StarScream35
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know the true answer to this? It's hotly debated but what's the real answer. Anyone else ponders this?
can you or can you not lose your salvation?
- Thread starter StarScream35
- Start date
LucieLoo12
Well-Known Member
Yes you can loose it. There is a doctrine "once saved always saved", but its not biblical, here are some scriptures.
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Ezekiel 33:18
18When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Jude:
5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God
I Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Just a few scriptures
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Ezekiel 33:18
18When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Jude:
5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God
I Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Just a few scriptures
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blazingthru
Well-Known Member
yes there are like so many scriptures that I could not list them all. here are a few. The main topic is IF. God will almost do anything for us IF we follow him. he made many promises but they began with IF.
No one can take your salavation but you certainly can lose it. So you need to reaffirm you faith in God daily. its a daily thing not a once in a lifetime.
Ezekiel 33:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13 When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die.
Revelation 3:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
1 John 1:7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 2:24 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Hebrews 10:38 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
John 15:6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
John 8:51 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
Romans 11:22 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
2 Peter 1:10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
Hebrews 3:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
2 Timothy 2:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we [a]deny Him, He also will deny us;
Hebrews 10:26 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Christ or Judgment
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
1 John 2:15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Do Not Love the World
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
John 15:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 You are My friends if you do what I command you.
Romans 8:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you [a]must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live
No one can take your salavation but you certainly can lose it. So you need to reaffirm you faith in God daily. its a daily thing not a once in a lifetime.
Ezekiel 33:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13 When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die.
Revelation 3:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
1 John 1:7 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 2:24 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Hebrews 10:38 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH;
AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
John 15:6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
John 8:51 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
51 Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
Romans 11:22 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
2 Peter 1:10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble;
Hebrews 3:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
2 Timothy 2:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we [a]deny Him, He also will deny us;
Hebrews 10:26 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Christ or Judgment
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
1 John 2:15 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Do Not Love the World
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
John 15:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 You are My friends if you do what I command you.
Romans 8:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you [a]must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live
sidney
New Member
Great question. I do not know the answer to this question but I have thought about it a lot and open to what anyone has anything to share. This is the scripture that I ponder about...being blotted out of the book of life...
Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels
LucieLoo12
Well-Known Member
But there is a condition, we have to OVERCOME. Overcome what? The world, ourselves, our desires, our flesh....
aribell
formerly nicola.kirwan
I think the question is whether or not someone will endure through the end. I can't say, but I can say that God tells us clearly who will not enter into the Kingdom (murderers, adulterers, fornicators, envious, idolatrous, etc. 1 Cor. 6:9)...so even if we believe ourselves to be "saved" it doesn't mean that whatever we do or however we live that we'll get in at the end.
LucieLoo12
Well-Known Member
When I was saying endure, Im not jus talking about someone just living life until they die. Endure means to suffer through, and tolerate. When you are truly serving God you will have to go through many things in this life. Alot of people give up because they can't handle the temptation, trials and tests. The OP asked can we loose our salvation, so she is speaking of someone of who has began the process of santification/salvation. If we endure this process will we make it, because through this process we will be cleansed from those things that are not of God.
ETA:Ive have met people who have been cleansed from certain things but go snared again. Thats why Paul says be not entangled again in the yoke of bondage. You can become bound again. Thats why we have to stay free and endure this walk
ETA:Ive have met people who have been cleansed from certain things but go snared again. Thats why Paul says be not entangled again in the yoke of bondage. You can become bound again. Thats why we have to stay free and endure this walk
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loolalooh
Well-Known Member
This is very controversial topic. Some people believe that once saved, always saved. They base it on this Scripture:
Others believe that if the person does not receive eternal life, then the person wasn't really "saved" to begin with.
Which camp am I in? I agree with the ladies above that one CAN lose one's salvation. If we look deeper into John 3:16, we see that it says "those who believe" will have eternal life. One can CHOOSE to believe today, but walk away from it all tomorrow. One can be saved today, but not be saved tomorrow. This is further reinforced by the Scripture Alicialynn86 provided: "Those who endure to end will be saved (Matthew 24:13)". You have to endure to the end. Additionally, we can look at:
This Scripture has been interpreted different ways, but I'm inclined to interpret it this way: a person who was once saved and has now fallen away. Hence, the person lost his/her salvation.
Others believe that if the person does not receive eternal life, then the person wasn't really "saved" to begin with.
Which camp am I in? I agree with the ladies above that one CAN lose one's salvation. If we look deeper into John 3:16, we see that it says "those who believe" will have eternal life. One can CHOOSE to believe today, but walk away from it all tomorrow. One can be saved today, but not be saved tomorrow. This is further reinforced by the Scripture Alicialynn86 provided: "Those who endure to end will be saved (Matthew 24:13)". You have to endure to the end. Additionally, we can look at:
This Scripture has been interpreted different ways, but I'm inclined to interpret it this way: a person who was once saved and has now fallen away. Hence, the person lost his/her salvation.
^^^ Hebrews 6:7-8
" Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned"
" Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned"
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
I believe you can lose your salvation if you go back to your old belief of trying to rely on yourself and own good works rather than Christ alone for salvation:
Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
StarScream35
Well-Known Member
Interesting answers and I have heard both sides of the aruguments. I'm not sure what to believe. I have read the scriptures and everything is up for interpretation. Sometimes I find myself using the once saved always saved thing as a crutch to commit sin and this is what I want to avoid doing. It's an easy place to get into especially when you feel like you are missing out on things because of being a Christian.
Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
Brighteyes35 - The bolded was me before the truth was revealed to me. It was miserable to think that I was once saved always saved and that it was "okay" to commit sin. Do not listen to the world or to the false doctrines that people are teaching these days. They want you to feel guilty of sin that Christ took the punishment for on the cross. They want you to rely on the "church" for their self glorification. You must realize the law of death and how there is no hope in trying to "save" yourself physically by trying to do good works. As long as we live on this earth, we are going to sin. But the catch is that our physical actions have no bearing on our spiritual salvation. Once you see error in your belief, pray that the Holy Spirit reveal to you the truth of his Word.
LucieLoo12
Well-Known Member
@BrightEyes35
Think of it like this.
Say you had a husband and yall been married for like 10 years. When yall first got married, he was soooo sweet. he cooked for you, complimented you,spent time with you etc. He was the best husband ever! Well down the road, he cheats on you, beats on you, spits on you, throws things at you, curses at you. He keeps doing it over and over and wont stop. You asked him to stop, but he wont.And you say "I want a divorce", He says "Why? Do you remember how I use to treat you, how nice i USE to be to you"...
Now what are you doing to say? I dont care about what you use to be me, look how you are treating me NOW? Look how you are disrespecting me NOW?
This is how it is with God. It doesnt matter what we use to do, its about what we are doing NOW. When we die and go stand before Him in judgement, God isnt gont to say look at how we started its about how we finish.
Think of it like this.
Say you had a husband and yall been married for like 10 years. When yall first got married, he was soooo sweet. he cooked for you, complimented you,spent time with you etc. He was the best husband ever! Well down the road, he cheats on you, beats on you, spits on you, throws things at you, curses at you. He keeps doing it over and over and wont stop. You asked him to stop, but he wont.And you say "I want a divorce", He says "Why? Do you remember how I use to treat you, how nice i USE to be to you"...
Now what are you doing to say? I dont care about what you use to be me, look how you are treating me NOW? Look how you are disrespecting me NOW?
This is how it is with God. It doesnt matter what we use to do, its about what we are doing NOW. When we die and go stand before Him in judgement, God isnt gont to say look at how we started its about how we finish.
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Galadriel
Well-Known Member
StarScream35
Well-Known Member
blazingthru
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10:26 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
CoilyFields
Well-Known Member
This is truly a hot topic. What do I believe?
Once saved always saved.
Due to the fact that I did not do anything to EARN my salvation (works), then conversely I cannot do anything to UNEARN it (works) Eph 2:8-9.8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast
-Jesus traded his righteousness for my unrighteousness once and for all (for sins past, present, and future) 2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
And Just as Jesus did not need to keep dying for our sins (as the priests in the OT had to continually offer sacrifices), we do not have to keep becoming saved all over again. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God
-If we lost our salvation then God would not have made provision for us (believers) for when we do sin. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If I can lose my salvation then I live in fear that if I sin, I no longer have eternal life. So since most of us sin regularly (in thought and deed) then at any moment we may die and heaven becomes...the luck of the draw? If I fornicated then got hit by a car and died then hell is my home? No! Becuase it is not dependant on my righteous acts. When I accepted Jesus I was adopted into his family forever. Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed unto the day of redemption.
And we know that when we recieve salvation we also receieve the Holy Ghost. The Bible speaks of our sins grieving the holy spirit so dont think we can just sin willy nilly and get away with it.
-As far as getting saved and continuing to live in sin...Paul asked the question, do we sin because grace abounds? Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Meaning should we sin just because we know we are sealed to the day of redemption due to Gods amazing grace? No way! God forbid! Believe me, we will have consequences for the sins we commit...here on earth and in heaven (there are different rewards). And also...being fearful of losing our salvation has not made most of us stop doing the sin...God doesnt tie us to him in fear but draws us in love. He is married to the backslider Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you (Jer 3:14, KJV)
-The Word often talks about not inheriting the kingdom due to different sinful acts...
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)
This is not referring to heaven or eternal life as the kingdom of God, but to the life we live here on earth. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
-Salvation does not equal living right (if that were the case then anyone who lived a "good" life could go to heaven and wouldnt need Jesus). Salvation is being saved from the damnation we are owed due to our sins. Not because we earned it...but simply because God is so gracious that he knew the ONLY way to guarantee our place in heaven was to let us borrow Jesus' righteousness-cause even our rightousness is as filthy rags Isaiah 64:6 and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags. Even our sanctification and holiness (trying to live right) is not good enough to secure salvation.
So I do not believe that one who truly believes in Jesus as savior can then lose that salvation. There is a whole heap of things we are not held accountable for once we are saved...THAT is sanctification, sinning less, perfecting our faith. But lack thereof does not mean we are no longer saved. Now I will say this...if a person continues to live a life dedicated to sin after they have confessed Christ then it is possible that they did not TRULY accept him into their hearts (did not recieve salvation in the first place). But this is something that is only known by the person and God. Becuase only He knows the heart for real for real.
I don't expect everyone to agree with that but it is what I understand the Word to say, what we have been taught in my Church, and what I truly believe based on the scriptures.
Once saved always saved.
Due to the fact that I did not do anything to EARN my salvation (works), then conversely I cannot do anything to UNEARN it (works) Eph 2:8-9.8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast
-Jesus traded his righteousness for my unrighteousness once and for all (for sins past, present, and future) 2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
And Just as Jesus did not need to keep dying for our sins (as the priests in the OT had to continually offer sacrifices), we do not have to keep becoming saved all over again. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God
-If we lost our salvation then God would not have made provision for us (believers) for when we do sin. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If I can lose my salvation then I live in fear that if I sin, I no longer have eternal life. So since most of us sin regularly (in thought and deed) then at any moment we may die and heaven becomes...the luck of the draw? If I fornicated then got hit by a car and died then hell is my home? No! Becuase it is not dependant on my righteous acts. When I accepted Jesus I was adopted into his family forever. Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed unto the day of redemption.
And we know that when we recieve salvation we also receieve the Holy Ghost. The Bible speaks of our sins grieving the holy spirit so dont think we can just sin willy nilly and get away with it.
-As far as getting saved and continuing to live in sin...Paul asked the question, do we sin because grace abounds? Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Meaning should we sin just because we know we are sealed to the day of redemption due to Gods amazing grace? No way! God forbid! Believe me, we will have consequences for the sins we commit...here on earth and in heaven (there are different rewards). And also...being fearful of losing our salvation has not made most of us stop doing the sin...God doesnt tie us to him in fear but draws us in love. He is married to the backslider Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you (Jer 3:14, KJV)
-The Word often talks about not inheriting the kingdom due to different sinful acts...
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)
This is not referring to heaven or eternal life as the kingdom of God, but to the life we live here on earth. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
-Salvation does not equal living right (if that were the case then anyone who lived a "good" life could go to heaven and wouldnt need Jesus). Salvation is being saved from the damnation we are owed due to our sins. Not because we earned it...but simply because God is so gracious that he knew the ONLY way to guarantee our place in heaven was to let us borrow Jesus' righteousness-cause even our rightousness is as filthy rags Isaiah 64:6 and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags. Even our sanctification and holiness (trying to live right) is not good enough to secure salvation.
So I do not believe that one who truly believes in Jesus as savior can then lose that salvation. There is a whole heap of things we are not held accountable for once we are saved...THAT is sanctification, sinning less, perfecting our faith. But lack thereof does not mean we are no longer saved. Now I will say this...if a person continues to live a life dedicated to sin after they have confessed Christ then it is possible that they did not TRULY accept him into their hearts (did not recieve salvation in the first place). But this is something that is only known by the person and God. Becuase only He knows the heart for real for real.
I don't expect everyone to agree with that but it is what I understand the Word to say, what we have been taught in my Church, and what I truly believe based on the scriptures.
loolalooh
Well-Known Member
These Scriptures are interesting. I guess it really comes down to interpretation.
What I get from Eph 2:8-9.8: Salvation is a gift from God.
What I get from 2 Cor 5:21: Jesus took up our sins so that we may be made right with God. Salvation is a gift from God.
I agree: A gift is not earned (by works). Salvation is given to us.
Here is where I veer off: We have the option (via free will) to reject or return the gift of salvation. A Christian who converts to atheism has "returned" his/her gift of salvation. (Some may argue whether the Christian was really saved to begin with.)
EDITED: Had to meditate on Hebrews 10.
What I get from Eph 2:8-9.8: Salvation is a gift from God.
What I get from 2 Cor 5:21: Jesus took up our sins so that we may be made right with God. Salvation is a gift from God.
I agree: A gift is not earned (by works). Salvation is given to us.
Here is where I veer off: We have the option (via free will) to reject or return the gift of salvation. A Christian who converts to atheism has "returned" his/her gift of salvation. (Some may argue whether the Christian was really saved to begin with.)
EDITED: Had to meditate on Hebrews 10.
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Rainbow Dash
Well-Known Member
Yes, you can lose your salvation but it is your choice to do it. Sin will separate us from God. If we choose falsehood over truth, then yes.
In society and even on this forum, we have Christians that are soo worried about how they are perceived that they won't stand up and tell people the truth.
I believe that doctrines like this are birthed out of compromise. We don't want to offend anyone with the Truth or the whole counsel of God that we come up with this "oh it's okay" doctrine.
Well I'm sorry I'm not that kind. If I am walking in error, I would want Christians to tell me the truth. If my soul is in danger, then Christians stop being scared to tell folks the truth.
Jesus told the truth and look at what they did to Him.
Paul and the other disciples told the truth and look at what happened to them.
When will we stop being so worried about us and worry about the souls of others?
He that endures to the end will be saved, Paul had to make his flesh a slave so that he would not be disqualified.
As long as we walk with Christ in accordance to the what is true concerning Him and the Word, then we are saved.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Tim 4:1
Now these people were once apart of the faith, they were once saved had departed and gave into deception.
So run from that once saved always saved. We have to continue to examine ourselves, sin is deceitful.
In society and even on this forum, we have Christians that are soo worried about how they are perceived that they won't stand up and tell people the truth.
I believe that doctrines like this are birthed out of compromise. We don't want to offend anyone with the Truth or the whole counsel of God that we come up with this "oh it's okay" doctrine.
Well I'm sorry I'm not that kind. If I am walking in error, I would want Christians to tell me the truth. If my soul is in danger, then Christians stop being scared to tell folks the truth.
Jesus told the truth and look at what they did to Him.
Paul and the other disciples told the truth and look at what happened to them.
When will we stop being so worried about us and worry about the souls of others?
He that endures to the end will be saved, Paul had to make his flesh a slave so that he would not be disqualified.
As long as we walk with Christ in accordance to the what is true concerning Him and the Word, then we are saved.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1 Tim 4:1
Now these people were once apart of the faith, they were once saved had departed and gave into deception.
So run from that once saved always saved. We have to continue to examine ourselves, sin is deceitful.
loolalooh
Well-Known Member
This is a continuation of what blazingthru posted. We cannot continue crucifying Christ once we have become saved:
HEBREWS 10
6Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible sins. There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to enemies For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how or three witnesses. Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.
HEBREWS 10
6Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible sins. There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to enemies For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how or three witnesses. Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us.
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Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
CoilyFields - The problem with the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is that no one is truly saved yet. Check out these verses in the bible:
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Philippians 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Obtaining salvation is all about faith. It has nothing to do with works. As long as you do not sin wilfully then you shall be saved in the end. If you do sin wilfully, then you lose your salvation because you are not relying on Christ who died on the cross for the punishment of our sins. We cannot take credit for our salvation. Our righteousness is but filthy rags.
Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Philippians 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Obtaining salvation is all about faith. It has nothing to do with works. As long as you do not sin wilfully then you shall be saved in the end. If you do sin wilfully, then you lose your salvation because you are not relying on Christ who died on the cross for the punishment of our sins. We cannot take credit for our salvation. Our righteousness is but filthy rags.
alive
New Member
great thread, Brighteyes35. I think everyone has made really good points.
I don't know the answer and honestly, I don't think the answer makes a difference either way. I just want to hold on to my faith, live a life that God can be proud of, and make it to heaven. The answer to this question doesn't change any of that for me.
I don't know the answer and honestly, I don't think the answer makes a difference either way. I just want to hold on to my faith, live a life that God can be proud of, and make it to heaven. The answer to this question doesn't change any of that for me.
StarScream35
Well-Known Member
Yall are some strong ladies and you have backed your points up. I guess it boils down to this. Whether of not you can lose your salvation shouldn't matter. What should matter is your love for Christ and the need to wanna please him at all cost and be totally be disgusted by worldly things. You might slip up here and there, but your love for Christ will make you drop to your knees and ask for forgiveness.
makeupgirl
Well-Known Member
Question: "Once saved always saved?"
Answer: Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. Numerous passages of Scripture declare this fact. (a) Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.
(b) Paul asks two crucial questions in Romans 8:33-34 "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God's elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.
(c) Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away. (d) The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9) and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ.
(e) John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error. (f) For the most conclusive argument, I think Scripture says it best itself, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!
Answer: Once a person is saved are they always saved? When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. Numerous passages of Scripture declare this fact. (a) Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed - he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.
(b) Paul asks two crucial questions in Romans 8:33-34 "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died more than that, who was raised to life - is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God's elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.
(c) Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away. (d) The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9) and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ.
(e) John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error. (f) For the most conclusive argument, I think Scripture says it best itself, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!
makeupgirl
Well-Known Member
Question: "Can a Christian lose salvation?"
Answer: Before this question is answered, the term “Christian” must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer, or walked down an aisle, or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what “makes” a Christian. A Christian is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? Perhaps the best way to answer this crucially important question is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation, and to study what losing salvation would therefore entail. Here are a few examples:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). This verse speaks of a person becoming an entirely new creature as a result of being “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be canceled and reversed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18-19). The word “redeemed” refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase that He paid for with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To “justify” means to “declare righteous.” All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is a promise of eternity (forever) in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever, how then can God break this promise by taking away eternal life?
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). As we learned in Romans 5:1, justification is declared at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification is guaranteed for all those whom God justifies. Glorification refers to a Christian receiving a perfect resurrection body in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
Many more illustrations of what occurs at salvation could be shared. Even these few make it abundantly clear that a Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Jesus Christ as Savior would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation cannot be reversed. A Christian cannot be un-newly created. Redemption cannot be undone. Eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal. If a Christian can lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and change His mind—two things that Scripture tells us God never does.
The most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation are 1) What about those who are Christians and continually live an immoral lifestyle? 2) What about those who are Christians but later reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these two objections is the phrase “who are Christians.” The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6). The Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19). Therefore, neither objection is valid. Christians do not continually live immoral lifestyles, nor do they reject the faith and deny Christ. Such actions are proof that they were never redeemed.
No, a Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us. Jude 24-25, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
Answer: Before this question is answered, the term “Christian” must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer, or walked down an aisle, or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what “makes” a Christian. A Christian is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9).
So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? Perhaps the best way to answer this crucially important question is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation, and to study what losing salvation would therefore entail. Here are a few examples:
A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). This verse speaks of a person becoming an entirely new creature as a result of being “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be canceled and reversed.
A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18-19). The word “redeemed” refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase that He paid for with the precious blood of Christ.
A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To “justify” means to “declare righteous.” All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared.
A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is a promise of eternity (forever) in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever, how then can God break this promise by taking away eternal life?
A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). As we learned in Romans 5:1, justification is declared at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification is guaranteed for all those whom God justifies. Glorification refers to a Christian receiving a perfect resurrection body in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.
Many more illustrations of what occurs at salvation could be shared. Even these few make it abundantly clear that a Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Jesus Christ as Savior would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation cannot be reversed. A Christian cannot be un-newly created. Redemption cannot be undone. Eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal. If a Christian can lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and change His mind—two things that Scripture tells us God never does.
The most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation are 1) What about those who are Christians and continually live an immoral lifestyle? 2) What about those who are Christians but later reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these two objections is the phrase “who are Christians.” The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6). The Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19). Therefore, neither objection is valid. Christians do not continually live immoral lifestyles, nor do they reject the faith and deny Christ. Such actions are proof that they were never redeemed.
No, a Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us. Jude 24-25, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”
CoilyFields
Well-Known Member
Poohbear
This is definately where we differ (the bolded). Salvation is instant...upon belief and confession. And we sin willfully contantly, in thought and deed. That is why we have to rely on Christs' righteousness rather than our own to gurantee our eternal life.
May I ask? Is your understanding something that is taught at your church? I ask only because this is a subject that we never really discussed at my church growing up and I only learned it when I came to my present church.
LucieLoo12
Well-Known Member
@health&Hair28 this post was edifying 
The devil and his followers was kicked out of heaven for their rebellion and sin, so we believe we can just live any type of way and make it in??
Peter 4:17-18
17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
God isnt just letting any and everybody in, we got to be holy and righteous to make it in
The devil and his followers was kicked out of heaven for their rebellion and sin, so we believe we can just live any type of way and make it in??
Peter 4:17-18
17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
God isnt just letting any and everybody in, we got to be holy and righteous to make it in
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Poohbear
Fearfully Wonderfully Made
CoilyFields
My definition of sinning wilfully is different than yours... will have a response later in regards to this....
By the way, I do not go to "church" and do not feel that you need to go to a "church" in order to be saved or be right with God. I haven't consistently been to a church since July 2010.
Before I stopped going to "church", I was always taught "once saved, always saved", which I no longer believe in its concepts anymore. I went to a Baptist church.
My definition of sinning wilfully is different than yours... will have a response later in regards to this....
By the way, I do not go to "church" and do not feel that you need to go to a "church" in order to be saved or be right with God. I haven't consistently been to a church since July 2010.
Before I stopped going to "church", I was always taught "once saved, always saved", which I no longer believe in its concepts anymore. I went to a Baptist church.
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