Setback Thread
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faithVA
May I ask what conditioners you use and whether you add anything to them, such as oils, honey, etc.?
The reason I ask is because we seem to have something in common - we both began our HHJs trying to maintain balance, which resulted in our hair becoming extremely proteinated. In the past, I was always a sneeze away from protein overload (even moisturizing conditioners that contained protein and light protein treatments would send my hair reeling). Through trial and error, I discovered a few things that have helped to turn things around for me:
- Amp up the emolliency and efficacy my DCs with certain oils, namely babassu, castor, almond, sesame, JBCO and rosemary
- Avoid all moisturizing DCs that contained protein (even the purported moisturizing kind like wheat and oat)
- Determine which proteins are friends and which are foe (e.g., collagen = friend; soy = foe)
- Steer clear of hidden proteins and additives that behaved like proteins on my hair (e.g., aloe vera, soy, milk, algae, wheat germ, silk amino acids, EVCO and semi-permanent rinses)
- Heavy sealing with a sealant that contained a large castor oil base and at least one ceramide oil
- Keep away from cheapie conditioners (they are instant hair hardeners that always contain some form of protein and/or silicone)
- Detangle prior to shampooing and DCing
- Frequent overnight DCing with an amped up DC
Enduring protein overload is an arduous ordeal, but it will afford you with the knowledge and expertise to easily slay its butt should it ever rear its ugly head in the future. Hold on to that thought during your times of protein despair. I wish you the best!
faithVA
Well-Known Member
@[URL="http://www.longhaircareforum.com/member.php?u=186070" said:
Thanks PJaye,
Currently I am using AO Blue Chamomile as my DC. I am cowashing with Tresemme Naturals. I probably couldn't provide you a list of what I have used in the past. I thought it was the hair color so I stopped that. But I'm graying so I was using henna. I've since left the henna and gone back to the permanent color. If I'm going to have short hair at least its not going to be gray and short.
I am also low porosity. So I don't add oils to my DCs because they tend to keep my cuticles from closing and my hair is just frizzy, frizzy, frizzy. I can add oils after my hair is 50% dry. I have not tried honey yet but it is on my list of things to try.
I have not found many conditioners that do not contain protein, aloe or coconut oil. If you have a list that would be nice. I also need a fairly thin DC instead of thick.
So I am staying away from henna, coconut oil as much protein as possible.
I am working on the sealing. I haven't figured out how to use oils or butters without making my hair just greasy. But I am working on this.
How long did it take before you started to notice a difference?
DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
subscribing!!! Much needed thread! Thank you for starting this!
Just chopped off about 1.5" last week and I was just JUST touching my SL goal for the year.
I will take off another .5 next month but just want to break even on length--I need to have something to grip to twist.
I think it was many things that contributed to this most before my HHJ only a few after:
Peroxide semi-permanent dye jobs between last Dec and Jan (pre-HHJ) & never chopping that mess off, just deep trimmed
WNGs made SSKs and splits galore. Apparently my hair hates this method/style.
An edge/slicking pomade chewed me up even more (I was trying to fake bun. was so sick and tired of the twist outs)
There's more, but you get the idea.
The good news is, LHCF has taught me much. I consider this part of the journey--I had ZERO good hair practices before February 2012. The ng is gorg so I'm still encouraged.
So back to NL, but feeling more positive about it than ever before.
Just chopped off about 1.5" last week and I was just JUST touching my SL goal for the year.
I will take off another .5 next month but just want to break even on length--I need to have something to grip to twist.I think it was many things that contributed to this most before my HHJ only a few after:
Peroxide semi-permanent dye jobs between last Dec and Jan (pre-HHJ) & never chopping that mess off, just deep trimmed
WNGs made SSKs and splits galore. Apparently my hair hates this method/style.
An edge/slicking pomade chewed me up even more (I was trying to fake bun. was so sick and tired of the twist outs)
There's more, but you get the idea.
The good news is, LHCF has taught me much. I consider this part of the journey--I had ZERO good hair practices before February 2012. The ng is gorg so I'm still encouraged.
So back to NL, but feeling more positive about it than ever before.
DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
No bleach. It was a peroxide based dye I think. I was only trying to cover grays. Well, now I know better.
Oh, I also found that my couch was breaking my hair too! Leaning against the headrest was causing a dry spot/breakage in that area. Ugh! LHCF has also taught me I have fine hair which requires delicate treatment.
Henna has strengthened me up a lot. As well as the tea challenge and M/S as I've learned here. Since satin caps just slip off my head, I replaced all pillowcases with satin ones and this seems to be working too.
Since kinky all the time seems to make me super SSK prone (all over). I am experimenting with cool flat ironing. Just enough to straighten my ends enough to twist without incident. Just started this two weeks ago. I may come to regret it but the only way to learn if my hair is heat intolerant is to do it. Once a week after wash/DC. I'll take it as another step in my journey if it doesn;t work out. Crossing my fingers!
Oh, I also found that my couch was breaking my hair too! Leaning against the headrest was causing a dry spot/breakage in that area. Ugh! LHCF has also taught me I have fine hair which requires delicate treatment.
Henna has strengthened me up a lot. As well as the tea challenge and M/S as I've learned here. Since satin caps just slip off my head, I replaced all pillowcases with satin ones and this seems to be working too.
Since kinky all the time seems to make me super SSK prone (all over). I am experimenting with cool flat ironing. Just enough to straighten my ends enough to twist without incident. Just started this two weeks ago. I may come to regret it but the only way to learn if my hair is heat intolerant is to do it. Once a week after wash/DC. I'll take it as another step in my journey if it doesn;t work out. Crossing my fingers!
cocomama
Well-Known Member
Raises Hand... Recently I had to cut off 3 inches due to spilt ends from buning on wet hair. My hair was air drying with knots in it. So no more buning on wet hair for me plus I'm spritzing my hair every other night and sealing with grape seed oil. So far I'm on the grow...
DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
@faithVA, I know you're working on your porosity issues. I have no idea which I am or if normal. Anyway have you tried only sealing at night?
My hair seems to be real greasy when I seal--right now I'm still experimenting on heavy sealants so it can feel REAL greasy. However, doing it before bed affords the sealant time to soak in...or the excess gets rubbed off on the pillow in the night.
I might put on a little oil in the morning for shine if necessary.
faithVA
Well-Known Member
[USER=343979 said:DarkJoy[/USER];16205539]@faithVA, I know you're working on your porosity issues. I have no idea which I am or if normal. Anyway have you tried only sealing at night?
My hair seems to be real greasy when I seal--right now I'm still experimenting on heavy sealants so it can feel REAL greasy. However, doing it before bed affords the sealant time to soak in...or the excess gets rubbed off on the pillow in the night.
I might put on a little oil in the morning for shine if necessary.
Yes I've tried sealing at night. I'm still trying things. Right now it seems like I need to only seal the bottom half of my hair or my roots frizz. But I need to seal my ends at night and in the morning. I think my hair is low porosity but my ends seem highly porous. So if I put anything on them to seal them, within an hour you can't tell that I have sealed them.
Last night I sealed my ends with castor/wheat germ/flax seed oil. This morning I misted with Sta Sof Fro and sealed my ends with a butter blend. The Sta Sof Fro really seems the only thing that keeps my hair from drying out.
Still playing around. I may go back to grease on my ends like someone else was saying.
DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
Bought some last week for my heavy sealing experiment! My hair likes the coco butter but needs more in my dry climate. Mostly, I am trying to keep these ends from breaking this month to retain my half inch that I grow so I can break even when I trim next month.
So yes, heavy sealing faithVA! last week, I bought a sulfur grease that also has castor, sunflower, rosemary and sesame oils with burdock, nettle, comfry, kola nut, horestail, ginseng, wild yam, comfry, aloe, and other natural stuff. Man, it's making my flat twist outs amazing! For the first time since natural I've had 3-day hair over the weekend!
It's not breaking out my face, which is why I stopped grease. For me, grease-free had nothing to do with the petroleum, but my skin hated it.
It's working! No hair breakage or facial acne. Miracle!
Mjon912
Well-Known Member
Dec2012 I had my baby, I was BSL...a month later my dad was diagnosed with stage 3b lung cancer, and then I went back to school when she was 6weeks... Post partum shedding hit me 3months after having her and since I had a lot going on I just threw my hair in a bun or pony and kep moving, then my dad passed away aug 11 while me, my mom and daughter stood at his bed side and watched him take his last breath...all of the stress had my hair falling out in clumps so I cut to SL in oct11 and started taking care of it again in march2012 and I'm almost APL 
Stress was the culprit in my situation I think if it would of just be pp shedding I could of managed it with garlic prepoos but I think deciding to cut and start fresh helped me save what little hair I had left ...also cutting and starting over made me look at my pics from the first time around, I would never trim/dust/cut my hair but still made it to BSL, now that I'm dusting/doing a search and destroy this time around I can see the difference in how nice my ends look. So I basically learned that cutting my hair is necessary for a nice polished look and healthy ends and a small trim every few month will save me from having to do a BC
so I cut to SL in oct11 and started taking care of it again in march2012 and I'm almost APL Stress was the culprit in my situation I think if it would of just be pp shedding I could of managed it with garlic prepoos but I think deciding to cut and start fresh helped me save what little hair I had left ...also cutting and starting over made me look at my pics from the first time around, I would never trim/dust/cut my hair but still made it to BSL, now that I'm dusting/doing a search and destroy this time around I can see the difference in how nice my ends look. So I basically learned that cutting my hair is necessary for a nice polished look and healthy ends and a small trim every few month will save me from having to do a BC
DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
Sorry to hear about your loss. No one would bother with their hair at such times.
I don't think PP shedding is strictly due to hormones, though. Much of it is caused because we stop taking our prenatal vitamins. My hair remained thick (for me) for 2 years (though it still broke off due to relaxers at the time) because I continued to take prenates from the health food store 3x a week.
So vitamins do help! If you are not, taking some, do... and yes, I've learned the hard way--trim trim trim!
I don't think PP shedding is strictly due to hormones, though. Much of it is caused because we stop taking our prenatal vitamins. My hair remained thick (for me) for 2 years (though it still broke off due to relaxers at the time) because I continued to take prenates from the health food store 3x a week.
So vitamins do help! If you are not, taking some, do... and yes, I've learned the hard way--trim trim trim!
Evolving78
Well-Known Member
faithVA
these are the ingredients to AO Blue Cam
INGREDIENTS INCI: Aqua, cetyl alcohol (coconut fatty alcohol), aloe barbadensis (aloe) leaf juice*, alcohol denat., helianthus annuus (sunflower) seed oil, milk protein, glycerin, equisetum hyemale (horsetail) extract, tussilago farfara (coltsfoot) leaf extract, tanacetum annum (Moroccan blue camomile) oil*, brassica campestris (turnip) oil, aleurites fordi (chinawood) oil, citrus grandis (grapefruit) extract, tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), hamamelis virginiana (witch hazel) extract, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), glycine soja (soybean) oil, daucus carota sativa (carrot) root extract, beta-carotene.
*Organic
all of this is not all that great for you right now. the ingredients sound fab, but the coconut, the aloe, the milk protein may not be what you need at this point. i had to let go of my Shescentit leave-in. the ingredients were delish, but caused major dryness. i know you want to stick to natural products, but you may need to go with something more commercial. like everyone was suggesting AO HoneySuckle Rose, but i read the ingredients and i knew it would be no good.
i pretty much use an instant conditioner. Suave Almond and Shea Butter works really well. it is thick, but adding the castile soap thins it out. you should really give that a try. oh and i don't mess with semi perm colors anymore either. either perm or demi.
these are the ingredients to AO Blue Cam
INGREDIENTS INCI: Aqua, cetyl alcohol (coconut fatty alcohol), aloe barbadensis (aloe) leaf juice*, alcohol denat., helianthus annuus (sunflower) seed oil, milk protein, glycerin, equisetum hyemale (horsetail) extract, tussilago farfara (coltsfoot) leaf extract, tanacetum annum (Moroccan blue camomile) oil*, brassica campestris (turnip) oil, aleurites fordi (chinawood) oil, citrus grandis (grapefruit) extract, tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), hamamelis virginiana (witch hazel) extract, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), glycine soja (soybean) oil, daucus carota sativa (carrot) root extract, beta-carotene.
*Organic
all of this is not all that great for you right now. the ingredients sound fab, but the coconut, the aloe, the milk protein may not be what you need at this point. i had to let go of my Shescentit leave-in. the ingredients were delish, but caused major dryness. i know you want to stick to natural products, but you may need to go with something more commercial. like everyone was suggesting AO HoneySuckle Rose, but i read the ingredients and i knew it would be no good.
i pretty much use an instant conditioner. Suave Almond and Shea Butter works really well. it is thick, but adding the castile soap thins it out. you should really give that a try. oh and i don't mess with semi perm colors anymore either. either perm or demi.
faithVA
Well-Known Member
[USER=2496 said:
I am open to suggestions. But honestly I have seen very few conditions that don't have either Aloe, Coconut oil or some type of protein, silicones or wax.
So if anyone has recommendations I'm open. But so far the AO Blue Chamomile and the White Camellia are the only things that seem to moisturize my hair at all.
I tried the Suave they make my hair hard as a break. I had to throw out half the bottle. And the same with VO5. I also did the AO HSR and it just lies on my hair. I can't use anything with Shea in the first 2 ingredients because I'm Low Porosity
It's the low porosity that makes me protein sensitive. So at the same time, I need something with a thinner consistency.
Let me list what I remember I tried
--Started with Hydrathermal conditioners
--Kenra (too heavy)
--Suave Shea Butter
--VO5 (don't remember type)
--Hair Mayo
--AO HSR
--AO White Camellia
--AO Blue Chamomile
--AO GPB
--Carol's Daughter (don't remember the name)
--This is what I remember from last year. But I've been going at it since 2009.
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Evolving78
Well-Known Member
Maybe I should just not DC my hair at all.
maybe? just try cowashing and moisturizing for a week? have you thought about trying WEN? but give that castile soap with your conditioner. try a salt or baking soda mixed with your conditioner.
Vashti
New Member
I had a setback two months ago. I was using all natural products for my hair and while I enjoyed doing that I had a very hard time detangling my hair. Things got so bad with the knots that I finally had to enlist my mom to come over and help me detangle. After 3 hours we got out all of the knots and tangles but I had enough hair on the floor to make myself a wig.
I learned from there that all natural hair care does not work for my hair. I need silicones to help detangle my hair. Seriously.
I learned from there that all natural hair care does not work for my hair. I need silicones to help detangle my hair. Seriously.
faithVA
Well-Known Member
I will try the cowashing with the castille soap and conditioner. I thought WEN had silicones in it. I will double check.
Since I’m scared to even read the box of a permanent hair color
, I was using Kiss Express Semi-Permanent until the formula changed and benzyl alcohol was added as one of the top ingredients. So, I ditched it in favor of Adore in the white bottle, and it has been working really well. Another good colorant is Redken Shades EQ Demi-Permanent Color because it’s mild, lasts longer than a semi-permanent and gives amazing shine (I have some extra developer and onyx colorant if you ever want to give it a try). Finding the right DC was murder for me because they all contained ingredients I was trying to avoid or just plain sucked. I’m not very knowledgeable about low porosity hair, but when my hair was refusing moisture, I force fed it by: shampooing often (no co-washing), always rinsing in very warm water, heating my DCs before applying them, adding lots of honey, glycerin and panthenol powder to my DCs and regularly DCing overnight. I also used a lot of babassu oil, which is a very good substitute for EVCO since it is highly emollient, penetrates quickly and rinses clean without leaving a greasy feeling behind. Some of the products I used back then are:
Giovanni 50:50 Conditioner
Giovanni TTT Conditioner
Yes to Carrots Conditioner
Matrix Biolage Conditioning Balm
Oyin Hair Dew
Mozeke Hair Masque
Qhemet Biologics BRBC mixed with OHHB (this combo cured my chronic dryness forever)
Honeyquat (a humectant that will thin the consistency of any conditioner)
It took about a good 6 months of trying one method, waiting to gauge its efficacy, adding another, testing it out, etc. before things turned around. Through it all, I managed to avoid experiencing too much breakage because I totally left my hair alone between weekly washes. I hope that you can turn a corner and get a handle on the breakage and dryness because I know how frustrating it can be.
ETA: wheat germ oil behaves like a protein on my hair, so I would avoid it if I were you.
Evolving78
Well-Known Member
Since I’m scared to even read the box of a permanent hair color
Finding the right DC was murder for me because they all contained ingredients I was trying to avoid or just plain sucked. I’m not very knowledgeable about low porosity hair, but when my hair was refusing moisture, I force fed it by: shampooing often (no co-washing), always rinsing in very warm water, heating my DCs before applying them, adding lots of honey, glycerin and panthenol powder to my DCs and regularly DCing overnight. I also used a lot of babassu oil, which is a very good substitute for EVCO since it is highly emollient, penetrates quickly and rinses clean without leaving a greasy feeling behind. Some of the products I used back then are:
Giovanni 50:50 Conditioner
Giovanni TTT Conditioner
Yes to Carrots Conditioner
Matrix Biolage Conditioning Balm
Oyin Hair Dew
Mozeke Hair Masque
Qhemet Biologics BRBC mixed with OHHB (this combo cured my chronic dryness forever)
Honeyquat (a humectant that will thin the consistency of any conditioner)
It took about a good 6 months of trying one method, waiting to gauge its efficacy, adding another, testing it out, etc. before things turned around. Through it all, I managed to avoid experiencing too much breakage because I totally left my hair alone between weekly washes. I hope that you can turn a corner and get a handle on the breakage and dryness because I know how frustrating it can be.
ETA: wheat germ oil behaves like a protein on my hair, so I would avoid it if I were you.
yes that cowashing wasn't working for me either. i had to use shampoo. cowashing still seemed to coat the hair and lay the cuticle down. that wasn't what i was going for.
Jobwright
Well-Known Member
I had a terrible set back last month. Took micro braids out, then my knots were literally ripped out of my head by a Dominican stylist. Ouch! I have some spots that are 2 inches long, some that are 12 inches long. After I babies my hair, cw 2-3 times per week, I feel better and my scalp healed enough to do a relaxer last week. I am wearing cornrows under a half wig now and using mn daily, deep conditioner weekly and did Aphogee 2 step after relaxer. I will keep my hair M&S daily until I feel I have enough length to bun again. I guess that will be by December, maybe... Living in expectation not judgement. I am documenting my "start over photos" here.
Sent from my iPhone using LHCF
Sent from my iPhone using LHCF
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MsEveMarie
Well-Known Member
I had set backs since the beginning of my journey lol so that would be from 2007- the end of 2011...I finally got it together ONCE I stopped hopping on every darn bandwagon on this board (biggest mistake ever was BKT smh) . Learned to listen to my hair and READ ingredients CAREFULLY.
Turns out I'm HIGHLY sensitive to ALL proteins, and contrary to the popular technique everyone loves and benefits from so much...I cannot seal my hair with any oil or I'll just see hair all through my hands.
Also had to start washing in twists bc of SSK (thought I had bad breakage and tried every product under the sun, until I found out the problem)
Turns out I'm HIGHLY sensitive to ALL proteins, and contrary to the popular technique everyone loves and benefits from so much...I cannot seal my hair with any oil or I'll just see hair all through my hands.
Also had to start washing in twists bc of SSK (thought I had bad breakage and tried every product under the sun, until I found out the problem)
tenderheaded
Well-Known Member
I have allergies, and it took me a while to realize that products could trigger reactions. Ion Clarifying 'poo gave me an itchy and sensitive scalp. While using Indian herbs, my hair started coming out in clumps. Hair One Olive Oil, after 15 months usage, caused dredding while trying to relax! That scared to devil out of me. That was Oct. 2010. So far nothing else has created the havoc I endured for the past 3.5 years.
IDareT'sHair
PJ Rehabilitation Center
Keen
Girl....This sounds like me.
.....*glad i'm not the only one*
This thread has been eye-opening.
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