contradictory scriptures.

I am starting from the premis:

1. I was born in sin
(Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.)

2. Due to my sinful state I am destined for death (physical and eternal seperation from God) Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death;

3. God made a way for me to escape the eternal consequences of my sins by having Jesus Christ die in my place. Romans 6:23 but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

4. But this escape is not automatic to humans. I have to recieve this gift. How do I recieve it?
JOhn 3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Acts 16:30-31 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

5. Is that all I have to do? Yes, (other than the outward show of baptism that does not save us but we do because we are saved). Because our right standing with God is not a result of our own righteousness but of Jesus' righteousness.

Romans 5:21 So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God's wonderful grace rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Ephesians 2:8-9 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

If we begin from these scriptures about salvation and our need for it...then we interpret the others differntly.
Enduring until the end, inheriting the kingdom etc. will be interpreted in light of the security of salvation.

Many people shy away from believing that once saved, always saved because they falsely think that gives them free reign to sin without consequences. This is not so. Salvation witholds the ultimate penalty of sin (eternal seperation from God) but it does not withold the earthly consequences of our sins.
Gal 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap

After we recieve salvation God expects us to do some work. Sanctification/holiness and righteous living/works should follow. It is our daily job to put our bodies under subjection and conform to the image of Christ with the aid of the Holy Ghost. But the salvation/justification has already taken place and done by God through Jesus Christ, on our behalf.
Also, if we do not refrain from sin because we are afraid of going to hell at any moment, that would mean that we are tied to God in fear. Fear that my sin will eliminate my salvation. But God wants us to be tied to him in love. We love him so much that we do not want to sin against him.
1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love
(Its like being married. You dont want your husband to be with you because you have threatened his life and he thinks if he ever messes up that you will kill him. You want him to love you so much that it will drive him to do right by you. Knowing that even if he messes up your love will overcome it. 1 Peter 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. How much greater is the love of God toward us!! It covers sins past, present, and future!)


The Bible CANNOT say that we are saved by works AND we are saved by grace only. One has to be right and the other wrong. We must each seek the truth. Be guided by the Holy Ghost.


ETA: When some referred to "not sinning" or "sinning less" to recieve salvation, that is what I classify as "works". Doing something to recieve it other than believing (faith).

 

[LucieLoo12]

I am starting from the premis:

1. I was born in sin
(Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.)

.

Thats why we have to be born again...
John 3:1-7
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[Poohbear]

Thanks, ladies. I call it walking with Him too. The "works" I see discussed in Scripture is usually in reference to the Pharisees ... and even the Jews of the OT adhering to law (Galatians 2). Walking with Jesus coincides with being filled of the Holy Spirit. To imply that such a walk is works synonmous to that of the Pharisees/Jews is a dangerous thing...

Your post reminded me of how the Pharisees tried to call out Jesus and the disciples for working on the Sabbath Day in the corn fields. The Pharisees tried to say what they did was not lawful, in other words, they were sinning and going against the commandments of God.

Then Jesus said this powerful statement in Mark 2:25-28:

Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[CoilyFields]

Thats why we have to be born again...
John 3:1-7
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

We agree on that! Not sure if we differ in what that means? lol. Once you are born again you do not have to keep being reborn everytime you sin, willfully or unwillfully. Once saved...

This is a good discussion. I truly love my sisters in Christ! Im about to be MIA for a while but I hope that we have all grown in some way from this sharpening of iron and that we all continue to pray for HIS true understanding even as we believe we already have it lol! Continue ladies...

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Well, I must say that this discussion has strenghtened me to continue to walk closely with Christ and pay attention to His Word. Less me and more Him

Iron really does sharpen iron. I believe that we all have learned more about what it means to walk with Christ and what salvation really entails.

I am thankful for all my e-sisters.

This was really like a bible study, just online.

Have a great weekend!!